If Obama wins the nomination, how much of a role will

[SeaLyons]

his church play in his presidency? Will Reverend Wright continue to be his spiritual adviser? Does Obama believe in separation of church and state?

This will be a main talking point from the RW. How is Obama going to handle it? Will he minimize and deflect, lie, or somehow twist the subject being brought up by the RW as "dirty politics", or politics of the past?

With McCain beating the Dem's in the polls overall right now, which in itself is amazing, just how is Obama going to overcome his baggage on a national level? Is Hope and Change enough to win him the White House? Does it beat McCain's experience and record?

I'm truly interested in the answers his supporters will surely throw at me.

Go for it...

[tabatha]

1. Obama has studied, taught the constition...

and says he will obey the constitution.

[papau]

3. So did/does Scalia

[tabatha]

120. No, Scalia does not.

[Usrename]

145. Scalia doesn't even pretend anymore.

He should be impeached (for failure to recuse himself after hunting with Cheney while his case was before the SCOTUS).

[Nickster]

2. I'm really concerned about his choice of orange juice in the morning. I mean OMG! Orange Juice???

[SeaLyons]

7. I hope the country takes this issue as lightly as you do

[Nickster]

22. I take the issue very seriously, but I'm also certain that you don't. When's the last time there

wasn't a self-identified Christian in the White House? Did Jimmy Carter's faith scare you too? I mean, he went out and knocked on doors to spread the Gospel. Did he rule from the church pulpit?

[SeaLyons]

36. I don't see any comparison

to Carter's church and Reverend Wright. And, yes, I take this issue very seriously because it will play a major role in the general campaign.

[Nickster]

42. None so blind as those who refuse to see. Please tell me why you are so afraid of Rev. Wright?

Bill Clinton didn't seem to have any issue with him being around the White House when he needed him. One sound bite taken out of context of the man's entire service to God and country over his entire life and I should be concerned? Have you heard the religious group that Senator Clinton ascribes too? Now that scares me.

[PBS Poll-435]

57. Well to be fair... Bill Clinton hadn't heard Wright's remarks on 9/11.

He wasn't in church that day.

:eyes:

[Nickster]

81. Yeah but Rev Wright sure was there when he needed religious leaders backing him up before the

Lewinsky affair blew up in his face.

[PBS Poll-435]

83. Actually -

The Lewinsky affair blew up in her face. Please make a note of it.

If you are going to truly be part of the movement, you need to get your terminology down cold.

And...Maybe Rev. Wright wasn't bitter in 1998?

:shrug:

[Nickster]

92. *sigh* Amazing how easy it is to throw a good man under the bus.

[PBS Poll-435]

100. Actually....He is not under my bus

I know that he has done some good things.

But to say that he, not Obama, doesn't deserve a little criticism for divisive and ignorant remarks is a little strange.

[Nickster]

110. Saying he deserves criticism is one thing, and I never said that he didn't deserve some. Does he

deserve 24x7 nitpicking over those few minutes of his life? Does it deserve Senator Clinton supporters to constantly bring up how it will effect Senator Obama and his judgement, etc etc etc? I don't think so. He's a good man that said something that got blown entirely out of proportion and compared to what's going on in Iraq.....

I also think it reflects poorly on Senator Clinton that she knows Rev. Wright isn't this demon that her campaign is trying to make him out to be, from her personal experiences with the man, but he's thrown under the bus for political expediency. Sorry, but I find that hard to swallow.

[PBS Poll-435]

112. Clinton didn't leak the clips.

The videos were available in exchange for a donation to the Church.

Obama's supporters bring up a lot of nasty and sleezy innuendo, Monica jokes, Clinton is ugly jokes, etc. It is the nature of GDP, it seems.

[Nickster]

115. So what if she didn't leak the clips. She sure took advantage of the clips though.

I have no idea what sleazy jokes have to do with anything in the realm of our discussion.

[PBS Poll-435]

119. This is why....

Does it deserve Senator Clinton supporters to constantly bring up how it will effect Senator Obama and his judgement, etc etc etc?

This is a discussion on the intertubes. Discussion works both ways. Some Obama supporterd harp on something really inane, and some Clinton supporters do the same thing.

[leftynyc]

116. Which one soundbite are you referring to?

1. 9/11 was the chickens coming home to roost
2. Government invented AIDS to genocide blacks
3. G-d-damn America

And in answer to the person above you, yes, Carter's religion also scared the shit out of me.

What you should be concerned about is how this is going to play in the fall. The 527 ads practically write themselves and who is going to believe that Sen Obama was never in the pews when controversial stuff was preached? Rev Wright is going to scare a lot of moderates and indies.

That said, I also don't like Hillary.


Edited to add: His church giving an honorary award to Louis Farrakhan - an award named after Rev Wright - is also going to be a problem. This mans was, by the Senator's own words, a spiritual advisor for 20 years and he's giving awards to race mongering pricks.

[NorthCarolina]

74. And Clinton's religious choice "The Family" doesn't bother you?

maybe you should read up on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29

[rug]

14. I bet there's no pulp in it.

[Nickster]

16. Please, how elitist?! He demands someone pick out all the pulp from his juice?

[TheDoorbellRang]

33. rug is joking

Really, he/she is one of the funniest Hillary supporters on here. Usually good for pricking the bubble when things get blown up out of proportion.

