When people write "Obama will NEVER win the general election"

[cliffordu]

Do you think it's because of Bittergate or some other trifle, or do you think it's because the poster feels that an African American can never win because of his skin color???

[SoonerPride]

1. I think it is because Hillary told them to

They get an email of their talking points for the day and dutifully go out and type what momma says to type.

They are good soldiers after all.

[Bluebear]

60. How ridiculous.

[Exilednight]

76. Actually, I get daily e-mails from both campaigns..........

and that's almost exactly what happens.

I get e-mails from Bill Clinton telling me I need to send money to his wife because Obama is spending money and he knows that I'm not bitter.

It's kind of a joke when you really get down to it. All the screaming memes from the Clinton camp is getting pretty old.

[papau]

2. people are religious, hunt, are against illegal immigration because they are bitter?

Obama has dug a hole that makes a certain Dem win 120 days ago into todays big if.

[cottonseed]

He's increasing his lead nationally and closing the gap in PA.

I think he's still doing pretty good.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

5. Obama needs more practice talking to 3-year-olds

Because clearly what he said went WAY over your head.

[TahitiNut]

16. Amen.

Olbermann and Maddow had it right tonight, though. Too bad some folks don't get out their reading primers and chalkboards and attend the right 'schools' to have these things explained.
:eyes:

[cliffordu]

11. I'm suprised you extrapolate all that from what he said,

particularly if you read the transcript of the previous paragraphs. You obviously haven't taken the time to do that so.....FAIL.

[Hepburn]

17. Bullshit. n/t

[Mooney]

19. When was a Dem win ever certain?

It was going to be an uphill climb no matter who the nominee is.

[shadowknows69]

3. Probably in most cases

[cottonseed]

4. Their hearts are dark towards a man taking the nominatin from poor Hill.

They hate the man, and in their twisted little minds believe everyone else does too.

[AtomicKitten]

It means they are pissed that Hillary will never win the GE because she can't win the nomination.

[Imagevision]

6. I believe their misinformed and not very educated...

[Bake]

87. "their misinformed and not very educated"

PRICELESS!!

:rofl:

The word you're looking for is "they're." And I'm one of those uneducated Hillary supporters.

:rofl: :rofl:

And yeah, I'm laughing AT you.

Bake

[SunsetDreams]

7. no I think it's our of loyalty to Clinton

[Imagevision]

29. loyalty to Clinton? like I said; " not very informed and educated... yaaawn.

[ecstatic]

8. The latter of course. The person stating that is most likely racist

and strongly believes that everyone else is too.

I was skeptical at first but he is the better candidate by far and I'll take my chances with him.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

9. Pipe dreams, with no basis in reality

[woolldog]

10. The latter.

If you notice, the posters saying that are generally from the south or have racial hangups themselves. They assume their political environment (or mentality) is representative of the broad electorate.

[TexasLady]

12. damn good question. damn good.

because the issues are 'pert near' the same really..compared to McSame.

[aquarius dawning]

13. Because he isn't winning where and how he needs to be winning

he is winning becasue of red states and caucuses, and red state caucuses and by supressing voters in two states that overwhelmingly support Hillary and which are, historically, battleground states. He is also winning by exploiting the disproportionate support of black voters which will not be an advantage in the GE the way it is in the Primary. He has also lost a number of historically important battleground states and has failed to win in the large true blue primary states. Furthermore, he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning any southern states (Maybe MO but that's a gamble). There are plenty of reasons to believe that he is unelectable in the GE that have nothing to do with his skin color.

[TexasLady]

14. and Hillary is a BIG winner in Texas and other Red States..why?

ALL the repukes want her for the opposition. just sayin..Sorry but..here? Hillary and Bill are synonymous with Jane and Fonda.

Sharks..hungry...lunch.

[aquarius dawning]

46. She won texas. She isn't winning too many other red states to my knowledge

and she won texas because of the Hispanics voters in the primary and she lost it because of the black voters in the caucus. The party will lose it becasue of the white voters in November. I lived in Texas for 10 years. I know Texas and I know Texans. Texas ain't blue except for a small dot in Austin (where I lived and worked and went to school).

