As an Obama supporter, I'm getting very frustrated by fellow Obama supporters here.

[merwin]

Every time one of you lashes out at Hillary, it puts Hillary supporters on the defensive. And when people get on the defensive, they tend to hold their ground stubbornly rather than listen to reason. Even I find myself wanting to like Hillary more every time one of you starts off on your "Hillary is the devil" rants. You know who you are.

Obama should be a model as to how his supporters should act. If you truly believe in his values and his campaign, then you should follow his lead and not go negative. Point out the positives of Obama, and quit beating a dead horse regarding Hillary.

So what if she lied about Bosnia. Everybody knows it now, so move the hell on to something new. Start talking about what Obama will do as the next President, and don't be fixated on what Hillary is not capable of doing.

And calling her GOP lite, or any other related terms, only degrades your own credibility. It makes you look petty and vindictive. Hillary is 100% better than the current ass-in-chief. Why not point out that Obama is 1000% better than the current ass-in-chief, and start discussing that?

OK, I'm jumping down off of my soapbox. Back to your regularly scheduled flaming.

**Edited to take out negative against Hillary**

[AX10]

1. And you manage to insult her and her supporters in this post.

"I expect this kind of behavior (to a certain degree) from Hillary supporters, as that is the way Hillary herself is acting. However, Obama should be a model as to how his supporters should act. If you truly believe in his values and his campaign, then you should follow his lead and not go negative. Point out the positives of Obama, and quit beating a dead horse regarding Hillary."

There was NO NEED to post this, seeing that you are continuing the attacks on us.

[msongs]

4. Jesus chr...Obama we must trust him blindly get with it ok? nt

[enid602]

30. rinse and repeat

Just repeat the Obama talking points (Hillary evil, NAFTA bad, IWR bad, universal health care bad, etc); it's really much easier that way. A baby can do it.

[merwin]

5. OK, I do agree that I was over the line with that comment.

Editing it out of the post.

[AX10]

6. But you do believe that.

I cannot value what you have said now.

[merwin]

9. That's your choice. You pointed out my mistake, and I apologized and

removed it from the post.

What you choose to take from my post is up to you. I'm not trying to force anything upon anyone.

[JVS]

23. They take offense no matter what, so it's best just to let the crap fly.

[emilyg]

27. And you certainly do.

[JVS]

28. You know you love it

:P

[WillyToad]

42. This thread is an attack

Obama supporters go 100% negative 100% of the time, even if they try not to.

For the life of me I cannot understand what it is about this guy that inspires such vitriol and negativity from his supporters.

Want to clear Obama supporters from a room? Start discussing the issues.

[MercutioATC]

2. We should at least stick to real issues...there are enough of them.

Is she an alcoholic?

Is she trying to damage Obama so she can run in 2012?

Is she going to run as McCain's VP?

NONE of these are worthy of discussion here.

[Armstead]

3. As one of those Obama posters who has been getting obnoxious I say....

that I post out of honest emotional and intellectual response to her amazingly awful behavior.

She deserves all of the slamming she currently is getting. She asked for it with her scoarched earth strategy of the last few days.

By bashing Obama as an "elitist" she is reinforcing the very problem she claims to be wanting to solve.

She knows what he meant with his comments. And I'm 95 percent certain she agrees with him.

But she has chosen to lie about it and do the GOP's groundwork by totally misrepresenting what he said and helping McCain to create the flse impression that Obama is elitist.

That was the last straw for me.

[merwin]

7. She's doing a perfectly good job of bringing herself down.

I think most Americans will see that themselves. They don't need people pointing it out to them in a "I told you so" fashion.

[Two Americas]

35. very disturbing

I am reading this line of rationalization more and more frequently here. People are justifying their abusive behavior by blaming it on the target of their abuse - she had it coming, she brought it on herself, she deserves it, she started it, she asked for it, she made me do it.

This is has some very disturbing implications, and I am surprised by the number of DUers who are giving this a pass.

[Armstead]

38. This is a discussion board...We're not writing campaign speeches here

Remember the old days when people at DU were mostly focused on heaping abuse upon Republicans?

We came here to express our anger and frustration, and to commiserate with others who shared them. We didn;t use the rules of Emily Post to curtail our communications about BushCo.

This is no different. It's a conversation.

[merwin]

43. What's happening here lately is not a conversation, it's flames and attacks.

A conversation implies being civil with one another.

[Two Americas]

45. right

It is a discussion, and I am discussing your use of the rationale that "she had it coming" to justify your abuse of people.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. It's one thing to go negative, e.g. criticizing her for nferring that Kerry and Gore were elitists.

It's something else entirely to call Hillary a drunk.

It's become like a parody. When Hillary tries to highlight her differences with Obama by observing that he went to San Fransisco to condescend to rural blue collar people, it's "OMFG!!1! She totally talked smack about San Francisco!"

