A very small idea about how we may begin to make baby steps towards reconciliation in GDP:

[Bonobo]

Speaking for myself, when confronted by a group or crowd, I feel one way (overwhelmed? Bullied? Bolstered? etc.)

But when dealing with an individual that I have at least SOME BASIS for a trusting relationship, I can be more conciliatory and flexible and listen better.

Think of it as a way of cutting through the cognitive dissonance.

On all of GDP, there are only one or two posters from the "opponent's side" that I currently feel I have such a relationship with. Perhaps there would be more if I thought about it, or searched the forums for such a person. But anyway, it is a personal thing. The point is, hopefully we all have at least ONE PERSON from the other side that we know to be objective and fair.

Now, for the "plan". It isn't really a plan, but I just want to share the idea that maybe, by speaking in further depth with one's "trusted opponent"m we can each reach for a little more nuance in our understanding of our opponents. Maybe share PMs or just focus on a good, mutually helpful dialog with JUST THAT ONE PERSON for a spell. I think maybe it could be a way to begin. Is there anyway DU could facilitate such a dialog I wonder.

You see, the Hillary supporters are very outnumbered here. It is brave of them to stay here and face day after day of being outnumbered and beaten down. While we, on the other side, become more and more emboldened in our attacks, bolstered by our large numbers. This isn't a very nice situation.

Now, I know I have no right to even suggest this thing since I am admittedly a very partisan poster. Still, I am not without a heart and sympathy. But more importantly, I feel that we will all need to join together soon whoever is the winner and we may as well be ready to pivot. To do so, we will need to learn to walk before we can run. Think of this as a baby step.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Good luck with that.

You have to realize there are a lot of trolls among us...on both sides but mostly Obama's side, imo.

[Bonobo]

2. But that's why it is perfect. Individual trust relationships mean that Trolls could not do damage.

If you have known someone for years here, you know they are not a troll, right?

I'm just saying, let's break down into one on one talks (maybe by PM even?) and start to REALLY TALK to our friends before we YELL at the people here we don't know.

You for example, we have no such relationship and so it is "easy" for us to think the very worst of each other -for no reason.

For all I know, I would LOVE you if I met you. Maybe we would be best friends. But we will never know because we have assumed these oppositional roles.

Do you know what I mean? Couldn't we break it down if we knew and trusted each other just a tiny bit more?

[myrna minx]

99. You know what? While we may not be online friends, per se, I remember you

from the H2O man threads during the Plame /Libby investigation and trial. WHile we both swooned for Fitz, I always respected your thoughts about the case. I think that is the connection that the OP is talking about. :hi:

[Bonobo]

105. That's exactluy what I mean. Now if Catgirl25 will respond and you can start a dialog

that would be more valuable than a day of bashing people here, I think.

[rwheeler31]

3. Thank you, good idea respect all.

[AllentownJake]

4. My plan in PA

This is outside DU however there is a Hillary group in my hometown. If we win the nomination I plan on inviting her core group of supporters (the super volunteers) over to our office where they will be treated like incoming royalty. We will say a lot of postive things about her and talk about what a great race she ran. Than we will ask them to join us. After feeding them and complimenting them. From there we will work our way down.

That's my plan...don't know if it is going to work but it doesn't hurt trying.

[Bonobo]

5. Sounds like a wonderful idea!

[UALRBSofL]

122. Your lucky your state counts

Where I live we only have one office, that's McCain's office, and he actually has 10 offices in my state. Of the voters here in my town, looking at the voter turnout in our primary and the list of donors it's mostly Clinton supporters. My county has voted overwhelmingly Republican for as long as I can remember. When I look at the candidates web sites, I look for upcoming events and it's McCain that has events. Those people having the fund raisers for him, I do not care for so I guess this election cycle will be non eventful where I live. I got so sick of seeing almost every vehicle with "W" stickers till I couldn't stand it. Finally people realize those stickers are outdated and I don't see them any more. I was beginning to thing they were going to be a permanent fixture.

[TexasLady]

6. Which is why, out of several hundred supporters for Obama

there are, like Hillary's supporters, just a handful of shit stirrers.

Most of us at DU DO know the deal...It's Democratic Underground..and we get mad fast and we get glad fast..we don't have a common enemy yet here in GDP, because we are still rooting for our own. We all know in the back of our minds that McCain is the Same...but we are all SO passionate about our personal choices for our Nominee..

Fool us once, Repukes, shame on ...now how did Bush fuck that one up? We won't be fooled again? :P lol

My first choice was Kucinich..in fact I was for him in 04 as well.

Im one of the unpopular folks that will actually be behind the nominee no matter what..yeah I hate repukes that much...

So Yeah, I want to see the crap end..but it won't..not until someone is the representative for our party..we all should be humble enough to accept whomever that is. I would wager only a small percentage will actually just 'go away' when that finally happens...

and finally..heart and sympathy are what makes Dems what they are..they are good like that. :D

this is supposed to be a 'partisan' kinda place.