[TexasLady]

49. I was being snarky I guess and forgot to say so..

I know Texas too..ugh, I feel sorry for ME and fellow blue Texans..and I live a half hour from..gulp..Crawford!

The good news for me PERSONALLY is that I hear, according to my news station, he's moving up around Dallas..YAY!!!!

[cliffordu]

62. She won Texas like the monkeys flying around my Butt

are going to convince me to vote for McCain.

Get real and adjust your meds, or something.


FAIL.

[TBF]

83. She Lost Texas.

How many times do we need to say it. She lost Texas. I live in Texas as well, and know that it will be tough to win the state in November. Primarily white and extremely religious. Hispanic catholics went with Bush when push came to shove, and with McCain's pandering on Immigration it will be enough to tip it his way.

I will continue to work hard to support Obama here, but it will be a hard state to win. Hillary wouldn't be able to do it either. She would have hispanics, but that's it. If she's on the ticket many blacks sit it out and swing voters go to McCain. I hate to generalize, but that is the way I see it falling out in very basic terms.

[shadowknows69]

64. And Hillary even lost Texas actually

[ClassWarrior]

15. So he's won the states we don't normally win, and not the ones that are shoo-ins anyway...

...and this is bad why??

NGU.

[TahitiNut]

30. The 'logic' is deeply flawed. DEEPLY flawed.

(1) The Democratic Party's delegate allocation process favors regions, districts and states that have voted Democratic in the past. Hello? So ... are those who make the fallacious claim that he's only winning the 'wrong' states actually claiming he's OVERCOME the handicap by picking up delegates where it's more difficult? Then WHY do they ALSO claim Clinton should get more credit for 'winning' the blue states?? Aren't they well enough informed to know that's already baked into her totals? (Dumb.)

(2) Just what says that Obama is more 'conseravtive'? He's not. Further, he's sure as hell not less appealing to the folks in the blue states than McCain. That'd take more drugs to believe than would permit keyboarding, I think. But one MUST believe that to think he'd not carry the blue states like New York and Massachusetts. (Dumb. Box of rocks dumb.)

There MUST be brain damage going around. There must be. :shrug:

[redqueen]

82. ...

:loveya:

[aquarius dawning]

45. he's winning states that we won't win in November by exploiting the caucus system

That doesn't even remotely suggest that he can deliver those states in November. What's more alarming is that a handful of red state caucus goers get to have as much influence in this decision as hundreds of thousands of voters in blue states. How is this representative of the will of the Democratic party?

[PVnRT]

69. What?

The red states he's winning are smaller than than the big blue ones and have fewer delegates. How in the world are they getting "as much influence"? It doesn't add up.

If Hillary were winning the caucuses, would you still be arguing that she's "exploiting the caucus system"? I'll happily admit that I don't like caucuses, but they are allowed, and Hillary has not lost by very much in any of them.

[wileedog]

21. Primaries have nothing to do with the GE

What he did or did not win vs. Clinton means nothing compared to what he will win against McCain. There is no viable argument here.

[aquarius dawning]

43. In battleground states, the primaries do matter

He needs PA, MI, FLA, and OH but it's doubtful he can pull it off given his performance in these states. MO is a big question mark and VA was nowhere near pruple in 2004. His inability to win primary style elctions is also a factor in all of this. I'm sorry but caucuses are nothing like primary elections and his utter dependence on caucus voters to get him where he is is enough in and of itself to question his electability. If nothing else, it forces one to ask the question, "why doesn't he do so well in primary style run offs"? Answer that for me.

[wileedog]

55. He has more Delegates from Primary votes than she does

Look it up.

Most of hers are from the the big ones like NY and CA that he will obviously do well in come the GE against McCain.