How did we lose all our objectivity? "You're either with us or you're against us", used to be a punchline, now it's a way of life.

[MadBadger]

10. I'll be blunt. Over the course of a few weeks, my tolerance for them has gone way downhill

I used to like a bunch of them, but many have gone or joined Obama's sides. Now there are only a few that stop by a lot that I can actually have an honest conversation with, Ruggerson, Tom Rinaldo, DSB, to name the very few. I wont stop my criticsim of Hillary Clinton, because she deserves every bit of it.

[smiley_glad_hands]

11. If the shoe fits, wear it.

What are we suppose to think when she throws the party, the progressive movement and her fellow dems under the bus?

Republican lite is mild compared to what comes to my mind.

[merwin]

14. Let me put it another way.

You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar.

That sums up my argument in one line.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Very good!

I love recommending and kicking these kinds of posts from REAL Obama supporters. :thumbsup:

:kick:

[Blue State Bandit]

13. Rec'd with caveat.

I agree that, at times, Obama supporters seem to be wading into the sewers with their Clinton counterparts. I don't necessarily approve of this tactic, but it must be pointed out that Clinton's attacks on Obama open her up to incoming from the ammo she and her husband have left in their political wake (no pun intended).

I suggest to my fellow Obama supporters, that when the urge arises, take a minute and measure your response. Don't get drawn into flame-wars with the rabid elements of your opposition, because they are not the only people reading those posts.

[merwin]

17. As I should have taken when I wrote the post in the first place.

Including a slam on Hillary in the body of my post came from a different part of my brain than the rest of the post. Thankfully, that was pointed out by someone :)

It takes a lot to take the high road, and not get into a flame-war. Sometimes I'll play devil's advocate, but I try to avoid all-out flaming.

On a side note, whenever I hear the phrase "devil's advocate" I think of The Simpsons:

Homer: Marge, can I play devil's advocate for a moment?
Marge: Sure, Homer. Go ahead.

[Blue State Bandit]

19. I liked the way you handled that.

Kudos!

[BigBearJohn]

15. Kicked and Recommended by a Hillary Supporter.

[ProSense]

16. Here

Watch

Good stuff!


Oh, and "So what if she lied about Bosnia"?

Are you serious?

[merwin]

18. I said "so what" meaning that we all know about it and it's over with.

It was brought out that it was false, reported on endlessly, and everyone knows about it. What does it matter anymore?

[MadBadger]

20. That she still hasnt told the truth yet?

:shrug:

[PetraPooh]

21. What does it matter anymore??????!!!!! Well, let's see, Bush lied about Iraq,

it was brought out that it was false, reported on endlessly, and everyone knows about it. . .

YES, IT STILL MATTERS when people lie, even after the lie is exposed and reported on.

[mrJJ]

26. What does it matter anymore?"

"What does it matter anymore?" 7+ years of Bubble Boy Bush & Darth Cheney lying us into the mess were all in and you ask.. What does it matter anymore?"

These are Clintons OWN words... used against her... What does it matter any more?

Nafta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BrPZYbCdJ4

Hypocrisy exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ZbTM3QvV4

Bosnia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y

Ireland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCmKkLdCuA

October 11, 2007
Flashback: Does Michigan Matter to Clinton?

Hillary Clinton, during which she was asked about the Michigan primary:

"I personally did not think it made any difference, whether or not my name was on the ballot. You know, it's clear, in this election they're having, it is not going to count for anything."

http://www.youtube.com/user/MDRUDGE

HILLARY IS ONE BIG 'MIS'TAKE
Now Hillary denies that she denied she said Obama can't win.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04042008/news/nationalnews/...

DNC rules barring MI & FL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmUVr_Qt2Wg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C08W-jgyLlA&feature=relate

Feb 19, 2008:
Hillary Clinton says "speeches don't put food on the table!"
Bill's speeches sure as hell put food on their table! $51 Million Dollars worth.
Anyone think that Hillary knew she was lying? or perhaps mis-spoke err maybe she forgot about the $51 Million. Ahh surprised



October 10, 2002
Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
on S.J. Res. 45, A Resolution to Authorize the Use of
United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

As Delivered

"Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

"If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise."

"This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction."

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html


Theres a hell of a lot more of her OWN words & video. What does it matter anymore??? If you want another liar n chief in office I guess it really doesnt matter.

[thoughtcrime1984]

32. Lowered expectations

Do not accept that which you have the ability to denounce and reject.

[Cha]

22. As an Obama supporter here I

am pissed at hilary's lying and using the Rove playbook better than Rove.

I also don't like Obama supporters scolding us for what they percieve as slights to those who support this kind of behavior.

[ampad]

34. Thank you

Hillary just threw San Francisco, Gore and Kerry under the bus all in one night. I mean seriously, freaking Al Gore but we are suppose to ignore that? Also using right wing talking points (she was caught with them) to bring down her Dem opponent, but we are suppose to ignore that? Manufactured outrage from Hillary supporters every other week.

