Why is it wrong to call some PA rural people "bitter", but it's okay to trash San Francisco?

[El Pinko]

Why is it wrong for Obama to call some PA rural people "bitter", but it's okay for McCain and Clinton to generalize the entire San Francisco Bay area as a bunch of chablis-drinking, brie-chomping, elitist liberal bourgeoise snobs?


I expect that from an idiot like McCain, but why would Hillary's camp be so quick to trash the bay area, a MAJOR source of donations for the democratic party?

As a former San Franciscan, I think its shameful that any democrat wouldn't stand up for San Francisco and the outstanding VALUES it represents. Tolerance, universal health care, peace, creativity, mass transit, diversity, community activism, etc. etc.

I think it SUCKS that some people in the Democratic Party would be so quick to throw a great city like San Francisco under the damn bus.

:mad:



I don't think it's right to generalize about people by the region where they live. I'm sure that not all PA folks are bitter gun/god freaks, and I know for a FACT that not all (or even most) SF residents are rich liberal wine n'cheese elitists.

[boston bean]

LET IT SINK all this dem bashing has got to stop. nt

[Armstead]

4. Ask your preferred candidate to stop and it will tone down here

An intellectually honest response would be to ask why Hillary really does keep on repeating that "san Francisco" meme when attacking Obama.

[El Pinko]

7. San Francisco is a solid dem city, so yes, I think democrats should stop bashing it.

I do hope that is what you're saying...

[crispini]

29. "All this dem bashing has got to stop" means "stop bashing Hillary" in your book

because apparently you have NO problem continuing to bash Obama. :eyes:

[Terran]

52. LOL

I find your use of "LET IT SINK" on any thread remotely critical of HRC very amusing, when you yourself post a lot of BS about Obama. Transparent much?

[Warren DeMontague]

55. That's right. Hillary has GOT TO STOP repeating Right Wing Talking Points

And bashing, for instance, the good Democrats of San Francisco.

[BlooInBloo]

1. You understand pandering to mean, stupid bigoted people PERFECTLY...

... Welcome to America.


EDIT: To many "you"s in subject.

[Danger Mouse]

2. it's called 'pandering'.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. because fair and balanced people do it. So there. In other words, BECAUSE.

[Hepburn]

5. Because, IMO, San Francisco is a code word for...

...gay. Unfortunately, there are a ton of homophobes ~~ so this is not frowned upon as it should be.

San Francisco is a beautiful town ~~ I was there two weeks ago ~~ and if it is a gay area, so be it, and let them take the credit for a fabulous city. Fuck the up-tight assholes who hate anything and everyone. The world would be better off without them.

JMHO

[Texas Hill Country]

9. disagree...it is code for ULTRA intellectual liberal. social laissez faire and big bro economics

not something that really goes over well in the rest of the country.

[Cant trust em]

11. that's part of it, but it's mostly the gay

Being from here, invariably every time someone brings up San Francisco stereotypes it's the talk of being the gay capital of America. Not the socialist capital of America.

[Hepburn]

22. Yep, I am from California....

...and for years that is the message that it has conveyed ~~ an area where there is a very high concentration of gays.

Now...there are other areas in Calif that are being targeted as gay areas, too....like Palm Springs. But the biggie is still San Franciso. And a reference to San Francisco values, IMO, usually is interpreted as referring to "gay lifestyle" when the speaker is trying to not appear as a complete homophobic asshole.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. I really hope the GLBT activist community is paying attention to this.

Clinton is demonstrating just how ruthless she will be in the service of her own ambition.

[Hepburn]

34. Very clear to me why Clinton habitually links the bitter remarks...

...made by Obama to San Francisco. It is gay bashing as far as I am concerned. How it comes across to me is: Hillary is pointing at him NOT just because of the bitter remarks, but because he was in San Francisco at a closed meeting with rich gay people.

