What is Hillary doing?

[calmblueocean]

At this point, I really don't understand why Hillary is staying in the race.

I don't mean that as some sort of insult to Hillary supporters, either. I just don't understand what positive outcome she believes she can achieve by acting the way she is.

Given that she is behind on delegates, behind in the number of states won, and behind in the popular vote...

Given that she's ruined the possibility of a "dream ticket" with her pointed language...

Given that destroying Obama will breed such profound resentment that she won't have the votes needed to succeed in the general...

Given that her right wing attacks damage not just Obama but the Democratic party, and new candidates in every district...


Why is she still running?

* * *

I know the reflexive response from some in the Hillary camp will be to say, "Why is Barack still running?" But Obama is the leader. He's the leader in every category. Hillary had exactly the same chance -- a much better one, really -- to be where Obama is right now, and if she was, and Obama was pulling the same tactics, I'd be writing the same sort of post.

There are a number of negative ways you might spin this. You could say that Hillary is still running out of spite, for instance. Or that she wants to destroy Obama so she can run in 4 years from now. But those would be horribly narcissistic and selfish things to do, things that put her ego and her legacy above the good of the country. I'm choosing not to believe those right now.

To me, she's essentially campaigned her way into a corner.

So why *is* she still running, still attacking Obama? What noble purpose does it serve?

[HughBeaumont]

1. .

I think it's few other reasons, but mostly because it's the whole "if I can't have it, NO one will" thing. I believe she's infuriated that this was supposed to be "Her Year" and that got pulled out from under her. The media is STILL trying to make any slip by Obama stick, but it simply isn't happening. So their only hope, of course, is to make that doddering old bastard McClown presidentworthy. Yeah, let's see how THAT pans out.

[oldtime dfl_er]

2. Um..maybe she thinks she still has a chance

Mathematically she does. Maybe she has a sense that she doesn't want to let people down. She'll get out when it's clear she can't win. Until then let's just sit back and watch, instead of attacking her. I'm sorry but it's my opinion that posts like this contribute to party divisiveness. I know you're going to say that, no, it's Hillary's refusal to step aside that's tearing the party apart, but the party is more than just Hillary. It's you and me and all of us.

[Liberal Gramma]

6. I could buy that if

she was running a campaign to convince voters to vote for her because of her strengths, but she's running a campaign to make Obama look unelectable so she gets the nomination by default. The fall-back plan appears to be to make him lose the GE so she can run in 2012. You and I and all of us don't figure into the Clinton equation.

[K Gardner]

3. Free shots and beer at local bars?

[blogslut]

4. Scorpio

They never give up, sometimes to their detriment.

[Emillereid]

17. I'm a scorpio. Most of us are smart - and frankly I know when to hold them and

when to fold. And in Hillary's case I would have folded a while back for the good of the party and the country. Her stubborn behavior very likely will cost us the election in the Fall - and will mean that nation will continue on a disastrous course for another four years.

It confirms my suspicion that the gods are playing a cosmic joke on humanity - we are facing catastrophic problems and instead of giving us real leaders like Gore or Obama we get Bushit and McInsane.

[1776Forever]

19. Thought you would like to see this - Sure sounds like Hillary ------

Scorpio - Don't Tread On Me

http://www.campusrox.com/zodiacs/scorpio.html

Personality

C'mon, admit it. when someone tells you they're a Scorpio, you get a little scared. A slight chill takes over you, you back away slowly. You're careful about what you say. You don't want to offend them.

Maybe it's those deep, penetrating Scorpio eyes, or that reserved, chilly exterior they wear so well. Whatever it is, you don't want to mess with the Scorpion. You're sure to lose - painfully.

Scorpio's magnetism is majestic and powerful. It's the only sign in the Zodiac that has two symbols - the stinging Scorpion and the soaring Eagle. More U.S. presidents were born under Scorpio than any other sign. They get want they want, and they use any means to get it. It's not in your best interest to get in their way.

They're sharp. They're shrewd. They're sly. Be careful what you tell them. If you offend them, they'll use it later - years later - to get even. They like to watch others suffer. It makes them feel powerful.

Everything about Scorpio is mysterious and seductive. You just know they're guarding some incredible secret. Don't even think about trying to dig it out. Scorpios don't share secrets. Ever.

They would die if you knew it, but Scorpios have a weakness. They overindulge in food, sex, drugs and alcohol. It's the one thing they can't control. It makes them crazy. (The enlightened ones - the Eagles - overcome this through spiritual awakening.)

