QUESTION FOR ALL HILLARY SUPPORTERS, AND ALL BLUE COLLAR WORKERS

[monicaaida]

What does Senator Obama have to do for you guys to connect with him, and have the potential to vote for him? Or will his bio automatically disqualify him from your consideration?



this is a non flame, non insult threat



thanks


kyle mccaskill

future

u.s. senator of


kansas

[LostinVA]

1. He uses ex-gay ministers to campaign for him

That's unforgivable. I also believe our country needs a pragmatist, not somebody with just speeches (that they constantly have to explain).

Otherwise, his platform is quite similar to Hillary's. That's what makes it so hilarious when people call her a Republican and him a liberal messiah.

[monicaaida]

4. ok

so, you don't like obama because he talks about what the world can be like, and you want him to talk about what the world is like now.

[LostinVA]

6. No -- it goes WAY further than that

He's proved to be far too much of a panderer on GLBT and women's issues.

[PM7nj]

20. Then why does he have any support with gays at all

If McClurkin was so unforgivable, as you say. From what I can see, the gay "community" is split about 50/50.... So what, are the 50% of us who support Obama self-hating, or log cabin republicans, or sexists, or blind... I don't know, i've been called all of those things.

[LostinVA]

25. Beats the hell out of me -- I don't understand it in the least

[TML]

2. Blue Collar & Obamaholic Here

We're both bi-racial.
We both love our country.
We have faith in the people of this country to do what's right.
We have hope that we can make this country better than it has been for the past eight years.
We're both against this illegal war.

[cliffordu]

3. Here ya go....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5505872&mesg_id=5505872 :patriot:

[Olney Blue]

5. Please don't interrupt me while I'm cleaning my gun.

Just kidding. :hi:

He is a Democrat, so I'm already connected.

[monicaaida]

7. hey

does the fact that many in the media and alot of liberal and new voters see him as a rock star and not a politician turn you off, because many of you say that mccain is your man in ge against obama, i just wanna know in that case are you really against bush and his policies or just loyal to hilary, since mccain wants all of bush's plans


this is not an attack

[Olney Blue]

13. I'm a Hillary supporter, but I will vote for Obama in the GE.

I would NEVER vote for a republican.

[Lilith Velkor]

8. Finish his first term as Senator.

It's bad form to go on the "fast track" instead of doing your time and paying your dues. I've had supervisors like that, and they have invariably sucked.

[monicaaida]

10. ok

but why vote mccain?

[Lilith Velkor]

17. I don't know why you are voting for McCain.

Maybe you should tell us.

[LostinVA]

26. I'm not voting McCain -- why are you suggesting I should?

[cali]

24. bad form. bwahahaha. yeah, damn Abraham Lincoln

for running after one lousy little term in the House. How dare he. And your comparison about your supervisors is just hillarianly silly.

[Lilith Velkor]

30. What a mature, substantial argument.

:eyes:

[Texas Hill Country]

32. honestly, it was his election that ripped the country apart....

while a great president in hindsight, his Presidency caused some serious issues... ie. The Civil War.

Not really the best person to pick out.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. Have a chat with some of his supporters here on DU and tell them to

stop acting like assholes. :)

[monicaaida]

11. hey

if you hillary blue collar voters want mccain over obama, then maybe i should consider mccain, so why do you like mccain, because i would never vote for someone that didn't have my democratic interest at heart

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Who said anything about votong for fucking McCain?

I can't stand him and I will vote for Hillary or Barack.

[monicaaida]

14. well

many hill and blue collars say this 28% if i'm correct

[Marrah_G]

23. And most of those polled will vote for him anyway.

Just like all the jackasses here who say they would vote mccain if there candidate doesn't win. In the end, most will vote Democrat. They are just mad right now.

Have you been concerned about all the posts that say they won't vote for Hillary? I bet there are more.

