Hillary didn't diss Gore or Kerry

[mtnsnake]

All she was saying was how she was concerned that if great people like our recent candidates can be perceived as elitist, then that doesn't bode well for us. She didn't put an iota of blame on Kerry or Gore. She was referring to how Republicans always PAINT Democrats as being elitist and we have to be careful not to come off as being that way because of how sensitive the rural people are about that.

It was all about how concerned she is about perception. Nothing much more than that.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. She said Gore lost and Obama said Gore won in 2000

I think we know who the TRUE Democrat is here.

[ruggerson]

11. Would you like to provide a quote for that

my memory is that she said something like we had two wonderful guys who ran in 00 and 08 and the republicans were able to convince big chunks of the electorate that they did not represent our values.

[dchill]

43. Gore and Kerry...

were not Obama. And it's 00 and 04. 08 is Obama's year.

[GoldieAZ49]

14. Gore won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote

so he both won and lost

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Bullshit!!

He got robbed in Florida. Gore won both.

[dchill]

45. Don't try that math shit with me!

He lost, I tell ya, he LOST! Terry McAuliffe said he LOST!

[madrchsod]

42. bush was installed by the supreme court

did you miss the election in 2000?

[GoldieAZ49]

48. did you miss the NYT recount they said Bush won

after Florida stopped counting

[crispini]

65. Um, no. NORC survey -- Gore would have won.

Review Method

Winner
Margin of Victory

Standard as set by each county Canvassing
Board during their survey

Gore
171 votes

Fully punched chads and limited marks on
optical ballots

Gore
115 votes

Any dimples or optical mark

Gore
107 votes

One corner of chad detached or optical mark

Gore
60 votes

http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf

[madrchsod]

66. they did? interesting it seems

that either candidate could have won but it was florida where the republican machine controlled everything when it came to voting..road blocks and other assorted disruptions in the voting process.

obama gave us a warning -make sure everyone has to ability to vote.

[bobthedrummer]

56. There it is! eom

[krkaufman]

68. The basic fact is that Florida's electoral votes were fraudulent ...

... since all the votes weren't counted, what with the SCOTUS stopping to vote count on Saturday night because the results found might "harm" George Bush, who'd taken his vote suppression case to the court. And on Tuesday evening, the court ruled that all the votes *should* be counted to insure equal treatment. Oh, except that the court also ruled that Florida's deadline was fixed, for midnight, so there was no more time to count any votes and... na na na na NA na... George Bush wins.

A later review of the Florida ballots by a media consortium showed that Gore would have won under nearly all recount conditions. Thus Gore *should* have won Florida, its electoral votes, the Electoral Vote plurality... and the election.

Saying Bush won the Electoral Vote leaves out a bit too much of the critical history.


(And the popular vote is meaningless.)

[rug]

15. If Gore won, he's been giving some lousy State of the Union messages lately.

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. Oh Bullshit

Who moved into the White House in January 2009, Bush or Gore? Who gave a speech asking Americans to support their new President, Bush or Gore?

Look I agree with you and Obama that the Supreme Court gave the Presidency to Bush and technically Gore won the vote and morally Gore won the election, but Democrats lost the Presidency.

It was clever of Obama, and good of Obama, to point out that he thought Gore actually won the election. Kudos to him for being quick on his feet and making that point, but the whole fucking world recognizes George W. Bush as President of the United States and has since January 2007, and Democrats of every stripe have long ruminated over how Gore managaed to lose an election he should have won. Sometimes when we are being really politically correct, we phrase it "how did he allow Bush to get close enough to steal it?", but we still talk about why Bush "won" and Gore "lost".

This is not an acid test of Democratic bonafides.

[Diane R]

2. As far as you know.

[YDogg]

4. ding! ding! ding!

[IndianaGreen]

3. You spin faster than a neutron star

What will you do when Obama is 44?

[AX10]

5. mtnsnake, this is a desperate attempt by the left wing activists...

to deflect attention to what Obama said.

Hillary was pointed out how the right wing paints the Dems as being "out of touch" and that Obama did no
favors by giving the GOP ammo against himself.

[AllentownJake]

9. Ha ha ha

Suddenly the bitter threads are disapearing on you all aren't they?

[merh]

20. There is hillary and talking about ammo again

she never realizes how she has given the RNC more ammo against a fellow dem and herself than anyone could. But hey, when this is over she can get a job at a movie theater as the projectionist. (Not a sexist statement as she is definitely qualified and sex has nothing to do with the qualifications required.)

[cottonseed]

31. Gotta watch out for those left wing activists.

:eyes:

Before you know it, they'll have their own Web sites. They might even call it Democratic Underground.