[Bonobo]

9. Yeah, I know what you mean, but asking people to make an immediate change

is tough. Wouldn't it be nice if we could soften it up a bit first?

[TexasLady]

11. It sure would..but

time heals all wounds..and wounds all heels..:P
I have so much faith in our party..we NEED each other..we really do.
Time, folks..time.

Im biding mine..and thankful for the amount Im given each day.

I'll take 50 pissed off Dems to even ONE stupid repuke ANYDAY of the week!

[MichiganVote]

7. I'm thinking Israel and Hamas have a better chance than Obama vs. Clinton supporters

[Auntie Bush]

22. Hillary supporters don't hate Obama.

We are sick and tired of the unfair Hillary bashing, lies and exaggerations and we're fighting angry. Who made us that way? Not Obama...his supporters did that job for him.

If you want peace and harmony around here...all you have to do is stop all the anti-Hillary threads. Except for the Wright and bittergate incidences
Hillary posters mostly defend Hillary...while Obama supporters post hateful comments, lies and right wing talking points about Hillary and force us to defend her..with more hateful comments. That's what all the acrimony is about here.

I really bet if you stopped posting anti-Hillary threads the two side could come together quite rapidly. See, I've already started to communicate. :hi:

[Bonobo]

24. But you can't expect EVERYONE to do that at one time realistically.

Also, bear in mind that it is easy to notice the negative Hillary threads, but impossible to notice when others have ceased to write negative threads. You know what I mean?

[Auntie Bush]

29. That's a good point.

Hmmmm. Let me think about it. :eyes: :think: :hi:

[Bonobo]

30. We have all sorts of stuff in common!

Wes Clark, gardening, Vermont!

:toast:

[Auntie Bush]

35. I hadn't noticed you were from Vermont!!!!!!!! Aren't we lucky?

:hi: There are not many of us here. Glad you pointed out we have a lot in common. Actually we probably have only one big difference...but we both want it to be better. :hug:

[Bonobo]

37. I'm in Western Massachusetts. We feel more bonded with VT than with Eastern Mass.

No question about that in my mind. In fact, if you would accept us, we would gladly join your state!

[Auntie Bush]

40. Maybe we could just extend VT boarders due south...all the way

to Connecticut. You'd be welcome! Then you could join in on our impeach bush* campaign.

[Bonobo]

42. I wanna live in Brattleboro and arrest that cross-eyed little punk-ass bitch.

[MichiganVote]

28. But I am neither anti-Hillary or anti-Obama. I'm worse...

I am pretty much apathetic after the last 8 years

[Dinger]

33. Good Point Auntie : )

And I agree whole-heartedly. :hi: :thumbsup:

[Bonobo]

34. So Singer, is there any Obama supporter you have a good relationship with currently?

[Dinger]

38. I'm Not Sure

I don't feel particularly hateful toward Obama supporter. I'd be more interested if any Obama supporters feel that way about me.
It's gotta be a 2-way thing. Just reminded me of a quote: "A smile takes two people.":)

[Bonobo]

41. Well, as for me, I haven't built any positivity or negativity towards you.

So that is good in a way, but perhaps not enough for you and I to -as of yet- be able to really trust each other on much.

There's an interesting thread going on that says "DESCRIBE OBAMA IN ONE WORD". In a way, it's nasty, but in a way it's good. It could start dialog.

So, what one word would you use?

[Dinger]

45. I Saw That, But Couldn't Sum It Up In One Word

So I didn't respond. If I can think of something, I will post it.

[Bonobo]

46. No, come on, me and you right now.

Give me one or two words. Please. It's an exercise I am trying. An exercise in communication.

You and me need maybe 10 minutes of communicating to do this. Maybe less.

[Dinger]

Honest Answer? (Not Inflammatory) (nt)

[Bonobo]

49. Huh? Is that the description? "Non Inflammatory"?

I maybe misunderstood. Was that the word or are you asking me if it is okay to be blunt?

[Dinger]

50. No, Just That I'll Give My Honest Answer, And Won't Flame

I did have a word come to mind, but I'm not sure how it'd be received here.

[Bonobo]

51. Can you PM me please.

Total honesty please and I will tell no one.

[Dinger]

52. O.K. (nt)

[Bonobo]

54. OK, I got it. I think that is a COMPLETELY FAIR thing to say.

And one that could easily be discussed.

[Dinger]

55. Here Goes Nothing:

A word came to mind, but I wasn't sure. The word was "untested," but maybe "relatively untested" would be better.

[Bonobo]

57. OK, so now I think that doesn't really require further explanation. Is there anything

else you want to add that would help me see HOW you feel about that untested quality? If not, I will proceed to ask a couple of questions.

First question: What do you think is the worst thing that could happen as a result of his untestedness?

