In St. Pete Times interview Hillary Clinton attacks Obama and the DNC.

[madfloridian]

This is getting more and more frustrating. She is using this issue to hurt the party by trying to keep the people angry. It is quite the opposite of what she said a few months ago.

She agreed then to go by the party rules and honored the place of the first four states. But now that she needs the delegates, she is pursuing this endlessly.



Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, shown in a congressional hearing last week, told the Times on Sunday, “It’s always been my hope and my expectation that we would be smart enough to figure out we don’t want to alienate 1.75-million voters in Florida.’’

Florida's vote boosts nominee's legitimacy, Clinton says

In an exclusive interview with the St. Petersburg Times, Clinton offered her most extensive remarks on the delegate problem and pushed back at the Democratic National Committee's philosophy of having the campaigns approve a settlement.

"I don't think it's up to Sen. (Barack) Obama or me to dictate any resolution. I think it's up to the DNC to decide how to proceed, and I would hope that it would do so recognizing what's at stake,'' Clinton said in the interview late Sunday. "It would be tragic if we came out of this process ignoring the will of 1.7-million Floridians, setting us up for a very unhappy electorate in the fall, giving Republicans this incredible argument they could make against us."

She further blamed Obama for not going along with what she wanted.

So why didn't she speak up sooner about the need to count the votes of Florida Democrats, rather than wait until her campaign was in trouble after losses in Iowa and South Carolina?

"I was a little preoccupied,'' she said, laughing. "I was trying to stay alive, frankly."

.."The elected officials in Michigan were all united — let's revote. The Democratic National Committee decided to support a revote. The only person who didn't want to let people vote was Sen. Obama,'' Clinton responded.

"The cynical explanation is, no, Sen. Obama does not want people's votes to count. We're Democrats. I thought we believed in counting votes."

She is not telling the truth. She is making stuff up to toss at Obama. Of course he wants peoples' votes to count, but within the rules.

When you deliberately break the rules, intentionally, on purpose as FL and MI did....you just do not get the option of setting the agenda.

What angers me more is that her national co-chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, rounded up some senior citizens and posed them with signs to make our vote count. The campaign is constantly keeping Florida people agitated and stirred up.



From the article. Broward County seniors.

Rally with Seniors

On Saturday, a scroll circulated throughout the crowd of nearly 3,000 Florida seniors who gathered for the rally. The older voters signed on to support a decision that could help determine the Democratic nominee for president.

"A scroll that has been signed all over the state of Florida … is here today, voters are signing to urge the Democratic National Committee to seat our delegation," U.S. Rep. Debbie Wassermann Schultz told the crowd.

Schultz, one of many organizers behind the effort to ensure Florida's votes are counted, said she believes Hillary Clinton can overtake Barak Obama if votes from Michigan and Florida are added to the mix.

Governor Dean gave an interview recently saying that they were not going to bend the rules for either side.

She seems unwilling to accept that.

The Atlanta Journal Constitution recently wrote that Hillary Clinton suffered from "campaign bubble syndrome.

I tend to agree. She either is not aware she is harming the primary process...which does have rules....or worse, she just does not care.

[goldcanyonaz]

1. COUNT OUR VOTES!

[mckeown1128]

3. They will count your votes when FL holds a real election. nt

[EFerrari]

9. The poster is a hillbot in AZ who, lol, has never met an Obama supporter.

lol

[mckeown1128]

12. Why are they acting like a hillbot from FL then? lol

They don't even know what states they are from anymore. lol lol

[EFerrari]

14. Because they are entirely out of touch with common people,

and their actual geographic locations?

:rofl:

[mckeown1128]

16. haha. nt

[rodeodance]

11. and if

obama is the nom. mccain will take FL.

[mckeown1128]

13. And Obama will take NC, VA, NV, NM, CO, SD, IA, NE

and if Hillary is the nom she will lose all of those above + she will lose MI and WA.

So, I will stick to supporting Obama, since he is the strong GE candidate against McCain.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. G'luck on that!

