I think it is now personal for Hillary and Bill

[dansolo]

More and more I get the impression that Hillary and Bill's bizarre behavior, and their absolute refusal to see the writing on the wall, even at the expense of the Democratic party, is because they have taken Obama's candidacy personally. Not only has Obama had the gall to run against her and beat her, but he has also been quite vocal in criticizing Bill's presidency as well. That, more than anything, must be pissing them both off. Right now, it seems to me that their only objective is to make Obama lose. I don't believe that she is trying to appeal to superdelegates anymore, and I don't think that her intention is to make John McCain win, or even to set up a run in 2012. Her only goal at this point is to do as much damage to Obama as she can, and she will stay in as long as she can possibly justify it to do so.

[DevonRex]

1. Personal to their bank account and lust for power. n/t

[polpilot]

16. Hillary 'standing by her man' was to no avail if she's not elected president..

It was a mistake to stay with this serial adulterer/sociopath and the presidency was her way to justify it.....and of course to 'forgive' and eh 'forgive'..and 'to understand'.

[jasmine621]

34. I can't believe that a true Dem is saying this stuff.

Hillary is criticized for keeping her family together under the most publically humiliating circumstances. Bill crime was no worse than a million husbands' in this nation. He happened to be President at the time. He is not a wife beater, child abuser, drunk or any of the other things through which many women choose to stick by their husbands. Hillary is smeared, called the "B" word, attacked by the left and the right and has ascribed to her the most sinister of motives. The media and the RW and a good deal of the public along with fellow Dems were always against the Clintons for their ease with folks that others shunned. Bill was criticized for being a "N....." lover, Hillary was criticized for forgiving her husband's extra-marital affairs, and Chelsea was ridiculed and slammed just for being their child.

This has been and still is some sick shit. I never thought the sickest of the sick would be fellow Dems.

[keep_it_real]

19. But perhaps most important

<snip>

Clinton understands that if Barack Obama is elected, his presidency becomes an asterisk.

It's less about the historic nature of the first black president, a title once bestowed on Clinton by writer Toni Morrison, than it is the levers of power Obama would have at his command. If Obama wins in November he'll have a majority in the Senate close to 60, and at least 15 more seats in the House, numbers that signal a true governing mandate from the people. Clinton was forced to play defense, too often settling for mainly symbolic gestures like advocating school uniforms when only two years into his term the Republicans won control of both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years. Clinton knows that through the long view of history, he'll be viewed a lot less positively if the bridge he set about building to the next century leads to a president with the ability to overshadow him legislatively, as opposed to one who carries on his name and legacy.

~~Why Clinton Is Fighting So Hard
http://www.newsweek.com/id/131524

[LisaM]

2. What's Obama's MO with the constant criticism of the Clinton administration?

He's been doing it for months. It's quite negative, yet no one calls him on it. It started with his Reagan comments.

[melody]

5. Because he's an actual Democrat versus the Clinton's DLC "Democratic Lite" model

His Reagan comments I complained about loudly, but they were nothing next to the crap the Clinton machine
is now spewing.

[LisaM]

18. He and she are both centrist.

Too much so for my taste.

[melody]

20. Then why are you supporting the more right wing of the two?

I find that odd.

[greguganus]

21. Maybe because she's a woman. n/t

[melody]

25. I'm a woman. I'm an Obama supporter n/t

[LisaM]

23. I find her health care plan to be to the left of his

And I also find her educational plan (for example, scrap NCLB) to be to the left of his.

I also think (though I know he has a high NARAL rating) that she is better on choice. When they were eached asked about abortion during that faith thingie the other night, the very first thing that came out of his mouth was "I think we need to focus on abstinence education". He made additional statements (including "age appropriate sex education" in the schools), talked about the right to choose, but it struck me that he thought abstinence education was the approach when it has failed so demonstrably.

[melody]

26. Fair enough, but I'm looking at all the issues

I also think we need to get away from pro-corporate Democrats and I'm afraid Hillary and Bill typify them.

[LisaM]

29. I think Hillary is to the left of Bill on this.

They're all too pro corporate for my liking. However, I'll add one more thing. My dad taught his whole career in public schools, and Obama has also said he thinks that we can't rule out money for charter schools. I am vehemently opposed to public funding for charter schools or vouchers and I don't like his stance on this. Public education is one of my hot button issues.

[melody]

35. That's one area I truly disagree with Obama on. I went to a private school.

On subsidy, but I know the experience too well. My candidate was Edwards.

That said, Obama is the de facto nominee. Supporting Clinton now, for me, only undermines the Democratic Party.