[Dinger]

60. Not Much To Add

His "untestedness" could hurt in the GE. To what extent, depends on the nastiness of the campaign, which looks like it could be pretty rough, and relentless too.

[Bonobo]

63. Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to it being trouble if he were to become President...

So you are pretty much, at this point, more worried about the GE than other stuff.

As in "First we gotta win" Is that about right?

Or do your concerns about his untestedness really reflect larger fears over him as POTUS as well?

Thanks.

[Dinger]

65. POTUS, To A Lesser Degree (nt)

[Bonobo]

69. OK...

Is there anything, in particular, that, if you saw it, you would be able to feel more confident. Maybe surviving a crisis in the campaign or something?

Or is it impossible due to the fact that he simply does not have enough miles on the car yet?

In other words, is it something that you see that he is missing? Or is it something that you have not yet seen evidence of in him?

[Dinger]

83. I Guess It's Like This For Me:

Probably more of an "enough miles" issue for me. In my opinion, Hillary would hold up better because of her experience. Is she the "perfect" candidate for me? No, but as I've stated here before, it was a fairly long process for me, and for many reasons, I decided that she "earned" my vote.

P.S. It's getting pretty late here, so I think I'll turn in for the night. I'll check in tomorrow.

Dinger

[Bonobo]

87. Good talking to you, Dinger!

Sleep well.

[TheDoorbellRang]

8. I've had some pleasant interchanges with Hillary supporters

Unfortunately, I tend to negate any good accomplished with bursts of snark. At this point I'm just hoping things calm down by the end of May. I can say my skin is much thicker these days. I had an ignore list of 30+ posters (first time I used ignore feature ever) back in January, and now I'm down to just five.

There's several Hillary supporters that I like quite a bit, and I do appreciate their input. They've listed some things I've explored for my own edification about Obama that I wouldn't have discovered on my own.

[Bonobo]

10. Sounds like you have learned from those Hill supporters. That's great.

[TexasLady]

12. I concur

a tempered balance is always a good thing.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. Chicken nugget, or Meatball?

[Bonobo]

14. Please explain that joke. I'm medicated right now.

[goldcanyonaz]

15. Here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5521997

[Bonobo]

17. So it sounded like a ridiculous post to me.

If they served Mcnuggets and Meatballs at some dude's house as opposed to filet mignon at a dinner with Bill Clinton, it makes perfect sense to me and there was no reason for the OP to say that Hillary is an elitist for that reason. Pretty dumb point if that was what they were trying to make.

Now...what about my idea?

[goldcanyonaz]

19. So, you don't like meatballs. huh? I fucking love meatballs.

[Bonobo]

20. Italian or Swedish?

[goldcanyonaz]

21. Italian, of course. wtf is in thems Swedish ones?

[Bonobo]

23. Here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meatball

* In Afghanistan, meatballs are used as a traditional dish with homemade soups and now meatballs are grilled on top of pizza.
* Albanian fried meatballs (Qofte të fërguara) include feta cheese.
* In Belgium, meatballs are called ballekes or bouletten in Flanders and Brussels and boulettes or boulets in Wallonia. They are typically prepared with tomato sauce or a gravy and served with french fries, potato croquettes or steamed potatoes.
* In Portugal and Brazil, meatballs are called 'almôndegas' and are usually fried and served with spaghetti.
* Chinese meatballs (specifically, a dish common in Shanghai cuisine) are most often made of pork and are usually steamed or boiled, either as-is, or with the addition of soy sauce. There are meatballs called Lion's heads, a specialty from Shanghai. These can range in size from about 5 cm in diameter to about 10 cm. Smaller varieties, called pork balls, are used in soups. A Cantonese variant, the steamed meatball, is made of beef and served as a dim sum dish. A similar dish is called the beef ball and the fish ball is yet another variety made from pulverized fish.
* Danish meatballs are known as frikadeller and are typically fried, and they are usually made out of ground pork, veal, onions, eggs, salt and pepper, these are formed into balls and flattened somewhat, so they are pan ready.
* In Finland meatballs (lihapullat) are made with ground beef or a mix of ground beef and pork, mixed with breadcrumbs soaked in milk and finely chopped onions. They are seasoned with white pepper and salt. Meatballs are traditionally served with gravy, boiled potatoes, lingonberry jam, and sometimes fresh pickled cucumber.
* In Germany, meatballs are called Frikadellen (in the North, from the Italian frittatella) or Buletten (in the East) or Fleischpflanzerl or Fleischküchle if you happen to be in the South. A general term for meatballs is Hackbällchen.
* In Austria, fried meatballs are called Fleischlaberl.
* In Greece, fried meatballs are called 'keftedes' and usually include within the mix onions and mint leaf. Stewed meatballs are called 'yuvarlakia'.
* In Bulgaria, meatballs are called 'kyufte' and are usually made of a mixture of beef and pork with breadcrumbs and sliced onions. Many other variations exist including different kinds of meat and chopped vegetables.
* The "chiftele" and "pârjoale" from Romania are usually deep fried and made with pork or poultry, moistened bread and garlic. "Chiftele" are smaller and with more meat. A crude, plain meat variant is used for sour soup, making "ciorbă de perişoare".
* In Iran, several types of meatball are consumed. If they are cooked in a stew, they are called "kufteh" (Persian for minced). If they are fried (typically small meatballs), they are called "kal-e gonjeshki" (literally "sparrow's head"). Both types are consumed with either bread or rice. Typically herbs are added, and in kufteh's case, usually the meatball is filled with hard boiled eggs or dried fruits. There are several (at least 10) types of kufteh. The most famous is "kufteh tabrizi", traditionally from Tabriz in north western Iran.
* In Indonesia, meatballs are called 'bakso' which are usually served in a bowl, like soup, with noodles, beancurds (tofu), eggs, 'siomay', and/or fried meat.
* In Italy, meatballs are known as polpette and are generally eaten as a main course or in a soup.The main ingrediants of an Italian meatball are: low fat beef and or pork and now turkey, salt, black pepper, garlic powder, olive oil, romano cheese, 2 raw eggs, bread crumbs and parsley, mixed and rolled by hand to a golf ball size.
* The Japanese hamburger steak hanbāgu is based on similar ingredients.
* In Norway, meatballs are called kjøttkaker ("meat cakes") and resemble Danish frikadeller, but they are usually made from ground beef. This dish is traditionally served with boiled potatoes, gravy, lingonberry jam and/or stewed green peas. Some people also like to add fried/caramelized onion on the side. As in Denmark, Swedish köttbullar (meatballs) are widely popular.