................

She sure as H does anything to win! Problem with that is it could defeat her at the polls!

And if someone wants to know Barack is a Leo:



http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm

The Leo type is the most dominant, spontaneously creative and extrovert of all the zodiacal characters. In grandeur of manner, splendor of bearing and magnanimity of personality, they are the monarch's among humans as the lion is king of beasts. They are ambitious, courageous, dominant, strong willed, positive, independent, self-confident there is no such a word as doubt in their vocabularies, and they are self-controlled. Born leaders, either in support of, or in revolt against, the status quo. They are at their most effective when in a position of command, their personal magnetism and innate courtesy of mind bringing out the best of loyalty from subordinates. They are uncomplicated, knowing exactly what they want and using all their energies, creativeness and resolution to get it, as well as being certain that they will get whatever they are after. Their followers know where they are with Leonians. Leonians think and act bigger than others would normally dare; the ambitiousness of their schemes and idealism sometimes daunt their followers, their practical hardheadedness and ability to go straight to the heart of any problem reassures those who depend on them. If Leonians meet with setbacks they thrive on the adversity.

[saltpoint]

26. Agree with several others here that paying off campaign debts is a

major motivation, and with you and a few others that it is a Scorpio / hear-me-roar dual diagnosis.

The people who run Democratic Party county organizations, at least the ones of my acquaintence, are much less enthusiastic about Sen. Clinton as our nominee than they are about Sen. Obama. They see heightened registration, greater turn-out, fatter donations, more volunteers, and better results if she is not on the ticket. We have city, county, and state candidates as well, and the county people have the true bird's eye view of that.

Many people for whom the Bush/Cheney Iraq disaster remains the over-riding imperative are not interested in a McCain/Clinton race. They aren't crazy about Nader and they don't like Clinton's refusal to apologize for her vote to support the war and of course they hate McCain's record start to finish generally and on war particularly. With Obama, the new independent voter goes blue. With Clinton, too many of them will go McCain.

Many progressives would jump at the notion of a female president but it is increasingly apparent that they'd prefer another female to Sen. Clinton. If you ran Barbara Boxer at the top of a Democratic ticket, it would scare the bejesus out of the average McCain voter but it would attract indies and progressive Dems by the hundreds of thousands. She would be very popular, IMO.

Pennsylvania, all along, has shown a likely victory for Sen. Clinton. The smallest percentage of victory for her in recent polling is 6%; I've seen it as high as 22%. But On May 6th come Indiana and North Carolina, and I belive Sen. Obama wins them both, erasing any popular vote advantage she might garner in Pennsylvania, and further burying her in the delegate race, thus eclipsing any remaining rationale for her to continue her challenge.

At some point between Pennsylvania and May 7th, Mrs. Clinton is going to have to pack up all those snow shovels and step out the back door.

[smiley_glad_hands]

5. Running cover for republicans.

Thats what she is doing. Its gotta be either her or mcsame. Thats what the real elites in this country want anyway.

[crankychatter]

7. This is like "Why is Bush REALLY invading Iraq?"

if you want my theory... the answer is the same to both questions...

substitute Iran... perhaps neoliberalism, corporatism and the perpetuation of the status quo, with high end PACs dominating our Electoral Process...

[DB1]

8. Don't count out the "dream" ticket It could be that....

This will be his first example of unifying the 2 parties by crossing the aisle and choosing Hillary for VP. Oops, I forgot she's on our side. Anyway it still could happen and this may be her strategy, a win/win for her, get the nomination or give him no choice for VP, he must choose her in order to unify the party.

[AllentownJake]

9. If she becomes VP

Whoever is President better get a food taster.

[IDemo]

16. Sorry, but the nightmare ticket is toast

It was always on shaky ground to begin with. But her actions have made it absolutely a non-starter.

[DB1]

21. Nightmare? yes, but something has to inspire her supporters to support Obama.

[Hepburn]

29. Why?

They appear to be more in line with RW war mongering Repukes. I would never imagine that they are progressives. McCain is much more in line with their political positions.

[DB1]

30. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

11. I think she is fundraising to ease the debts

[Diamonique]

12. She believes she still has a chance

I've been hearing on tv that she and her surrogates have been telling the superdelegates that Obama can't win the general because:

1) He doesn't have the Jewish vote (Florida)

2) He doesn't have the Hispanic vote (New Mexico)

3) He doesn't have the working class vote (Ohio)

4) He's an elitist (Rethug talking point against all Dems)

That's how she hopes to get the superdelegates to give her enough votes to become the nominee. That's why she's still in this. It's not about the voters anymore because she knows she can't get enough delegates from the primaries to help her. This is all a big show and dance to convince superdelegates.

