SOME Obama supporters are missing (possibly intentionally) the real point. There is a trend here.

[BigBearJohn]

The important issue is not about whether or not small town people are bitter.
It's obvious that small town people might be bitter in today's failing economy.

The real issue here is about a developing pattern of Obama's stereotyping of groups of people.
Such as his recent stereotyping of small town people as clinging "to guns or religion . . .
as a way to explain their frustrations."

How would YOU like it if someone defined you as clinging to your religion as a way to explain your frustrations?
It's an outright insult.

There seems to be a pattern here.

A while back, Obama told a radio host:

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't.
But she is a TYPICAL white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know,
you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes
come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society." (emphasis added)

Again, he stereotyped the "typical" white person. How else can you paint this, other than stereotyping?

Stereotypes are used to deal with the unknown on a macro level. When we fear anything, we don't understand it, lack information on it or we wish to feel superior to it, we identify observable characteristics of a few representatives (e.g of a group) and apply them to the whole. It makes everyone in the group seems less threatening or overwhelming and makes the person using the stereotype feel more comfortable and powerful. It is often racist, but it can be sexist, ageist or applied to people with specific political and religious labels like Liberals, Conservatives, Catholics, Muslims etc.

SOURCE: http://mscyprah.newsvine.com/_news/2007/11/14/1097806-why-do-people-stereotype

Among the faithful, Obama is promoted as the great articulator. So, is this the kind of "mis-speak" or "fumble" we can now learn to expect (and forgive) from the great communicator of the new democratic party? We forgive countless "fumbles" by Obama on the campaign path, yet let Hillary slip just once, and the guillotine is gleefully hauled out by the mob while they scream out the most obnoxious, disgusting, vile, deprecating, scornful slander that can be uttered out of a human being's mouth.

Thinking back to 2004, isn't it amazing how Howard Dean could lose a primary because of an over zealous scream, yet everyone seems to continously overlook the foibles of Barack Obama. Why? Because of his youthful inexperience?

Now before anyone here starts flinging crap at me about Hillary... I agree with you that her Bosnia statements made her look foolish and cast a very dark cloud on her campaign... BUT ... these statements by Obama make him look equally as foolish.

No one here has characterized Obama with 1/10th the hatred or vitriol that Hillary has endured.
Truth be told, I wouldn't want to be in either one of their shoes. Who among us could survive the pressure?

[msongs]

1. Obama's generally ok, its his alleged "supporters" that are questionable nt

[Mezzo]

24. brevity can be so...EXACT sometimes. Perzactly. nt

[JeffR]

2. Sounds like this Obama feller is bad news

Thanks for the head's up.

[Kittycat]

7. I'm one of those Typical White Women, that is bitter - I'm confused - should I run to HRC?

And be ignored for being an educated latte liberal in a state that doesn't count. Or go to Obama, who seems to have it all right on the mark?

[JeffR]

10. Better go with Clinton

I hear this Obama feller's bad news.

[jackson_dem]

15. Obama would say you should vote for him as he looks down on you

At least since you are a "typical white person" you can sit up front at Obama rallies, unlike Asians who have to go to the back of Obama's faux unity bus.

[TLM]

22. Would he call voters insecure cowardly racists, like BIll did?

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," - Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[jackson_dem]

26. Who?

[TLM]

32. Bill Clinton.... Hillary's "co president" back in 91....

And according to this... Hillary herself has done the same...

Why does Hillary think so little of rural voters?

Is it because of her 109 million?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/noteworthy-political-scie_n_96436.html

Harvard University political scientist Theda Skocpol - also an elite, I guess! - provided Talking Points Memo with a following statement, which, in part, reads:

I have been in meetings with the Clintons and their advisors where very clinical things were said in a very-detached tone about unwillingness of working class voters to trust government -- and Bill Clinton -- and about their unfortunate (from a Clinton perspective) proclivity to vote on life-style rather than economic issues. To see Hillary going absolutely over the top to smash Obama for making clearly more humanly sympathetic observations in this vein, is just amazing. Even more so to see her pretending to be a gun-toting non-elite. Give us a break!...

This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! (I won't say the only time, because U.S. political history is full of absurdities of this sort.) In a way, it is funny -- and it may not be long before the jokes start.

[Kittycat]

38. Well, Being the educated person I am, I'll stick with Obama

I don't like being lied to and played with, like HRC prefers to do with her supporters.