:rofl:

[mckeown1128]

19. I was just listing the results of GE poll match ups...

I am assuming, that is what Rodeo was refering to also. So, it doesn't seem that Obama needs much luck. He is ahead or tied in all of those states in polling. Most of the polling coming from SUSA which has a much better track record this year than other polls.

[goldcanyonaz]

20. They BOTH have issues in the GE, and that's the only reason why I support a unity ticket.

[mckeown1128]

23. I don't think a Unity ticket helps either of them...

Obama as Hillary's vp hurts her "experience" claim and scares off her rural white voters. And Hillary as Obama's VP hurts him in his strong suit of Independents, because she will scare them off.

[goldcanyonaz]

24. It helps us all get out to vote. We want that, no?

[mckeown1128]

25. I don't think it will increase Dem voters for either candidate.

I think Dems will vote for either regardless of what they may say in polling. If I were polled I would say that I wouldn't vote for Hillary in the GE. That isn't necessarily true... but I would say it out of protest against what I see as bad Hillary campaign tactics. I think most dems who say they wont vote for the other candidate are BSing to express how much they don't like the other candidate, but in the end most of those will vote for the dem.

[goldcanyonaz]

28. Don't count on it. We're divided as all hell. Many want to write the other in.

We've never had this problem before. It's always been one white dude or the other. NEVER have we had one white woman and a black man going in.

[mckeown1128]

37. I still think they do more damage to each other than benefit. nt

[Hepburn]

49. So.........

...AZ is now the abbreviation for FL???

:rofl: <------- laughing AT you and not WITH you!

[EFerrari]

6. Don't you mean "Count their votes that were cast

in a primary that violated DNC rules"?

:rofl:

[Hepburn]

50. Hey....

....don't you know...it's unfair to Hilly...pout, pout, pout!

:rofl:

[cultfree]

47. They Will Count

Mad props to my home town paper for telling it like it is. The FL votes will be counted if you want to win the GE. And don't worry, Obama fans, more rallies from FL are on the way.

[Hepburn]

48. ...

...:eyes:

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Do those seniors even know what is on those signs? Or were they promised an extra hour of Matlock

before lights out?

[islandmkl]

4. what she said a few months ago?...

hell, that didn't work for her, so she's long-forgotten anything she said a few months ago...

there is no bottom to this cesspool, this quest of hillary's for 'her' presidency...

she is a bitter, bitter woman these days...and it isn't going to get any better

[Cha]

5. Toyko Rose has nothing on

hilary clinton.

[mckeown1128]

7. Wow her two attack contridicted each other.

Here she says that the DNC is to blame not the campaigns.

"I don't think it's up to Sen. (Barack) Obama or me to dictate any resolution. I think it's up to the DNC to decide how to proceed...

Then she says that the DNC wants a revote and that somehow Obama is to blame even though she says above that "campaigns don't get to dictate a resolution.

The Democratic National Committee decided to support a revote. The only person who didn't want to let people vote was Sen. Obama

So, who is to blame for FL and MI not holding official primaries this year... Obama or the DNC... or maybe (and this is a wild thought I know) just maybe it is the FL and MI Dem parties' fault.

[Usrename]

27. Gosh, I wish she would pick one lie and then try to stick to her story.

x(

[grantcart]

8. interestingly enough the national media has finally gotten board with it

[rodeodance]

10. Good for Hillary. Dean and DNC mucked up.

[guyanakoolaid]

35. Yeah, who did think they were letting rules get in the way of her nomination!

[IndianaGreen]

15. She is such a piece of shit!

This country does not deserve four years of Clintonian psychodrama to follow the revolting Bush regime. We deserve better!

[madfloridian]

18. Wise words from Gore to someone else who had to give up a dream

Hard to exit

"So Gore didn't tell me to quit. He stayed up with me that night patiently, empathetically listened.

"Think long term", he said. "Keep your eye on where you really want to end up."

"This isn't about whether Howard Dean ends up being president of the United States. It is about the future of the country."