[madrchsod]

47. i read where they are angry....

i don`t know about how you feel but i`m really frightened...

[madrchsod]

46. left wing activists...?

wow i guess there`s no room under the big tent for a left wing activist...i guess i`ll just have to sit out in the rain

[mtnsnake]

54. True, there are some people who will always find ways to turn the tables

I guess it's all part of the game.

Keep the faith, though. Hillary is holding her own and then some.

[bobthedrummer]

59. No, it's standard RW DLC bullshit from the grand dame of the DLC herself.

"Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

She is a known liar, just like her husband-and, fwiw, DU is full of "left wing activists" that were tortured inside the big tent by the DLC's neocon moles for long enough.

Go fly a kite, AX10...

[NJmaverick]

6. She is sooo concerned that she is doing the exact same thing

PLEASE! don't insult our intelligence.

[patrice]

23. Precisely! Ain't it kind of Elitist to assume that the poor benighted voters are too dumb to be

able to recognize when someone is looking down on them?

[Yael]

7. Two down

Will the third be that Taylor Marsh has the inside scoop that Obama is dropping out tomorrow?

[journalist3072]

8. Come on now...you know the Obama supporters have no respect for the truth or for reason

They will lie time and again so long as to make a political point for their candidate.

How dare you inject rationale into this debate! Shame on you! :)

[Yael]

13. So, when we nominate him, are you going to leave

or just hang out in the lounge for the next 4 years?

[mtnsnake]

18. the lounge?

I rarely go there, not that I have anything against it because I don't. I think it's a nice place. Usually when I go to the Lounge it's to post hiking pictures.

on edit: I thought you were posting to me, Yael. oops.

[Yael]

39. Heya mtnsnake

This place is addicting as all get out, but there are still limited hours in the day.

I hear ya -- I think I have been in the lounge like twice. :D

[mtnsnake]

50. same here

24 hours just isn't enough sometimes. lol

and addicting it is. That is for certain. Only thing that saves me is when summer comes. When summer arrives I don't get much of a chance to post, mostly because I move to a little camp my wife and I own and we don't have a computer there, at least not yet. B-)

[Yael]

55. The people here (whether I agree with them or not)

provide me SO much entertainment, I can't even quantify it. :D

One thing is a given -- I will be in stitches every time I log in.

Have a great week! Hope you get a summer cabin connection soon.

:hi:

[mtnsnake]

57. Aint that the truth

The people here (whether I agree with them or not) provide me SO much entertainment, I can't even quantify it.

You nailed it. I am grateful for that in the same way you are.

You have a fantastic week, too, Yael.

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. Ahem...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4802933&mesg_id=4802988

[Yael]

40. Asked and answered

[Forkboy]

60. No, she's on record as saying she'll vote for McCain to keep Obama out of the WH.

"I'll vote for McCain just to do anything I can to try to keep Obama out of the WH."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4563773#4563916

[Yael]

62. So, is this an auto-cookie or do we have to wait the week?

I wasn't here in 2004.

[JI7]

10. Hillary likes to bash other Democrats using right wing attacks

[Auntie Bush]

30. You have that back wards. Obama supporters likes to bash other Democrats

using right wing attacks. They have been doing it for months...but don't like it when someone gives it back to them or when the shoe is on the other foot.
Look at all the whining around here when Obama is being criticized for his own personal goof up. They take their anger out as Hillary bashing as usual.

[beachmom]

35. Oh, please. The Clintons have made a CAREER out of bashing Dems using RW talking points.

There is a name for it: triangulation.

And Hillary did exactly that against Kerry during the botched joke, joining in with McCain and Bush. At that time, we didn't even know Obama was going to run for president. So let's be clear this has NOTHING to do with Obama or Obama supporters. Hillary has a record of doing this -- she betrays her fellow Democrats "without batting an eye".

[babylonsister]

12. If she's so concerned about the Dems she did indeed diss, why

is she smearing another Dem, Obama, with the handle 'elitist'? Can't have it both ways, pal.

[mtnsnake]

27. I dont think she smeared him with the elitist thing. Yes she is using it to her advantage with Obama

but not smearing him. In fact, she tempered her remarks about it by saying what a good man Obama is and what a real talent he is, too. I heard her say those things in some interview they showed this weekend, I think this morning. She went on to express her concern that no Democrats can be making that kind of a mistake as it can cost the Dem nominee dearly in a general election.

[babylonsister]

70. Her 'concern' is noted; she needs to look in the mirror

if she's so 'concerned'.