Also, I don't think this election breaks along "traditional" lines so much. The amount of new Dem registrations and the primary turnouts have been historic. Between the two of them they are raising $60 million/month vs McCain raising $25 million the entire 1st quarter of the year. It is a clearly demoralized Republican base that has gotten screwed over by Bush, and now have a 'moderate' forced on them.

States like Virginia without a doubt will be in play this cycle, because the backlash is real and McCain is not. I would rather have the candidate with the broader appeal to capitalize on that emotion, and that is clearly Obama.

[ClassWarrior]

22. By the way, if his supposed "unelectability" has "nothing to do with his skin color" ...

...then why do you believe "he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning any southern states?" Because they don't like tall people in the south??

And "supressing voters in two states??" Do you have a link to prove this rather serious allegation?

NGU.

[Mooney]

32. It's his ears.

People in the south hate people with big ears.

[ClassWarrior]

39. I knew it had to be something...

NGU.

[aquarius dawning]

41. because Democrats have a hard enough time winning in the south without all of his baggage.

At least with Hillary, we can probably count on Arkansas and possibly Florida which is more than we can say for Obama.

[Dessalines]

25. Not much more black support then Bill Clinton had.

[aquarius dawning]

48. that's beside the point actually.

[Mooney]

31. The argument that a primary win = a GE win is dubious.

and you actually undermine it yourself in your own post. On the one hand, you claim that he won red states in the primaries, which I assume you feel will not translate to the GE. However, you feel that his blue state losses will translate to the GE.

Both things can't be true. If you believe that his blue state primary losses will automatically translate to blue state GE losses, then it must stand to reason that he will win every red state that he has won in the primary. It also means that Hillary Clinton will lose Illinois, Connecticut and Wisconsin, but will carry Texas. It also means that she will carry Arizona over John McCain.

And so, to reiterate, the argument that a state won or lost in the primary will yield identical results in the general election is dubious.

[Voltaire]

86. Oh, so we better give it to the Inevitable Lady MacBeth then eh?

Jesus H. Christ!!!

[leftofcool]

37. Exactly!

[aquarius dawning]

40. They won't hear it. They have too much invested in Obama to accept such a bitter reality

He'll lose and they'll make excuses and cast aspersions at hillary or scream about Diebold or some such thing.

[jbm]

51. this is the correct answer..n/t

.

[PVnRT]

68. You're making an assumption

Those who voted for Hillary in swing state primaries will absolutely not vote for Barack. It's just plain silly to argue that.

[H2O Man]

18. In my opinion

it is because small minds think small thoughts.

[BlooInBloo]

20. It's never because of race. I know this because white folks tell me so.

[grantcart]

23. See I told you Marge, its because he's left handed.

[BlooInBloo]

26. :P

[AllentownJake]

24. It doesn't bother me

When I donated my first $50 to the campaign in September my friend said he'll never be the nominee. Look at us now.

[Bright Eyes]

27. I'd say it's the Hillary Clinton supporters who are bitter.

[Dessalines]

28. It is a reflection of the mentality of the people they are around.

The average person know 12 people on earth. There concept of reality is largely shaped by the opinions of people within a very narrow circle.

[Beacool]

33. In my case it's because he's inexperienced

and wasn't properly vetted. Therefore, the Repugs are going to have plenty to throw his way.

As I posted before, I had a very interesting conversation this past Saturday with a senior Congressman who said that he and others think that Obama is not electable. He said that the things that a fellow Democrat won't do to another Democrat, the Republicans won't hesitate to use against him.

[Colobo]

34. Obama is more than electable. Let's work hard to make it happen!

[Beacool]

38. We'll just have to wait and see.................

Time magazine has a poll where 32% of Hillary's supporters won't vote for him and 12% are undecided. That's 44% of Democrats and it's not good news for the party. By contrast, 16% of Obama supporters won't vote for Hillary.

[Colobo]

35. Obama is more than electable. Let's work hard to make it happen!

[kwenu]

36. It's because it's all they can offer in defense of Hillary a losing candidate.

As such, there is no truth to it. It is merely political drivel from the desperate.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. It's because they recognize that their candidate intends to make it

a self-fullilling prophecy.