[Nickster]

35. I guess my humour didn't translate well. I got the joke.

[TheDoorbellRang]

103. Sorry about that

I re-read your answer and see that now. I guess I'm too used to seeing hair trigger reactions here in the good old GD-P.

[Nickster]

108. No sweat. It'll be over soon and we can get back to normal around here.

[redqueen]

77. He called me a cunt.

I don't like him.

[smiley_glad_hands]

4. The repugs can bring up this is no more than clinton can bring up elitism.

Its a non starter. Might get a few news cycles but only serves to employ a few writers at fox news.

[IndianaJones]

5. much of our law is grounded in the judeo-christian tradition. nt.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. No, most of our law is grounded in the tradition of English common law.

And ultimately the Magna Carta, if you go back far enough.

[IndianaJones]

31. our law is by definition a codification of morality...

much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. Not really.

A good deal of the traditions of the common law go back to the traditions and customs of the Normans. Who were Germanic barnarians, converted to Christianity relatively late. And the law in most other countries (and in Louisiana, here in the US) is based on a modified form of the Napoleonic Code (which is itself based on the Roman lex civis).

[redqueen]

78. Those are both quotes from Obama's book, if I'm not mistaken. (nt)

[Maribelle]

6. I don't believe his 'baggage' has made it through customs yet.

The inspection has only just begun.

[SeaLyons]

15. I just hope customs is not just doing random checking...

:hi:

[Crunchy Frog]

8. I'm sure he'll give Rev Wright some sort of cabinet position.

I also have it on very good authority that he's planning to forcibly convert everyone to Islam.

[JoFerret]

21. No ...only his life partner

Stop exaggerating.

[GoldieAZ49]

125. I have heard that from a few people now.

no wonder they don't want anything to do with Obama and his bitter religion.

[Bensthename]

9. I hope Reverend Wright is his VP. He's a hip cat yo.

[oviedodem]

10. All Obama has to do is bring up Bush consulting with Robertson before Iraq; end of discussion!

[leftynyc]

117. I don't think we want to get into a battle

of whose religious freaks are scarier to the folks. That's a loser argument.

[Symarip]

11. ZZZzzzz.... (nt)

[BlooInBloo]

12. Go peddle your FUD tactics somewhere else.

[SeaLyons]

23. I take it it's not a question you care to consider???

[BlooInBloo]

29. Clinton/McCain = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Good luck with that...

... EDIT: It's worked SOOOOO well for you guys so far. :rofl: That's probably the funniest thing about Hilarity Clinton and her supporters' campaign - how they doggedly stick with EXACTLY what doesn't work.

[SeaLyons]

54. Well, if Obama gets the nomination

I hope you're right! Somehow, I don't think the country as a whole is on board. Why is McCain leading in the polls?

[BlooInBloo]

62. Again, you may wish to peddle the lies elsewhere - they don't work on me....

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/04/pollmccain_even_with_obama_lea.php

"POLL-McCain even with Obama, leads Clinton".

But best of luck with the strategy that has served Clinton oh-so well thus far.

[leftofcool]

13. I am concerend about Wright hurting Obama in the GE

I am not concerned Obama will take his religion into the WH. I don't see that from any Democrat. As a Hillary supporter, I will vote for him in the GE even though there are issues with him that I do not trust. What does concern me is that when I do disagree with his policies or with him on specific issues, am I going to be called a racist for it. I have seen this on blogs and right here on DU. Is this going to be a new theme throught the US. "Disagree with Obama and you are a racist."

[SeaLyons]

18. I agree,

the race issue has become distorted and overblown, and used as a deflection. Very concerning.

[Liberal Gramma]

38. As have the charges of sexism

Not all voters vote their prejudices.

[GoldieAZ49]

127. When they jump to play the race card, they are the racist

projecting out of fear of serious questions

[blm]

95. I'm concerned the Theo-Fascist group Hillary belongs to HAS BEEN influencing the debate of

religion in politics for far too long. Over twenty years of these theo-fascist prayer groups in DC is more than enough for me.

Wright is someone I agree with about our nation's government a whole helluva lot more than I agree with The "Family' of fascists Hillary prays with the last 15 years.

[GoldieAZ49]

126. Wright will be his spiritual and political adviser

January 21, 2007

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

...

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

Last fall, Obama approached Wright to broach the possibility of running for president. Wright cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged Obama, win or lose.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?cset=true&ctrack=1&page=2&coll=chi-religion-topheadlines

[jwirr]

17. This question assumes that a Christian cannot govern properly. I

would suggest that we start by looking at Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Jimmy Carter. All were professed Christians and all were great leaders in their own way without mixing church and state. It can be done. There is no reason to believe that Obama will be any different.

[SeaLyons]

20. No, that was not the assumption when I posed the question.

Obviously Christians can be great leaders. Obama's church is out of the norm, and attracts endorsement of Farrakhan and the Black Panthers. It is seen as racist by many. Is that affiliation going to be a problem for him in the GE?

