Bashing Hillary

[Steely_Dan]

So, with all that I have read here, it appears that Ms. Clinton is the most evil woman alive. I have NEVER read such venom against a single person...and certainly not a fellow Dem.

I do not support either Obama or Clinton. I think that they are political poison for November. But I do not understand the vicious nature of the attacks.

Sure, she has said and done things that none of us approve of. But guess what, folks? That's politics. It's dirty and it's merciless.

How long has she carried the banner for Democratic causes? That alone should make you think twice before trashing her in the manner you are.

The primaries are over...Obama will likely be the nominee. Can't you just lay off for a while?

So, go ahead and flame me. I tend to forget what she has done recently and remember what she has done throughout her career. Can you name one other person in recent political times that has been trashed more than Hillary? Try and find your better selves and lay off.

-P

[niyad]

1. there are days I have to check and make sure I wasn't switched to that other site,

the venom and vitriol and pure hatred some days are sickening.

[Texas Hill Country]

3. it is amazing isnt it?

[MADem]

50. It's the Freeper PICTURES that they plaster about that blow my mind.

I've never seen anything like it here before this cycle--vicious, childish, and very GOP-stupid-mouthbreathing-moronic.

If this is where my party is headed, I might not be too enthused about going along for the ride. Of course, this forum is a minority voice, and not representative of the bulk of the party...but STILL, some of the vitriol is beyond belief. And most of it is coming from people I don't know, at all.

[Symarip]

2. Yeah, gheez

It's not like she helped vote us into a war or anything.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. I agree a part of the vitriol is likely sexist. There are legitimate reasons to dislike her, though.

[BlooInBloo]

5. She bashes me with every lie.

[berni_mccoy]

6. Hillary's living in a glass house, throwing stones.

[redqueen]

7. Uh... she carried the banner for NAFTA

then had the gall to lie about it.

She also carried the banner for... something... then turned around and parroted the White House's lies about Iraq 10 months *after* the war had started.

If calling her on that crap is called "bashing" then I will bash her until people explain how that kind of stuff is supposed to be overlooked.

[Steely_Dan]

12. Criticism is NOT Bashing

I am referring to the kind of name calling...like "bitch," "whore," "traitor," "the devil," "Skank," etc. etc. etc.

-P

[redqueen]

15. Isn't that the kind of stuff we're supposed to alert on?

:shrug:

[Mags]

8. they don't care, she is scum to them and then they expect us to turn around and support Obama.

[Lerkfish]

10. oddly enough, I don't expect you to do that at all.

interpret that as you wish.

[Window]

27. Actually, no, we don't.

[Lerkfish]

9. my uncle used to have a saying...

If you make your own bed, you have to lie in it.

This debacle is of Clinton's own making. I will not rescue or excuse her for it.

[Vinca]

11. Apparently you haven't read all the posts.

Did you know, according to someone here today, Obama is the Anti-Christ?

[Symarip]

14. ZOMFG

AND HE WENT TO A REZKO PARTY!!!!!!!

[Cha]

45. Yeah, I just love these "bashing hilary" posts..

Maybe the OP could tell hilary to stop lying and we'll stop calling her a fucking liar.

That'd probably be too much to ask, though.

[JuniperLea]

13. I doubt you'll get what you are asking for...

In fact, I'm betting you will get more of the same... sad, isn't it?

[Steely_Dan]

21. I Don't Know...

just how much the DU reflects "real life." I've been told that it is just as vicious out there as it is in here. Even if the DU is not representative of the general population, I have never been more ashamed of my party. I certainly will NOT lend my support to Mr. Obama and it is in large part due to the myopic and vicious nature of his supporters.

-P

[JuniperLea]

25. Neither candidate needs my support...

My dog could beat John McCain in the general election... no... my dog's droppings could beat McCain.

It's the "a vote for Hillary is a vote for McCain" bull that really makes me sad... how many posts have you seen like that? I've seen too many... and it smacks of right wing talking points to me.

[bunnies]

16. ok so....

Hillary being "dirty and merciless" = fair.

Being being "dirty and merciless" toward Hillary = not fair.

Got it. :crazy:

[rhett o rick]

23. You mean, "She started it" (in a whiny tone). Isn't that childish?

Can't you prevail w/o that?

[bunnies]

33. No. Thats not what I mean.

What I mean is exactly what I wrote. It's not exactly complicated.

[rhett o rick]

39. You are 100% right. It is not complicated. You said that because Hillary

is being being "dirty and merciless", it is therefor fair to do the same to her. Is this helping the Party?

[bunnies]

52. Oh, is that what I said?

Again, no.

What I am saying is that if we are to give Hillary a pass for dirty politics as the OP suggests, then everyone else should get a pass as well. It cant be just the 'nature of politics' for her and a cardinal sin for everyone else. That arguments it absolutely ridiculous.

[rhett o rick]

60. Please excuse me if I was wrong. It is what I heard. For the record, I am not defending

Sen Clinton, but trying to encourage peace and unity in the party. We must stay focused on the goal, defeating McBush.