If she doesn't get the nomination she intends the Democrats to lose - and it will be Obama's fault because she was not nominated.

[aquarius dawning]

47. getting your excuses ready I see.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. No, because he will NOT lose. He will completely and thoroughly

kick McCain's scrawney withered white ass. Despite Hillary and the DLC sabatoging his campaign. What the DLC did in 2000 and 2004, they will not repeat in 2008. We are wise to them, now, and will not give them the chance. In doing so he will ALSO destroy the DLC - they can take their fucking third way and go play with themselves, because Democrats can win this without them, and he is the proof of that.

We will get our democracy back.

[Carrieyazel]

59. He's got a hard road ahead of him. And a blowout just isn't possible.

Obama will fight to make it competitive. But there isn't enough real possibilities for him to win. The electoral college was set up hundreds of years ago to stop a wildly popular, grass-roots red-hot candidate like Obama. The EC is not his friend.

[mkultra]

44. they mean ....if hillary has anything to do with it.

she wants Obama to lose so she can run next.

[jbm]

50. it's because they understand elections..

It's a numbers game, and Obama doesn't have the numbers. He hasn't carried the counties needed to win swing states. He doesn't have the percentages in certain demographics to overcome the republican vote in a General Election, and promises of new voters are unreliable. People that are posting 'he'll never win the election' are probably doing so because they actually did their homework.

I'm not racist, I couldn't care less about his flag lapel pin or 'bittergate', and Obama will never win the General Election.

[Carrieyazel]

61. Exactly. He has the electoral college to worry about, and the numbers aren't there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

72. In case you haven't noticed, NOBODY has carried ANYTHING yet.

We're still in the freaking primaries, for gawds sake.

His failure to take this or that from Hillary is NO indication of his ability to take the same turf in the general, when the democrats who voted for Hillary, against him, will be voting for him, against McCain.

Unless, of course, you believe that Hillary voters are all racists who will not vote for a black democrat. Something I refuse to believe.

He has better numbers than Hillary in virtually every catagory, particularly in drawing in the independents. If you really look at the numbers, it is Hillary who has no chance (or at least damned slim chance) in the GE - all the repukes who don't give a damn about McCain will turn out for him to keep the Clintons out of the WH.

[defendandprotect]

53. I said that at least once here . . . it was fear of the right-wing ---

however, I've also learned that the African-American community was quite concerned in that same regard ---

Courage!!
But -- so much has been lost to us in wonderful, talented people, it's hard not to think about it ---

[5thGenDemocrat]

54. It's not just the Democrats who are "bitter"

It's worth noting, coming up to the general election season, that my old buddy Andy the Right Wing Republican has already told me on numerous occasions that he intends to sit the Presidential election out (he absolutely, positively cannot STAND McCain). For years, my vote has canceled his vote -- this year, it won't have to.
John
My point is that, if Andy's not going to the polls in November, there are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands -- if not millions -- of Republicans who feel the same way. Of course, with the Obama/Clinton catfight presently going on and the possible long term hard feelings resulting from it, there may well be just as many Democratic not votes not canceling those Republican not votes.

[PVnRT]

70. Where have you been hiding?

I've heard the same thing from a couple of wingers around here as well. They HATE HATE HATE McCain, and if they do vote, will likely go Libertarian.

[5thGenDemocrat]

75. Where have I been hiding? Under my rock, of course

I didn't mention that the reason Andy's against the guy is because McCain's too liberal, so I'm pretty sure that there isn't going to be any crossover voting on Andy's part. Still, a no-vote works in our favor -- especially if, as you allude to, it's a trend and not just a curiosity.
I know it's a long haul from your place to mine, but FUNDAY XIV is June 21 up here in Saginaw. It would be great to see you and Davsand and Kevsand (and even better if Kheph could show up but, alas, that ain't gonna happen). Hope all is well with you and I'll be around -- tossing out the occasional pot shot around here. Be well, buddy.
John
And Polly says "hi" and sends her love.

