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**********Inside the polls: interesting numbers suggest a pro-Obama shift coming in PA*********

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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:48 AM
Original message
**********Inside the polls: interesting numbers suggest a pro-Obama shift coming in PA*********
Edited on Tue Apr-15-08 11:52 AM by dmsRoar
Not only have Obama’s comments failed to hurt him, there’s potential for much more harm to come for Clinton….actual poll-moving harm. I read through the latest Quinnipiac Poll, which, in addition to its massive size (roughly twice the respondents of many of the other polls, thus a low MOE), provides clues to just how damaging Clinton’s pushing on the issue could be to her. This, for what it’s worth, is ONLY my speculation.

The pollster states, first off, that there is no discernible difference in the polling before and after Obama’s comments. The gap was roughly 6 points through it all (50-44) in Clinton’s favor. That’s bad news for Clinton in and of itself.

But the news is worse. A look inside the numbers shows her support eroding among African Americans (9% loss in a week), women (1% loss in the last week—which, granted, could be statistically insignificant), and men (4% loss in a week). She’s gained 2% with whites (which also could be statistically insignificant). If you’re wondering, college educated voters continue to prefer Obama much more than Clinton; the reverse is true for likely voters without a college degree. (No surprises here.)

Most voters in PA say the most important considerations on which they’ll base their vote are, in this order: “a strong leader,” “trustworthiness,” and “shares my values.” When we consider the semi-manufactured “bitter” story, we can see why this issue at first comes out as a wash.

Now for the potentially gruesome news for Clinton. This will come as a shock to informed members of this board, no matter who you support, because of the perception of PA voters. (This isn’t meant to say whether they’re right or wrong—I’m only talking perception.) In PA, 66% of likely primary voters think Clinton IS “trustworthy.” After all the play her comments/mistatements the last few weeks have gotten, I think this high number speaks incredibly well, actually, for her and her campaign’s ability to weather controversy.

BUT, there is something different this time. Her opponent, for the first time this week, is STRONGLY, REGULARLY, and DIRECTLY attacking her trustworthiness. He’s no longer content to draw distinctions on record and policy, to let misstatements slide, or to soft-peddle Clinton inconsistencies. To be sure, his surrogates have been doing that all along to varying degrees. But now it’s coming straight from Obama, which is important.

Why? Because 74% of PA’s likely Democratic voters (8% more than Clinton) see Obama as “trustworthy.”

In short, the Obama campaign now has its most credible speaker (in the eyes of PA voters)—-Obama himself—-delivering the daily message day after day on Clinton’s untrustworthiness. Voters view Obama as more trustworthy than Clinton in every demographic: men, women, white, black, Reagan Democrats, and union households, even if in some cases the margin is much thinner than the overall number. (These were all the demographic categories that Quinnipiac measured, by the way.)

Now, on a daily basis on the campaign trail, someone very believable (as opposed to talking heads and other politicians) is telling PA voters that someone less believable is really not so believable at all. And that strategy will not disappear as long as Clinton stays on bitterness or likely even after she moves off it. It will be hard to imagine how her trustworthiness numbers do NOT fall, because she’s drawn the most the most credible candidate (in the eyes of PA voters) into what he’s made into a battle over the truth. (As an aside: this strategy comes with costs regarding the possible reconciliation of the Party, of course. If Clinton hadn’t ended any chance for her in the VP slot long ago, Obama certainly hammered the last nail into that idea this week with “Annie Oakley” and “duckblinds” and “firing Penn.”)

There are arguments to make about who seems the stronger leader and whose values voters will identify with given the events of the past week, of course—-and in the case of Obama’s comments I’d suggest the way he’s reframed those comments and defended himself will continue to help him there, too. But I think his own stronger focus on Clinton’s trustworthiness is the absolutely key ingredient. It’s now hard to see how the 6-point gap doesn’t close further, given the importance of “trustworthiness” to the voters of PA.


ed for link: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1168
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. And Obama's Support
IS STILL 37-44%.

This is after a month of campaigning and Radio/TV ads.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Don't forget the relentless witch who's been hounding him
at the expense of the Dem party and their chances in November. I'm sure that factors in somewhere.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sure...
Your attitude reminds me of the little kid in the back of the station wagon during a family road-trip.

"Are we there yet?"

"Are we there yet?"

"Are we there yet?"

"When are we going to get there?"

"Are we there yet?"

"Are we there yet?"

"Pull over! I need a bathroom break."