Almondigas
Almondigas

* In the Philippines, meatballs are called almondigas or bola-bola and usually served in a soup with rice vermicelli called misua, toasted garlic, squash and pork cracklings.
* In Spain and Latin America, meatballs are called 'albóndigas,' derived from the Arabic 'al-bunduq' (meaning 'hazelnut,' or, by extension, a small round object). Albóndigas are thought to have originated as a Berber or Arab dish imported to Spain during the period of Muslim rule. Spanish albóndigas can be served as an appetizer or main course, often in a tomato sauce, while Mexican albóndigas are commonly served in a soup with a light broth and vegetables.
* In Sweden köttbullar (meatballs) are made with ground beef or a mix of ground beef and pork, mixed with breadcrumbs soaked in milk and finely chopped onions. They are seasoned with white pepper or allspice and salt. In Sweden, Swedish meatballs are traditionally served with gravy, boiled potatoes, lingonberry jam, and sometimes fresh pickled cucumber. Swedish meatballs are served at the cafeteria at most IKEA locations around the world. In the United States there are a number of variations, based on the assimilation of Swedes in the Midwest. A common side is egg noodles, throuhg it tends to be an item for buffets and smorgåsbords. <1>
* In The Netherlands, a meatball goes by the name 'gehaktbal' ("chopped (referring to the meat) ball") and is often served with boiled potatoes and vegetables. This combination has been the most common dish in Dutch households throughout history.
* Turkish cuisine features more than 80 types of meatballs (köfte), most being regionally made. In addition, Turkish-style meatballs are made throughout Middle Eastern cooking, often with a localized form of the Turkish name attached.
* In Hungary, as well as territories from neighbouring countries where Hungarian is spoken, a meatball goes by the name 'Fasirt' or 'Fasirozott'(fuh-sheert or fuh-shee-roh-zoh-t) probably coming from Austrian German 'faschierte Laibchen'.
* In the United Kingdom, faggots are a type of spicy pork meatball.
* In the United States meatballs are commonly served with spaghetti as in spaghetti and meatballs, a fundamental dish in Italian American cuisine and coming out of 19th century southern Italy. In American practice, they are usually made much larger than in Italy. In much of Italy, meatballs are traditionally served alone instead of with pasta, and the idea of eating them together on the same plate is found bizarre by most modern-day Italians because it would be a mixture of a first course with a second course. The dish is considered obsolete in traditional southern Italian cooking by the early 21st century.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Symarip]

16. I'm semi-new

And I'm sure I'm on quite a few ignore lists by now but I want to get this out to anyone who reads it, whomever you support.

I like the fact we're different and exchange ideas.

I don't think anyone should hold back anything, just don't make it personal. I try not to and I don't hit below the belt. Stay on issue, and make it about the candidate or the position, not the person.

Fuck 'let it sink' and the ignore function. Every opinion matters even if you or I or they discredit it. That's part of the fun. It'd drive me nuts to post on a board where everyone is the same.

Most importantly, I've learned more in heated debates on this board than I have roaming around the internet trying to figure out what's real and what's false.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see what the problem is. Go back and read my posts: I'll vote for any candidate that's got a 'D' next to it. So if someone is going to pull the victim 'now I'm going to vote for McCain' bullshit, I say fuck em in the ear.

