*********OFFICIAL DEBATE THREAD #4**********

[VenusRising]

Thread 1 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5534858

Thread 2 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5535232

Thread 3 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5535748&mesg_id=5535748



ABC News Network Programming Feedback

http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346

[babylonsister]

1. Thank you! nt

[K Gardner]

73. Posting direct email in case anyone wants it: [e-mail],

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Kick

[uponit7771]

3. Good, ending Obama

[OzarkDem]

4. Woah, they didn't like Obama talk of invading Iran

[muryan]

10. I didnt hear the word invade

I am being treated to Hillary the hunter/warhawk though.

[PM7nj]

You mean your imaginary friends didn't like it?

[DerekJ]

5. Why does ISRAEL have to come up on every God damn debate?!!

[Yael]

17. Focus groups say that there are lots of Jews in PA (and apparently we all think the same)

[Leftist Agitator]

51. I hate that.

I was just arguing with another DUer about Israel vis-a-vis the opinions and politics of American Jews, and was basically told that the anti-Likud American Jews that I know who favor a brokered settlement with Hamas/Palestinians are self-hating stereotypes.

You've gotta love rightist Israel-can-do-no-wrong types...

:eyes:

[Leftist Agitator]

21. I think we all know the answer to that.

Israel became America's de facto 51st state in 2001, because "9/11 changed everything".

:eyes:

Sorry, Puerto Rico, Israel beat ya to the punch.

[crankychatter]

25. US Israel Policy is the ONLY foreign Nation to get a formal PLANK in the DNC Platform

in fact our plank includes Jerusalem as the capital of israel without regard to previous treaties

[sabbat hunter]

139. well since

Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city back in 1947, but then abrogatted their duty by not stopping Jordan from taking it over. Between 1947-1967 no Jews were allowed in to the old city. After Israel captured it in 1967 all religions have been allowed in to pray at their various holy sites. In no treaty was Jerusalem ever supposed to belong to a Palestine.

Status quo for jerusalem is teh best way to go. Israel controls the city, and it is its capital (whether we recognize it or not, it is reality). The various religions have authority over their holy sites.

There are no previous treaties regarding jerusalem being the capital of Israel.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Straight Shooter]

164. Because Israel is an important ALLY in the Mideast.

A democratic ally. JMHO.

[Hardrada]

170. I prefer allies that don't napalm our spook ships

and aren't albatrosses around our necks vis a vis foreign policy.

[Straight Shooter]

171. I would also like to live in an ideal world.

But we don't. We never will. Adapt.

[Hardrada]

174. I know. Periodically Christian civilization has to.

Adapt.

[GoesTo11]

6. Hillary wasn't fed the questions, she wrote them.

[crankychatter]

7. I'm just heartsick... but the MIC and MSM are in a panic

... apparently the American People are not eating up their slop

[truedelphi]

165. Heartsick here as well. Mike Gravel outlined all of this in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK7DRPyNAHA

it's great music but also a great lesson about the debates and how the candidates are framed and HOW THE FRAMING WORKS

You are Free!! To do as we tell you!!

Notice who gets the most debate time. (Hint - begins with an H just as the expression "that is a hell of a thing to do to a dmeocracy" begins with H..

Notice that EVEN IN THE FRIGGIN' ADS for the debate, the H candidate (with "H" for Hell) gets to be in the foreground - leading the way as it were - while obama is off in the distance.

It ahs been obvious since the first debate who the Powers that Be want and it sure ain't Obama.

[anonymous171]

8. omg Clinton is outlining some kind of hawk/neocon foreign policy

[DUyellow]

9. American Idol is on now... What do i do?

[rug]

14. Attack Paula.

[Inspired]

They are kind of the same show, don't you think?

[bullwinkle428]

45. Elimination doesn't happen until the last 5 minutes...

this will be long over by then!

[VenusRising]

How much do you like Mariah Carey and her songs?

:shrug:

[Phoonzang]

11. Oooo...she says she'll protect MORE countries.

Not just Israel, but MORE. UMBRELLA!!

[Connie_Corleone]

12. Warrior Princess Hillary on massive response on Iran

[rodeodance]

Hill was so presidental---while BHO was joe-six pack--didn't know what was going on

[gateley]

13. Just got here - I think Hillary is doing better than I thought she would, Obama's not at his best. n

[oviedodem]

You have no idea how low Hilliary sunk tonight.

