Why do we do this?

[Texas Hill Country]

At this point, it seems like DU has turned into a gotcha game, and no one is convincing anyone of anything.

Does anyone really expect to have their opinion changed by anything that is said on here? Really?


I have been reading DU for a long time, but have only recently joined and started posting. I, like others, have been caught up in advocacy, and if I have insulted anyone, I sincerely apologize.


Can we please stop with all the severely negative comments? It convinces no one and only makes the other side more angry.


Please stop calling Clinton a power hungry, lying, morality free, racist, Republican POS that uses plays out of the Rovian playbook and is tearing the party apart and needs to get the hell out of the race.

It is not true.

Please also stop calling Obama a cult leading, wet behind the ears, elitist, racist, sexist, muslim, corrupt dirty doer.

It is also not true.

It helps no one and convinces only those on the other side to reject the person you support even more.

[Cant trust em]

1. It's pretty masochistic in here

Thanks for the post.

:toast:

[Texas Hill Country]

2. i would say that it has become masturbatory

[nichomachus]

41. It's more like a food fight

[Orsino]

3. We've gotta go negative...

...because our candidates aren't doing much positive (beyond inspiring millions). They are playing it safe, and not making any progressive promises (beyond ending the war). They can only distinguish themselves via gotchas.

[Texas Hill Country]

35. very true. because they have pretty much the same platforms, we are left with BS.

[madfloridian]

4. It is organized

and I intend to post critique of how Hillary is acting.

I went through this in 04, different victim this time.

I don't call names, but I will stand up when there is the same stuff going on as went on here four years ago.

[Texas Hill Country]

5. They have both been bad, lets be fair.

[madfloridian]

9. I am speaking for myself. I am outraged that the Clinton campaign

is attacking not only Obama in such silly ways but that they are trying to hurt the fundraising and stature of the DNC.

I am outraged.

[Texas Hill Country]

with nothing but respect to you, i have a question

really, not a flame, not intended to slam you or your candidate, just asking for your opinion, which I will absorb and respect...

How do you feel about the Clinton's are racist meme that Obama surrogates pushed? Does that outrage you as well? Does it have no effect? Do you think they are racist? Do you think that the Obama camp didnt start the meme?

Just wanting to know what you think. We disagree on a lot, but I respect your opinion because everything I have seen you post has been educated, well worded and not without merit depending on viewpoint.

[madfloridian]

16. I tend not to see racist, I see "politics as usual".

I have not seen a racist theme...I see the Hillary campaign using things that are just unreal. The media, the NYT and CNN both said she was using the GOP talking points about Obama's comments.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1985

Actually her campaign with folks like Wolfson and Penn, and Carville lurking....go well beyond politics as usual.

[Texas Hill Country]

27. so you never noticed the South Carolina racist meme? really? but as for what you said...

And I see that she has used GOP talking points, this is true, but that is only stuff that will be thrown at him full force in the GE...

so, this does 2 things in my opinion...

1. It vetts him before he would run into this stuff in the GE. She hits him MUCH more softly than a GOP 527 would and well in advance of the November elections, allowing him PLENTY of recovery time. I have seen some of the adverts that the GOP 527 groups market tested and they are BRUTAL. He needed it to come out sooner rather than later.

2. It is her saying, look... these are the issues that he is going to run into... don't send this guy up.


For me, while much more blunt and straightforward coming from Clinton, the negative attacks are nothing that Barack wouldnt face at some point anyway, but I, personally, am outraged at the accusations of Racism thrown at the Clintons.

That the Clintons are racist is an invented meme, once again IMO. It is also one that they would not be facing in the GE.

I can understand why you are angry at Clinton, and I don't totally and completely disagree, but I guess I am a bit more forgiving because of the two reasons stated above.

I hope you can understand why I am angry at Obama, even if you don't agree.

[madfloridian]

31. I thought Bill Clinton said very racist stuff after SC

.

[Texas Hill Country]

32. racist or was he talking about identity politics? because they are different

sure, it was dumb of him to say it in public, but was it really RACIST?

[knixphan]

39. not racist

designed to belittle O's victory, but not racist by definition.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. I, for one, agree that the "Clintons are racist" is an invented meme -

but I suggest it was created by the clinton campaign, to create a backlash against Obama. Virtually none of the Obama supporters here have said they were racist - only that they, in a very calculated way, brought race into the campaign to marginalize Obama as being 'just the black candidate' - putting him in the company of Jackson and Sharpton, previous also-rans.

It is, frankly, what I would expect from a campaign run by Mark Penn.