[kwenu]

17. Ugh. You seem so BITTER!

[rhett o rick]

18. I think there are a few numbers of hateful people including a number of repuke trolls

that keep things stirred up. I feel they should be ignored. Don't respond to their sickness. They want attention and like Hannity, O'reilly etc they will say literally anything for attention. I generally stay the hell out of GD-P.

My feeling is that things will have to get a whole lot worse before the average American will revolt. Until then we will just wallow in the quagmire. Doesn't look to me like the Democrats can reverse the trend, they can only slow the boil.

Wake me when you're ready to kick some ass.

[DearAbby]

19. Nawh...

She is like the company. who just can't take the hint, it's time to go home. The party is over, and it's time for the guests to go...leave. buhbye now, bye! :hi:

[butterfly77]

20. She started it...

two camps against one she is giving more ammunition for when he wins..

[JuniperLea]

30. She started it... neener neener...

:eyes:

It takes two to tango.

[Zodiak]

22. No

She made her bed and now she has to lie in it.

Before this primary, she was barely tolerated by many DUers because of her membership in the DLC and her vote for the war. I have been on this board for some time and can tell you that she was never that popular here. If you have been on this board for a while (which I suspect you have), you know this to be true. She had adherents, of course, be she also had a long list of detractors, many of which are also long-time DUers.

But since this primary has begun, her tactics have been far beyond "not approved" by your average DUer...they are outright despised. Karl Rove's politics have no place in the Democratic party, or the United States for that matter, and to see one of our own use this against another Democrat who is 95% likely to be the nominee even though it damages the party's reputation as a whole has turned nominal tolerance to outright venomous rage.

And I can think of another Democrat who has earned this sort of reputation with equal vitriol spewed in his direction.....Joe Leiberman. I remember those rhetorical wars very well.

[Life Long Dem]

24. So she could live another day? Ha!

[JasonHill]

26. Disagree

First, you deserve no flaming. Anyone who would do that deserves all criticism they get.

The primaries aren't over. It is entirely possible that Hillary continues to erode the support of Obama to where she could be brokered in, helping to fracture the party even more. That is her only plausable strategy, going under a best-case scenario of judging her motives. Her particular brand of politics currently is both poisonous and predicated on trashing liberal values, and it needs to be called out on or it will continue to fester. Obviously many good people support her, but those who don't believe in treating others with fairness, regardless of however the nature of politics is perceived, should be called out or they too will continue to fester.

The irony of this all is that both Candidates are running on very similar platforms minus the nature of their foreign policy. Unfortunately ideas have taken such a sharp place backward because of the albatross that is the Iraq War.

[Steely_Dan]

Nice Post...

It makes sense and I can appreciate what you are saying.

-P

[Armstead]

28. It's what she's done recently that matters

She is doing her utmost to lay waste to the Democratic Party's chances.

She deserves every bit of bashing she is getting.

[Steely_Dan]

32. Including...

calling her a whore, traitor, skank, the devil...etc.etc?

Just asking.

-P

[Armstead]

59. I don;t condone those kind of attacks

But any civil negative characterizations do apply IMO

[TheDonkey]

29. I'll lay off when she stops trying to sabatoge the election because her ego. She's no Democrat

she's just about HER.

[quiet.american]

31. If you know politics is "dirty and merciless" surely you're not surprised by what you read here?

Or is it only the candidates who get to be "dirty and merciless"? :)

[Steely_Dan]

35. You bring up a good point...

and I thought of that before I posted. However, the degree to which she is being pummeled is beyond anything that I have ever seen.

-P

[quiet.american]

37. She's a big girl, she can take it. :) nt

[stillcool]

34. No...she's just a liar...

who has no use for Democrats.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. When she lays off, I'll lay off.

Obama will be the nominee, but Hillary is acting like she doesn't care and wants to destroy him anyway, even when she has no chance whatever of winning.

And I don't really think she's ever done much of a job carrying the banner for Democratic causes. She's been an undistinguished Senator, has made some good votes on important issues, but has made as many bad ones on very important issues, too. And it's rather hard to see it as carrying the banner for anyone but herself. Her carpetbagging her way to a safe Senate seat in New York, to pad her CV and give her 'experience' before a presidential bid, was a calculated and opportunistic move, not one undertaken because she thought that the people of New York (a state where she'd never lived and with which she had no ties) would be best represented by her in the Senate; her run for the presidency was undertaken with an arrogant sense of entitlement ('I will be the nominee'; 'it won't be a long run...it'll be over by February fifth') that the Democratic nomination was hers by right, as though we were in a monarchy, and she were next in the line of succession; now that it's ineluctably slipping away from her, she seems bent on taking Obama down with her, and handing the Republicans a victory in November.

If there is rage and venom directed at her, she has earned it, in full measure.

[BigBearJohn]

38. You are a true Democrat. Thanks for this marvelous post. K/R!

I have seen crap all over the internet about BOTH Obama and Clinton.
I have also seen inspiring articles on both of them.