OP why don't you ask them why they continue to support a candidate that feels more at home on the dark side. This is a Dem forum so of course people are going to get pissed when they see a dem candidate behaving like a Republican. You can cover your eyes and say well she is a dem all you want but her actions do not prove that. She knew good and damn well what Obama was saying with the bitter comment and her supporters know that as well. For her to go off and behave as if she is a Republican is unacceptable, this country cannot afford another Bush in office, it cannot happen. Yea I call her Republican light and I don't feel bad for doing so. Anyone who gets offended knows what they can do for me. This isn't about their feelings, I could care less about their feelings. This country is heading for a meltdown economically, we have some crazed man talking about war for 100yrs and a Dem who is running as if she is that crazy man's running mate. We cannot afford this scorched earth politics to feed her ego. Let them get pissed off as far as I am concern they can go the way of Hillary when this is all over because the truth of the matter is reasonable, sensible dems who do support her will come around. They will see that McCain is not the one to vote for. Those that choose to stay pissed off and vote for McCain out of spite were never Dems in the first place. I'm not kissing their ass and I refuse to not call it like I see it.

I'm an pissed off anti-war activist who was brought to politics and the Dem party courtesy of Bush. I watched the rovian tactics being played on Kerry and it broke my heart because I knew that asshole Bush would keep our men and women in Iraq for the duration of his "presidency." I'm watching Hillary behave in the same manner attacking the entire dem party with her "we are out of touch with America" comments. For those that support her after that then good on them. Don't expect me and others to kiss their ass for it because I refuse to.

[Cha]

36. Righteous Rant, ampad..

Thank you!

[Kaylee]

46. I with you on this one.

[Tatiana]

24. Part of the hostilities are a direct response to the campaign Hillary is running.

Because of the fact that Obama has taken the high road and not responded in kind, there has been a growing frustration on the part of some supporters. I think some feel that, in the absence of a more forceful response from Team Obama, they will fill the void.

Some of these posts have validity. The Clinton camp opens themselves up to criticism with kitchen sink strategies that include repeatedly praising McSame over Clinton's Democratic opponent. Can you imagine Kucinich, Edwards, Richardson, Biden, or Dodd doing the same? That flies in the face of who we are as Democrats and what we stand for. People took that personally and I can't say I blame them for it.

As for the Bosnia thing... I am over it. Hillary has been proved a liar on the issue and an opportunist on peace in Ireland, NAFTA, and her inflated and embellished resume. My expectations as far as Hillary is concerned are basement-level low. Nothing she does angers or shocks me anymore. But there are people who had a genuine respect and affection for the woman, and like when a family member or close friend lies or betrays you, so Hillary's betrayal hurts that much more and causes people to sometimes go over the line.

I'll vote for her if necessary. But I pray to G-d I don't have to.

[kwenu]

25. Perhaps you should take a break from DU for a day to relieve the election stress.

We are at war with a candidate that has trashed the rules of party loyalty and can't even keep up with all the lies she's told. I don't believe in attacking democratic candidates or their supporters without justification. Hillary presents more justification than I've ever seen in my entire life.

This isn't stopping until a presumptive nominee emerges (as opposed to the likely nominee which we already have)so hang on for the ride and feel free to take a break when needed.

:kick:

[emilyg]

29. Perhaps you should be at war with McC.

[kwenu]

31. I have lots of ammo to go around and really big guns. But first things, first.

[TLM]

33. Hillary folks see taking the high road...

as an opportunity to stab you in the foot more easily.

I see no problem with firing back at them with their same tactics... smear, distort, and spin their words and Hillary's.... just like they do to Obama.

I'm sick of playing nice while getting mud slung in my face 24/7.

Kerry showed us the mistake of not responding hard and fast to these right wing tactics.

The only thing that has changed is Hillary is now using those right wing tactics along with mccain to attack their shared enemies, the democrats and Obama.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Your concern is noted.

[JoFerret]

39. Obama should be a model?

Hey - you make some sane points. Thanks.

From my perspective though - it seems more and more that the extremists are taking their cues from the campaigns. And they are bad cues. And they are from BOTH campaigns.


(Memo to Obamafolk: He is not a saint and, thanks to Hillary, is sharpening his political wings, honing his teeth, and feathering his claws. (or something).)

[Buzz Clik]

40. Welcome to GD-P.

I have no intention of changing my interaction with the rabid, irrational Hillary supporters on GD-P.

Thanks anyway.

[merwin]

44. That's completely up to you. By the way,

no need to welcome me to GD-P, I've been here for almost 4 years now... even had a stint of moderation :)

[kentuck]

41. "She thinks she's Annie Oakley, sitting in a duck blind, with her six-shooters..."

:-)