Maybe it is just because I have lived in California for over 45 years that it the message comes through to me with the gay bashing agenda so very clear on its face...but that is how I saw it. Therefore I found it far more disgusting than just the elitist remarks.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

40. I totally picked up on it when she said it on Sunday's Faith thingy.

I was like WTF? Why did she see the need to say "San Francisco"? It was so obvious that it was intentional.

[Cant trust em]

47. If Obama's comments were made in Pittsburgh there's no way she would have mentioned it

It's intentional the same way saying Barack Hussein Obama is intentional. Fact based, certainly, but we all know why she said it.

[backscatter712]

36. Yep. She just threw the GLBT community under the bus.

Just because she thinks she can get more votes from the Archie Bunkers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. again. nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. What is "social laissez faire" if not another way of saying "gay"?

[Texas Hill Country]

21. not just gay, but that is a factor, sure. it is more than that tho. Hippees, tree huggers, athiest

all of that stuff.


The whole acceptance of every belief thing. Ethical relativism, if you will.

[Hepburn]

25. Well, as a long time Californian, I can tell ya...

...that it is pretty well understood to most Californians that references to San Francisco in a negative fashion are because it has a very high percentage of gays in its population.

[Texas Hill Country]

31. (I have 3 uncles, 1 Aunt and both my parents live in SF... I am familiar) I am just telling you

what I see when I talk to people here in Texas.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. Look, your candidate made a dog whistle reference to gays in order to get bigot votes

A lot of us in the progressive community noticed it. Your attempts to deny it by insulting all kinds of other people - "hippies" "tree huggers" - and by evoking RW memes "big bro government" are not fooling us.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Really? So, what, precisely, is wrong with gays, hippies, tree huggers and atheists?

please. Be specific.

[Texas Hill Country]

44. ok, this is getting silly. nothing imo, but culturally VERY different from midamerica.

and guess what, your friggin candidate agrees.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. My friggin candidate thinks it's okay to sneer at Atheists, Gays, "treehuggers" and hippies?

No, actually, there's only one Democrat who is borrowing from the Right Wing playbook, there.

Oh, and by the way, California has 34 Million people. 1/10th of the US Population. There are a lot more of us than you think. We ARE "Real America".

[Mooney]

53. Those are all GOOD things.

The people who represent those viewpoints are more solidly Dem voters than the "lunch bucket" people (god what a hateful term) that our party has been trying to pander to, who have been voting reliably Republican since Reagan.

This is why I always find it weird when any Democrat starts talking shit about the left-ier elements of the party. I think they have been more reliable Dem voters over the last decade than blue collar workers, who seem to me to vote Republican all the time.

[PVnRT]

17. "Social laissez faire"?

Care to explain what you think that means?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. It means gay. nt

[MattBaggins]

56. Disagree back at ya

it is a classic "code word". It falls into this category because it has a hidden double meaning. It means both so called ultra liberal and is code for gay.

[backscatter712]

13. That's it. Bring that dog whistle down a few octaves.

When Hillary rags on San Francisco, she's pandering to homophobia and anti-gay bigotry.

Again, Hillary's enthusiastically working the Archie Bunker demographic. :eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. I wouldn't even call that a dog whistle. More like a bullhorn.

Amazing some of the stuff I've seen from Clinton supporters on DU. Obviously they're the conservative wing of the party.

[Hepburn]

30. I have always taken anything that is negative toward San Francisco...

...as gay bashing. Real clear to me why Hillary keeps promoting Obama's bitter remarks as having been done in San Francisco.

[Shakespeare]

28. That's it exactly.

And our GLBT friends here who support Clinton because they think she'll do a better job with their issues should take note of this. Clinton will throw any special interest group under the bus out of political expediency. I'm not saying that Obama will be great on GLBT issues, but they're insane for thinking Clinton will be any better.

[grantcart]

32. SF . . . behind closed doors. .. we all know what code words and hot buttons this was about

[Cant trust em]

42. seriously.