"Al Gore had the presidency in his grasp. He was the one person who had the right to tell me whatever the hell he wanted. And only he could have been so right.

The Dean for America Campaign was about much much more than electing me to the White House. It was about reempowering people and giving them hope, and providing them with the tools to rebuild America in their own image."

[SoCalDem]

21. I'm beginning to think she's going to just burst into flames one day

Our Hilly's a piece of........ work

[madfloridian]

39. I never felt that way about the Clintons before. There is no pleasure

in seeing her this way. I stood up for them all through the 90s in this very conservative area. I hate this is happening.

[BzaDem]

22. Repeat after me: Revoting is not in violation of the rules.

Revoting is not in violation of the rules.
Revoting is not in violation of the rules.
Revoting is not in violation of the rules.

You can make "the rules" argument when it comes to counting the original votes, but when it comes to the revote, that is not in violation of the rules. Governor Dean said (well after Feb 5th) that he looked forward to seeing proposals from both states for a delegate selection plan that was within the rules.

But these delegate selection plans did not pass, because Obama's supporters found reasons (such as not allowing Democrats who voted in the Republican primary to vote again) to oppose and kill any chance for a revote.

The rules argument doesn't work for the revote.

[PetraPooh]

26. Fine, if FL and MI want to revote they should pay for it themselves;

not attempt to force the candidates or the DNC to pay for it.

[madfloridian]

38. Clinton's own co-chair worked against the revote...

while she blamed it on Obama.

This is all so twisted.

[PetraPooh]

41. Yeah, I've read that. But the co-chair would have no standing if

MI simply chose to have a complete re-primary from the ground up and paid for it themselves. It is the other types of not previously used in MI re-votes that take a consensus from the candadidates, like mail in re-votes or ones where the national arm ahs to pay or where the candidates have to pay.

[KSinTX]

43. "The rules" argument re: revote is a STATE issue

Neither campaign can tell the state how it conducts its primary. The state "screwed the pooch," tried to blame Republicans who offered them a do-over and got bushwhacked by the likes of Jeremy Ring, Democratic State Senator and CO-SPONSOR of HB #537: "My hope is we've blown up the whole primary system. It would be the biggest legacy we'll get from this legislation." (Tampa Bay Online, 01/20/08) and Dan "I don't have any constituents in the DNC" Gelber, now an add-on superdelegate;

http://www.miamiherald.com/political-currents/story/460227.html (Emphasis mine)

Florida Democrats, who had already closed the door on holding a full-scale conventional election or a caucus, scrapped the controversial vote-by-mail primary they had proposed less than a week ago as their best option, saying it just isn't possible.

"While your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again. So we won't," Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Karen Thurman said late Monday in a letter to Florida Democrats.

[madfloridian]

29. We have a chance to bring change to the party....she is not going to let it happen.

That is I think what angers me the most. The way she has handled things lately worry me....stretching the truth, changing her mind on things as it becomes convenient.

I saw what happened in 2004 in the primary. Clark was backed by the Clintons to be the anti-Iraq candidate and take that title from Dean.

I see what is happening now. Obama is not perfect, but he is a brilliant man, well-educated who could lead this country without the proximity of the Bush clan...which the Clintons have enjoyed.

Change is not going to be allowed. The ability of both Dean and Obama to get large numbers of donations from small donors is scaring the powers that be.

What she is doing is meant to harm the party. I don't think she has any intention of stopping. It worries me, and it angers me. I never saw this side of the Clintons before...and it is frightening.

[Dr.Phool]

30. Shouldn't Debbie Dubya-Shultz be busy doing something?

Like helping elect some of those Democratic congressional candidates down in South Florida?

Oh, I forgot. The repukes down there are "her friends", and she can't campaign against them. Great person you got in charge of Red to Blue, there DCCC.

[madfloridian]

31. You got that right. She won't work against her GOP buddies.

.

[undeterred]

32. She is willing to fight for herself only, not for our country.

People with political ambition are spectacularly selfish, many of them. She exemplifies this.