[Nickster]

24. Really now? Spreading well debunked lies about endorsements, where have I seen that before?

[SeaLyons]

27. ...

Farrakhan and the Black Panthers are not lies. Both endorse the doctrine of Obama's church.

[Nickster]

32. So you have a link or two other than Hannity or Taylor Marsh to support that right?

[SeaLyons]

41. supporting your candidate is fine...

doing it blindly with no ability to discuss the pro's and con's, or throwing insults accomplishes nothing. It's supporters like you that miss opportunities to bring people together on this board.

[Nickster]

46. So I should follow your example of spreading lies about a candidate in order to convert people.

Thanks for your concern and advice. I will take it into consideration.

[SeaLyons]

53. Your comprehension level is astounding...

:sarcasm:

[Nickster]

55. LoL, as is yours. Gotta run now, taking heavy sniper fire......

[NatBurner]

48. and what doctrine is that?

do u even know?

[SeaLyons]

51. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Jed Dilligan]

97. Weird. I didn't know people "endorsed" churches

other than by joining them. Why would a Muslim preacher "endorse" a Christian church?

[Maribelle]

34. JFK did not join the Catholic Church because it was the politically expedient thing to do.

Your analogy to Obama is misleading.

[BattyDem]

19. Anything that makes the RW demand separation of church and state is fine by me.

It's their fault religion became intertwined with politics in the first place. Now they wanna bitch about it? Good! It would be great for the country if our candidates (and all future candidates) talked about the constitution instead of the bible.

Obama was a civil rights lawyer. He also studied and taught Constitutional Law. He's already proven that he knows and respects the difference between faith and law.

[Ron Green]

26. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE

as long as it's helpful to our common understanding: Searching, tolerant, transformative, scholarly, charitable - all these are what a church should be. Smug, exclusive, warlike, fearful - these churches ought to be exposed, discussed and discredited.

Obama's connection with religion doesn't bother me one bit, because he is able to explain to people how an effective balance of body, mind and spirit must exist in society just as it does in an individual.

[SeaLyons]

66. Thanks for your input...

very insightful.

[smoogatz]

28. So, you'll be voting for McCain, I guess,

given his extensive misunderstandingof the situation on the ground in Iraq, his record of incompetence and corruption, not to mention his love for all things Bush and his numerous public statements in support of Bush and Bush's policies, and the small but very hard erection he gets whenever anyone mentions war?

[SeaLyons]

39. I'm a democrat....

one that wants a democratic White House. I don't want to see a repeat of the 2000 and 2004 elections. The question I posed does not make me a traitor to the democratic party. I will be voting for a democrat no matter who get's the nomination. Can you say the same? The question I posed is a genuine concern that many have when it comes to winning the GE.

[smoogatz]

50. "Many" are concerned that Obama doesn't support separation of church/state?

Really? That's news to me. You're pretty much the only person I've encountered who thinks this might be an issue.

[SeaLyons]

52. Really? Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand...

that's all I can say.

[smoogatz]

96. And what's your take on Hillary's secret fundie Cap Hill prayer group?

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

Can you belong to a religious group that "seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill" and still respect separation of church and state? Funny, the capacity that Hillary supporters seem to have for projection.

[GoldieAZ49]

128. Wright will be his spiritual and political adviser

January 21, 2007

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

...

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

Last fall, Obama approached Wright to broach the possibility of running for president. Wright cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged Obama, win or lose.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?cset=true&ctrack=1&page=2&coll=chi-religion-topheadlines

[smoogatz]

132. This seems pretty dated at this point.

Got anything more recent, that actually says what you say it says? And that doesn't answer the question about Hillary's little fundie Bible cult. These are dominionists we're talking about. Is Hillary a closet dominionist? Maybe she should make a statment that lays out her position on the church/state issue.

[GoldieAZ49]

135. last year is "dated"

he hides is mentor for political purposes. No it is accurate.

Did Hillary's or ANY other candidate's pastor, in oh, say the past 100 years, come out and ask their congregation to sing God damn America? Or accuse the government of selling drugs so they could fill the prisons? Or accuse the government of inventing a fatal disease with the intent of killing them off and make these accusations from the pulpit to teach hate fear and racial tension?

list them all please, oh hell, list one candidate that joined a church like that and stayed for 20 years, distancing themselves only when they want to run for POTUS.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Less than Doug Coe's. eom

[Florida22ndDistrict]

40. re: If Obama wins the nomination, how much of a role will

Of course Obama's church/religion will be used against him in the general election. The republicans will use the loyalty to Africa junk on white Christians as in my religion is holier then yours. They will use the religious tone in which he speaks against the atheists & secularists. They will use his name to peg him as a Muslim to people known to be fearful of terrorism. Religion will play a large role in attacking Obama. Race, religion, and nationalism what a witch's brew. Boil boil toil and trouble. This general elections is going to be nasty.

[SeaLyons]

43. I agree...

[cooolandrew]

44. Probably as much as Hillary's prayer meeting will in hers. Rev has retired.

[cooolandrew]

47. Beating on religion ain't the way to go as much as some don't like it religion is big in America.

[SeaLyons]

67. I know, that's why the question was posed.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Fail.

[Symarip]

63. Tee hee

That one's great. It's getting bookmarked.

