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The Electability Issue. Part One Of Why Clinton Loses This Argument.

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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:29 PM
Original message
The Electability Issue. Part One Of Why Clinton Loses This Argument.
Earlier today I saw a Clinton supporter making that electability argument. Again. They were citing the latest Rasmussen poll numbers from yesterday trying to give the impression that Obama was in a free fall and unelectable and oh gosh we need to all jump over and support Clinton the electable candidate to save ourselves. It's getting tiring.

So, here's part one in a continuing series of why this is all ridiculous. This episode will look at the most ridiculous choice this person made of which numbers to focus on in their post, the favorability to unfavorability ratings.

First, the relevent section of the post which inspired this:

Favorability

4/10: 52 fav, 45 unfav
4/11: 51 fav, 47 unfav
4/12: 51 fav, 48 unfav
4/13: 48 fav, 50 unfav

Obama goes from +7 to -2.

Most significantly his biggest losses come on the last day, when the greatest number of people thus far knew about his remarks.


"Oh no! the sky is falling!" Or at least this is obviously the conclusion which we are supposed to leap to. Unfortunately for those making this argument, reality intrudes. First, there are today's Rasmussen numbers in this category:

4/14: 48 fav, 50 unfav.

Oh look, they levelled off already. But that's not what makes this particular line of argument so completely outrageous. No... it's this, the rest of the favorable and unfavorable ratings form that same poll over the last couple months which I took the liberty of graphing out:



Clinton is never polling more favorable than Obama. Ever.



And Clinton is never polling less unfavorable than Obama. Ever. They've been equal on two days out of 63... one of those days immediately after Wright broke and the other 3 weeks before that, and that's the best Clinton has done against him. And it's pretty close to the best she can hope for here before this issue blows over as well. If she's really lucky she'll take him by a point or two... for a day or two... all still within the MoE.

Hey, there's a recipe for the most electable candidate, the one the fewest people like and the most people dislike, in every sample, every day, for months. Whose unfavorability levels never drop below 50% for more than 24 or 48 hour periods based on voters perceptions of them that are grounded in years of experience and familiarity and not very subject to any kind of significant change any more.

We're supposed to panic, because on one of Obama's worst polling days, he just got all the way down to performing right where Clinton does on her best polling days... and the response we should have to address this great cause for panic is to jump down to Clinton's numbers to 'save' ourselves.

The question here is, how stupid are we expected to be to go along with this? We're in the bottom of the expected dip that immediately follows one of these little manufactured controversies, it's in blow-over stage right now and soon we'll see the effects wear off the exact same way they did after Wright... and even now, at one of the single sample points which, if snipped out of the long term trends and completely isolated is the absolute most favorable to Clinton possible... it still shows Obama out-performing her. If we're supposed to look at this and believe he's unelectable, what does that say about her?

Part Two coming soon.
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great post
:kick:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nicely done.
:thumbsup:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary would have a much better argument as to her electability...
...if she started winning more elections.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. k/r
help i've fallen and i can't reach my keyboard
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Numbers Have An Elitist Bias!
and are often bitter if they don't go your way.

Thanks for the numerical truth..again.
It keeps the GDP silliness in perspective.

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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. If she had the ability to gain favorability, she wouldn't need a scorched earth policy. n/t
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Kick and summary...
Edited on Mon Apr-14-08 05:28 PM by gcomeau
...of the Clinton supporter argument on this metric:

"Guys, seriously, this is a disaster! You have to start paying attention to these numbers for Obama. They're horrible! They're terrifying! They're in the gutter!

They're... they're... they're almost as bad as Hillary's!

You can't get elected with numbers like those... we have to ditch this guy and get us an electable candidate. You see that right?

....

So... ummm... quick, vote Clinton."


(huh?)

(Edit: dang, wasted kick due to cross-post...)
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for posting this. You make a very important point.
Everything that the Clinton campaign has done to go after Obama has not resulted in ANY IMPROVEMENT in Hillary's favorable/ unfavorable ratings. So what is her goal? It doesn't look like she is electable, so is she trying to ensure an Obama loss? Is she planning to run again in 2012?
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FedoraLV Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Quite true /nt
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't see her new and latest low...
...of running a blatant personal attack ad in a campaign people have made it pretty clear that they don't want to see that crap in as doing any wonders there either. I anticipate her negatives ramping up just a bit more because of this when they're too high for her already. I'm seriously seeing her out of the Senate on top of everything else next election if she keep this up.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kick to keep part two company now that it's posted.... -nt
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. VERY nicely done.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Gah!
You posted that while I was writing Part Two. I used it to make the exact same argument! You beat me to the punch... curse you!
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. But you did it with pretty pictures
And will probably get more recs for your trouble. :)
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. thanks
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