[gateley]

168. Not sure I agree.

We'll have to see. As I said, she performed better than I thought she would.

I was frankly hoping that Obama would totally dominate. But if I'm being truthful and objective, he didn't. They both had their plusses and minuses.

[dhill926]

47. unfortunately...I agree, at least on that question

[Tatiana]

15. Thanks for starting this. Had to send out a mass email regarding ABC's bullshit attempted ambush. nt

[VenusRising]

46. No problem at all.

I think this is my last thread for the day. Good use of it, I think.

I wrote ABC, too.

:hi:

[panAmerican]

16. Oh NOW she wants a diplomatic process to engage Iran?!

[babylonsister]

22. Sounds like Obama. Funny that. nt

[anonymous171]

18. She mentioned 9/11 again. She's sounding more and more like America's Mayor

[Dawgs]

19. Hillary, "911", "911", "911"

'BTW, John McCain is a great American'

[Dinger]

20. Wish They Would Have Started Talking Issues An Hour Ago

Instead, they had to fan the flames for most of that 1st hour. It's not going to do us any good this November, especially when it comes to undecided voters, which there are still plenty of.

[crispini]

28. Fan the flames? They were just flinging poo.

What a pair of shit-stirrers. Call yourselves journalists? NO!

[Dinger]

49. Big Media Has No Interest In Being Fair

and I lay this in their lap, not Hillary's or Barack's. They're already warming up for November. Preparing to steal another election.
God, I hope I'm wrong.

[Mobius]

173. They can't

Obama will win by too great of a margin.
McCain will do something stupid and go on some kind of rampage.
He will crack, I am telling you. :pals:

[BadgerKid]

42. Seems as if MSM doesn't want to wake up Amer.Idol viewers. n/t

[BadgerKid]

169. I want to apologize to AI fans; I said it wrongly.

I was frustrated that ABC/the debate mods/MSM was again acting as if to draw people away from politics by avoiding the more pertinent issues. They gave viewers a reason to give up and flip the channel. I really don't have issues with AI or its viewers.

[GoesTo11]

Hey Obama, can we get you to commit now what you'll do under vague future circumstances?

[rug]

27. Perhaps.

[babylonsister]

Can he tell what the future will bring? Anyone who spouts

what they'll do given the uncertainty of the future is full of poop.

[calmblueocean]

Hillary is the new Giuliani -- 9/11, 9/11, 9/11.

It's the 2004 Republican convention all over again.

[billyoc]

23. "Goddess of Peace" threatens massive retaliation.

:rofl:

[oviedodem]

24. protection of the big OIL states what a shock!!!

[tishaLA]

26. Well, the smear session seems to have ended temporarily

So now they will let Hillary talk and talk and talk and talk

[spanone]

29. fuck you john mccain

[meow mix]

30. wow taxes.. its a miracle

they didnt even cover hillarys drinking

[uponit7771]

31. Hour and 40 minutes and they are JUST getting to the economy!!

[nashville_brook]

37. and they wonder why we're bitter.

[Thepricebreaker]

38. 1 hour and 5 mins...

[Yael]

Eh? It started at 8

[SaveAmerica]

60. "The economy is the #1 issue in America today... so we'll talk about lapel pins"

[Levgreee]

32. and Hillary cackles...

[grantcart]

33. number one issue and they start with all of this other bullshit

[uponit7771]

40. Hey, Ayers and Wright could control the mind of Obama via remote control /sarcasm

[SaveAmerica]

65. That's what I said, way to make yourself look like more of an idiot George!

[bullwinkle428]

34. Georgie : "WAAHHHHHH!! DON'T TAKE AWAY MY TAX CUTS!"

[uponit7771]

50. RIGHT!! Why the fuck she he care!!?!

[AlinPA]

35. She laughed hard at the McCain "audacity of hope" line that he used to bash Obama.

[spanone]

43. i think he was bashing both of them

[kikiek]

103. Because McCain mispronounced it. He sounded like Bush. Obama smiled himself.

[crispini]

36. Yes, let's have a SANE tax bracket.

Yay Hillary!

Thank GOD we're talking about issues again.

I hate those moderators with the heat of a thousand white hot suns.