[SeaLyons]

68. Yes, I agree...

you definitely "FAIL" as a contributor on this board.

Thanks for the lovely post.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

80. Meh.

I've been defending your candidate from morons who did everything short of calling her "Hitlery" and saying she murdered Vince Foster since before you were even a member here. I've always stuck up for her when I thought she wasn't being given a fair shake.

Your post is worthless, but since you're soooo interested, here's an honest response...

how much of a role will his church play in his presidency?

How much of a role has it played in his Senate career? In his Illinois Senate Career? Can you name a single vote that you believe to have been unduly influenced by his church?

Will Reverend Wright continue to be his spiritual adviser?

Wright is retired. Wright isn't even his spiritual adviser NOW.

Does Obama believe in separation of church and state?

I don't know, what do you think, genius?

This will be a main talking point from the RW.

Yes, the Republicans are so keen on the separation of church and state, aren't they? As for the Wright stuff, no shit. They can't actually attack him or Hillary on any substantive issue because both of their policies are highly rated by the public and McCain is running to be the third term of Bush.

How is Obama going to handle it?

We've already seen how he handles it. You can like or dislike it but don't pretend that you've got no idea what he'd do.


With McCain beating the Dem's in the polls overall right now

The polls are all over the fucking place right now, and it's April.

which in itself is amazing

No it isn't. McCain has always been very popular with the general public because the only thing they know about him is that he's a "Maverick" and that he was one of the sponsors of campaign finance reform.

just how is Obama going to overcome his baggage on a national level?

How the fuck does ANY politician overcome his or her baggage on a national level? How is McCain going to explain his lobbyist connections and being a member of the Keating Five?

Is Hope and Change enough to win him the White House?

I give up. There's not even any point. This isn't even related to how he might handle Wright or any of his other baggage. FAIL.

Does it beat McCain's experience and record?

EPIC FAIL.


I'm truly interested in the answers his supporters will surely throw at me.


No you're not. You're posting incendiary crap. You haven't engaged in a useful discussion with anyone who's given an honest, considered answer to your question in this thread. FAIL.

[SeaLyons]

82. Guess I pushed a button

....thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll try not to post "incendiary crap" in the future.

:hi:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

85. You are proving my point.

You have no intention of responding to substantive responses with the same.

[SeaLyons]

89. ....

hey, I thanked you for your input, and promised not to post crap like that in the future....what more do you want from me? Seriously.

O8)

[GoldieAZ49]

129. Wright will be his spiritual and political adviser

January 21, 2007

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

...

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

Last fall, Obama approached Wright to broach the possibility of running for president. Wright cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged Obama, win or lose.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?cset=true&ctrack=1&page=2&coll=chi-religion-topheadlines

[Prophet 451]

141. OK, 3 times in one thread is SPAMMING n/t

[GoldieAZ49]

144. I posted it 4 times in one thread for their edification

:hi:

[anonymous171]

49. lol. I thought he was an atheist/communist now?

[Orsino]

56. Thank you for your concern. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

58. If Hillary Clinton is President, how much influence will "The Fellowship" have?

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[Arugula Latte]

71. Yep -- Just what we want. Another president with close ties to scary rightwing religious nuts.

[olkaz]

59. It's not "if", it's "when".

"With McCain beating the Dem's in the polls overall right now..."

That will be over when we unite behind Obama.

As for the preacher, logic would dictate that the Obama campaign would try to minimize his involvement. The man is retired, anyway.

Honestly, I'm glad the preacher thing got taken care of so early. The second round won't be as big of a deal.

[SeaLyons]

69. "IF" he gets the nomination...

I hope you're right.

[olkaz]

72. Just FYI - Nobody likes a concern troll.

I don't know why I replied in the first place. Sometimes I just can't stay away from the flamebait. I'm impulsive, I guess.

But anyway, yeah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#Concern_troll

[not_too_L8]

60. We can ask that same question about Clinton and her right wing bible group

[dionysus]

61. ask pastor hagee, concern troll

:eyes:

[cliffordu]

64. Hm. Do you folks have a checklist to run down??

Let's see...


Muslim.
Rezco.
Wright.
Uppity - no - elitist.
empty suit
unelectably - (black, or AA)

Or,
From your post above -

"twist, deflect, lie"

I'd guess 'deflect' is an extra credit word

All the same pejoratives in so many similar posts, all the same buzzwords, like someon had a library of slime that y'all just check out documents from and rewrite in your own sophomoric voice......


FAIL

[GoldieAZ49]

130. All of the above!!!!!!!!!!!

:applause::applause::applause:

and yes he does and will FAIL

[PVnRT]

65. Uh-huh

Faux concern over "what will happen in the general election." This is getting old real fast.

But let's keep pretending that Hillary has no baggage to worry about either. I'm sure the GOP will be honorable and not start whispering about Whitewater, or Vince Foster, or any of the other dozens of crackpot conspiracy theories that the media was all too happy to pursue.

