"I Was There: What Obama Really Said About Pennsylvania"

[understandinglife]

This is important fellow DUers.

Last Sunday evening I attended the San Francisco fundraiser that has been the center of recent political jousting. The next day, when asked about the talk Obama delivered, I too commented about his answer to a question he was asked about Pennsylvania. Over the past week, though, I have had a Rashomon-like experience concerning those remarks.

Clinton, McCain, and media pundits have parsed a blogger's audio tape of Obama's remarks and criticized a sentence or two characterizing some parts of Pennsylvania and the attitudes of some Pennsylvanians. In context and in person, Senator Obama's remarks about Pennsylvania voters left an impression diametrically opposed to that being trumpeted by his competitor's campaigns.

<clip>

The response that followed sounded unscripted, in the moment, as if he were really trying to answer a question with intelligent conversation that explained more about what was going on in the Pennsylvania communities than what was germane to his political agenda. I had never heard him or any politician ever give such insightful, analytical responses. The statements were neither didactic nor contrived to convince. They were simply hypotheses (not unlike the kind made by de Tocqueville three centuries ago ) offered by an observer familiar with American communities. And that kind of thoughtfulness was quite unexpected in the middle of a political event. In my view, the way he answered the question was more important than the sociological accuracy or the cause and effect hypotheses contained in the answer. It was a moment of authenticity demonstrating informed intelligence, and the speaker's desire to have the audience join him in a deeper understanding of American politics.

How about all of you reading the full text of ... and then spreading it to every corner of America.

Thank you,
Bob

[EFerrari]

1. Okay.

[datopbanana]

2. no this is cheating! he can only be judged on 15 arbitrarilly chosen words

chosen by neo-cons

[2rth2pwr]

3. It's simple- Obama supporters don't like it when their well-thought-out reasons for following Obama

are dismissed as emotional, irrational, and thoughtless. They should understand, then, why people who don't support Obama—or in the past haven't voted for

Democrats—don't like being told that they've drunk some kind of crazy Kool-Aid."
http://www.slate.com/id/2188963/pagenum/2/

[Quixote1818]

5. How do you feel about all of Hillary's fuck ups?

Because she has a lot more than Obama does.

[2rth2pwr]

12. She has a flair for the dramatic.

[SoCalDem]

17. SNIPERS...... run for the car..

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

19. The melodramatic, you mean. Poor Nell!

[2rth2pwr]

25. Dudley's the Man.

[haymakeragain]

63. BWAHAHAHAHA, talk about zombitization. Seek out a remedy.

good luck with that.

[tblue]

7. Who said who drank Kool-Aid?

[Eric Condon]

22. Real classy sig line.

"We ('Americans') believe in God..."

Nice RW talking point.

[IntravenousDemilo]

26. Well, at least you admit that Obama followers follow Obama for well-thought-out reasons.

That's a good start. Here's hoping you recover fully in time for the election. Cheers!:toast:

[2rth2pwr]

28. Everybody feels that way, that's why it's condescending to tell people that they are ignorant.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

30. You telling others about the effects of being condescending...

Roll another one Sanity Cruz. :smoke:

[IntravenousDemilo]

32. Ignorant? Wow, how did you derive that from what he said? n/m

[2rth2pwr]

33. Consider that if you say, "Marry me, and if you don't, it will be a sign of your bitterness

and insecurity," you are likely to get a negative answer. Far better to say: "Marry me, because I love you more than anyone else in the world."

Here is what Sen. Obama said:

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Here is what Sen. Obama now says he said:


"So I said, 'Well, you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on,' " he continued. "So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That's a natural response."


1. Note how version #1's "cling" becomes version #2's "vote about" and "take comfort from"—as the condescending dismissal becomes empathetic understanding.


2. Note how version #1's "religion" and "antipathy to people who aren't like them" becomes version #2's "faith" and "their family and community" —as fundamentalist xenophobes now become beleaguered folks who band together against the unfairness.


3 Note how version #1's "anti-immigrant" becomes version #2's "mad about illegal immigrants" —as the nativist who opposes all immigrants, legal and illegal, now becomes understandably angry only about those coming here illegally.


4. Note how version #1's "as a way to explain their frustrations" becomes version #2's "they get frustrated about" as the misguided scape-goaters become those who react understandably to adversity.