[jackson_dem]

58. Yeah because those uneducated working folks are stupid and support Clinton

You know they do that because they are all bitter and cling to quaint things like religion and guns and a desire for fair trade.

Your elitism is evident. No wonder your support Obama.

[TLM]

64. That's not what bill said....

Bill said they support Bush because they are insecure racist cowards.


"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[Alter Ego]

116. There's more of that "Obama's a closet racist" crap.

I'd keep going, but I'm too busy dodging imaginary sniper fire while sitting in my duck blind.

[2rth2pwr]

59. Don't forget racist.

[jackson_dem]

72. Good point. According to Obama racism is "bred into" the experience of "typical white people"

[TLM]

81. Like Bill and Hillary who agree white voters are racist cowards?

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[jackson_dem]

85. Is Bill running? Has Obama denounced Michelle Obama's lack of patriotism and alleged racism?

[TLM]

94. Bill is campaigning for his co-president, and Hillary has yet to denounce and reject his words...

Still waiting on that quote from Michelle Obama... I provided one to prove Bill said what I claim.

[jackson_dem]

102. You never heard Michelle Obama, of pastor "god damn America"'s flock, saying she finally is "proud"

Of the USA?

[dbmk]

109. Lack of patriotism?

Who is the patriot:

The people that say they are proud when something is clearly not right?

Or the ones that say they are proud when it looks like it will be fixed?

[TLM]

74. Like someone who says rural white votes are insecure racist cowards?

When will Hillary fire him from her campaign for his blatant racist attacks on rural voters?

Has she rejected and disavowed his comments yet?

She must agree with Bill, that rural white people are cowardly racists.


"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[2rth2pwr]

99. Here is a ready made McCain commercial that will hurt Obama in the general

There are a lot of Americans who see themselves in this video.

oops, here's the link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s0nzsU1Wg

[2rth2pwr]

3. It's different 'cause it's the truth. White people from small towns are all the same.

[bhikkhu]

9. LOL - that's the funniest thing I've heard this evening!

In the context of the OP. Truly, thanks.

[TLM]

34. So you and the Clintons agree... white voters are insecure cowardly racists....

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Bill Clinton Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[rodeodance]

71. STOP LYING!! how dare you call the clintons Racist.

[TLM]

88. The quotes are right here.....

What's wrong, don;t like hillary's hate crew's tactics of distorting quotes being used on Hillary?

Here's the quote... Clinton said it.

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.


He also said...

"You know, he wants to divide us over race."

"They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them."


So clearly he's saying rural voters are cowards and racists, and he's mocking their values.

Why is he still working for Hillary's campaign?

Why hasn't she rejected and disavowed these comments?

[kikiek]

110. Really reaching here. He never said they cling to their guns or religion. He cut it off where Obama

says he should have. That they are economically insecure. The race comment is really stretching, obviously intentionally, he only said they were trying to divide them over race. He didn't say anyone was falling for it. Obama was copying Clinton, but changed the words too much! Haha he doesn't have an original thought.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Thanks for enlightening me.

[DJ13]

5. Id say the only real pattern is Clinton and her supporters picking his words apart

Looking for anything to try and be THE wedge issue to revive her failed campaign.

[rodeodance]

77. I'd say the only real pattern with Obama and his supporters picking her words apart

[gabeana]

6. BS detector what Obama has said has been fundamentally true

and you know that, even bill said things very similar to this "Never mind: Bill Clinton Flashback "All These Economically Insecure White People...Are Scared To Death" huffingtonpost.com

Hillary's bosnia lie was just that a lie and often repeated, please be honest with your self

[jackson_dem]

20. Oh really? No one went to church or had guns in small towns before the NRA and MM were created?

Bill didn't disparage people. His comments are on a whole different plane. Besides, he isn't running, Wright?