[Mooney]

70. I see nothing that would indicate

that Obama would have any difficulty recognizing the distinction between the church and the state, and respecting their separation. Is there something specifically that makes you worry that he'll advance an agenda based on the sermons of Jeremiah Wright?

[redqueen]

73. Which of Hillary's votes does The Family take credit for?

:shrug:

[SoCalDem]

75. "...Does it beat McCain's experience and record?..."

Keating 5
Cozy with Lobbyists
WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR
BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN

There is a LOT of stuff that people still do not "know" about McCain, because when he came to the public attention in 2000, he was the underdog sweetie-pie war hero being abused by George Bush & Karl Rove..

People attached themselves to him because of the way he was being treated, more than his message..He was not in the race long enough for people to see his flaws up close & personal..

Now that he's THE candidate, and on a national stage with an opposition party opponent, he will be examined and opened up for all to see...just like a wrapped package on Christmas day..

That pretty box you cannot wait to open? Well it does not contain an X-Box from Santa.. It's socks & books from Aunt Mary .....the aunt who loves Ann Coulter & Sean Hannity :rofl:

[oasis]

76. He'll dump Wright just as he'll dump a large percentage of his starry-eyed followers.

When you get down to it Obama's just another sly, ultra-ambitious politician.

[SeaLyons]

79. ....

:thumbsup:

[tishaLA]

84. Here's your answer

about his beliefs about church/state issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZsUollgs-o

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

86. If obama gets the nod

All the RW has to do is run the Hillary adds, I mean they have her saying McCain is more qualified and Obama does not get small town people of faith... What else are they going to need. Meanwhile Obama has been a class act towards Hillary there are no sound bites that can be used in the gen from him..

Hillary really has put herself infront of everyone else..

[SeaLyons]

90. Really? Calling her

Annie Oakley, talking about a six shooter and duck blind, mocking her? That's a class act? Running attack ads with audience sounds? And let's not forget, any negativity coming from Clinton about Obama has been the result of his own words or affiliations. I agree she has let herself become the bad guy by trying to denounce Obama's arrogance and bad judgment.

[Prophet 451]

142. Calling her Annie Oakley could be a compliment

Yeah, ok, I'm reaching here but if you read up on Annie Oakley's life, being comapred to her is actually rather flattering.

[NatBurner]

87. about as much as your pastor plays in your job

i type that^, knowing that this line of snark could backfire if u happen to be a minister or something, but u get the point

[SeaLyons]

91. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[mckeown1128]

88. McCain is only beating Hillary in the polls. Obama is winning. nt

[jeffrey_X]

93. Reverend Wright retired.

Has any other past president's church been involved before?

[RichardRay]

94. Taking your question at face value...

Barack Obama will choose his advisors carefully, based on what issue he seeks advice on and the relative knowledge and resources each advisor brings. If there were a topic on which Reverend Jeremiah Wright were so uniquely qualified then I would guess Senator Obama would call on him. I don't know of any such issue, so I say that, no, he will not call on Reverend Wright.

Yes. Senator Obama believes in the separation of Church and State. I'll just leave it at that unless you have some reason to challenge the statement, in which case I'll expect some sort of a case made that he doesn't so that I'll know what I'm trying to refute.

Senator Obama will overcome such issues the same way he has to date: With a unique willingness to directly confront issues when finesse doesn't work. I like finesse; I don't call it 'wriggling' or 'pandering', I call it skill. In negotiation it's called knowing one's BATNA - the Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement. When he sees that negotiation and construtive discussion aren'nt going to make a difference he goes to his core stance and sticks to it, at whatever the cost may be. He doesn't have to do that very often, but he can and will. His speech after the Wright flap first started up was a good exammple of that.

McCain is beating Senator Obama in some polls, in some places, at some times. In other cases it's the other way around. Note that this is before any Democrat has even started campaigning against McCain - he has the field pretty much to himself; it's pretty easy to compete successfully when there's no one on the other side. McCain is all over the map with an unfocused and badly formed platform. Senator Obama can hit his marks again and again and again. When Senator Obama can concentrate on McCain I think we'll see a very different race. A lot of people recognize it, even if they do so reluctantly. Some folks don't, and some of them will vote for McCain. I think more will make the other choice.

[SeaLyons]

98. ...

Thanks for your response. Very informative and I mean that sincerely.

Obama's speech on race was reported to be well received, but I'm not sure he convinced the masses to win the GE. Had it not been provoked by his pastor's controversy, maybe, but I think many see that speech as strictly political, and those of us that do, find it a bit condescending.

I will be voting for a dem, whomever the candidate may be.

[shagsak]

99. who cares?

1. If Obama wins the nomination, how much of a role will his church play in his presidency? My guess is very little. Religion is personal, not business.

2. Will Reverend Wright continue to be his spiritual adviser? No, it will continue to be God.

3. Does Obama believe in separation of church and state? He supports the constitution, so, yeah.

4. This will be a main talking point from the RW. How is Obama going to handle it? With gusto.

5. Will he minimize and deflect, lie, or somehow twist the subject being brought up by the RW as "dirty politics", or politics of the past? No, see above, WITH GUSTO BABY!!!