[crankychatter]

39. 2/3rds of this Debate were Clinton SPIN on Obama's "electability"

with no reference to the actual national polls

[crankychatter]

48. This no taxes question was CLEARLY rehearsed

this debate is a sham

of course, you knew that

[crispini]

41. And she mentions the website again! LOL nt

[Yael]

44. Hillary ho'ing the website #2

[anonymous171]

52. Obama: "I was the first to say we should CUT their taxes." NICE

[Stephanie]

53. How you're going to PAY for everything, Hillary? You can't pay your own CAMPAIGN's INSURANCE BILLS

Nobody gives a SHIT about your PLANS when you've already PROVEN you can't even manage your own damn CAMPAIGN.

[Yael]

57. Well, there is that. LOL!

[Tactical Progressive]

54. As always, Hillary's foreign policy chops blows Obama into the weeds

His foreign policy 'experience' (from when he was 10) comes right out of a briefing book.

And it shows.

[Colobo]

58. He's gonna be the nominee, like it or not.

[uponit7771]

59. She has more exposure but who can believe her?

[oviedodem]

62. "It's the economy stupid".

[book_worm]

72. exactly what foreign policy experience does she have?

dodging phony bullets in Bosnia?

[ShortnFiery]

159. Yeah, she'd be another threatening bully ... nothing would get done.

:eyes:

[oviedodem]

55. Obama is internally LIVID, you have to be at this crap.

[SaveAmerica]

88. I respect how calm he's remained with this firing squad around him, I've wanted to smack

someone.

[nashville_brook]

56. pain trickles up

[aaronbees]

74. good line from Obama

And also absolutely spot on.

[DUyellow]

61. anybody have the weblink to the live video with the reaction line?

[blonndee]

Here

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/livemedia?section=news/politics&id=6083174

[DUyellow]

81. Thanks!

[rug]

67. here

http://a.abclocal.go.com/wpvi/livemedia?section=news/politics&id=6083174

[DUyellow]

82. Thanks!

[grantcart]

63. absolute pledge is like junior high - who knows what emergencies might arise

George is really talkling like a child

[rug]

75. Like the virginity pledge.

[GoesTo11]

64. Summary so far

1) What do Obama and Clinton think of Bittergate
2) What do Obama and Clinton think of Wrightgate
3) What do Obama and Clinton think of Obama's hating America
4) What do Obama and Clinton think of Obama's being unelectable
5) What do Obama and Clinton think about Obama's support of domestic terrorists
6) What do Obama and Clinton think about Obama's being a Marxist
7) What does Clinton think about International Policy (Obama has already used his time)
8) What do Obama and Clinton think about Obama's hating Israel
9) What does Clinton think about Economic Policy (Obama has already used his time)
10) What do Obama and Clinton think about Obama's raising taxes and Bill Clinton's cutting taxes?

[crispini]

71. SNORT. That's pretty close. nt

[crankychatter]

77. excellent post, keep tracking... ABC should be sued

this is an abomination

[Stephanie]

You forgot, What do Obama and Clinton think about Obama's not wearing a flag pin.

[nashville_brook]

86. spot on.

[Labors of Hercules]

66. Obama's the MAN.

but he needs to quit smoking.

[high density]

68. WOW!!!

Gibson is in obvious FULL RIGHT WING MODE!! Right wing tax statements coming from the damn moderator.

[Yael]

69. Dem bashing on Capital Gains tax. Is this a primary debate or a GE debate?

[bullwinkle428]

100 million? Nice scam with the numbers, Charlie...

[nashville_brook]

76. bubbles make lots of capital gains

[calmblueocean]

93. Exactly. You don't pull your economic statistics from an economic bubble like the Dotcom Daze.

Not that the media is going to stop repeating that right wing talking point.

[nashville_brook]

i'm surprised neither of the candidates picked up on that

[edhopper]

70. I'm reading the comments on ABC.com

people are saying what bullshit the questions are and why is a former Clinton employee asking questions.

[crispini]

79. Is there a link to leave comments?

Could you post it? :D

[uponit7771]

80. Yeap, on both sides of this debate it's obvious the questions stank

[rodeodance]

78. Hillary is tops on foreign policy--Obama wonked!!

[Madam Mossfern]

83. Is this a debate between candidates or

a grilling of the moderators of one candidate/

[uponit7771]

87. Again, she might have more exposure but she's a liar, who can believe her?

[crankychatter]

how did you get out of my dumpster?

