Obama criticizes Carter on Hamas meeting, tries to reassure Jewish leaders

[Freddie Stubbs]

By BETH FOUHY , Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA - Sen. Barack Obama on Wednesday criticized former President Jimmy Carter for meeting with leaders of the Islamic terrorist group Hamas as he tried to reassure Jewish voters that his candidacy isn't a threat to them or U.S. support for Israel.

The Democratic presidential candidate's comments, made to a group of Jewish leaders here, were his first on Carter's controversial meeting scheduled this week in Egypt.

Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting John McCain called on Obama to repudiate Carter in a speech to The Associated Press Monday.

Obama told the Jewish group he had a "fundamental disagreement" with Carter, who was rebuffed by Israeli leaders during a peace mission to the Middle East this week.

more: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/president/17812719.html

[Taxmyth]

1. why does the word pandering come to mind

Gee, think that might be why he said what he said?

[Texas Hill Country]

3. he didnt seem to criticize his pastor for this specific issue.

[Taxmyth]

4. strange, isn't it

just another politician doing what politicians do. Change. My ass.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. He made is clear that he did not agree with every crackpot statement his pastor made rather than

making a point-by-point refutation.

[Texas Hill Country]

36. no, he spoke pretty specificially about racial justice... not mideastern policy...

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Perhaps he actually believes what he is saying

[izzybeans]

2. Being rebuffed on peace mission and then chastised at home

by presidential candidates...sheesh.

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. His actions merited chastisement

[izzybeans]

50. Ah huh.

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. I do not see any of Clinton's major supporters criticizing Obama for this

I wonder why. :shrug:

[izzybeans]

54. Both candidates are on the wrong side of this issue.

I wonder why.

Obama's position doesn't square with his stated foreign policy goals. You can't have peace without good faith discussions with all parties. Anything less, is less than good faith.

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. Funny how Democratic voters have narrowed it down to two candidates who both agree on this

Perhaps it because the Democratic Party is a pro-Israel party.

[izzybeans]

60. That's irrelevant.

It's what can bring peace that counts. Being pro-peace should be everyone's business.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. Elections have consequences and are therefore relevant

Carrying protest signs and participating in drum circles aren't likely to bring about change.

[izzybeans]

66. No but taking your discussion to your enemy is far more effective than

bombs, tanks, barricades, or walls.

A bullet never stopped a war.

[anonymous171]

5. I am disappointed but not all that shocked.

From what I've seen on RW sites it looks like the GOP's strategy against Obama is to start a "Jewish Flight" from the party using issues like Israel and Terrorism to draw the Jewish vote away from Obama. This was obviously McCain's attempt at making Obama look "soft on terrorist groups that attack Israel."

[redqueen]

7. Agreed. (nt)

[bettyellen]

55. Obama NEVER HAD the "Jewish vote", LOL... he's "hoping" to get it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Jewish voters have consistantly supported the Democratic nominee

[bettyellen]

67. sorry Freddie, Jewish voters who care about Isreal aren't going for him, and I hate to tell you

this is where the Madrassa / Islam bullshit is hurting him bigtime. It's awful, but it had legs in the Jewish community.

[Larkspur]

6. Hopefully, this new Jewish PAC will challenge the militant AIPAC

For Israel’s Sake, Moderate American Jews Must Find Their Voice
SNIP
For the sake of Israel, the United States and the world, it is time for American political discourse to re-engage with reality. Voices of reason need to reclaim what it means to be pro-Israel and to establish in American political discourse that Israel’s core security interest is to achieve a negotiated two-state solution and to define once and for all permanent, internationally-recognized borders.

SNIP

Somehow, for American politicians or activists to express opposition to settlement expansion — or support for active American diplomacy, dialogue with Syria or engagement with Iran — has become subversive and radical, inviting vile, hateful emails and a place on public lists of Israel-haters and antisemites. For the particularly unlucky, it leads to public, personal attacks on one’s family and heritage.

Enough.

