How much will Hillary's lies about her past support of NAFTA & Free Trade hurt her?

[redqueen]

Anyone doing any surveys on that?

Gee... wonder why.

:eyes:

[acrosstheuniverse]

1. Honestly people don't care

they would rather base their votes on bullshit because they are afraid of change.

[redqueen]

11. Oh no... I think people *do* care...

but all I seem to see are polls about Wright, and "bittergate"... nothing about her lies about NAFTA.

It strikes me as odd...

[LSparkle]

2. The TRUTH will set us all free ... voters deserve to know that

No wonder the sucky mainstream media is doing its best to focus on the "bitter"
comment ... so Obama doesn't get the chance to use this issue against her
in PA the way he wasn't able to in Ohio.

[jackson_dem]

4. Use what? His rhetoric to voters or his actual views to billionaires in SF?

[LSparkle]

5. The FACT that she DID support NAFTA, which has cost this country jobs

She DOESN'T GET A PASS on this.

And could you please try NOT to bring "bittergate" into EVERY thread?

[jackson_dem]

13. Why does Obama get a pass from the "true believers" for having the same views on trade?

[redqueen]

18. Prove he has the same views.

Show me where he's said that NAFTA has been great.

[jackson_dem]

25. Pay $2,300 and see him when the cameras aren't rolling

Or pay $15 and read his book. He sounds just like Hillary Clinton on trade.

[redqueen]

26. Uh huh... so you can't back up your assertions.

Thanks for admitting it.

[jackson_dem]

32. Ask John Edwards why he criticized Obama over Peru FTA

Obama also had no objections to CAFTA on the merits. He voted against it only as a protest vote. This is in his book. Look at his voting record on trade. Then look at Clinton's. Exactly the same--except one biggie: Obama was one of a handful of Dems to vote against Dorgan's amendment to crack down on enforcing trade laws. Obama and a few other Dems who the "netroots" hate voted against it. St. Obama has a record. Why do you think we never hear of his trade record but only hear attacks on Clinton on trade and before him on Edwards? They know his trade record is the same as Clinton's and even worse (too bad most people don't know about the Dorgan amendment).

[redqueen]

38. Again... yeah, they're mostly the same...

But only one has flat-out lied about it.

Are you talking about Dorgan's amendment to ban Mexican trucks?

[jackson_dem]

44. No, Dorgan's amendment to protect workers from unfair trade practices by foreign nations

[redqueen]

48. Yeah I saw your other thread. Thanks. (nt)

[LSparkle]

21. Because he hasn't been in D.C. for YEARS pushing for trade deals

He agrees with the CONCEPT of "fair trade" (and recognizes that worker/
environmental rights need to be included and enforced), but he doesn't
carry the baggage of years of supporting trade at all costs ... and, yes,
this includes NAFTA. All she has to back up her assertion that she wasn't
for it are statements by David Gergen and James Carville; all other signs
point toward her being a "good soldier" and going along with the Clinton
Administration's official position.

[jackson_dem]

23. No he doesn't. He considers "fair trade" to be "anti-trade"

That is what he says to billionares and millionaires at $2,300 a head fund raisers. He does not say that on the stump, of course--but that is just words.

You are confusing Democratic boilerplate with being for fair trade. Every Dem says that. You can't rely on words. You have to look at their records, platforms, their affiliations (Obama is affiliated with Bob Rubin's Hamilton Project), and follow the money...

Clinton is a "free" trader. I can admit that. Too bad no Obamite can admit so is Obama. In fact, St. Obama's platform on trade is MORE pro "free" trade than Clinton's. Don't rely on just words.

[Blue_Roses]

36. prove the fuck he did what fatass Mark Penn did

you people are so fucking full of excuses. This is your livelihood and you wanna act like it's Obama's issue.

Give me a fucking break :mad:

[JackORoses]

8. How did you like today's Rasmussen?

Not what you were hoping for?

bwaaaaahahahaahahahaahahaha!

[jackson_dem]

15. When is the national primary? Did you see the post-smalltowngate PA and IN polls?

[JackORoses]

28. you are as big a hypocrite as Hillary

yesterday, weren't you using Rasmussen as proof that Obama was done for?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5485073

Why, yes, you were.

How do you keep your head from exploding when you encounter such blatant inconsistencies?
Does not compute, does not compute!!!!SNAPCRACKLEPOW!!!

[jackson_dem]

34. Yes, but as evidence changes I change my mind. What do you do?

Clearly, based on the existing evidence, he hasn't been hurt nationally although he may--and I emphasize may (1 poll in each state does not make a trend)--been hurt in PA and IN.

[JackORoses]

43. You had one polls worth of evidence and you made up your mind.

Why not base your decision on the really hard evidence?
The existing election results...

Obama has an insurmountable Delegate lead,
Twice as many States won,
Millions more in Funds and Donors,
and a Real Nationwide Movement

You are basing all your decisions on the hope that Obama somehow loses all of that.

Why has none of this Real Evidence changed your mind?
Maybe it is because your loyalty to Hillary is clouding your reasoning.
Could this be the case?

What evidence, short of Hillary withdrawing, would it take for you to change your mind to support Obama?

[jackson_dem]

45. I have always said one poll does not make a trend. Ask hnmf

I have explained why I think Hill can still win numerous times. You'll get an idea in 8 days. ;)

[JackORoses]

53. something tells me that even if Obama won PA, that still wouldn't be enough evidennce for you

Do you truly think Hillary will catch up in Delegates?

Do you truly think that the SDs will overturn the PDs?

If you cannot honestly answer yes to either of these, then you are deluding yourself in holding on to Hillary.