We're Democrats. We stick together. We will win this Fall.

[Bonobo]

18. Yeah, but some supporters post stuff they don't even believe. Lots do, I think.

Anyway, I am not saying people should not discuss reasonable differences. On the contrary, those are the ONLY things that should be discussed -so I agree with you.

It's in order to lessen the venom here that I suggested what I did.

We need to start viewing each other as colleagues again.

[Auntie Bush]

25. "We need to start viewing each other as colleagues again."

Yes, but we need it to start right away...not after the primary is over!

[Bongo Prophet]

68. We have already started, Auntie bush! I am honored to be your colleague.

You are spot on, we need to do it NOW, and not wait. Now is all we have, really. :hi:

Gardening, huh? I am such a procrastinator, I don't even have my tomatoes in, because I need more soil and stuff just keeps getting in the way. I can barely keep enough overgrowth cut to feed the goats. A lazy gardener is often a bad one. ;)

[Bonobo]

71. I plan on renting a roto-tiller maybe tomorrow or next day. Have either of you used one?

I really want to enlarge the garden!

Gonna take doen some overhanging trees for more light and really go for it. Expensive to cut down trees though... ;(

[bhikkhu]

101. Great plan!

I have a tiller someone gave me, but I am fond of the slow old shovel and hoe. Never used a tiller, but I enlarged my garden quite a bit this year. My favorite and effective method is to plan in fall. Find some neighbors with big trees and get them to give you the leaves. Spread a good foot of leaf mulch over the areas to be made garden and let it sit over winter. By early spring (now, in my part of the country), you will have a few inches of leaves left and a rich worm-full layer of soil underneath. Dig it all in as soon as it is workable and let it sit a bit, water if things are dry, and you will have some fine soil for planting. I think of it as a victory garden like my grandmother grew, and come what may we will sure need it, food prices and all.

What kind of trees, by the way?

[Bonobo]

103. They are damned locusts. Black locusts I think. They grow by those root thingies,

whadda ya call them? Ribosomes? Come up all over the place all the time. Hate the invasive bastids. So tall (and kinda ugly)

Anyway, that sounds like a great way to do it. I will do that next year.

Goodnight for now. Nice talking to you. Please remember my name. What does your handle mean? It is hard to remember without knowing that...

[bhikkhu]

107. LOL - I have locusts too

They burn well, if you have a woodstove or fireplace. And they were planted widely at one time as rot-resistant fence post fodder...I couldn't tell you how to get rid of them though.

I studied Buddhism quite a bit at one time, and the word means "wanderer" generally in Sanskrit or Pali (with different romanizations). In Buddhist context it usually means a seeker of truth. But I can say realistically that I am a lapsed Buddhist, as I was at one time a lapsed Catholic (by upbringing). Politics and gardening still remain, and a well-grounded handle provides at least some discipline against irresponsible rants and late night flame-fest participations.

[Bonobo]

119. Bhikku = Wanderer. Okay, I got it.

Thanks, Pilgrim!

[Bongo Prophet]

109. Go for it, if you have the upper body strength and not too moist a soil (important!)

If your soil is too moist or heavy clay, it is a mess, but if a spade full crumbles up easily, it's butter.
Go through once and then spread some compost, turn it again, and you are pretty well there.

We live in Texas, and on a hill with 6 inches before hitting rock, so we have to build UP, container and square foot style.
Hence the need for more soil here - going for squashes, cukes, basil and tomatoes, maybe some beans and a few others, but not too big or it gets overwhelming. Luckily, we have tepin peppers popping up all over the yard already, on their own, and a few that we weathered over the winter. useful little things for Mexican, Thai and Indian cuisine.

I hear ya on the expense of cutting trees - hard work to do it yourself, but if you need firewood anyway, it's a bonus. Invite a friend for chainsaw party. No drinking until after, of course... Good luck on that!:hi:

[Bonobo]

118. Thans, Bongo. That is all great advice.

In fact, I just got a woodstove last year, so thats good.

A strong upper body is one thing I am blessed with fortunately.

[juajen]

88. I think fucking in the ear belongs in the lounge.

Have you visited there? It's quite fun.

[Symarip]

104. Ear fucking is one of those taboo subjects

You wonder if it exists... But you don't really want to know.

[Bonobo]

26. So does anyone Hillary supporter want to be my "trust buddy"?

[grantcart]

31. What about Bob?

baby steps in the elevator


ok I pick goldcanyonaz

[Bonobo]

32. OK! FIRST TRUST TEAM = GRANTCART/GOLDONCANYONAZ

Hurray!!!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[Vattel]

36. any effort in this direction is a plus

I'm pro-Obama and pro-Clinton and I've switched sides a few times which is easy to do when you're on the fence. It doesn't take any guts to anonymously post insults. I'm not sure why so many people waste their time doing that. I posted some negative remarks about Obama once, and some Obama supporters just threw insults at me, but others actually addressed my concerns and convinced me that I was being unfair to Obama. There are a lot of intelligent and well-informed people who post on this site and my worry is that many of them have been driven off by all of the silliness.