5. Note no explanation in version #2 for version #1's "anti-trade sentiment"—and no wonder since Obama himself is embarrassed that so far he's voiced far more "anti-trade sentiment" than those he caricatured.


6. Note how version #1's "And it's not surprising then they get bitter" becomes version #2's "your'e" and "you" and "Thats a natural response", as the condescending use of the embittered and distant "they" now morphs into a kindred "you" and the quip "not surprising" becomes the sympathetic "natural."


7. Note how version #1's idiotic logic that Middle-America has only become religious or pro-gun in the last 25 years as a result of job loss is simply omitted.

8. Note how there is sudddenly no "context" for the landscape of version #1: an elite Bay-area audience that is told stories about those Pennsylvanian gun-toting zealots.

[merbex]

45. If there was a tip jar I'd tip you for this post because of the cogent

way you compared and contrasted the 2 statements.

His second statement trying to amend the first hits all the 'correct' notes his very expensive political consultants are there to "clean up"; he is a quick student and they should be proud

Whether it is enough for the General Election only time will tell.

But if we have seen anything proven the past 8 years it is that endless repetition "will make something true even if it isn't"

So says the cynic in me

[haymakeragain]

59. Try to be more wrong, I bet you can't do it.

the whole thing is much ado about nothing. what he said wasn't even quoted in its entirety because if it was, they couldn't milk it with their typical "elitist" horse shit. It's positively Rovian.

What a crock of shit you Hillarious supporters are pedaling. Get a grip.

If KKKarl Rove isn't running Hillarious' campaign I missed my guess.

[IntravenousDemilo]

61. Leaving aside that I think you've extrapolated too much from, and read far too much into, this...

...I think he was right the first time and it was wrong for him to equivocate and backpedal. Of course people are bitter, and rightly so. It would be very surprising if they weren't, considering what they've gone through. And when they feel as if they're lost at sea because the Ship of State has been captained by a drunk for the last seven years, they will certainly grab onto whatever flotsam or rock is available -- in this case, their beliefs -- and cling to it for dear life, just to keep from drowning. Obama never said these people became religious gun-owners who hate immigrants in the last 25 years. They were that way before. He said there has been a situation in place since the Reagan years that has battered these folks around and stranded them, so they find they have to cling to familiar notions and beliefs as being the only stability in a harsh and bewildering world. It's not "elitist" to say this, and it's ignoble of anyone to blame the person who points this out. The person to blame is the drunken captain.

I took it, from Obama's words, that he meant that the neocons who have screwed the voting public over without lube, know that what they do wrong. But they'd just as soon not have the public thinking (or worse, talking) about the throbbing pain in their pants and paying attention to neocon crimes. So when election time rolls around, they indulge in misdirection and patter in order to distract the masses and make them think about what they want them to think about.

The analogy Obama should have used was this: Say you just hate the colour maroon with every fibre of your being. Now let's say you're being robbed and beaten to a bloody pulp by a really nasty guy -- let's call him George -- and then George is pulled off you by a man wearing a maroon jacket. If you're a rational, sensible person (who votes in his own economic and social interest), you'll thank the guy in the maroon jacket and kick George in the nards. If you're one of these economically depressed people who vote Republican because of "god, gays, and guns" and despite the fact that the Republicans have left you destitute, you'll support George even after he's assaulted you repeatedly. Now why would you do something that hare-brained? Well, it's because George has said, "Sure, I just whipped your ass and stole your wallet, but that guy over there is wearing maroon -- MAROON, DAMMIT! And if you were to trust in that logic and not vote for the person who has just helped you and would be more likely to help you in the future, I'd feel justified in saying, "What a maroon!"

That is what Obama meant.

[never cry wolf]

66. a simple Bravo... weel put.

[snooper2]

46. Your handle, 2rth2pwr...

and you still support that Coporate Whore...

Fucking amazing...

[2rth2pwr]

48. I speak truth to those who need to hear it.

[murielm99]

4. I believe someone taped it.

I will listen to the spoken words, read the written text and decide for myself.

[understandinglife]

10. Here it is ... all of it ...

Peace,
Bob

[Triana]

16. unfortunate about the hyena screeching into the microphone...

..hurt my ears. I had to turn it off. Sorry.