6. With McCain beating the Dem's in the polls overall right now, which in itself is amazing, just how is Obama going to overcome his baggage on a national level? My guess is carry on. There isn't enough to check.

7. Is Hope and Change enough to win him the White House? Nope. He's going to have to continue to be honest and presidential, you know, like he has from the beginning.

8. Does it beat McCain's experience and record? No. McCain has definitely crashed more planes.

I'm truly interested in the answers his supporters will surely throw at me. Please put this in the form of a question.

Two things I noticed, questions 5 and 6 attack Obama at the same time as ask questions. I assume this was intended to subliminally cast doubt within Obama supporters. You would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling high school graduates.

Edited to fit your television

[SeaLyons]

101. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[shagsak]

102. I've been waiting a long time

for someone to tell me that. I too will be voting for the Dem Nom in Nov. Whoever that may be. GL to us all.

[SeaLyons]

104. ...

:thumbsup:

[wowimthere]

105. Hagee and Parsely cancel Wright out! Dirty politics? People are fed up. Hillary

Can't win. The reason? The war! NAFTA! The lies about both.

The polls? This far out when the winner (Obama) hasn't been announced gives us a mirage of the political landscape. Once Obama is the nominee, the polls will show the real story. Say what you will about Obama's chances, no one wants this war to continue. You are going to see a voter drive like you've never seen before that will upend McCain based on pure policy decisions.

Even if Obama doesn't get all of Clinton's supporters, he will get far more independents who don't want more wars, more republicans who want an end to the Bush policies and more new voters who want change.

Clinton could never win against McCain. She is Kerry part 2. She voted for this war and can't explain her rationale for doing so.

Obama didn't have a vote and spoke against it. Everyone will see McCain's rationale as stale and wrong headed by time obama and McCain debate.

Add in the bad bankruptcy bill, the foreclosure crisis, the economy, of which McCain and Clinton had a hand in and you have McCain being scorched by the policies Bush espoused. No way Obama loses because he didn't vote for the Bush policies.

[SeaLyons]

111. ...

Hagee and Parsley are not McCain's pastor, and Obama's church affiliation is a big question mark to many. That's just a fact.

It's true Obama did not cast the vote to authorize the war, but it is also true he did absolutely nothing to stop funding the war. So in that respect, he's no different than Clinton. Their voting record is exactly the same - Bush policies and all.

I hope your assumptions are true if he gets the nomination.

[uponit7771]

106. Hagee and Parsley are in play if the RW brings up Wright. Parsley is a HORRIBLE person

[SeaLyons]

109. Except McCain did not attend their church...

[onenote]

107. so, tell me more about Obama's church (not Rev. Wright's politics)

I'm confused. Is your problem that Rev. Wright is a spiritual leader that speaks on political matters? Should he not do so? Is that a violation of church and state? Was it a violation of church and state in your mind when Martin Luther King Jr. spoke of political matters? Would you have been concerned if a follower of MLK ran for president? When you ask whether Obama believes in the separation of church and state, what is the basis for your question?

Will I see answers to these questions? I'm not holding my breath.

[SeaLyons]

113. ....

I think Reverend Wright is the exact opposite of MLK. I think he is a hate monger, and his sermons are incendiary and divisive. In my opinion they serve no purpose for positive change for the members of the church or the community, and Obama's affiliation with the church is in direct conflict with his message of Hope and Change and Unity. I understand Wright is considered an intellectual among his peers, but his message is very divisive, and his sermons are not the norm.

Separation of church and state is very important to me, and I would prefer a president who kept his spiritual life private.

[onenote]

114. I'm not defending the substance of Wright's speech, just the principles you raised

Obama has been clear that he does not share in Rev. Wright's more extreme and divisive political views. But either you can accept that political views are separate, in which case Obama's attendance at a church at which Rev. Wright formerly -- repeat -- formerly -- was the minister shouldn't cause you a moment's pause, or you view them as indistinguishable and should be uncomfortable with any candidate that belongs to a church of any kind.

How familiar are you with the United Church of Christ -- as a religious denomination -- not the political views of a particular member?


What I take it from your comment is that you were (or would have been) uncomfortable with Jimmy Carter (who did not keep his spirtual life "private") and were (or would have been) uncomfortable with a candidate who embraced Rev. King as a spiritual leader.

[SeaLyons]

118. ...

If I left you with the feeling that I would be uncomfortable with a candidate who embraced Rev. King, you could not be further from the truth. My reservation has nothing to do with race.

No, my reservation is in the contradiction of Barack Obama, the man. And, frankly, I think Barack has not been honest about his true feelings and commitment to Rev. Wright (the mentor, the friend of 20 years). Just because Obama SAYS he does not share Wrights extreme views, doesn't mean that everyone takes him for his word. The 20 year relationship contradicts what he says.

[onenote]

123. again -- separate the politics from the religion

If you feel that Obama actually shares the extreme political views of Rev. Wright, so be it. But your raising the separation of church and state issue is nothing but a red herring and you should acknowledge that it is.