[Bonobo]

39. Yes, that would be a loss. But most have stayed.

Have you not voted yet?

[Vattel]

44. reply

I couldn't vote here in MD because I registered Green. I've switched my support in the snese of changing my preference.

[Bonobo]

47. Gotcha. Thanks.

[IndianaGreen]

43. Let's have a party, open a few kegs of beer

Nothing like a cold brew to cheer the hearts and bond with others.

[Bonobo]

48. I can think of something better than beer.

:hippie:

[K Gardner]

53. How about something that's sure to lift everyone's spirits...

I've watched this a dozen times. Not sure why.. maybe it's the sheer joy of the unexpected, the innocence of youth, maybe just beauty in a world full of ugliness..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqe3A-zQhzU

I'd hope we could all agree this is enough to restore a bit of faith. (its not Obama..its not rickrolling.. try it, I dare you ! )

Nite all.

Edited to add the words of 13-year-old Andrew in answer to What do you do when you're bullied?

"I just carry on singin'"

[Bonobo]

59. That was amazing. Angelic.

[BigBearJohn]

113. I clicked on your link on a lark -- and I WAS FLOORED! I'm still blubbering.

Thanks! I needed that.

[K Gardner]

115. Yeah.. it absolutely stunned me, too. I think my hands literally flew up to my face. Still can'

watch it without blubbering. Kinda hoped someone would have the same reaction I did !

[knixphan]

56. I'm open, and I got love!

Anyone wants to partner with me, I'll make ya a martini.

[Bonobo]

58. Who are you supporting?

[Hoof Hearted]

61. You can take your alleged heart, sympathy and feelings and stick them up your

Monkey.

Too little, too late.

[Bonobo]

64. That's certainly an option as well. Thanks.

But just so you know, I have been sacrificing my time towards making a connection. What have you been doing?

[myrna minx]

84. You go ahead and feel that way, but many of us have been here for years,

myself since 2002, and we have forged relationships over time and this whole primary season is hurting many of us. We don't like the division with our friends: friends we had during the darkest times of this administration. From the stolen 2000 election and 9/11 (when I was a lurker), to Will Pitt's first book, to the office of special plans, the death of Senator Wellstone, and this stupid war and on and on and on. It may be a little too late for you, but for some of us, we've been online together and through the ringer, when no one else understood our heartbreak and outrage, so while you feel this OP is insincere, I guarantee it is not.

[Bonobo]

89. Thanks, Myrna.

You said that very well. It is how I feel.

I am being SO sincere right now. I think THIS is the only way, but it is more work than many want to do I think. It requires time and imagination to feel sympathy for an electronic bleep on your screen.

We MUST feel that the people we speak to here are other human beings, or "internet communication" will always be a cheap, shallow, worthless flamefest -and porno, never forget the porno ;)

[Colobo]

62. Emily is my dear friend. I love her.

:hi:

[Bonobo]

66. Why don't you ask her to come here. This is a friendly thread for conversation.

Like a bar.

[emilyg]

124. Katz - I love you my friend.

[BlooInBloo]

67. It's either brave or something else.... But in any case, I'll harbor no chips for any....

... who are voting for the Democratic nominee.

[Bonobo]

73. Who do you support, Bloo?

[BlooInBloo]

76. Edwards was #1. Edwards is out. Maverick's #1. God help us all. Good luck, gentlemen.

[Bonobo]

79. I'm sorry I did not understand that.

Who the hell is Maverick? Is that McCain? What are you saying?

It's late and I have an ear infection or something. Break it down for me. Please.

[BlooInBloo]

82. Top Gun reference - sigh (I sweartagod it was funny). With Edwards out, I favor Obama....

... But I've always been ok with any of the 3.

[Bonobo]

91. So how come only reasonable people are coming to my nice thread, I wonder?

Makes it kinda pointless... Ha ha ha. Just kidding. Not really.

:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

[BlooInBloo]

92. Hm. "Reasonable" isn't something I get a lot. Not sure how to respond. :P

[Bonobo]

95. You SOUND reasonable here.

Do you beat people up in GDP. Are you aa GDP bully?

Who do you support currently? Come on?

[BlooInBloo]

97. Read up.

[Bonobo]

102. I just did. You still sound reasonable, but you should be talking to a Hillary supporter.

Try. Tomorrow. Engage someone on the board for some one on one time. Promise?

You must first LISTEN to them, no arguing. Okay?

I think I will crash, man. Goodnight.