[rodeodance]

15. Oh stop calling out Hillary supporters.

[Rageneau]

16. Get one complete senate term under his belt and do something worth remembering him for.

Nobody knows what Obama stands for, except for the catchword "change." His speeches tell us nothng; they are glittering generalities interspersed with platitudes. "And that's what it's going to be like when I am President -- good, not bad."

I support Hillary and I know why. I have nothing against Obama, but I don't see what all the fuss is about him. To me, all he seems to have going for him is a thin frame, a nice manner, a pleasant face and nice clothes.

All of which -- to some degree -- Bush also has.

[Marrah_G]

18. Your concern is noted

[monicaaida]

19. no

i'm not calling you guys out, i have alot of respect for you girls and guys, i just wanna know why you guys don't like the obama, and what can he do to gain your respect. and why would you choose mccain. obama passed a law back in 2001 that saved my mothers life and many others in ill., i wish you could meet that obama, not the media hype that the pres plays up

[Marrah_G]

22. Who said we don't like Obama?

I like Obama. I think Hillary is better. I will vote for Obama regardless of the crap said here. It's not something I am looking forward to. I probably won't put in the effort as I have in the past. That's more due to many of his supporters rather then the candidate himself.

Posts like your...with all the assuption, get old really damn quick and frankly I have no tolerence left for them.

I am a DEMOCRAT supporting a DEMOCRAT in a DEMOCRATIC primary on a DEMOCRATIC website. I am not the fucking enemy. I simply am not compelled by "hope and change", already voted for that slogan and those same speeches, little fruit has come from that tree.

[LostinVA]

27. I'm not choosing McCain -- I don't understand why you keep saying that

Why are you calling him "the Obama" and not Sen. Obama? That's just well...creepy.

[Two Americas]

21. simple

Campaign on a clear and strong program based on the traditional principles and ideals of the Democratic party, and stop pandering to the upscale progressive activist base.

Trying to appear to be one of the regular folks - ala Kerry hunting, WTF ever Clinton is trying to talk about, etc., is death. He is an elite - so be it. So what? So were FDR and RFK. So what? That isn't the point. Stop trying to "relate" to everyone, and stop playing to the base. The country is in crisis, people are hurting. Fight. Fight for the people. All of the culture war issues would disappear in that context, and the culture war issues are the Republican's playing field, anyway. It is the only hope they have of winning over the electorate.

If Obama went to bat for the average person, the average person would go to bat for him. But we would need to have his back on that. We, as activists and intellectuals, play an important role in this. We need to stop demanding that the Democratic party politicians represent us, our preferences, our tastes, our prejudices. We need to demand that they represent the people who do not have the luxuries and benefits that we (many of us, not all) have - education, status, success, political sophistication. The whole idea of living a certain lifestyle and making certain choices is a luxury that most people do not have and do not care about - riding a bike and claiming that this "saves the planet" for example. We need to demand that they represent the least among us, not the beautiful like-minded folk.

Obama, just as Kerry and Gore before him, runs the risk of thrilling and pleasing the progressive base at the expense of alienating the general public. Denying this, or fantasizing about some golden day in the future when 50+% of the population will be just like us, is a certain path to failure.

There is nothing wrong with the people. They are not to blame for their misery. There is nothing new, unexpected, or surprising about the Republican positions. They represent the wealthy and powerful few, and do whatever it takes to win, and every single success that the Republicans have is one that we have handed them on a silver platter.

Our role, as activists between the public and the candidates, is to sell the people's needs to the candidates, not sell the candidates to the people. We need to give the candidates cover, we need to have their back and not expect them to please us nor to do our jobs for us.

Give me something to take to poor people and to rural people, and I will have a 90% success rate, and so could all of us.

An FDR New Deal program would win 65% of the vote right now, despite the media bias, the election theft, and the right wing pandering and propaganda. There is no downside to this. Obama is a candidate who could speak for it effectively. We are the ones urging caution and moderation, we are the ones who insist on fighting the right wingers on the culture war issues, we are the ones pulling the candidates the wrong direction, we are the ones who are viewing the people with contempt and condescension.