I don't hate Obama. I don't love Clinton. Yet people here paint
Hillary as the next Matahari.
I would be happy with EITHER candidate as the next President.

I'd wager that if we had a group of DU'ers all together
for breakfast, with both Obama and Clinton supporters attending,
that there would be little of the utter vitriol we see here.

[GoesTo11]

40. That's politics. It's dirty and it's merciless.

From Merriam-Webster dictionary (online)

"Politics - 1 a: of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government b: of, relating to, or concerned with the making as distinguished from the administration of governmental policy"


In order for the people to take collective action, we need the kind of politics above. But dirty and merciless is a choice, and for the people it is not a good choice.

[backscatter712]

41. When she acts like a Republican, I'll treat her like a Republican.

I make no apologies.

[LSK]

42. You signed up in 2004, this is nothing new on DU

Did you take a 4 year break or something????

[cbayer]

43. There are those here that thrive on it

and they are not going to stop.

I have this picture in my mind of these young men who have been bullied and harassed their entire lives and now have an opportunity for some revenge. They can safely sit behind their computers and anonymously post all the hate and vitriol that they have been on the receiving end of their entire lives. I'm not saying I am right, it just helps me to picture them that way.

My guess is that they will go away once we have a nominee because their reason for being here will no longer exist.

[zalinda]

51. You need to add quite a few women to that pic, too. n/t

[cbayer]

55. Yes, I thought about that.

I realize that there are quite a few women in both camps that are also responsible for some of the behavior I find reprehensible. I can't quite picture them in the same way. I guess it's harder for me to understand women acting in this way, but clearly I am mistaken. The anger and hostility has to be coming from somewhere.

I am female, by the way.

[nichomachus]

44. One possible reason

It's entirely possible that a lot of people feel betrayed. A lot of Dems supported the Clintons through a lot of shit in the 1990s. They took their side against the GOP as well as the freepers and others who were out there smearing them.

Then, these supporters were sold downriver when she started cozying up with Republicans, Bill became BFF with Poppy Bush, Hillary developed a fondness for pre-emptive war and Rupert Murdoch. We've also found out that a lot of the stuff the freepers were saying during the '90s, and which we closed our eyes to, was true -- leaving a lot of Dems with egg on their faces.

Even so, some people stuck by, hoping she'd lead the way to a Dem ticket that would crush the GOP in Nov. Instead, she seems to have stumbled coming out of the gate and is piling blunder on top of blunder. She's shown an insensitivity and tone-deafness on the campaign trail that you would expect from a novice, not someone with 38 years of experience. In the meantime, Barack Obama has come out of nowhere -- as Bill did in 1991 -- to give her some real competition. Her response has been to go negative, in a very Karl Rove kind of way, on Obama. Some people don't like that.

I think a lot of what you see is a reaction to all of that. People who went out on a limb for her and for Bill feel betrayed. They feel used and lied to, and that feeling almost always leads to extreme anger.

[NJmaverick]

46. Hillary EARNED the bashing she is getting

Her actions and her actions alone are the cause of the anger and animosity. There is no reason to defend her.

[noiretextatique]

47. there are some archtypes at play

obama will have a hard time living up to all that's being projected onto him.

[smiley_glad_hands]

48. As long as she is using right wing frames against progressives she is fair game. eom

[Arugula Latte]

57. Her alignment with McCain is just infuriating as well.

She's brought this on herself by putting her own aspirations above the good of the party and the country.

[monmouth]

49. You might be a "closeted" HRC supporter....lol....n/t

[zalinda]

53. Don't you know, Clinton has so much power

that EVERYTHING that Obama does that's suspect, it her fault. And, for a month now they have been floating the spin that if Obama loses the GE, it's Clinton's fault too.

I would love to have as much power as that woman seems to have. :sarcasm:

I have to wonder, if she was so all powerful, why hasn't she wrapped up the nom already.

zalinda

[WillyT]

54. I'd Like To Buy Her A Beer Actually...

:evilgrin:

[PerpetuallyDazed]

56. More and more, I see MANY who lack common decency!

Yes, there is a difference between criticism and "bashing" -- bashing is using insults like "skank", "bitch", "whore", ect. People just can't legitimately CRITIQUE and call her a liar without throwing in a personal insult. (As if proclaiming to the world that Hillary is a "major bitch" will immediately prove their argument or something.)

What the hell? Did your parents fail you people, or what?

[Bensthename]

58. The problem is, she is ruinning any dem chance for this Nov..

[krkaufman]

61. The primaries are over?

Please feel free to let Hillary know, eh?

As for trashing of Hillary, this campaign cycle has shown that the question of "which came first?" applies not just to chickens and eggs, but to Clinton campaigning and Right Wing antipathy for the Clintons. If this is how the Clintons campaign against fellow Democrats, I imagine that Republican supporters have seen far worse, and so it is very probable that this Clintons brought some of the Right Wing hate on themselves.

Lastly, if we're supposed to recognize politics as dirty and merciless, why must Obama supporters let up on Hillary and/or her more fanatical of supporters?