It's not going to matter that much.

[Plaid Adder]

I didn't see the debate. I talked to my partner, who was watching it; she said that she thought Hillary was doing better because Obama didn't seem as confident as usual. However, she also said that this was the first presidential debate she'd ever seen where both candidates 1) sounded like they were speaking naturally instead of vomiting up canned responses; 2) actually tried to respond to the questions; and 3) consistently came off as intelligent and well-spoken. Her exact words were, "This must be the highest-quality pair of candidates we've ever had."

I've only been looking at the debate threads in GDP for about 15 minutes but that's enough to convince me I'm not going to get a more honest or detailed assessment of what happened than that, so that's what I'm gonna go with. In which case I can only say: looks good for the general election, whatever the outcome. Cause when one of those debaters is McCain, none of those things will be true any more.

It is also worth remembering that these debates generally don't matter as much as we think they should. Reagan could not debate worth a damn in 1984--he literally became incoherent--but it didn't matter to the voters. Bush I was a bad debater, Bush II a million times worse. Gore and Kerry 'won' every debate they had with the asshole-in-chief. And yet, here we sit.

It will all seem a lot less urgent in the morning,

The Plaid Adder

[NJSecularist]

1. I think both candidates looked very good; Hillary maybe a bit better.

But this outrage isn't about Hillary or Obama's debate performance... it's about ABC's farce of a "debate".

[Plaid Adder]

2. That outrage I get.

What flabbergasts me is the "my candidate won, yours eats worms" threads. Yeesh. Yeesh, people!

The Plaid Adder

[NJSecularist]

4. Yep, that kind of crap is petty and annoying.

The real issue should be the farce that was that debate and the farce that is television news.

[JVS]

5. I didn't see the debates either, but concerning those MCW,YEW threads...

I just look over to the right and see who is posting them. When I see that, I know that many of these posters are the kind that if they said the world was round then we could rely on it being flat.

[TheDonkey]

3. I think the debate outrage is fine but we need to be PREPARED b/c it is just gettin started

the RW media will be out to get Obama once he clinches the nomination and has to be prepared to fight 120%

I think Obama had many highs and a few bumps. Hillary was mostly irrelevant. I do not say this as a biased supporter but seriously the debate was like Obama was running for President and Hillary was there to comment on the matter. The two were not debating one another or actual issues, just the issue of "Obama."

[KSinTX]

6. My take

The first part of the debate was a bit "tabloid," but it was a remarkable moment for Obama to work through his talking points for the GE. Clinton didn't really get hit very hard, but took the opportunity to do so to him. Obama pretty much sidestepped comment on her Bosnia flap when the moderators tossed him that softball (guess his sport is still basketball). She, on the other hand, took every opportunity to cut in and remark on each of his.

On the issues:
A lot of discussion on taxes, capital gains and what not. Both promised no new ones for middle class, Obama said he was lowering them. Both had a floor of $200-$250K for raising income taxes, but again both said no to middle class.

Stunning development on the Middle East. Both held firm to the 6-16 month plan for removal of troops. Clinton said this would be regardless of what the generals said; Obama said he'd discuss tactics but as C-in-C, he would set the mission.

Clinton espoused an odd sort of NATO-esque Middle East "umbrella" (listen to hear this again if the media bothered to catch it!) and would respond with massive retaliation if Israel, or any member such as Saudi Arabia or UAE, were attacked by Iran (words to that effect). Obama said this would be true only in Israel's case and only with appropriate action, not retaliation.

No nukes for Iran. No surprise there.

Not one mention of housing crisis, decline of dollar, health care, veterans, GI Bill, on and on I go. But I DID get to hear why Obama doesn't wear a flag pin, about some guy (Ayers) who bombed buildings when he was 8YO, the word "bitter," and a bunch of other useless crap. Gibson and Stephanopolous were acting like real, 21st Century journalists. I wasn't the least bit surprised.

[melody]

7. I think the people who are angry are being honest n/t

[Window]

8. I fell asleep while Hillary was pandering.

Droning on and on and on.

[meow mix]

9. Bittergate, Wrightgate, LapelPingate, Ayergate, AmericanflagHatinggate..

that is most of the debate right there, and obama didnt seem confident as usual? LOL FUCKING L

[Jersey Devil]

10. Agree - They both rose above the crap

though I cringed a few times when Hillary couldn't help herself and jumped in on Weather Underground and Rev Wright stuff. Obama wouldn't go there with the Bosnia question and for that reason, and his multiple pleas to the mods to address the real issues, I thought he looked better overall.

But I thought they both sounded sincere and thoughtful in their answers to the few questions that were about policy questions and in fact Hillary had more detail and probably the edge in those questions. Had the whole thing not been a hit on Obama by Gibson & Steph she may have done even better I thought. I can't see how the Obama attacks by the mods helped her because it prevented her from talking about the real issues.

I don't think this debate changed anyone's mind. I think probably those truly undecided had to be very disappointed that the issues facing PA - loss of manufacturing jobs, the mortgage crisis, NAFTA, etc., were hardly discussed at all.