[gabeana]

37. Why do you have to bring Wright into it

:rofl:

you don't want anymore of me I whupped on you good last night

[TLM]

45. You mean the guy the Bill and hillary had to the white house?

[gabeana]

79. these hill supporters are so disingenuous

It's not Bill, Hillary's running, she's running on his record, man these supporters are just too funny
If you ask them a simple question, would Hillary be senator from New York if she was not the spouse of the sitting president of the United States?
They won't answer it but deflect it

[TLM]

84. Like true right wingers....

they attack Obama for things they themselves have done and are doing now....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/noteworthy-political-scie_n_96436.html

Harvard University political scientist Theda Skocpol - also an elite, I guess! - provided Talking Points Memo with a following statement, which, in part, reads:

I have been in meetings with the Clintons and their advisors where very clinical things were said in a very-detached tone about unwillingness of working class voters to trust government -- and Bill Clinton -- and about their unfortunate (from a Clinton perspective) proclivity to vote on life-style rather than economic issues. To see Hillary going absolutely over the top to smash Obama for making clearly more humanly sympathetic observations in this vein, is just amazing. Even more so to see her pretending to be a gun-toting non-elite. Give us a break!...

This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! (I won't say the only time, because U.S. political history is full of absurdities of this sort.) In a way, it is funny -- and it may not be long before the jokes start.

[Beregond2]

8. Give me a break.

Why don't you do something useful and turn that microscope on McCain.

[smiley_glad_hands]

11. No the issue is why does Hilliary support republican frames against the party and

progressive movement?

It is a fact that republicans have been using the politics of division and culture wars to divide the working class into voting against their own economic interests.

She refuses to recognize this, in fact she attacked Obama for stating the obvious and truth.

[jackson_dem]

23. Good point. Why is Obama using rethug frames against Hillary on guns today?

PS people have been going to church and owning guns in small towns before there even was a Republican Party.

[smiley_glad_hands]

35. BS. Show me where he's done that.

PS: WTF are you talking about church, guns?

So you too fail to recognize that culture issues are a smokescreen in order to loot the working class? Maybe you support the politics of division at the expense of working Americans? Maybe you think its ok to attack gays, liberals, minorities, and anyone who doesn't look or talk like you just so you can win an election?

Its obvious to me that clinton and her supporters are oblivious to the nature of the politics that have gotten our Nation into the state that it is in.

[dchill]

87. I had no idea that Annie Oakley was a...

"rethug frames" - damn her eyes!

[dkf]

105. lol...

[TLM]

12. You mean like Clinton calling rural voters insecure cowardly racists?

Why do the clintons stereotype the working class?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html


"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

A couple months later, Joe Klein, writing for the Sunday Times, reported that Clinton made the following remarks:

"You know, he wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. Why is using "the Clintons" okay

But "the Obamas" not?

If Obama had said that for the first time in his life he was proud of america, I would be less supportive of him. I don't hold Michelle's comments against him all that much. Yet, you have no problem using Bill's words against Hillary, while simultaneously discounting any relevant experience she might have gained as first lady.

Either she should be given credit for every good thing that Bill did, or she should be given immunity for the questionable things he might have said.

But to your specific point, Bill was commenting on how his opponent was exploiting the vulnerability of blue collar rural folks. Obama was explaining to his San Fransisco audience why rural folks have such unfortunate sentiments and antisocial habits such as religion and guns.

The context is significantly different. It is the difference between empathizing and condescending. Obama told the cool kids why the "weird kids" got that way - instead of sticking up for them.

[jackson_dem]

13. That is a problem. Who has ever won the presidency after stereotyping most voters?

[TLM]

14. Bill Clinton....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

A couple months later, Joe Klein, writing for the Sunday Times, reported that Clinton made the following remarks:

"You know, he wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"

[GarbagemanLB]

17. Wow, that Bill guy just stereotyped all those white people. That's a campaign killer!

[TLM]

30. Yep clearly he hates working class americans....

Just like Hillary does.


She hates San Fransisco democrats, anybody who drinks coffee or went to college, and she bashed Gore and Kerry as elitists, and her husband openly called rural voters insecure cowardly racists.

[jackson_dem]

27. Good example, Bill Clinton lost white men in 1992

So you are saying Obama is going to lose religious people, gun owners, people against Obama's corporate "free" trade, and people opposed to illegal immigration?

[TLM]

36. So how'd that presidential election turn out for Bill? n/t

[jackson_dem]

39. He won many other groups

Obama has stereotyped practically everyone in America (whites, religious people, gun owners, small town folks, people against illegal immigration, people against the corporate 'free" trade Obama supports, and counting). The religious category alone brings him to something like 90% of the population.

[TLM]

42. And yet obama's doing beter than Hillary.... STILL!

After all your endless bashing, and bullshit... he is still winning.