[JasonHill]

22. His views

were the same views articulated by both Hillary and Bill. That makes those who attack him for having them while not attacking Bill and Hillary as Hypocrites.

Bill:

"If could cut funding for Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment, middle-class Americans would see fewer benefits from their tax dollars, feel more resentful paying taxes, and become even more receptive to their appeals for tax cuts and their strategy of waging campaigns on divisive social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights, and guns."

-- Bill Clinton, in his 2004 memoirs, My Life, making the same argument as Sen. Barack Obama.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/04/13/historical_quote_of_the_day.html

Hillary:

mmigration: The Hottest Issue
Wednesday, Nov. 28, 2007 By JOE KLEIN

<snip>

There are signs of festering intolerance even among Democratic audiences, noticeably in Iowa, which has seen a surge of Latino immigration in recent years. The Democratic candidates are uniformly in favor of comprehensive immigration reform, including a path to citizenship for those who have entered the country illegally. But they receive sharp — pointed — applause when they say illegals should "have to speak English" before becoming citizens. When I asked Hillary Clinton about that, she said she'd noticed it too and added, "During the 1990s, I cannot remember being asked about immigration... Why? Because the economy was working... And average Americans didn't have to go around looking for someone to blame."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1688794,00.html

[redqueen]

7. They sure went bananas over her Bosnia tall tales... why not this?

:think:

[jackson_dem]

3. Not much since everyone outside the "netroots" and Obamanation realizes both are for "free trade"

Why are you "anti-trade", in Obama's corporate Wall Street code? Are you bitter?

[redqueen]

9. Yeah... right.

Sorry, but not everyone knows she lied her ass off.

Or... are you admitting that right now? That when she campaigned in OH she was lying her ass off about her past support of NAFTA?

Do you really think everyone knows she lied her ass off about it?

[jackson_dem]

12. No but they know she is a "free" trader--just like the messiah obama

[redqueen]

16. They need to know she is A LIAR.

And not about petty BS... but actual ISSUES... NAFTA, free trade... IRAQ and whether they were a threat.

You know... ISSUES.


And stop calling him a messiah... you are being a delusional Hillary supporter. It's unbecoming.

[jackson_dem]

27. They know she is a liar, just like St. Obama and every other politician

Like how Obama says one thing to voters, another thing to the Canadian government and billionaire's in SF.

[redqueen]

31. Do you think it's cute? Calling him "Saint" Obama?

Did Obama speak to the Canadian government, or are you conflating your BS claims?

[jackson_dem]

37. I think it is cute--and scary--how his "devoted followers" view him as a saint

Never lied, never flip flopped, never cast a wrong vote, never wrong on a single policy, never makes any mistake of any sort (i.e. smalltowngate), never goes negative, etc.

Back when we supported Edwards I am sure we could point out instances where he was wrong.

[redqueen]

39. You're making a lot of (stupid) assumptions...

and yeah... I can see where Obama's been wrong.

But has he flat-out lied about his past positions, the way Hillary has?

[jackson_dem]

46. You can. How many Obamites can?

[redqueen]

49. Who gives a shit? HE DIDN'T LIE ABOUT IT.

That's the issue with me...

[Major Hogwash]

33. So you freely admit they know they are supporting a liar?

Well, that's different from the people who voted for Bush how?

[jackson_dem]

35. You vote for the candidates available. Sadly--aside from Obama--not saint has run for president

[redqueen]

52. False dichotomy.

The options are not:

Saint vs. Bald-faced liar.

The options are:

Non-bald-faced liar vs. bald-faced liar.

[PVnRT]

6. Hillary tells no lies! Why are you an elistist?

[jackson_dem]

17. Sure she does

I can admit that but I am not a cultish follower of her...

[redqueen]

24. You're pretty big on slandering Obama's supporters, though.

Is that much better, do you think?

[DJ13]

10. It will hurt her a lot, and its being saved for the last few days before PA votes

Everything at this stage (including Obama's 'bitter' comment) is 24 hour news air filler.

The Obama campaign is holding off on the real damage they can inflict on Hillary over her free trade past until its too late in the news cycle to be dismissed by the MSM and the voters.

[redqueen]

14. I'm sure you're right...

his campaign is pretty astute... hers seems like it's being run by the keystone kops.

[NDambi]

19. She and her grab bag hubby have proven themselves as liars to me...and those around me

[jackson_dem]

29. I agree. That is why we must elect St. Obama. He has never told a lie

We are so lucky that we have a chance to vote for a saint for president. He has never lied, never flip flopped, never cast a bad vote. Perfect!

[NDambi]

40. I view the

Clintons as liars (and I do) that is my choice...you do what's best for you.

I never said Obama was a saint..but I know for sure Billy Gruff is a BIG sinner...lmao! And we know, Hilda has lied about Bosnia amongst other things..

Both of them..just lying liars..ugh! Hallelujah she's behind in every category..can't wait for them to just go away..to crawl under a bridge and troll without toll.

Ding Dong!

[uponit7771]

20. A lot if she keeps calling attention to them.

[Major Hogwash]

30. Blame it on the Amish - they don't get cable.

Man, I can feel the heat from the flamethrowers already, for me picking on a religious sect.

[anonymous171]

41. Obama should hit her hard on this in the debate. She can't laugh it off there.

[redqueen]

42. I hope he does.

I know they're similar on trade... but I don't think he's treated the voters like idiots by just flat-out lying to them.

[jackson_dem]

47. Ask the Canadian government what he says to them--not what he said to Ohio voters in public...

[redqueen]

50. What did he ever say to them?

You're confused... either that or you're being sloppy with your words.

[IndianaJones]

51. oodles. nt.