[Cant trust em]

70. after talking a little hoops, I got one of the biggest Hillary supporters

to admit that Obama does have some good traits. What a breakthrough!

[Bonobo]

75. I think an oblique approach is the only way to make any ground.

[quakerboy]

72. I like it n/t

[JeffR]

74. It's stunning that this post has 76 replies and not a single rec.

Here's rec number 1.

[Bonobo]

77. Thanks. We are communicating, not posturing up like apes. That's why.

But thanks for the rec. and I know you're one of the good ones.

I really think this is a good approach.

Perhaps a chat board on DU would be good. Real time chat. You know? Because this requires real commitment and back and forth.

Me and Dinger have been TALKING. It takes time and we are still at the very beginning. It depends on how wiling people are to listen and talk. It is much harder than saying:

"Your candidate is a liar!"

[JeffR]

85. It wasn't pretty 4 years ago here, but it was a walk in the park

compared to now. I freely admit I can't conceal my derision for a lot of things posted by the Clinton camp here, but at the end of the day, we stand together or we hang separately. Kudos to you for trying to circle the wagons. It's time.

[Bonobo]

96. It was NOTHING like this bad 4 years ago.

And I don't think it will be that easy for people to suddenly become friends again.

We need to see some wisdom in each other's choices -even if it kills us.

[JeffR]

100. Amen.

:thumbsup:

[Bongo Prophet]

78. This is always a good idea, to reach out when you can. It helps to go out of GDP.

There are many DUers I have respect for, before they chose a candidate, after, and whether they even vote or not. We all have reasons for our points of view, and some of us are more rabble rousing than others. This is the tapestry of human diversity, and keeps things interesting. The main thing is to be mindful that we are humans under the usernames, and treat each other with that in mind, whenever possible.

The reasons I respect others in the first place has less to do with their candidate choice and more to do with attitudes, hobbies, humor, pets, food and all the other little things that make up our lives. The areas outside of GDP, where we talk about music and films and gardening and living cheaply, helping each other fix computers or finding bargains -- that is what builds community.

I could list several, but that would dilute the point, I think. The general idea is the main thing.

I commend you for the spirit of this post, Bonobo.
As I heard a primatologist say once, Bonobos are the hippies of the ape family. ;)

[Bonobo]

81. More like the sex-addicts of the ape community.

Thanks for the kind words.

Bongo Fury Baby.

[Bongo Prophet]

110. Well, that too. Less aggressive about it than other chimpanzees, if I remember correctly.

Yes, that reminds me of the perspiring, staid english woman in some old "African safari" movie -.."the drums, the DRUMS! They're driving me mad!" (with repressed sexual tension innuendo, quite obvious to even a kid. I found it...intriguing.)

[calimary]

80. It's enough just to broach the question, for starters.

It's inevitable, though. We're all going to HAVE TO figure out how to get back together and work shoulder-to-shoulder to get OUR candidate, WHOEVER it is, into the White House. Some of us are going to have to hold our noses and do so, but screw it! It STILL has to be done!!!

I'd suggest giving EVERYONE here a time-out after the candidate is chosen. There will be many tempted to gloat, to rub it in, to scratch the opponents eyes out, to mope, to go passive-aggressive, whatever. EVERYONE here needs to give everyone else a bit of slack. Maybe it should be an agreed-upon length of time, like maybe a day or so, before we put everything aside and hunker down and get back to work.

There will be people here with deep wounds who'll feel horrible about their candidate losing. They'll need time to grieve, and understanding from everyone else. And support. THERE MUST BE SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT - NO Nyah-nyahs, no thumbing the nose, no rubbing salt in the wounds. Let our brothers and sisters recover. The victors MUST be graceful and gentle in their victory, because this is deep, heart-felt stuff. Remember how bad we all felt after Kerry's election was stolen? Let's not revisit that on those of us whose candidate doesn't get the victory lap. Whichever side loses, the Clintonites or Obamites, MUST be cut a little slack. It's just gotta be that way.

WE all have to be kind and compassionate and supportive of each other. You can sure as hell bet that our real opponents won't give us that.

[Bonobo]

86. Time is important, but what Bongo Prophet just said, and what I am coming to see is...

that we need to build up "associations" with individuals here. Let me explain. Yesterday, "Calimary" didn't mean much to me as a poster. Neither did "Dinger". But as I build up face time talking with him, and you, I build trust, associations. I LEARN about you and I share with you. I give you my trust and you give some back by not squishing me. You know?

Then, when it comes time to talk about real stuff, we have some BASE to work on. Some base of trust and good feelings.

Otherwise it is too easy to just say fuck off and die. You know?

[calimary]

94. Yes indeed. The common bonds.

The whole "more things that unite us than divide us" thing. Which is spot-on.

The really important thing here, I think, is that you brought this up so the rest of us will start thinking about it. Plus or minus, but at least we all need to start thinking about it - and start doing so NOW.