All your attacks are empty BS, Bill Clinton said the same types of things... Hillary said the same types of things.

That kitchen sink attack is backfiring every time you use it. When you distort what was said, you open yourself up to the same type of distortions.


Why does hillary hate white voters? Why does she think they are stupid and insecure and racist?

[jackson_dem]

47. That is why the msm in the tank for him. In the general, if he wins, that would reverse

He would be toast then.

As to Hillary, let's see what the fallout from smalltowngate is. Most people have not heard about it yet.

[TLM]

51. Yet Rush and the right wingers are pushing listeners to vote Hillary....

every time your slime fails to stick you blame the MSM.... lol!!!

[jackson_dem]

56. Rush isn't the msm. Besides, he has his own economic agenda

He would make more money from bashing the Clintons, a proven formula for him, than taking a chance on a noob--especially one who is likely to lose the general election. Rush does better when a Democrat is in the White House the same way the Democratic blogosphere has thrived with a rethug in the White House.

[TLM]

62. Oh I see so only the non-right wing media is MSM....

So you mean that San Fransisco limousine latte liberal media?

LOL!!! You are now saying Rush is supposting clinton because he wants her to beat mccain, and the rest of the media is liberal and supporting Obama.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[jackson_dem]

78. Do you understand what the "MS" in "MSM" is?

The MSM is right-wing. Why do you think they support Obama?

No, all I said is Rush is is in a unique situation that CNN, MSRNC (Obama's network) and newspapers like the Washington Post are not in. The only analogue to Rush in the MSM is Fox "News".

[TLM]

89. So now the MSM is rght wing....

but you just said right wing media wants Hillary so they can make money attacking her for 8 years...


Which is it?

Is the media liberal and defending obama or right wing and trying to get hillary in the white house to bash her for 8 years?

[jackson_dem]

93. Dems used to believe the MSM is right-wing until the messiah Obama came along

I said Rush could benefit from Clinton winning. Rush is one person and he is not even part of the MSM. MS=mainstream. Rush is hardly mainstream.

[TLM]

95. All the right wing talkers and pundants have been pro-hillary...

Now you flip flop between saying the media is san fransisco liberals protecting obama to saying it is right wingers who want to bash hillary.

So which is it... is the msm right wing or left wing.... pick one.

[jackson_dem]

101. You are making things up

I have always said the MSM is right-wing. That is why I point out, not just here but often, that they support Obama. They know he will lose the general election.

[dchill]

76. Exactly - jackson_dem doesn't want us to realize that...

it worked for Bill, and it will work for Obama, too. Obama told the truth about a segment of society (STEREOTYPE!) that probably wouldn't have voted for him, anyway, and in so doing, recognized their frustrations, and reached out to them in the only way that might possibly get them to consider what he is really saying. This is definitely bothering the Clinton and McCain camps, so they strike back from their own weakness as the real elitists in this campaign.

[Tatiana]

16. Was Bill Clinton stereotyping when he made similar remarks? n/t

[jackson_dem]

28. Yes. Now is he running?

The group he stereotyped voted against him. I know this is the latest Obama campaign talking point but talk about a bad example...

[TLM]

40. Bill is campaigning for his co president Hillary....

Yet somehow you want to attack Obama for saying essentially the same things Clinton said about wedge issue voting and what motivates it.

Next time you haters want to step out on a limb to bash obama, make sure the branch can carry the weight of you bullshit.

[jackson_dem]

50. What wedge issues were there in 1820?

[TLM]

54. Has hillary rejected Bills attack on white voters yet?

Remember she has to reject AND disavow Bills comment, and fire him from her campaign.

Otherwise we can assume she whole heartedly agrees with what he said about white voters being cowardly insecure racists....



" you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Bill Clinton Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[jackson_dem]

60. What wedge issues were there in 1820?

[TLM]

66. Is someone who ran in 1820 running today?

What does 1820 have to do with Bill insulting and mocking white rural voters in 1991, and hillary refusing to remove him from her campaign or to disavow AND reject his comments?

[jackson_dem]

68. People went to church and owned guns in small towns then. Why? There were no 'wedge issues' then

[TLM]

91. What does this have to do with Bill's comments about rural votess being cowardly racists?

You and other Hillary/McCain supporters may have been around in 1820... But I wasn;t so I'll have to take your word on the issues of the day.