.

[Yael]

108. We are in fuckstick mode #6 right now because of traffic.

[kikiek]

149. She is tops on everything. She is smart, concise, and the best candidate by far. No matter

what anyone else says I know this to be true!

[high density]

Charles Gibson is the biggest moron I have ever seen moderate a debate

He puts Tweety, Russert, Blitzer all to shame...

[crispini]

84. Ah, Obama really knows the issues. This guy is SMOKING. And he attacks McCain.

Weehee!

[stillrockin]

85. Gibson, you don't know JACK about economics.

[uponit7771]

94. ...and then tried to be confrontational with 3 instances of data!! As if he knows the total trend!!

[high density]

96. He's never heard of "past peformance may not equal future results"

I can't believe how bad he was on the capital gains tax question. The fact checkers are going to have a field day with that one.

[crankychatter]

89. They're debating him... then inviting Clinton to kick in

pure and simple, eh?

[Madam Mossfern]

98. Yup

He won't whine that they are 'piling on' though.

[Poll_Blind]

109. Yup. n/t

PB

[anonymous171]

90. OMG she's playing the 90's card.

[crispini]

91. Oh GOD my ignore list has gone away!!!!

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

[SaveAmerica]

106. Thanks for the laugh!! Have a drink, some ice cream or something!!

:hug:

[high density]

110. yes I know

I am sad about it too.

[rug]

111. Here!

[crispini]

115. Snort! nt

[BeyondGeography]

92. Charlie Gibson wants billionaires to be taxed at the 15% cap. gains rate

It's soooooooooo important to him.

[uponit7771]

RIGHT!! Then tried to be confrontational with it!

[GOTV]

95. Can someone source or explain that Capital Gains tax cut claim?

That revenue increases as rates are cut?

[crispini]

99. Source: Gibson's Ass. (4/16/08)

Sorry. It had to be done. :hi:

[nashville_brook]

105. it's a false association -- people have been taking giant capital gains because stocks/real estate

went thru the roof.

no profit taking -- no capital gains. when the super rich get richer, mui capital gains.

[GOTV]

157. Can that be proved in some way? Is there data that would show that?

I know I'll hear this fact in the future.

[edhopper]

97. Gibson doesn't know what he's talking about

Bush cut taxes and revenues went down. Krugman has shown this.

[OzarkDem]

100. Good feedback when Hillary talks of Clinton economy

even better when she talks of her ideas about the economy. Much better than Obama.

[thewiseguy]

107. I thought I had you on ignore?!

[Yael]

101. Hillary just kissed Rendell's ass on national teevee. He must have a boner right about now.

[Inspired]

123. Too funny!

[Hepburn]

131. Yeah...but even if he did....

...he could not look down and see it! :evilgrin:

[anonymous171]

102. Were they laughing at Clinton's Rendell ass kissing?

[Yael]

114. Dead silence. All night (except a few jokes. HRC pulled a good laugh earlier)

[Willo]

104. They ask Clinton the real questions and then ask Obama if he agrees with the obvious.

Talk about sabotage
She is being fed and he is being slaughtered

[Madam Mossfern]

117. Thank you for getting a slight dig in Obama

Why is Charlie arguing with Obama and not Clinton?

[Willo]

112. and for pete's sake, the moderator's interrupt and argue with hiim

[Yael]

128. He had to interrupt to ask if he could complete his thought. Unbelievable.

[Subdivisions]

113. Are they debating each other or the moderators? Fuck you charlie! n/t

[Subdivisions]

119. SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIE HOLE CHARLIE!!1! N/T

[rgbecker]

116. Pay only for the programs you want......

Republicans fund their own war, I'll pay for national parks!

[Yael]

118. FUCK -- Gibson is debating Obama. RW trash

[AlinPA]

120. Gibson is debating Obama on taxes.

[high density]

121. Charles Gibson is making this personal with Obama

It's clear he doesn't like his proposed tax policies. Gibson must have a fuckload of unrealized gains he's ready to offload next year or something.

[Hepburn]

142. Truly a whore of the worst ilk. He is suppose to moderate...

...not debate! :puke:

[uponit7771]

122. STFU Gibson!!!!

[rug]

135. LET IT SINK!!!!!1!!!11

[aaronbees]

124. Gibson playing for the GOP team

Absolutely biased, argumentative on issues that are bullshit.