[mkultra]

121. summary

Obama has already stated that his religion does not require that he faust his beliefs on others.
I am personally very spiritual but i also believe that there is little to no place for religion in government.
This is, of course, one of the reasons why he resonates with me.


The right wingers will not attack him on religion, if they do, they will only harm themselves as religious conservatives are their base. They have tolerated batshit crazy preachers for years, im sure they understand. If they attack him on it, he will stand his ground just like he did with hill. They will tear themselves apart and their base will stay home. McCain already has a tenuous relationship with the religious wing of the conservatives. He will not risk alienating them.


McCain clearly has more military experience than any candidate running but he also has an orientation for extending the war and possibly starting another. This will drive many of the "fed-up middle" to Obama. Other than that, his experience is of little use.

As far as pooling goes, i disagree with your assessment. Obama has been above McCain several times while Clinton gets edged or moderately beat by him consistently. When the GE is over, Obama will stop getting attacked by his own party and will only be faced with policy based attacks. With the current US sentiment, the democratic platform will beat the republican patform hands down. As long as Obama doesn't do something stupid, its in the bag.


feel free to respond

[SeaLyons]

149. Do you think his performance in last night's debate

qualifies as "something stupid"?

[Milo_Bloom]

122. Let me get your story straight???

The RW is going to question how much of a role Obama's church will play in his presidency?

The RW is going to question whether the church will be involved in a presidency?

One can only wish that RW will start battle of the crazy preachers 2008. That is an easy battle for the dems to win.

[GoldieAZ49]

124. Wright will be his spiritual and political adviser

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

...

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

Last fall, Obama approached Wright to broach the possibility of running for president. Wright cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged Obama, win or lose.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?ctrack=1&cset=true&page=2&coll=chi-religion-topheadlines


Wright will be his spiritual and political adviser

[anonymous171]

131. How do you come to that conclusion?

[LooseWilly]

133. He answered this already.

Remember that compassion forum on Sunday? He answered that precise question.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/13/se.01.html

I leave it to you to scroll down to the Obama section of the transcript if you're really looking for an answer.

Which I somehow doubt that you are...

[SeaLyons]

150. yes, he answered, but as you can see, he's going to

continue to have to answer until he comes up with a plausible explanation.

[JTFrog]

134. I wanna know if he worships the Constitution not some imaginary people in the sky.

The Constitution is more powerful, moral and compassionate than any religion I've ever encountered.

Read it and you will understand why your question has absolutely no place in politics.

To paraphrase: Keep your Mother Fucking Religion out of My Mother Fucking Politics.

There will be no religious test for the office of the presidency.

Thanks for failing.

[SeaLyons]

151. Excuse me, but it is Obama who brought HIS

mother fucking pastor into this race. It is his mother fucking pastor who happens to be a big mother fucking problem for dem's in the GE. You can thank Obama for that!

Thank you for failing.

[JTFrog]

153. Really? Obama sent the press video of his pastor and said hey let's make the race about religion?

Why is it always opposite day in HillaryWorld?


:crazy:

The only reason your candidate is not being held up in the glaring spotlight over Doug Coe is because a) Obama is above that frey and b) the Republicans will all die on their swords before letting any attention be focused on Hillary's spiritual advisor who is one of their own.

[SeaLyons]

154. In Obama World, a 20 year

relationship with a racist Pastor should be ignored by the press. Right!

Opposite Day???? I think that's what all you Obama supporters are having today...

:rofl:

[JTFrog]

157. I point again to the Constitution. There will be no religious test for the office of the President.

It should never have been an issue to begin with.

But then I suppose that since Hillary has been so intent on dismantling the Constitution with her votes on issues ranging from flag burning to the Patriot Act, that her supporters have no problem with yet another rip in the fabric.



Anything to win. Might as well toss the Constitution into the kitchen sink. It's all fair game until she's the winner, right?

[Pawel K]

136. What role will Bill's blow job play? What role will all those pardons play?

What about her support of the IWR. Or her little Bosnia fantasy?

Each candidate has their skeletons in their closet, Hillary far more than Obama. But I think you already knew that before you posted your question?

[cui bono]

137. Ask that about Hillary.... n/t

[AZBlue]

138. This is the most absurd post of the week.

Maybe the month. And that's not easy to do here lately!

[SeaLyons]

148. Not so absurd after all, huh?

[TheWraith]

139. For the right wingers to use that argument, they'd have to kill themselves first.

From people who campaign on the idea that there IS not seperation of church and state? Please. They'd be signing their own death warrants.

[Prophet 451]

140. Little

Now, I say "little" by US standards which from my point of view (as a Brit) is still insanely religious. Also, I'm talking about the actual effect that it has on his policies, not what teh RW will say about him.

I doubt his church or faith will play much of a role in his presidency. I suspect that Obama would assume the role of a fairly mainline Christian i.e. he'll make the right noises at the right times and perhaps his faith would be some guide to him but no more so than, say, John Edwards. Rev Wright may or may not remain as his spiritual adviser but if W can get away with the parade of kooks, nutcases and zealots who've graced his halls, a man of Wright's personal character shouldn't be a huge problem.