[Hoof Hearted]

56. Why was this SO DAMN predictable?

Couldn't POSSIBLY be because of Obama, could it? OH NO.

Lapel

Michelle (never been proud)

National Anthem

Typical white person

Wright

Michelle (downright mean)

Rezco

Michelle (It makes you feel justified in your own ignorance... That's America.)

William Ayers




I know I'm leaving stuff out, but you get the idea. He's unelectable. That doesn't make me happy. It makes me sad.

[Mz Pip]

57. It's because they are psychic.

That's the only explanation because no one really knows who will win the GE unless they are psychic.

[Carrieyazel]

58. Look at it strategically. Obama can't win enough states to win in the fall.

He has a shot to flip, at most, two or three states that went R in '04. Iowa, Colorado (maybe) and New Mexico (maybe if Richardson is the VP).

He'll have a GE struggle to hold on to Pennsylvania and New Hampshire. The optimists have fantasies about him winning North Carolina, Virginia, Missouri and even Kansas. He won't win any of them. He may make them interesting, but still a loss. He can't win Ohio or Florida, and no other states are possible for him outside the Dem base.

[ClassWarrior]

63. So where do you order your crystal balls?

www.crystalballs.com?

NGU.

[PVnRT]

71. Prove that Hillary CAN win PA, NH, OH, FL, etc.

[Carrieyazel]

74. Hillary can't win NH, OH or FL either. She could win Pennsylvania

if enough Dem voters in the Philly area and Pittsburgh come out for her in the general. Obama could also win PA in a general. He may have a more difficult road to get PA, but I like PA going Democratic for the fifth consecutive time with either nominee.

[tekisui]

65. They are defeatists. And, bitter that Queen Hillary ran a piss poor campaign.

[quantass]

66. An article says: They feel it's her time - He's "stealing" what's rightfully theirs...

There was a link to an article a couple weeks back which tried to explain the Clinton supporter. It was an interesting psychology read. From what i recall it basically said that they (mostly women) have connected with Hilary and attirbute most if not all faults she's had to male oppression and now its her time to run things. She has put in the time and effort and is deserving. Now with Obama coming in, the man is once again taking away what she has earned, and worst he is a relative new comer. It went on to say, they dont hate Obama on his issues or arguments, they just see him as this nuisance or male obstacle in their way to whats rightfully theirs.

[knixphan]

80. I hope they back Boxer in the future...

[NJmaverick]

67. They write that, because they are trying to improve the standing of their lesser candidate

[Lucky 13]

73. I don't think they mean it at all.

It's just a shallow attempt to damage our candidate. He can and will beat McCain and sane people know that.

[crankychatter]

77. They want US to believe it might be true... e.g., "I'm for Obama BUT" threads

sneaking in under the "ignore" radar, directed at US

it helps her so they say it

it doesn't matter if they believe it or not

[knixphan]

78. half/half.

Some folks are just loyal to the opposition (I lump Hill and McSame in one category now)

Some are unaware of their 'inner bigot', and will deny it to their grave.

[invictus]

79. Obama beats McCain easily. People will choose the optimistic future (Obama) over the past (McCain)nt

[redqueen]

81. Skin color. (nt)

[Terran]

84. No one ever seems to be able explain WHY

they think he can't win...so I always chalk it up to your third choice. "He can't win" = "I'm a closet racist."

[TBF]

85. It's the color of his skin pure and simple -

Hillary has managed to ride on the racism ticket for quite a ride. If he were white we wouldn't even have this thread - she would have dropped out already.

[Bake]

88. Nice framing there ... are those REALLY the only two options?

I don't think so. But the Obots are all primed to blame it on racism when he loses in November.

Bake

[jackson_dem]

89. Nice push poll question. His low electability is due mainly to his inexperience

He is also a wet dream for swiftboating by the rethugs, far more than Kerry or Dukakis were. He is not unelectable because of his race. That is as inaccurate as saying anyone who thinks Hillary is unelectable believes that because she is a woman.