And it ain't gonna work.

Just my opinion.

[calmblueocean]

23. But how does she win if the supers turn their backs on Obama? That's what I don't get.

There will be holy hell to pay if the superdelegates turn their backs on the candidate with the most popular votes and the most states, not to mention the most pledged delegates. Hillary will be reviled! She'll hand the election to McCain if she wins the nomination that way. I just can't believe she doesn't see that.

[samsingh]

13. hillary is becoming revolting - i used to ADORE HER

[grantcart]

14. It has occured to me that they don't have a good way to get out

maybe they would like to get a win in PA and then bail. beats me

[AtomicKitten]

15. It's been over for weeks. His delegate lead is insurmountable.

She has become the annoying guest who has overstayed her welcome and can't take a hint.

[DefenseLawyer]

18. 2012 n/t

[tblue37]

20. She still needs money to pay down her campaign debts. If she gives up now, there won't be any more

donations. I think many politicians go on past their logical drop-out points in a given race--in many different kinds of competitions--for this very reason.

It is also possible, though, that it's at least partly a matter of what I call "bubble-think." It’s akin to group-think, but not precisely the same.

Remember when Gore was running for president, how passionate he was about it, how convinced he was that it was absolutely essential to win. Someone quoted him as saying that if Bush didn't win, he would just go back to his regular life, but that the political "job" of president was all Gore had.

But once the presidency was stolen from him, and after spending a bit of time grieving, he ended up finding true joy and more influence than he had while in elective politics.

I think that running for office--especially when that office is the presidency--can be rather like an addiction, and that while immersed in the process many candidates simply cannot see anything else and cannot think productively about anything else. Furthermore, everyone around them constantly reinforces their monomania.

I think that at this moment, Hillary is not herself. I believe that she is so caught up in this addictive process that she can't listen to her better angels or even to basic logic. I also think that once it is over and she has time to grieve, she will once again become a decent, productive liberal senator. At least that is what I fervently hope. I have admired her in the past, and I want desperately to admire her again. I even think that when she has time to calm down and reflect, she is likely to feel a bit of regret and perhaps even embarrassment about the extremes she has gone to in this campaign.

Try to imagine what it must be like for her. She has worked so hard and done so much, and her whole life has been focused in one way or another on achieving this goal. Leading up to the beginning of the campaign season, everyone considered her the inevitable nominee, and many assumed that after 8 years of Republican misrule, she had a damned good chance of actually becoming the first woman president. And then to have that all snatched away by a young man coming in from out of nowhere like that--of course she is frustrated, one might even say bitter. I just hope that she doesn’t drop out of politics altogether after this is over. I hope that like Ted Kennedy she will come to realize that as a senator, she can truly build a lasting legacy. The Congress is supposed to be a co-equal branch of government with the presidency, and in fact the Founding Fathers intended it to be stronger than the presidency. The desire to be president is, to some degree, an ego thing (for everyone), and a devoted senator or congressperson can do so much for the country. The problem, of course, is that everyone wants to be the one in the history books, the one whose name marks specific periods in American history. Everyone wants to be the king (or queen).

I feel sorry for her, and I think there will be a significant period of grief before she comes to terms with this loss. But I hope that like my hero Al Gore, she will rise from the ashes like a phoenix and end up doing more for the country as a senator, just as Ted Kennedy did, once he realized that it wasn’t his fate to carry on the Kennedy legacy as president, and as Al Gore did once he discovered how much he could accomplish once freed from the limitations of electoral politics, which force one to please everyone else rather than oneself, and submit to everyone else’s agenda.

[Diamonique]

22. Very beautifully said! n/t

[Texas Hill Country]

24. she is behind by around 1 to 2%, why shouldnt she be still running... would you quit? Hell no.

[Hepburn]

27. As you admit: She is behind...

...that means she is LOSING. The issue then becomes: Can she catch up? The answer is: NO.

So...then the ultimate question becomes: Why the fuck is she still in the race? What the hell is she doing?

[invictus]

25. What is Hillary doing? She's destroying the Democratic Party.

The Republican whom she and Bill constantly praise, John McCain, could not do a better job.

[knixphan]

28. hmm.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/carpenter/044