[BlueIdaho]

16. One question

When Hillary endorses Obama for president and asks her supporters to work for his election in November

What are you going to do?

Are you a Democrat like Hillary Clinton or are you something else?

[mtnsnake]

21. your answer

I'll be doing what I always do. I'll be working for the Dem candidate and pulling the lever straight down Dem party lines.

I care too much about the environment to EVER do anything but. :)

[BlueIdaho]

26. Same here for this Obama supporter

Should it happen Hillary is on the Ballot in November - I'll vote for her, work for her, donate to her.

Nice to chat with a real Democrat.

[mtnsnake]

29. Likewise, my friend

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. You see, when Obama says something, the posters on DU re-define what he said

giving him the benefit of the doubt, and changing any meaning that may be damaging to him

When Clinton says something, the posters on DU re-define what she says, twisting, distorting, so they can say, "see we told you so, she is EVIL."

The rules:
1. take everything Clinton says out of context, give it the most vile meaning hate her for it.
2. take everything Obama says and shout in praise. forgive any mistakes or "misspeaks" he makes. Cover his lies by diverting attention (see #1): "yeah, well Clinton is EVIL."

[GoldieAZ49]

19. Obama needs a translator?

to dumb it down for those of us that are not 'elitist'

:rofl:

[AX10]

25. It's the Obama way.

[Auntie Bush]

33. You nailed that on the head.

You get a gold star for understanding truth when you see it. My feelings exactly.

[bobthedrummer]

61. You and your amateur psy-ops EE-what a hoot! "The Obama infection and the lynching of Hillary

Clinton" (your classic HRC thread from a week ago EE-the one you are 100% proud of)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5408667

:freak:

[Evergreen Emerald]

63. Did you read it?

"frothing at the mouth to attack Clinton" sounds very much like DU. Reading the thread titles alone will prove that.

[BlooInBloo]

28. Ah. She's a concern troll now. Thanks for clarifying!

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. what? I am not certain I understand what you mean?

I have been here for years as a progressive democrat who is concerned about liberal causes.

Just because I do not support your candidate, and think that he is an empty suit who is dividing the democratic party, does not mean I am a troll.

[FlyingSquirrel]

32. Hey mtnsnake I recommended one of your posts

mark this down on your calendar. I only did it 'cause I'm drunk.

:silly:

[mtnsnake]

41. LOL!

I only did it 'cause I'm drunk

I'll take it anyway I can!

Marking it down :evilgrin:

[jenmito]

34. She was criticizing them in order to try to say OBAMA, like Gore and Kerry, can't win, but SHE (Mrs.

Populist all of a sudden) CAN. As if they wouldn't paint HER as an elitist and much WORSE-like a flip-flopper, a liar, a phony, a dealer with the Saudis, etc.

[mtnsnake]

51. I don't think she said it like that at all, nor do I think she criticized Kerry & Gore

It's all about perception, which she is aware of, and how that perception can damage our chances in any presidential election.

It it's true that rural America thinks Democrats/Liberals looks down on them, then we need to work on fixing that perception. Rural America has too much of an advantage with the way the electoral college system works. We have to make sure not to alienate them by making mistakes with wording.

[Auntie Bush]

36. sorry, I forgot to K&R. Just got #5.

[mtnsnake]

58. hey Auntie

:hi:

[wisteria]

37. The very ideals of the Democrat Party counter the idea of any of our candidates being elitist.

We are the party of the people. For her to even repeat Republican framing of our candidates is wrong. They she takes it all one step further and continues to insinuate that Senator Obama's remarks and he self appear elitist.

[mtnsnake]

44. Sorry, but it really is true that many rural Americans think of us that way

They think Liberals look down on them. Bittergate aside, it's a perception that we really do need to work on. There's a good book by Brian Mann, Welcome to the Homeland, that discusses this problem.

[Thatsrightnate]

38. Don't Worry

I don't think you have to worry about Republicans painting Obama as an elitist, we've got Democrats to do that for us.

[tekisui]

49. She perpetuated the perception against Obama. She's using the RW tatics.

[smiley_glad_hands]

52. So she binds herself to republican frames instead of trying to tear them down.?

She is a republican enabler.

[ProSense]

53. It's not the first time she's done it:

Hillary Clinton Joins In (video)

[BigBearJohn]

67. Thanks for taking the time to write & post this. Well done! K/R

[ThePhilosopher04]

69. "It was all about how concerned she is about perception. Nothing much more than that."

I'd rather someone be concerned about people and the truth rather than perception. Of course I'm not surprised Hillary would be concerned about perception since that's what prompted her to give a thumbs up on the Iraq War. Leopards don't change their spots do they?