[Bonobo]

98. Well, eventually if we keep talking and talking on this thread, the responses will

go up and up and up... Maybe when it will snowball if we keep rolling and people will get the idea of what we are doing.

Ya think?

[calimary]

111. Hey, worth a try. I certainly agree that it's a topic well-worth discussing.

We're gonna get to that point eventually anyway. Might as well prepare for it.

When I was still in school and facing something daunting like Finals Week or something, I used to tell myself "the world turns." Which, to me, meant that no matter what happened, this ordeal would soon be over, because the time will pass no matter what we do and we'll soon be on the other end of whatever it is, time-wise. The earth will keep turning and the clock will keep ticking and time will keep moving. Nothing can stop the turning of the earth (well, aside from the kind of planetary cataclysm that will overwhelm everything and everyone anyway - in which case, why even care?). Nothing can stop the passage of time. Nothing stands still. And you are not stuck in any position forever because nothing is static forever. Time passes. The earth turns. This - WHATEVER it is - will move on down the road. It's been small comfort but comfort nonetheless when I've reminded myself of this in context of the bush administration. Even that won't last forever, no matter WHAT the neoCONS think they can do.

This WILL confront us, sooner or later. We'll have to deal with it eventually. There's a certain peace, I dunno, a certain zen in knowing that. The old que sera sera thing. It'll happen no matter what we do. We'll all have to settle on one candidate. We'll ALL have to go easy on each other. There needs to be healing, and ACKNOWLEDGMENT of that. We need to give each other room, and permission - especially for the followers of the person NOT designated as our standard-bearer - to grieve. 'Cause we've gotta suit up again, en masse, and go fight this anew. Hopefully it will have tempered us like steel.

[Bonobo]

120. Calimary!

That's so true.

I just read in a Vonnegut novel -I forget which- a similar thing. That the truest statement that could be made that covers all eventualities now and thru history is:

"This too shall pass"

[calimary]

123. Indeed. The earth turns.

The earth turns.

And we will get through this (and over this).

We're gonna have to.

[myrna minx]

90. I have some Hillary supporter friends here that I adore and respect them so very much, that

I am a bit heartbroken as to how this primary season has caused such division. It doesn't change how I feel about my Hillary friends and I hope it doesn't change how they feel about me, because I support Obama. I just want a DEM so badly in the WH.

[Bonobo]

93. I am certain every Hillary supporter despises me (except for a couple)

I deserve it. I have hit and hit hard many times.

It is because I want "President Obama" to be a reality so badly.

But I know it is the same for the Clinton people.

Still, I have been bad. Humans are angels and devils. Or Chimps and Bonobos. Same thing. Fight or have sex. Either one will leave you calm afterward, but one of them is a lot less painful.

[myrna minx]

106. You started this thread and put out a plea for connections and I believe that tonight

you are sincere. Your online name may be demonstrative of your online behavior, as you've expressed in your OP, we can change. Look, I've tried my best to be non knee jerk to some of the outrages, (and I've been a jerk to some and I'm not proud of that) but in text, I disagree with your idea that we are not more than primates...there is more to life than brawling and f*cking. I'm one of those weirdos where my online self is similar to who I am IRL, except IRL I'm more expressive. I'm typing world, I'm a dyslexic, a person who is reprimanded for my typing skills.

[Skittles]

108. you haven't just been bad

Obamabots and Hillbots have made a DISGRACE of DU. A FUCKING DISGRACE.

[Bonobo]

121. Well, maybe now we can help to make it better.

That's what I am trying to do.

[Bongo Prophet]

112. And a 5th rec for the morning crowd. Make some peace, people!

The view from the high road is a good one.
You can really see the big picture that way.

[SanchoPanza]

114. To Quote the 42nd President

"Go ahead, fall in love, be for somebody. But when the primary's over, let's fall in line and bring the White House back to our party."
- Bill Clinton, 2003

[WinkyDink]

116. Chickens counted, and all that?

[Bonobo]

117. Not at all. Not at all.

I just felt that the yelling had reached a kind of point where it was ridiculous and I could only handle one person at a time.

When I started to deal with one at a time, I noticed I started being more thoughtful and polite in my responses and figured it might be the only way for everyone at DU to begin to melt the ice.

[calimary]

125. Kick!

It IS a great idea, Bonobo. You a doctor, by any chance? You have the sense of the healer in you. And we all certainly do need that kind of thing.

:toast: :yourock:

[Bonobo]

126. Ha! I wish!

Sweet of you to say. I'm a translator.

Healing is the better angel of my nature. But I can be a major-league asshole and very, very aggressive too.

I will fight it out -for good or bad. I don't give up easily.

Many, many bad qualities and many good one too. Probably like everyone.

I'm loving me some Calimary though, I gotta tell you.

[calimary]

127. Awww... I kicked you over there, too,

at the other thread - World News Trust et al - that Tace posted.