What teh RW will throw at him is another matter. They can't hammer the church & state point too hard since most of their base are fanatical fundementalists, many of whom want their religion enshrined in law so I suspect they'll pursue the "he's not like us" point as hard as possible. That will probably include the muslim lie, it will definately include coded (and possibly outright) race-baiting, it will definately include describing Obama as the liberalist liberal that ever was a liberal (that one's already started) despite a record of fairly straightforward centre-left policies. We can probably expect Michelle Obama's remarks to be played on loop for weeks (I've never understood why Americans are so insistent that everyone be proud of their nation just for existing, remarks like hers and Wright's wouldn't raise an eyebrow here). If they can possibly get away with it, they'll try rumours about Obama or some relative or someone he once met being nebulously connected with somethign vaguely connected with terrorists (remember the smears that Clinton had renounced his citizenship or joined teh KGB?).

Whether he beats McCain depends a lot on what kind of campaign he runs. Obviously, we can't predict any dirty tricks the right will come out with but if the Dems stress how much McCain would be W's third term and presuming there isn't a collosal cock-up on Obama's part (of the "dead girl or live boy" magnitude), I think he should be able to make it. Personally, I think overstressing the point about McCain's temper could backfire since, to the dittoheads who currently aren't entirely sold on McCain, that would actually make him more attractive. Emphasising his age would probably be a plus although I'm unsure if that one will actually make much difference. Overall, his closeness to Bush is the main point.

However, that presumes the votes are counted more-or-less honestly and that's what worries me about this race. The Rethugs desperatly need a McCain win, both to continue their systematic murder of the American people and to avoid the real possibility of someone (anyone, they're all guilty of something) in W's admin facing charges. They've shown zero respect for democracy up until now so it's folly to expect them to suddenly develop some. That's the bit that worries me.

[Cha]

143. Get real...and stop wringing

your damn hands.

[krkaufman]

146. Your post reveals an ignorance of the facts, and merits no further response. n/t

[Zhade]

147. When he wins, not if.

NT!

[Raffi Ella]

152. well

after watchng his performance last night? I'd say your concerns are very well founded. And I agree with you; His actions are in direct conflict with what he says.

The GOP will annihilate him in the general.

[GoesTo11]

155. That will feel good for you, won't it

[Raffi Ella]

156. fuck no.

If he wins the nom I'll campaign for him as hard as I would have for Hillary but this isn't the general, it's the primary; I wanna win the White House back, he can't do that for Us, Hillary can.

[SeaLyons]

160. Yes, this "concern troll" nailed it....

:hug:

[Seabiscuit]

158. Hey Cricket ... they asked the same question at the debate last night of Obama.

It was a fair question to ask.

[SeaLyons]

159. Yup,

I think the question is on a lot of people's minds.

:hi:

[onenote]

162. Really. Here's the transcript. Show me where they asked about separation of church and state

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/DemocraticDebate/Story?id=4670271&page=1

Here are your questions: What role will his church play in his presidency? Will Reverend Wright continue to be his spiritual adviser? Does Obama believe in separation of church and state?


Here is what was asked in the debate
GIBSON: Senator Obama, since you last debated, you made a significant speech in this building on the subject of race and your former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. And you said subsequent to giving that speech that you never heard him say from the pulpit the kinds of things that so have offended people.

But more than a year ago, you rescinded the invitation to him to attend the event when you announced your candidacy. He was to give the invocation. And according to the reverend, I'm quoting him, you said to him: "You can get kind of rough in sermons. So, what we've decided is that it's best for you not to be out there in public." I'm quoting the reverend.

But what did you know about his statements that caused you to rescind that invitation? And if you knew he got rough in sermons, why did it take you more than a year to publicly disassociate yourself from his remarks?

You think those are the same questions?

[SeaLyons]

164. OMG...

the gist of my OP was the Wright issue....calm down. No big deal.

[onenote]

165. the "gist" of your issue was to suggest that Obama would put his faith above the constitution

And that's utter bullshit and not even the most bullshitty debate ever wandered into that silly territory.

[SeaLyons]

166. I think I know what I posted...

and that was not the gist. It was one question within the OP. The gist was how would Obama handle the Wright issue if he wins the nomination.

[cali]

161. OK, here's an honest answer. Wright will be a significant issue

no doubt about it. How will he handle it? He's handled it deftly so far, no reason to believe he won't continue doing so. And though McCain beats Hill and Barack in the polls now, it's way, way too early to put any stock in them. And, it's not really how you fram things. There's more to the dynamics of this election than campaign slogans. The dem nominee- almost certainly Obama- will win because of the catastrophic economy and because McCain is too closely tied to bush. in addition, Obama is a far better campaigner than Obama. And you, cricket, just threw nasty at Obama and his supporters, so of course you'll get back what you put out.

Oh, as for the nonsense about whether Obama believes in the separation of church and state, there is nothing to suggest that he doesn't believe in it. To the contrary, there's ample evidence suggesting he's a firm believer in it.

[Fox Mulder]

163. You must have been asking the questions at the debate last night.

Because they were just as dumb as this one.

[SeaLyons]

167. Really? How did Obama do with all those dumb questions....

I bet you're just beaming with pride today...