In early 21st-century America, the rules of politics are being rewritten, and conventional political orthodoxy is clearly open to once-inconceivable challenges.

It is time for the broad, sensible mainstream of pro-Israel American Jews and their allies to challenge those on the extreme right who claim to speak for all American Jews in the national debate about Israel and the Middle East — and who, through the use of fear and intimidation, have cut off reasonable debate on the topic.

A new political movement is a necessity not just for Israel but for the heart and soul of the American Jewish community. By and large, we are a progressive community, among the most liberal in the United States. Over the decades, we have been at the forefront of many civil rights, social justice and other causes. Many of us proudly regard that legacy as a defining cornerstone of the Jewish place in American history.
SNIP

Jeremy Ben-Ami is executive director of J Street and of JStreetPAC.

[redqueen]

8. That is very encouraging.

[TankLV]

9. gee - he's all for Carter except when he's against him...

question is - does obama HAVE a mind at all?!?!

this guy is NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME...

[uponit7771]

11. McSame and Hillary are?...k....already...k

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. They are probably in agreement with Obama on this

Opposing a terrorist organization like Hamas is a no-brainer.

[uponit7771]

10. What is Obama's "fundamental disagreement"? I don't see his angle on this one

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Probably on wheather or not is is a good idea to meet with terrorist leaders

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Politics, disgustingly, as usual.

[EFerrari]

14. Yup. And the majority of Israelis agree with President Carter

not with their RW government or with Obama.

[redqueen]

15. What was it that his surrogate said at that forum, in front of a Jewish audience,

which was met with silence?

Argh...

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. One would think that this 'majority' would elect a more dovish Knesset

[LooseWilly]

21. They tried that once.

It didn't work out so well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

He managed to arrange a peace with the Palestinians, and then he was assassinated by
a right wing zionist Israeli.

From what I understand, the furor over the assassination led to renewed
hostilities toward the palestinians, and renewed settlement of supposedly
Palestinian lands... somehow the fact that the assassin was a right-wing
Israeli extremist didn't seem to register.

Hmm... right wing extremists who assassinate any leader who
tries to make peace with "the enemy", so that war will know no end...
You suppose there might also be some "cross-pollination" of ideas
between those right wingers and the right wing evangelists here in the
US?

Just some thoughts planted in my head by an Israeli ex-girlfriend. Maybe, if
the Israelis would stop killing the leaders who're willing to consider a
cessation of expanding settlements into Palestinian territories, maybe
"terrorist" groups like Hamas would consider re-thinking the apparent
policy of "Live Free or Die".
Ohh, sorry.. that's New Hampshire.
I meant "Death to Israel".

[uponit7771]

23. I remember that guy, wish he would've been more careful...he had to know change doesn't come easy

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. Menachem Begin signed a peace treaty with Egypt and died of natural causes 13 years later

[LooseWilly]

29. Maybe there's a point to be drawn from that.

Hmm, signed peace treaty with Egypt. Subsequently, never went into Egypt to
build settlements for Israelis. Peace still stands. Begam wasn't assassinated.

Wasn't Carter involved in that peace treaty's realization?

Meanwhile, he tries some of those same old tricks, you know, diplomacy, and
now he's reviled for it? What is it then, exactly, that's so different between
diplomacy with a state that had gone to war with Israel, versus diplomacy with a
group like Hamas?... bearing in mind that Hamas did win elections, which does make
it a legitimate government entity, to the extent that Palestine is judged to be a
legitimate state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_members_of_Palestinian_Legislative_Counc
(notice Gaza is majority Hamas legislature, Hebron entirely so... )

[EFerrari]

30. I don't know anything about their election systems.

You'd also think we wouldn't have "re-elected" Junior. :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. It is a multi-party parliamentary representative democratic republic

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Or perhaps it is just Obama saying what he actually beleives

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. I certainly hope not.

I think that Obama will, most likely, become the next president. I hope his policies regarding the middle east will differ sharply from what we have had in the past.