But what's that got to do with what Bill said and Hillary has refused to disavow or reject?

[jackson_dem]

96. You said O was right that they do this due to wedge issues

Hint: there were no wedge issues at the time. Google election of 1820 and tell me what the electoral count was. There was no opposition party at the time. Yet people went to church and owned guns--just like they did prior to there even being elections, did in 1860, 1890, 1920, 1950, 1980, and will do so in 2010 even if St. Obama wins. It is part of their culture. Chicago millionaire Ivy League elitists like Obama can't understand this.

Ah, another Obamite playing the age card. More "unity" from the Obama "movement." PS I was born around when Obama was admiring Ronald Reagan.

[EFerrari]

18. Generalizing isn't stereotyping. But, nice try. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Okay, "Generalize" something for me about black people.

... "generalizing" seems sort of selective to me. It would be pretty darn tough to make those kinds of generalizations about anyone but rural, working class whites, without it becoming a pretty obvious stereotype.

[EFerrari]

52. No. You have to generalize to try to talk about a group of people.

Stereotyping is entirely different. It's a narrow minded, biased view that has nothing to do with a real attempt at discussion.

And I notice you, like the Washington Journal callers on Saturday, are making this about race. Do you also think Obama was uppity for trying to describe the problems of small town out of work voters?

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. "Uppity"? You can do better than that.

He wasn't trying to describe their problems, he was trying to rationalize their flaws, and explain to his San Fransisco audience how he can communicate with these uncivilized folks.

And those flaws are both inaccurate and indistinguishable from a stereotype if it were any other demographic.

[EFerrari]

80. I leave you to your sad projections which the people of PA

thankfully don't seem to share.

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. I don't speak for the people of PA.

I speak for me. His stereotypes of me and my neighbors was an insult.

[JoFerret]

119. Uppity schnuppity.

Uppity women
Uppity blacks
Uppity people
Uppity and unite against the GOP

[Raejeanowl]

55. Nice Try Yourself, But Au Contraire

Generalizations aren't always stereotypes, but (cultural) stereotypes are always generalizations. Since Obama wasn't talking about some standard cliche like "it never rains in Southern California," or "homemade spaghetti always tastes better the second day," or "opposites attract," but WAS ATTRIBUTING CHARACTERISTICS TO GROUPS OF PEOPLE unlike himself in each of the instances cited above, I think it's safe to-at minimum-call it stereotyping. Pull up any dictionary and it will agree, but this one was elegant and directly to the point:

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

stereotype


A generalization, usually exaggerated or oversimplified and often offensive, that is used to describe or distinguish a group.


Anthropology, Psychology, and Sociology


The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[EFerrari]

65. LOL! Yes, stereotypes are always generalizations.

But, generalizing isn't necessarily stereotyping.

He was describing a examples of concerns some people in a demographic might turn to.

There are enough caveats in his actual words to rule out stereotyping completely.


God, help me. lol

[Raejeanowl]

97. There's An Echo In Here

Guess I'll have to go back and read between the lines in order to find the built-in defense and disclaimers in what he himself has repudiated as poorly stated.

Toting guns and clinging to religion, etc. sound more like behaviors being used to characterize some types of lifestyles/people, rather than than "examples of concerns" in my book.

I'll revisit the remarks about his "typical white person" grandma and look for the "caveats" there while I'm at it.

Indeed, God help us all.

[uponit7771]

19. Rendell said some wouldn't vote for Obama cause he's black and the media did what?

[Romulox]

21. I am most disturbed by Obama's placing opposition to "free trade" alongside racism and xenophobia

That was disgusting and manipulative.

[jackson_dem]

33. And it sailed right over every Obamite's head. He was dissing THEM!

Yes, the same people who rail against NAFTA and the like. Obama thinks you are naive, bitter and cling to "anti-trade" views for being opposed to corporate free trade. He uses corporate frames ("anti-trade") to make a corporate argument yet Obamites still think he is an anti-corporate crusader.

[anonymous171]

25. Obama is half-white. "The typical white person" statement doesn't really have any significance.

[jackson_dem]

31. Except that he wrote a book in which he said he once hated his white half

Otherwise it wouldn't. He says he changed (the book was written a couple years before Obama entered politics) but his racist granny being white does not buy him immunity on being racist against whites because of words. His words. Don't tell me words don't matter lol.

