Clinging to religion when times get tough: Its a worldwide phenomenon

[stratomagi]

Look, unlike a lot of people here who have lengthy well written posts i'm just not that artful in covering all the points and going on and on in intimate, and well written detail, but I gotta tell you what I know.

What Obama said is true, and the funny thing is it isn't true just here in PA but all over the world. Heres some examples.

Islamic extremists. Where do they get most of these people? These people are usually poor and unemployed and recruited right out of Mosques all over the Middle East. You think you'd be more willing to blow yourself up if you had an education and a career?

Thats a more blunt example, but even in the country I was born, Romania, you see the same phenomenon. I had an argument with some evangelical kids about this in 2003 in Fussen, Germany, (it was actually about whether stealing a loaf of bread if you're starving is a sin or not) and I brought up how in a lot of the rural communities where most of my family lives people are very poor, not well educated, and have a tough time keeping a stable job. You go through these communities, unpaved roads, sometimes no running water, one of my uncles has a well IN his house, houses falling apart, and *DRUM ROLL PLEASE* the most beautiful immaculate church you will ever see right in the middle. These people have trouble feeding themselves at times but the community will invest its resources right into the church, these are very religious people and tend to explain current events or natural phenomena in divine terms. If for example a priest leaves the church it is viewed as a calamity, but going without basic necessities, well thats just how it is.

And Obama is right about antipathy towards immigrants. I said this before in a different post that when I was canvassing western PA for labor in 2006 we had a lot of people, i'd say 1/3 or a half complain about the illegal immigrant problem. The thing is in Western PA we don't have much of an illegal immigrant problem, not compared to other areas of the country and especially not compared to the eastern half of the state. Part of my job as an organizer was to redirect these people to the problem really affecting this area, outsourcing. I mean we're talking about places where just about everywhere is boarded up except the bar and the gas station w/ convenience store! Nobody came to this area to take the jobs away, they left.
In fact one of the few Hispanic people I met in my year of canvassing, was legal, lived in the projects and explained to me how the cops of the small town he used to live in ran him out and told him not to come back or there'd be trouble. He even had Polaroids of his vandalized car covered in swastikas.

You can even see examples of this in Europe. France and Germany have higher unemployment rates than we do, and they have a lot of Turkish and Arab immigrants moving in. In fact i relied heavily on Shawarma stands, which are everywhere in the big cities, whenever I needed a quick snack. Germans are actually quite hostile to the Turkish and even my girlfriend's German friends have said things that are just totally unacceptable, think the worst kinds of racial epithets and stereotypes. I've seen this myself first hand. People I've shared train rides with, met while traveling in these countries, nice well meaning people on the whole, have the worst kind of contempt for these immigrants. Even in Romania we have a similar phenomenon with Turks and Arabs on the Black Sea coast but whats worse is in most of the country how Gypsies are treated. I can't begin to summarize all the horror stories I was told growing up about the gypsies, but the caricature that was painted reminds me of the villain from No Country for Old Men if he could do black magic.

So I don't know if I connected all these things sufficiently but yeah, this is real, its not unique to PA but it is a part of whats going on around here, problem is that many will continue to not recognize this about themselves and their communities, and focus on real ways to fix their communities.

[stratomagi]

1. Shameless self kick before I watch this thread die.

Oh I also did forget to mention the rampant drug and drug related crime problem in the river communities surrounding Pittsburgh, people are clinging to heroin and meth and oxycontin too.

[mckeown1128]

2. kick nt

[Arrowhead2k1]

3. Of course it's true.

It's the entire reason why we have radical Muslims all over places like the West Bank and Gaza strip. They're a perfect example of a bitter people clinging to their guns and religion in the most extreme way imaginable. It's human nature.

[stratomagi]

5. I've been barking up that tree for years

During the 2nd Intifada i would argue incessantly with people that given the proper circumstances they had the capacity to be a suicide bomber. I think a major component is desperation...desperate people tend to be more malleable. I remember reading a theory on global inequality and how revolutions tend to happen mostly in 2 instances, usually out of extreme injustice or extreme poverty.

[RichardRay]

4. The word 'clinging' seems to be the problem for some folks

But, I wonder if they've ever been in a situation where they needed to cling to something? When I was trying to avoid drowning and grabbed a branch hanging low over the water you damn betcha I was clining. When I was in the very low bottom of severe clinical depression I was clining to anything I could find - spiritual practice and appropriate meds were it, not guns, but if I were a gun kind of guy I can imagine that, too.

People don't like the idea that things can get bad enough to drive any of us to clinging, and I think that it's just a matter of time in most lives before the universe strips away enough other stuff that what's left gets clung to.

[stratomagi]

7. Yeah it conjures thoughts of

self help books, fad diets, tarot cards...things people seem to turn to when they have a hard time explaining their circumstance and dealing with it.

The thing is when everything else goes to the shitter people end up seeking comfort in the more reliable aspects of their life, things that make sense and don't let them down. And if theres nothing reliable then you start reaching, sometimes to the things i've mentioned above, and sometimes to worse.

[SoCalDem]

8. It's about security.. Infants cling to their mothers

lovers cling to each other..cliques cling together.. sports teams cling to the team spirit..and each other

even peaches "cling".(sorry couldn't help myself)

but seriously..

When times get tough people CLING.. there's nothing wrong with that word..or the act of clinging..

When you lose your job, your house, your pension, your self esteem, why WOULDN'T you "cling" to what you have left..

People of faith, instead of cursing God for their misfortunes, cling MORE, in hopes that somehow THIS prayer will get answered..

In spare moments, to take their minds off their troubles, hunters WOULD head for the woods, and maybe bag a meal or two or at the very least, tramp around the forest and enjoy some solitude.. What's the alternative? watching tv? arguing with the family over why there's no money for the $100 sneakers or for the $300 electric bill or why there's no money for groceries?

And if you are applying for jobs at places who have employees who are doing a job you think YOU should have or could have, why would you NOT be at least a little bit miffed?

[EFerrari]

6. That's what makes the religious right + RNC so lethal for the people.

The Republicans strip mine the public and the religious right is in place to convince them it's a good idea.