"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. You tell me. If her last name wasn't Clinton, or if positions
were reversed and Obama was losing by such wide margins, losing states, delegates, popular vote, etc., do you think he would have been "expected" to drop out way before now? Hmmm? You know it. So yes, I'm ready for her to go, she's been putting off her exit for months now. She's damaging Obama and damaging chances for a Dem to win the GE-by giving the rethugs talking points, no less. She disgusts me.
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DB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. If her name wasn't Clinton, and ran on her own merits she was done after Iowa.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. absolutely.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. True that. nt
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Eric Condon Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. If her name wasn't Clinton, she'd be Joe Lieberman. nt
Edited on Tue Apr-15-08 01:07 PM by Eric Condon
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. no one would have given her 100m dollars to run. she's toast. I hear
women are starting to shift away from her. disappointment is their usual response when polled.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. heck yeah, it does.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Drop the "witch" part, please
Sexist slurs against Clinton don't do Obama any favors.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Don't correct me; that's not a sexist slur, it's the truth. That's how
she's acting. If you don't like it, that's too bad.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Not sexist, huh?
Would you use the word "witch" to describe a male candidate who was acting that way?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. You're right; I'd use warlock. But that wouldn't apply to her. This does. nt
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Stop insulting witches!
Most witches are VERY nice people.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Oops! My bad. I'm sure they are!
:hi:
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PetraPooh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. You might try the following term to not offend us witchy women.
Usually someone will say witch when they want to use the b-word but are opting for a more acceptable term. So here is a term that won't be misconstrued and is entirely non-sex related and cannot be called sexist.

b-utt-itch or simply butt-itch
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. 44% is the low mark and he'll climb by April 22
Hillary in tanking - face it.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. He has been stuck in 37-44%Land for 33 days.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Where was he before that? (nt)
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. Like she has been stuck nationally 38-43% since end of March
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Tell me more about
National Primary Day!
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. it happens when the supers vote in June and look at what Democrats want
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:56 AM
Original message
11-07 ...HRC 48% (PA)...Obama 15%.. who's doing better?
:rofl:
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. On a long enough timeline....
He is up 37% since 2002!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. she's been the front-runner, presumed winner since 2000
What's the matter with Hillary?.. Maybe we're just not that "into her".. No wonder she's pissed..


First Bill's not that "into" her, and now her adoring public... poor Hill
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:15 PM
Original message
At least she's not bitter
:hide:

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. ....
:rofl::hi:
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. please tell me youre not really that dumb. clinton was up 20 points a few weeks ago.
a single digit win is a loss.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. I second your speculation...HIllary will pull the "bitterness" ad when she sees its HUGE negatives
K&R
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I Haven't Seen Her Ad Run In Central PA...
Except on cable "news" shows talking about it.
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. maybe they yanked it already?
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. I don't think it was made to run on TV.
If you look at the low production values and slapdash editing, you could make the assumption that they produced the ad strictly for the news stations and the web to show it, in hopes of getting some free coverage.

After all, that campaign's running on a shoestring right now. I don't think you will see it on broadcast outlets as a paid ad any time soon.

- as
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. excellent point
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. But, will people forget the ad once it's pulled? I suspect that they
will be able to remmeber this at least until next Tuesday!
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R nt
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Cool.. I like your analysis... Woohoo!!
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DB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
12.  Great analysis.Could this be the year fear and smear politics quit working?
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. Oh, gawd, please let the SS Titanic Hillary hit a reef and sink!
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. maybe the N Carolina reef will do it?
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wish I could be as optimistic as you. n/t
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Convergence is imminent.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
:kick:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. ********Please, oh please, Mister! Tell me what I want to hear!*********
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. Good News For Obama
Hillary will still probably win by 5% of so and desperatly spin it as a water shed victory despite the fact that she's essentially lost her earlier 20-25% lead. She gains a dozen, maybe 15 delegates, and Obama goes on leading.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
39. Shocking
Seems the only people that think Obama's comments were elitist are...the elites.
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. K. Of course they do (the PA voters). Obama has been nothing if not
consistent throughout his campaign, whereas Hillary has just been all over the map. A new slogan every week, ignoring some states, pandering to others, off on one sound bite after another. Her latest stunts (tipping back Crown Royal, door-to-door campaigning, "shot a duck once") make her look like she's running for Student Body President, not POTUS. How could anyone trust someone who just goes where the focus group winds blow every week?

:kick:
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. exactly--and he's calling her on it himself now
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