[madfloridian]

33. You are right. I never saw this side before...and I don't like it at all.

I hope some superdelegates decide to have courage to step in.

[Citizen Kang]

34. She agreed to play by the DNC's rules

now she wants to change the rules in her favor.

Tough.

Thank you Howard Dean for not letting her manipulate and steal her way to the nomination like a Bush would.

[guyanakoolaid]

36. She is looking to sew up a future nomination... as a Republican

Republicans love gun nuts who blindly support war

[madfloridian]

40. FL is her excuse to take this bitter battle to convention. Manipulation

of the voters. In case you thought she would give up ever....just forget about it.

She has declined ANY compromise.

"While some Obama supporters have talked about working out a compromise to recognize the Jan. 29 results in a way that gives Clinton a few extra Florida delegates, the Obama campaign has only publicly proposed dividing Florida and Michigan's delegates evenly.

Clinton said that would clearly disenfranchise Florida voters. Likewise, she declined to embrace the proposal by her most prominent supporter in Florida, Sen. Bill Nelson, who has suggested Florida send a full delegation to the August convention in Denver, but that each delegate would have only half a vote.

Some observers, including Obama supporters, suspect Clinton doesn't want the issue resolved. The uncertainty over how to handle those elections could be a vehicle for a floor fight at the convention, and it could give uncommitted superdelegates a reason to hold off on moving to the frontrunner, Obama.

[greguganus]

42. She always cackles when she's lying. n/t

[rodeodance]

44. stop the sexist nonsence

[Coexist]

45. I saw that.

[Beacool]

46. Florida will go Republican if Obama is the nominee.

Obama is not as electable as the lefties in the party think that he is.

[madfloridian]

51. Florida will go Republican whatever, whoever. Stop threatening.

I hate that tactic.

Don't pick Obama or we will go Republican.

So obvious.

[Beacool]

52. It's not a threat, it's reality.

Hillary has as much of a chance to win FL as McCain, with Obama we lose the state by double digits.

[madfloridian]

54. Then we lose it. The world will not end.

I hate to tell you but hubby and I were almost mocked here by fellow Dems not long ago for supporting Obama. Now one by one they are switching to him.

And they are starting to see the truth about the primary boondoggle.

[AtomicKitten]

53. You reports have convinced me the Clintons are operating a shadow party.

Howard Dean has his hands full with these idiots constantly poisoning the well and reframing reality. It is absolutely breathtaking in magnitude.

Oy.

K&R :hi:

[madfloridian]

55. Here's what convinced me though I doubted it at first.

From The Nation:

A few months earlier, The New Republic had reported that Clinton's camp was "laying the groundwork to circumvent the DNC in the event that Clinton wins the nomination." This shadow DNC had a number of integral parts: adviser Harold Ickes would develop state-of-the-art technology to help Clinton reach prospective voters; EMILY's List and Clinton's allies in organized labor would launch an unprecedented effort to turn out supporters, especially women voters; former DNC chair Terry McAuliffe would raise untold sums from wealthy donors and the business community; and communications honcho Howard Wolfson would direct an unrelenting war room. Ever since 1992 the Clintons had used the DNC as an outpost for raising money from big donors, and funding candidates had taken precedence over nurturing progressive organizers. That model would continue into '08. Dean could remain at the DNC as a figurehead but only if he stayed in line.

And then the effort to marginalize Dean collapsed. Partly it's because the party's Congressional takeover--and a subsequent study by Harvard's Elaine Kamarck documenting Dean's contributions toward that end--eventually silenced the Carville-ites. Partly it's because Barack Obama forced the Clintons to devote all their resources to fending off his insurgent candidacy. But another reason the DNC-in-exile never got off the ground was Dean himself. Dean is no longer a marginalized figure, the butt of "Dean scream" jokes, but a man with a powerful constituency in regions where his fifty-state strategy has energized aging, ailing or previously nonexistent state parties. His support to these parties has not only strengthened them but has created an independent power base for Dean himself.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/berman

All the players mentioned are doing their part. That convinced me.