When this started, and up through Iowa, it seemed Obama would be able to run without race becoming 'the issue' - and his overwhelming success in Iowa supported him in that. Hillary's defeat in Iowa, and her squeaker, winning by 3% where she had led by 20%, in NH scared her enough to drag race into it. That doesn't make her, or her campaign, racist. Just opportunistic and morally suspect.

[Texas Hill Country]

13. duplicate

[Texas Hill Country]

14. duplicate

[Cant trust em]

6. It's about reading the right posters

Some of my favorites (from both candidates) are grantcart, rinsd, babylonsister, joshcryer, sfexpat2000. You have to be more selective.

[scheming daemons]

11. I'm jealous..... I aim to be on your list...... the anti-ignores....

..

[Cant trust em]

12. There are too many to name

scheming daemons, you're right up there. I even like some of the most hateful folks who are at least thought provoking. I always clicked on MagsDem's threads before he/she got TS'd. I like reading the opposition so I know how to counter their arguments.

[redqueen]

7. Speak for yourself. I've learned stuff on this board... in this forum.

FrenchieCat was on my ignore list for a while for sayin some stuff about Edwards... but I clear that thing off regularly and I'm glad I did cause it was her and one other Obama supporter (seabeyond, I think?) who educated me about Obama's REAL experience (I'm glad they countered the media's 'empty suit' meme).

As for the namecalling and BS... eh... alert on it. This kind of thing doesn't seem to do much... I've tried it more than once... others have as well. Just try to ignore it.

As for the idea that the BS here will change anyone's votes... :rofl:

Try to relax... :hi:

[Texas Hill Country]

15. I have learned things, but the "HILLARY IS A BITCH" or "OBAMA IS A PRICK" stuff needs to stop.

[redqueen]

18. Yes... and lots of other stuff needs to change, too.

I appreciate your earnest attempt to improve the discourse... let's hope it works better than all the others have.

:hug:

[scheming daemons]

26. Maybe if we switch it around and say "HILLARY IS A PRICK" and "OBAMA IS A BITCH" for a day?

[Texas Hill Country]

28. thanks for the positive contribution

[knixphan]

40. probably not going to be able to reach those who resort to that sort of thing...

- my guess, anyway.

[AllentownJake]

8. The good Site Administrator

Gave us the Ignore function for a reason...use it as you must.

[SeaLyons]

10. Great Post....

Thanks for this post, and all the many I've read from you on this board. I agree with your sentiment and wish the tone on this board would improve.


:toast:

[poplockndropit]

17. this is what it sounds like when doves cry.

[bunnies]

20. That song will be stuck in my head all day now.

:spank: Shame on you poplock!

and welcome to DU. :hi:

[ProSense]

19. Sensing that bitter-gate was a complete failure

Some of the people who jumped all over it and have been posting nonsense about Obama and pretendinig that Hillary's lies don't matter are now trying to appear objective.

[redqueen]

23. Hahahahahahahaha

:P

[Debi]

21. While chastising others do you intend on monitoring your own behavior? n/t

[Texas Hill Country]

30. yes, as I said in the op.

[Armstead]

22. We do it because it's a discussion board

We're all just expressing ourselves, for better and worse.

Like any community conversation it has its' high and low points. Sometimes it's informative and stimulating......And sometimes ya just gotta vent.

[bunnies]

24. Tough Love?

:shrug:

[Faygo Kid]

25. Wow, 1,672 posts since March 5,

You do indeed need to take a break from DU.

[Texas Hill Country]

29. i have a lot to say :-)

[hfojvt]

33. we call them as we see them

The difficulty is in explaining different viewpoints. For some, a straw is just a straw, but for other camels which are already piled with straw, one more straw is a back-breaker. To still others, a single straw looks like a 6 x 6 post. We share our feelings about political events and our feelings about others feelings.

Many of us are in agreement on some of the things you say are not true. Clinton does seem to be damaging the party and our chances, and she has been dishonest about several things and it is hard to find a noble reason for her to do so. She does, however, have some supporters cheering her on, either out of dedication to her or antipathy towards Obama, and both of those are hard to understand.

[Texas Hill Country]

34. Do you not see how the reverse could also be true depending on viewpoint.

you see, for me, I could just as easily put Obama's name into that last paragraph. And I can give good and logical arguments to back it up...

so who is right or is it a matter of opinion and no one is right?


who knows. I am just over the disrespect to eachother and to each persons respective candidate of choice.

[madfloridian]

36. Obama is not hurting the party, he is bringing new people into it.

Hillary is disrupting the process on purpose.

Obama was not supposed to happen. But he did, and Hillary has not dealt well with it.

[Texas Hill Country]

37. you have a point that Hillary has not dealt well with Obama, but I could still make the argument

that Obama has been equally as divisive.