Personally, I heard nothing wrong with what Obama said. Gillary (GOP/Hillary - think of a big smelly carp - no offense to carp) decided to make political hay of it with the help of the M$M - digusting but - I guess shouldn't be surprising.

[murielm99]

20. What a nasty post.

It smells like the carp you refer to. How old are you -- twelve?

[TahitiNut]

24. I think the Huffington blog incorrectly identifies Barbara Lee as Sheila Jackson Lee.

:shrug: At least the person performing the introduction sounds like Barbara Lee to me.

[Cha]

6. Thanks, understandinglife..

This is what hilary and the m$$$m are infamous for..parsing words and taking his words out of context.

Since this whole presidency isn't working out then maybe she could get a job along side candy crowley hawking the bushites.

[babylonsister]

8. It's been fabricated from the get-go. THIS is the dirt on Obama. nt

[TahitiNut]

21. Yes. It's a deliberate SMEAR that makes the folks hardest hit "collateral damage" ...

... for the sake of MISLEADING people regarding the character of a candidate that she KNOWS is decent. It's reprehensible and fraudulent.

Instead of honestly competing for the votes on the basis of effective and just economic policies, she blows the dog-whistle and, in effect, flips the bird to small-town voters whose Main Streets are emblazoned with "For Let" signs and whose families are struggling with minimum wage jobs.

She deserves no office of public trust for such despicable lies. She seeks to EXPLOIT conditions, NOT improve them.

[babylonsister]

27. Thank you, TahitiNut. I know you've been

unafiliated, but she is not my kind of Dem.

[TahitiNut]

44. Well, she's not my kind of "progressive" ...

... which is the LIBERAL kind, not the neo-liberal kind. :hi:

:hug:

[IntravenousDemilo]

9. Logically, Obama's hypotheses CANNOT be compared to those made by de Tocqueville 300 years ago.

That's because Alexis de Tocqueville was born in 1805 and was in no position to make comments a century before he was born.

[understandinglife]

13. Hardly the issue ... And, one can easily imagine the author doing ...

... what many folk do which is transpose "1805" into "18th century" instead of 19th ... but you got your gotcha ... good for you ...

[IntravenousDemilo]

23. Well, it's kind of like a big angry zit that mars an otherwise attractive face.

It's not like I disagree with the rest of the article. But he transposed 1805 not into "18th century", but "three centuries ago", which is quite different.

Maybe I'll write him and get him to fix it. A single factual error -- perhaps even a typo -- will always destroy even the best of arguments, as surely as a single drop of ricin will make a gallon of water lethal.

[nichomachus]

58. Only Hillary can do that n/t

[loyalsister]

11. K&R in the interest of truth

[Ellipsis]

14. Transcendent clinch!

Peace Bro

K&R

[bleever]

15. It required a certain kind of genius

to get people to vote against their own interests, and to pass that tendency to the generations they nurtured.

And when someone can look at the landscape, and point out where voters have been treated less like people, and more like cattle boxed into a canyon, where they all need to make the same choice if they have any chance of getting out, and actually make people aware that they don't need to be acting like cows anymore, that's an even better kind of genius.

It reaches out to the innate genius of each person, and reveals the genius of the fearmongers as the power of fear, limited by the interest in an isolated self, while touching the higher genius intrinsic in the gift of consciousness that knows fear and chooses not to elect it the leader.

[understandinglife]

38. "while touching the higher genius intrinsic in the gift of consciousness that knows fear ...

... and chooses not to elect it the leader."

Elegantly stated, my friend.

Thank you :hi:

[bleever]

64. Thank you.

:hi:

[leftofcool]

18. How did she get him on tape if he didn't say anything

[Scurrilous]

29. K & R

:thumbsup:

[2rth2pwr]

31. Excuse me. Hello? Yes, well there is audio, and everyone got to hear it.

The video will be out shortly.

[NorthCarolina]

36. The thing is I think many of us understood his message from the onset

and the fact of the matter is, he is right...folks are bitter across this country and especially in the heartland that has been bleeding blue collar jobs like water through a sieve. Anyone that takes offense with what he said is not doing so for the sake of the comment, but rather for their dislike of the man himself, his race, or his party affiliation.

[haymakeragain]

60. I heard it fine. Hillarious better let go of this one, it's a loser.

Talk about out of touch. That whole "I believe in the diligence and hard work and determination of Murkins just like me" is sooooo fucking tired and pathetic. She's looking bad. She should quit now, and not just this pitiful tactic, the whole race.