[TLM]

48. And Bill Clinton said white voters were insecure cowards and racists

Has Hillary rejected AND disavowed Bill's comments?

Or can we assume she also support the claim that white voters are insecure cowardly racists?



"you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Bill Clinton Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

[jackson_dem]

49. And? Michelle Obama reportedly wrote a racist thesis. Does that mean Barack endorses her views?

[TLM]

57. Reportedly? Where are the quotes?

And according to Hillary, unless you reject AND disavow comments and fire that person from your campaign, you agree with and support what they said.


Why do you think Hillary shouldn't be held to the standards she demands of others?

Is she special?

[BigBearJohn]

104. Link: Info on Michelle's thesis

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=42FC5818-3048-5C12-005E33B3C0F4E64B

[Raejeanowl]

70. No, But He Married Her, Didn't He?

If the thesis story is true (I personally have no independent information about it), it would be a lot more difficult to distance his private philosophies and beliefs from the tolerance of that kind of hate-thinking in a chosen life partner and the mother of his children than it has been to dismiss and downplay the influence of the minister I won't name here.

[JasonHill]

29. On Stereotyping

first, wikipedia has it right with what stereotyping is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

A stereotype is a simplified and/or standardized conception or image with specific meaning, often held in common by one group of people about another group. A stereotype can be a conventional and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image, based on the assumption that there are attributes that members of the other group hold in common. Stereotypes may be positive or negative in tone. They are typically generalizations based on minimal or limited knowledge about a group to which the person doing the stereotyping does not belong. Persons may be grouped based on racial group, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or any number of other categories

the "typical white person" comment wasn't a negative value judgment promoting racism toward white people, but a generalized perception. He also has done the same thing in relation to Reverend Wright when he was referring to the beliefs of Black people from his generation. I don't know statistics on the issue, but all i can say is from my personal experience as a white person growing up in a primarily white culture, he is correct in his view.

All humans stereotype, otherwise we wouldn't be able to function because of the informational overload trying to be filtered. That isn't to say that stereotyping is in itself intellectually valid. What it is (or should be) is a non-issue unless what is being stereotyped has the likely potential to lead to bad policy.

This is much ado about nothing

[Barack_America]

43. Clinton is deliberately and strategically throwing respected Democrats under the bus...

She is consciously distorting her record to make her appear more experienced. And has gotten caught and embarrassed.

She is has knowingly hired anti-labor advisers to run her campaign. And has gotten caught and embarrassed.

Can you please tell me why this is preferable to a candidate that makes occasional poor word selection in statements that are otherwise correct?

[Romulox]

61. Like Austan Goolsbee???

:wtf:

[Barack_America]

67. Which lobbying firm is he with again? And which countries is he currently representing...

In addition to the Obama campaign?

I've forgotten.

[Romulox]

73. "Austan Goolsbee is a senior economist for PPI and the Democratic Leadership Council."

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=125&subsecid=162&contentid=254285

[Barack_America]

86. Um, you might want to check on those organizations.

They're not exactly evil "lobbyists".

[Romulox]

100. You're *defending* Obama's pro-globalization stance? 'Cause he's running away from it (this week).

[jackson_dem]

92. You want Obama's economic Rove to tell him to privatize SS?

[jackson_dem]

90. Maybe that is where Obama got his disdain for people who favor fair trade

Isn't Goolsbee a Rubinite? I know he favors the privatization of Social Security...

[TragedyandHope]

44. Look up "wedge issues"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_issue

I'm sorry if you don't get it, but you're missing the point entirely.

[ProSense]

53. I think you and Hillary are missing

the point

[jbnow]

63. It's especially insulting

if you just want to take it that way.

Now that typical white person... and then the definition of stereotype
"Stereotypes are used to deal with the unknown on a macro level and so on"
Seems to me Obama is pretty familiar with white people having grown up most of his youth with only white people, his mom and grandparents and almost all of his friends.
Most of his friends are white now.

And the butter/clinging out of context of the whole of it sounds bad and if he never explained it and if...like Jack Cafferty said he didn't go to college but he read the statement and knows exactly what it means.
Even more the question he was responding to was someone assuming Rendell was right and that racism was why Hillary was favored. Obama was defending them.