Are private fundraisers usually open to the press? This is serious image play here on the part of the Clinton campaign.

[Arugula Latte]

6. Well, McCain is just pandering to his wingnut base, and Hillary is just desperate. nt

[Teaser]

8. I think it's "the gay"

.

[rndmprsn]

10. Say Anything, Do Anything...

winning for them means more than our country winning...period

[Frances]

12. The MSM remembers that when

Jimmy Carter accurately said that Americans were feeling down about Vietnam and its effects he lost to Ronald Reagan who said there was a new morning in America.

Of course, Reagan brought in the philosophy that has resulted in the economic mess we are in today, and you could say is the cause of bitterness.

But Americans have not yet reached the point where they want to give up their belief in the American Dream.

The bitter remark won't sink Obama in my opinion, but it is something that Obama will have to overcome.

[backscatter712]

20. That is a good point, but Obama does have "Yes, we can!" in his arsenal.

He's presenting, probably for the first time in decades, the first realistic appraisal of the American situation that's come from a politician.

While Hillary and McCain are trying to sweep America's problems under the rug and blowing flowers and sunshine up our asses, Obama's come out and talked to us honestly, and talked to us like we're adults for a change, and acknowledging that yes, people are bitter, yes America has some huge problems right now.

But do understand that the other part of the message, which acts as a complement to the honest appraisal, is the message of hope. Yes, We Can!!! Get some decent leadership in the .gov, bring our troops home from Iraq, rework our trade policies so we get a fair shake, get rid of the corruption, put in some programs to bring us better health care, better education, more economic opportunities.

YES, WE CAN!!!

[Frances]

48. You said it well

Obama needs to shift the focus back to Yes we can.

He's in a bit of a bind because the problems do stem from Reagan's philosophy that corporations are good and government is bad. Since Obama wants to be a real uniter, he doesn't want to make this a Dem-Repub contest, even though in my opinion, the Repub philosophy is the cause of the problems.

Obama is more honest and more open than most politicians. I hope that Americans will be able to see this.

[Lucky 13]

14. Because SF is elitist, liberal, and filled with queers.

So naturally a RW candidate like Hillary would slam them. It personally sounds better and better to me by the minute.

[cliffordu]

24. QUEEERS?????

OMFG!!!
OMFG!!!
OMFG!!!
OMFG!!!


We had a NEEEGRO and some QUEEERS in the SAME ROOM???? OMFG!!!!!

IN SAN FRANCISCO!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

omfg omfg omfg SAN FREAKING SISCO!!!!!!


Did you know you can get rubbers there, anywhere? Even in CHURCH, from what I hear!!

omfg!!!!

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS RIGHT NOW!!!!!! ('Cept the lesbians, of course...)

Vote Hillary!!! She'll put a stop to all this saddam 'n gonnorea stuff

[rucky]

26. Get aload of what they've done to Walgreens!

[PVnRT]

18. Yes, it's sad

...when I see Hillary using the same code word that John Hostettler tried to use to get re-elected around here in 2006.

[Eurobabe]

23. the word pandering comes to mind. n/t

[EffieBlack]

33. I've wondered that myself

People seem to think it's fine to trash big cities (especially San Francisco and New York), demean people with education, the "elite," the "Left Coast," etc., yet they scream bloody murder at the thought that a small town or anyone who lives there is not being treated to an nth degree kowtow.

It's particularly amusing to see this attitude being spewed by highly paid, often second-generation, pundits who rarely, if ever interact with any "regular people" - except the few times they make eye contact with the technician who hooks up their wireless mic or brush up against the driver of the town car that ferries them from the studio to their Georgetown dinner parties and then back to their McLean spread for the night.

[El Pinko]

37. The saddest thing is that the same people who pay lip service to the hick mentality...

...are really working consistently AGAINST the hicks' economic best interest via "free trade" and other cheap-labor policies.