Throw in the towel, she's getting the hell kicked out of her, for chrissakes, have mercy on her, and the country. Stop the fight.

[Petrushka]

34. Coleman's report bookmarked to read more closely later. Giving it a quick once-over, the comment

concerning Obama ala Margaret Mead mode left me cold.

No offense meant but, if the Honorable Senator from Illinois is now playing the part of an anthropologist who studied Pennsylvania folks without ever having observed them for any length of time in their natural habitat . . . well, pshaw! Let's just say he might have made a fun playmate back in the late-30s/early-40s when "Let's Pretend" was a favorite radio program for us kindergartners and first-graders.

All best!

[Kurovski]

35. K&R. (nt)

[The Wizard]

37. American politics

under the influence of corporate media is no place for reasoned logical discourse. Our media sucks: wash, rinse repeat, our media sucks. Face it, the United States is the dumbest, laziest fucking country in the civilized world. Third world here we come. Yeee Hahhhh!!!!!

[polichick]

39. Great post - thanks!

[Time for change]

40. Very nice article

It brings a perspective to this whole thing that people ought to strongly consider if they wish to look below the surface.

Fortunately, Obama seems to be weathering it fine.

[understandinglife]

49. Yes.

:hi:

And, thank you for all your cogent writing on a variety of important topics, TfC. I read all of them and have many archived.

Peace,
Bob

[Time for change]

67. Thank you ul

:hi: and :kick:

[progressoid]

41. Unfortunately, referencing de Tocqueville isn't going to convince those offended by him.

Works for me. But I bet 90% of the voting public don't even know that Tocqueville is a person and not a small town somewhere.

[zulchzulu]

42. Yeah, but it was in SAN FRANCISCO and uh...you're an ELITIST!

:sarcasm:

You can tell by the source of the audio, the timing to cover Bill Clinton's ass on his lie about the Heroine of Tuzla lie, reading the full transcript and seeing how McCain and the Clinton machine latched onto it like rabid dogs (and hence feeding the MSM echo chamber) that it was all bullshit.

K&R.

[hisownpetard]

43. I wish everyone could read this. It brings out the quintessence of who Obama is,

the way he searches for solutions and understanding of all sides of a problem, not to
assign blame or figure out a way to "fool" people into voting for him, but to really understand
what issues are involved, what history has done to contribute to the present situation, and how
best to consider all the factors in order to come up with a viable solution.

"More like Margaret Meade than Machiavelli." Perfect!

I'm only sorry I can only Recommend this once.

[AtomicKitten]

47. "insightful, analytical"

The Clintons herd those at the shallow end of the information pool with their lies.

vs.

Barack speaks to people like they are thinking adults.

[northamericancitizen]

50. K & R

[Political Heretic]

51. Of course thats true. But politics isn't about reality. It's about perception of reality.

One of the reasons you don't hear politicians saying "real" and "honest" things is because real and honest things don't fit well into soundbites.

Real and honest things get distorted by political opponents and twisted and spun for faux-contoversy by ratings obsessed media.... the result in this totally manufactured flap.

[Coexist]

52. kick

[BlooInBloo]

53. Smart people talking to stupid people always presents a problem.

[Petrushka]

54. Oh, ain't dat the troot! Especially when the really stupid-uns withhold votes from YOUR candidate.

Drat them ignorant no-class curs and their ornery anal-retentivness!

[BlooInBloo]

56. Couldn't have put it any better myself.

[truedelphi]

55. The more that I hear and read abt Obama the more I realize how he truly

Wants dialogue.

And if this country is not allowed to engage in dialogue, there is really no hope.

Sometimes I think it is too late already. But perhaps the one thing that might save us is having a person as President who believes that "We" can make a difference, not the philosophy governing Clinton - "if you follow, I will lead,"

[RememberWellstone]

57. Before or after the caviar and Merlot?

He's just like "normal" folks, ya'll!

[haymakeragain]

62. You Hillarians keep missing it with the merlot references.

Try to get it through your miseducated, faux blue collar, phoney middle american skulls. Merlot is what you drink, mensa, not us elite.

[DemReadingDU]

65. Thank you, good article!

:hi:

[knixphan]

68. Kicked for my fellow elitists :)

And forwarding