Here's the thing...yes they both make mistakes.
When Obama uses words clumsily he can explain himself and people can hear him and decide what they think. Some might stay offended but people who don't already dislike him who hear him can generally detect his sincerity. They've been campaigning hard and clumsy speech does come with fatigue now and then.

But with a series of lies or distortions that are part of campaign speeches, that's not just fatigue. That takes something away from anything the person says later and how can you explain them honestly? Then there's the judgment in the lies...they were stupid lies. The Bosnia series had tapes and witnesses, the SCHIP had everyone who was in Congress then and the aides. NAFTA had her own quotes and people who she lobbied and tapes of that or helping to pass the Family and Medical Leave Act when he was the first bill that Bill signed days after coming into office and Congress knows that or that Michigan had record turnout in the primary when it wasn't close to the record. Well you get the idea...a string of lies that depend on none of the many who know the truth speaking up makes listening to what they say harder.

[kwenu]

69. Hillary has a longer herstory of lies and cover-ups that come from direct statements and actions.

This is a quite a bit different from the overuse of "associational" allegations where Obama has been criticized NOT for what HE has said as much as what people that he knows have said. The lies tag has been well earned by Hillary.

[GoldieAZ49]

83. It is the difference between followers and supporters

followers can see no errors, supporters can

[nichomachus]

98. Sorry -- you did a lot of work on this, but it doesn't hold any water n/t

[Imagevision]

103. Hillary will soon lose because of Bill's 'help' she had it and she blew it and she's

not alone, I don't suspect we'll be seeing very many Bill & Hillary photo's together, without control of the White House the only think sensible for Bill to do is take up a more full time residency in... Dubai?

[LulaMay]

106. The problem for Obama is that mid-west voters aren't missing his point....or insults.

[bowens43]

108. There were no insults, ecxcept in the minds of the most ardent Hillary crusaders and the repugs.

[bowens43]

107. It's amazing how some peole are so frightened to hear the truth.

It's sad really, we were lied to for decades and now when someone tells the truth, it's not stereotyping BTW, we have a small , insignificant , portion of the population who pretend to be outraged. They prefer the soothing and comforting lies of the politicians who will do or say anything to get elected.

HIllary has earned the animosity that she receives. Don't give me that 'poor abused hillary' bullshit. Hillary is the poster child for everything that is wrong with politics in America today.

[Mass]

111. The problem is that Hillary and her supporters think that white voters in rural areas are idiots

who cannot think by themselves. Do you think they do not think they are bitter because they have been had so many times by Democrats and Republicans alike? Apparently, telling the truth is a problem for Hillary, probably because Bill is partly responsible for this poor state of the economy (NAFTA and China Trade agreement, hello). But they are not that stupid. They understand the Clintons will continue to lie to them because they do not care (Bill is lying to justify Hillary's lies about Bosnia).

[JoFerret]

112. A wise post

thank-you.

[kikiek]

113. The other obvious part is what Obama is doing. He is trying to emulate Bill Clinton. He isn't that

good though. How else would they have found something Clinton said in one of his campaign talks from years ago? Only Bill didn't say it in a manner that offended people. They changed the words too much for Obama. Should have stuck to the original script. Some people Obama has working for him were on Bill's campaign, and he was the most popular president of our time. So they decided to borrow from Bill. It is so obvious! And Obama has the audacity to say Bill Clinton didn't do anything for small town America economically. He is consistently attacking all the good that that both Clinton's have done in their lifetime. That isn't winning him votes.

[MethuenProgressive]

114. Great post. And all the BO followers can do is spam the thread with BS in response.

I'm glad real Obama supporters are nothing like the DU HillHaters.

[DemVet]

115. Despite hit ancestry, I think Obama has a problem with white people.

I think Saint Obama may just have a certain racist twist to his character. The American people will see that and toss him out on his butt if he's our candidate in the GE. JUST SAY NO TO OBAMA.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

117. K & R, thanks for the post and the reminder of the importance of closely following what each

candidate says, even though it gets nit picky and ridiculous at times. It's essential that we evaluate each on not only their past work but also on their extemporaneous spoken words.

We already know that Bush's "misspeaks" gave us plenty of red flags about the course of his presidency. Particularly his "if I'm the dictator" comment, admittedly occuring after he was (s)elected.

:kick:

[Mezzo]

118. I think this is telling.

and I don't think I could survive the pressure. There are posters here that can't take the wait.