[spanone]

133. absolutey his bias is obvious

[michaz]

125. Is Hillary running or Bill?

[AlinPA]

130. Sounds like Gibson is running!!

[babylonsister]

146. No kidding! nt

[anonymous171]

126. Clinton: 90's 90's 90's 90's 90's

[OzarkDem]

138. Audience responds very positively to it

every time Hillary talks about the economy under Clinton/Gore the graph goes waaay up.

[anonymous171]

145. Expectable, since they are thinking about Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

[GoesTo11]

127. A man who keeps this cool during an ambush should answer the phone at 3AM

Can you imagine standing there and not just yelling at Charlie and George what I know you want to yell at them?

I am amazed at his composure.

[nashville_brook]

137. AMEN to that!

[babylonsister]

141. He always has; that's coolness under pressure. Sounds good to me. nt

[Tinksrival]

129. ELECT ME!

I'm Bill's wife!

[babylonsister]

132. Clinton riding on big dawg's coattails; it benefits her at the moment.

:eyes:

[Lisa0825]

134. She can't have it both ways!

BURRRRN! :rofl:

[futureliveshere]

136. OOH.... SLAM DUNK ON THE TAXES

[WillieDee]

167. Hillary never makes eye contact

WTF is up with that? She's looking up at the lights, at her podium, at anything other than those to whom she is speaking.

Obama always maintains eyes contact as he responds. He is honest; he is trustworthy.

He has won my vote tonight, though he had it already. It's an off night for him, he's been placed in front of a firing squad, and yet he remains warm and straightforward.

FUCK YOU HILLARY.

[uponit7771]

140. She thinks people are stupid, still pandering to LIVs on taxes

[Levgreee]

143. that was a really nice response by Obama on the commission

[panAmerican]

Clinton just credited Reagan and Tip O'Neil for Social Security approach in 1983

Helllloooo? Didn't they nearly crucify Obama for acknowledging Reagan's impact on life as we know it?

[futureliveshere]

144. Oh.. SO now Hillary thinks REAGEN had a GOOD Idea? Why pile on Obama then?

[GoesTo11]

147. HRC "there are more progressive ways of doing it than lifting the cap"

Lifting the cap on Soc. Sec. is the exact definition of progressive - places absolutely no additional tax on lower and middle income earners who pay a lot, places tax on the wealthy.

This is the comment of someone who doesn't know a thing about what they are saying.

Does she not know the meaning of a progressive tax, or does she not understand what lifting the cap means? I thought she was the policy detail master.

[anonymous171]

150. She playing to the right.

:puke:

[Labors of Hercules]

148. Why did asshat charlie interrupt Obama and not Hill?

shitty jaded fucking BULLSHIT! I'm so pissed I could scream.

[VenusRising]

152. Let it out.

It's bad to hold in rage.

:hug:

[uponit7771]

153. Both moderators have been mostly unprofessional with the tabloid questions

[Levgreee]

166. Yes, he really has a problem actually listening to Obama

[rodeodance]

151. **charts go up when Hill talks Soc security and plunks when obama talks ho ho

[anonymous171]

155. Yeah. B/C they are thinking about Gore and Bill, not Hillary.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

172. Those people are idiots then.

I'd much rather raise the ceiling on payroll taxes of millionaires than raise the retirement age. This is just another example of people not knowing basic economic facts.

[BattyDem]

154. Did I hear Charlie say He "owes Senator Clinton time" when Obama wanted to give a rebuttal?

They spent the first 45 minutes forcing Obama to take a lot of time defending himself because of Wright, Ayers and the "bitter" comment. Then they came back and talked about issues of substance (Iraq, Iran and the economy), but they gave Clinton the majority of speaking time to keep things equal!

:wtf:

[high density]

158. Yes, Obama being attacked = Time for Obama

So to "balance" it, she evidently has some free time banked up.

[nashville_brook]

156. time for thread 5 yet??

pretty please?

[Poll_Blind]

162. commercial break just ended, MAKE IT SO! n/t

PB

[spanone]

160. annie oakley

[Leftist Agitator]

161. Oh, God, gun politics...

Here we go.

How will Her Royal Clintonness spin her way out of this one?

[billyoc]

163. Non-existent assault weapons ban again.