Do we want to win, or settle again for being "right" so we can feel superior to the rest of the population?

[susankh4]

28. One thing

Reign in his overzealoius followers.

Tell them to tone it down and quit attacking their fellow Democrats.

[xchrom]

29. it's his responses to the lgbtiq community.

and i'm not a hillary supporter -- but i am 'bitter' -- a newly popular term -- about those things and i am very strongly opposed to him.

and i'm also strongly opposed to the vaguely religious overtones of his campaign.

[Texas Hill Country]

31. I appreciate the nice message, and will respond in kind.

1. There is nothing that has turned me off more than the vitriol thrown at Clinton by his supporter. She has been at the forefront of womens rights, childrens rights, GLBT rights, healthcare, and more, as well as having been a part of many landmark events. She was the most politically active first lady since Eleanor Roosevelt. She deserves respect for her accomplishments both as a woman and as a human being. He should make ask his followers to stop with the hate, especially if he is all about hope and unity.

For me, these people are turning me off so much, it is getting to the point where I might refuse to vote for him even if he is the nominee because I refuse to support someone that implicitly allows for such vitriol and hate to be thrown at a party member.


2. He needs to address tough issues more clearly.

For example, his speech, while great, basically was an explanation of both sides and their issues. He explained the problems of black racism and white resentment, but did not distance himself from either.

Another example would be his stance on the issue of Pro-Choice in the Compassion Forum. He explained both sides of the issue and the feelings both sides had on the subject, and did so fully, but did not really give his own solid stance.


If he is gonna make it thru the GE, then he is going to have to be more firm on the tough issues. He seems to vote "present" too often.



3. He plays semantic word games to create differences with Clinton on issues. My favorite example is his substitution of the word "preparations" for "preconditions" and even though he defines them in a similar way, he vilified her requirement of "preconditions."

In addition, in almost every debate, it seems as though he either says "I think Hillary is right..." or basically re-words her answer and acts like he is saying something new and ingenious. I know that they have similar platforms, but the rationale behind and reasons for the conclusions they have both reached are different, just as anyones reasons for anything are different from person to person.


4. He needs to be fully vetted on the Rezko issue, that has now directly tied him to Auchi, who was convicted of corruption in France and was accused of laundering money of Saddam Hussein and Col. Khadafi by Belgian officials. Clinton has her issues with past shady dealings, they have been absolutely raked over the coals for 20 years and they left NO stone unturned. The difference is that Obama's shady dealings are ON TRIAL right now and little tidbits, like the tie to Auchi, keep popping up. I can see the RW attack ads in my head and they are BRUTAL.


5. He needs to further insulate himself from Wright. This poses a potentially very serious problem in the GE. I have seen some of the RW market testing for their adverts on this... and they are way harsh.


6. As many people suspect, I feel like the party is being torn apart, and I don't think it is mostly the fault of the Clintons. I do not think they have helped, but I feel like most of the destruction has come from the Obama camp.

The is one major difference between the attacks the Clintons have made and the attacks Obama has made. The Clinton has attacked Obama only on issues that would be used in the GE, and has brought them up much more kindly than the Republican 527s will. Obama's accusations, such as those of racism, have been issues that would not be used in the GE. His camp has unneccessarily torn down another democrat, while Clintons tend to be more the electability and vetting of Obama issues.

He needs to start bringing the party together now if he is expecting moderate democrat support, cause right now, he doesnt really have it.



7. He needs to effectively kill the midwesterners are bitter, racist, xenophobic, anti-trade, gun toting, bible beaters comment. That is an electablity issue, and a severe one at that. Percieved elitism is the major reason for the loss in 2000 and one of two reasons we lost in 2004.


8. He needs to be better and more clear on women's issues and GLBT rights. He has not been super great.




So those are the issues I have. This is meant in response to you on how I feel and what I see. This is not meant to be responded to by any Obama supporters on here. I really don't want to hear about how I am wrong about this or that. It will only guarantee I will not vote for Obama if I get flamed.

Thank you,