But, I doubt it. I have no hope that Clinton or McLunatic will do anything other than the usual kneejerk support of Israel.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. So, you are hoping that he is a liar?

:shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Of course. A not unusual trait in any politician.

As well illustrated by his opponent.

[my3boyz]

16. I had a feeling he was leaning this way because when he was

asked about it the other day he said he was not going to comment on what a private citizen did. If he agreed with him I think he would have said it then. I hope this does not cause Carter to shift his support.

[uponit7771]

24. He prolly should've left it at that IMHO. I don't see Hamas as unreachable

[Warren DeMontague]

25. While I understand the need to talk to one's enemies, Hamas has the destruction of Israel as a

core stated goal.

So I'm really not sure what they're supposed to talk about.

[treestar]

63. Why would they make their goals more moderate when no one will

talk to them? If they are willing to talk, then talks should happen.

All negotiators take a stance greater than what they expect to get.

[jackson_dem]

26. What is Obama's position? He will meet with Ahmadenijad but not HAMAS?

His hailed "meet with everybody policy"=just words? What is the difference between the two, aside from the significant fact that Ahmadenijad's country may some day have the power to accomplish what it says regarding Israel?

[Mags]

33. quiet there, they can't face the truth.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. Hamas' charter calls for the destruction of Israel

Is there such a clause in Iran's constitution?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

32. Everytime he starts to make headway...

with me, he does something like this. :(

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Fortunately for him California has already had its primary

[BootinUp]

35. lol nt

[cornermouse]

37. Isn't criticizing Jimmy Carter about his various efforts at

promoting peace a republican thing?

[Indenturedebtor]

38. Carter has as much praised Hamas murder

I defend his speed limit thing though. Oh and the Egypt Israel peace treaty was a good thing especially for Egypt... they were getting their asses handed to them.

Hamas's core mission statement is basically "Kill the Jews, leave none left alive in the Middle East". Um kinda hard to get them to change their mission statement. I'm not against someone trying but um, he's just not the right guy to do it. I don't know if you're aware of this but he came out with this book a little while back that basically called Israel the most evil country on the planet.

Him going over there now isn't going to help the situation and he shouldn't have gone. I have fundamental differences with Carter as well. GOBAMA :bounce:

[cornermouse]

39. Ahhhh......

I guess this makes Jimmy Carter the enemy, the source of all evil, in a pact with the devil, and someone to be kicked out the democratic party as quickly as possible by Obama's supporters. Does that pretty well cover the Obama mob that's forming even now?

[BootinUp]

40. Carter is one of the few people in existence

that could actually make a difference in the Israeli Palestinian negotiations. Obama on the other hand just signaled that there will be no progress made during his term should he get one.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. The Democratic Party is fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel

The Democratic Party is fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel
and the creation of a comprehensive, just and lasting peace between Israel and her neighbors. Our
special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual
commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative edge for its national security and its right to self-defense. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths.

[cornermouse]

43. There you have it.

Jimmy Carter is now an enemy of the people. :sarcasm:

Are there any other democrats that we should declare persona non grata?

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. No one said that he was an enemy or persona non grata

Just that he was wrong.

[McCamy Taylor]

41. Obama is a wimp. Show some political conviction. Those poor Palestinians are victims.

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. Are the suicide bombers sent by Hamas victims too?

:shrug:

[ruggerson]

46. I'm glad he's doing this - makes me like him more

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. There are a lot more voters who will support this than oppose this

[rucky]

51. Carter is doing the right thing. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Apparently Senator Obama does not think that is the case.

But what does he know? He's only a Senator and the likely Democratic nominee for President.

[rucky]

62. They're allowed to disagree.

as I am allowed to support Obama despite this move.

We are nowhere near a progressive Israel policy, IMHO, and I don't expect everybody to follow Carter's lead right off the bat. I do know that the "no talk" policy seems to lead to more terror.

[Bluebear]

64. --

[SeaLyons]

65. Oh, the webs we weave....

politics as usual.