[PM7nj]

7. There was a lot of good during the Clinton year, but a lot of bad as well...

NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Telecom Deregulation, Welfare Reform.... just to name a few

[melody]

11. Exactly -- so many people under 45 don't know what it's like to have a pro-populist President

They think what Clinton doled out was "good".

They don't remember the Johnson years. I grew up in Jerry Brown's California. It was a much nicer place.

[cliffordu]

17. Get a grip. FAIL

[Diamonique]

30. I think I know...

"What's Obama's MO with the constant criticism of the Clinton administration?"

Hillary has been running on her "experience" and citing the Clinton administration as part of her resume. So in order to counter that, Obama is reminding people that not everything was great during that administration. If she wasn't using those years as her resume, I doubt he'd have much to say about it. Except for NAFTA... that one would have to be brought up during this campaign no matter whose administration was in charge when it was passed.

[krkaufman]

40. Probably has to do with Bill Clinton discarding his progressive promises ...

... and mostly governing as a free marketeer and economic conservative.

[bigwillq]

3. Bill wants the WH again so badly

so he could kind of "make up" for some of the things that went wrong the first time around. That's why, imo, I think he's so passionate about Hillary winning.

[sniffa]

4. Oh, now you done it

NOW ITS PERSNL

I think Bill's taking it even more personally since Obama is now including his administration as part current problems. He's got a legacy to protect... and to stop from being tarnished further by this current campaign.

[kwenu]

6. They passed the personally embarrassing marker weeks ago.

[0007]

10. Perhaps months ago.

[karynnj]

8. I think it personal - but for another reason

Around the time of SC, one of the talk shows quoted an anonymous Clinton friend (yeah, I know) saying that he Bill knew that he was hurting his reputation with the stuff he pulled then, but that he saw HRC's win as a chance to improve their legacy. The loss in reputation because of how he was acting would be reversed in a HRC Presidency. That is was a gamble but a gamble he knew they'd win.

The problem is that just as double or nothing gets gamblers in trouble, as the Clintons' approvals sink, they gamble more - and it leads to things getting worse.

[PoliticalAmazon]

15. A bad Hillary trait: the overcoming need for revenge even if it harms her along the way. n/t

[americanstranger]

9. And their supporters, too, to a large degree.

some of the posts in here this minute are noting but immature attempts at revenge.

It ain't even about the presidential race any more. Now it's all about payback.

- as

[Lucky 13]

22. In many cases, I completely agree. nt

[cui bono]

12. Yes, Bill's legacy is on the line as well. Obama as president makes him a mere president.

Hillary as president marks them as going down in history as the first couple to both have been president, first woman... etc....

With the state of the country as it is now, Obama will at the very least begin a turnaround. And seeing as how NAFTA was Bill's policy and we all know it shipped our jobs out of the country, and Obama wants to change that, history will be a little more harsh on the Clinton presidency than most Dems are right now. He was not that great of a president, as can be seen now.

[SoCalDem]

13. very often the old lion ends up fighting to the death

over his pride, when a younger lion gets up the nerve to challenge him..If the young lion is lucky enough to avoid mortal wounds, he will now be the Big Lion on Campus, but if he get injured by the old lion on his way out, a third male will swoop in and take over the pride..

just sayin'

[PoliticalAmazon]

14. They are both so jealous of the Obams it is destroying them. n/t

[BootinUp]

24. The sky is falling too!

Look out!!!!!!!

[knixphan]

27. a dying animal is deadly...

[Why Syzygy]

28. It is absolutely ALL they (almost) have. (pic)

[Bucky]

31. That's sweet actually. They have each other. Plus, they have this...

I call this trend "experience"

[Quixote1818]

32. I agree. nt

[BlooInBloo]

33. My own person guess is that Bill can't wait for Hilarity to get out so he can work for Obama.

[kenny blankenship]

36. "It's not enough to succeed-

others must fail." -La Rochefoucauld

[Exilednight]

37. I think Bill is scared that Obama will take away some of Bill's big money speech gigs after........

he leaves the Presidency.

[Raine]

38. yup & unfortunately whatever good reputation Bill

still had after the Monica scandal he's destroyed with his actions on the campaign trail.

[krkaufman]

39. I've evolved to that opinion, as well, but with another motivating factor.

Obama must lose for the DLC to retain its minimal relevance. If Obama wins in November, the days of DLC dominance in the Democratic Party are over, so Clinton's campaign is acting as a proxy for the DLC in attacking Obama.

[OneBlueSky]

41. it's ALWAYS personal for Bill and Hillary . . . always was, always will be . . . n/t

.