[Cosmocat]

51. The success of the Limbaugh revolution ...

The result of a NEVERENDING stream of attacks from the late 80s/early 90s to now, where these things were all being programmed at the "base" level on talk radio, then from the mid 90s to now, where corporate news has allowed brainless right wing lackys to rise to positions of talking heads with the MSM ...

It is a disconnect that they now, after having totally bought into and chanted the talking points for so long, I think they really don't see it for themselves ... Well, those SFs ARE elites and to be mocked ...

[LooseWilly]

54. It goes back further than that...

Back in the late 60s, apparently, famed SF (as in science-fiction/speculative-fiction) author Harlan Ellison was writing articles for the LA Free Press, articles which were collected into a pair of compilations.
"The Glass Teat", and "The Other Glass Teat".
http://www.islets.net/essays/glassteat.htm for some info, or just google the titles.

Way back then he was lamenting the rise of the "yahoo" mindset, I think he called it, that
attacked any "ivory tower" "elitist" people who tried to insult good
God-fearing Americans with all that high brow thinking crap.

I'm just paraphrasing of course... but look back at the articles, and you'll see
that what he was seeing on tv shows and commercials back then, has now apparently
been so internalized around this country, and in political circles, that only occasionally
does it even get questioned now.

And so this is my response, written while sitting across the bay from San Francisco,
in the sunny ghetto of Oakland, with a gun in the next room, and another upstairs...

Candidates like HRC will talk smack about SF because they can take us for granted. And
personally I'm fine with it, because I AM SO ELITIST that I'm not threatened by the likes of
HRC talking smack about us.
Meanwhile, it seems to me, all those small towners in question seem to be a different sort
of elitist. An 'elite' that will brook no criticism, and has such a thin skin that they can't
bear to be 'insulted'.
Personally, I've tried to take to heart the notion of "intellectual integrity", and applied it
to myself by acknowledging that SF is known for its gays, not mention atheists, Satanists,
transvestites, and what all else. I'm fine with that, and with any reference to it. Hell,
I take pride in all the insults. I'm proud to be from a region thought to be "wrong" by so many!

Seems to me that some in the "heartland" just can't bear to have it said that their "virtues"
just don't matter to some of us. Maybe their "culture" insists that they be treated like they're
the center of the world? I could wax philosophically further, but what would be the point?

Remember? Those folks don't like us "elitists" that actually try to use our brains to understand
the world... let alone having to hear the notion that there are other points of view than their own.

[zulchzulu]

35. As a former San Franciscan, I always thought those trashing the City were Repigs

Maybe that's still true...and yes, it's a damn good point.

I was at the Game Opener between the SF Giants and the Milwaukee Brewers last week and while using the men's facilities, some knuckledragger in the crowd said something about how people should look out for San Francisco fans trying to look at them taking a piss, as though all people from SF are gay peeping toms. It's common for Repig assholes to use the SF thing for their "humor"...

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Because, you know, uh, "those" people live there. And "we" know what "we" mean when "we"

talk about, you know, "those" people.

And, I hear that San Francisco bay is really a giant latte. 15 MINUTE HATE!

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. I'm afraid I'm not sure what you're on about...

"Oh c'mon, mate, your wife, hm, does she, does she GO, hmmm? Is she a GOer, eh? Wink wink, nudge nudge, saynomore, hmm?"

-- "Come again... I'm not sure I follow. Have you been drinking?"

"Does she DO the deed, you know, does she GO?"

-- "well, yes, I suppose... whatever that means..."

"um... err... wot's it like?"

[Cant trust em]

41. I'd better not see her face around town in the next few months trying to fundraise

I'll vote for her, but these comments sealed her fate as far as the rest of my activism goes.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

45. I hope the GLBT activist community doesn't let her get away with this. nt

[Barack_America]

46. Because rural voters might vote Republican...

Whereas we liberals are stuck with the Democratic party.

Hence, it's politically safe to insult us.

It's the whole "liberal" is a dirty word, even to Democrats BS.