Why I think the Debate Sealed Obama's PA Victory

[sampsonblk]

Hillary Clinton got what she wanted. The bulk of the debate was Obama defending himself against her false and dishonest attacks.

But her demeanor... Her facial expressions were those of a snobby school kid who just lied to the teacher to get you in trouble. Did you notice that?

Wait a few days and check the polls. I can't be the only one who saw that. Her behavior said a lot. She should learn to bullshit with a straight face.

I'd bet money her poll numbers will drop fast in Pennsylvania.

[JKaiser]

1. I am sorry but I think Hillary won..

Obama is a very poor debater.. I thought he was talking in circles last night which made him hard to follow.. He made himself look bad. I felt sorry for him.

[olkaz]

18. Hillary probably won, but this wasn't a fair fight.

Obama got ambushed. Seriously, the questions made me ill.

Yes, yes, I know, he needs to be able to answer tough questions. He's done an incredible job up to this point, and had one wishy-washy debate (where the questions were bizarre).

"Obama is a very poor debater.. "

It's just not true, and honestly, my two year old niece could school John McCain on Foreign Policy and Trade Issues.

[Cha]

37. Well, according to the polls

..the majority says she didn't win so I guess we'll have to go with the majority. I don't why you would even think she "won"?

[tekisui]

2. Pair that with Obama's 5 day whistle stop tour of PA.

He is moving in to seal the deal.

What I don't get is, Obama's numbers improved and HIllary's fell after the bitterness hit. Why did she try more of the same. Dumb move.

[goclark]

5. That was my take on it too

And she said that he was electable ~ that was a real shock.

[krkaufman]

24. Yeah, his unelectability has been one of her staples ...

... so she sorta threw *herself* under the bus, there.

[sampsonblk]

13. Her tricks didn't move the polls in her favor. I think people saw through it.-nt

[monmouth]

3. Your description is spot on!...n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Why wait a few days?

An ABC poll is already showing that people think Obama won by a 3:1 margin.

I didn't see it, but from what I read here, the debats sounds like a projective test. Hillarites think she won, and for the most part Obamites think he won.

[goclark]

8. Fantastic! I thought he was the only one that was grilled

and she admitted on her own that he was electable.

Why would she say that and act all sweet at the beginning of the debate.

I thought she went sweet at the beginning of the debate and praised him.

Then she let her cronies go negative but he was the real Rocky in the Ring.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. The same Huff Post article I got that poll from says

the mods were booed by the studio audience and ABC was being flooded by protests.

Maybe people are waking up. Maybe they're starting to see the corporate media for what they are.

[ORDem]

14. I think that was an online poll, so not scientific, let's not go overboard.

I actually think that from here on out Obama's going to pick up a lot of votes from people who really can't decide but they want this damn primary season to end so we can start kicking McCain across the playground. The only reason he's pulled even in national polls is that no one's been focused on him. His thin veneer is going to be incredibly easy to pull away.

:dem:

[nels25]

34. Just a thought but

most people do not like a bully and Hillary can come like that.

Also to allot of people this did not come off as a fair fight (they put Barack on a spit to grill, where were any difficult questions for the queen?).

In addition Hillary's overall demeanor reinforces the overall negative views a large portion of the populace have formed about her.

[Bensthename]

6. It was a good debate. I give points to Obama in the first half and Clinton the second half.

Obama did well defending himself on the petty issues the media just loves to hang on to.
In the second half she did something she should have been doing more, and that is bringing up the positives of the Clinton 90's era..

[Barack_America]

7. It's worth noting that the Philly papers are all highly critical of the debate content...

People here in PA tuned in to see how the candidates were going to help solve our problems and THAT is what we got?

People here in Philly are pissed.

Here's an interesting article from the Inquirer and front page of Philly.com

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20080417_Obama_had_the_tougher_night.html

[goclark]

9. Bingo!

[patrice]

10. She also VERY clearly said: Forgive me for mis-remembering Bosnia, but Obama said you are bitter.

You're right about her demeanor. It is worse than it's ever been. She was positively glowing with self-satisfaction. I almost expected her to fluff her feathers and lay an egg.

That doesn't quite get to what I saw. I've been trying to articulate this better . . . .

There's this self-delight in her own image.

That doesn't quite say it either. I'm going to have to watch her again and think about what this is.

[patrice]

12. She is thrilled by herself.

She turns herself on.

She is so self-satisfied she's stuffy.

....

more later.

[Vinca]

15. If only she could have heard the 4 letter words I was yelling at the television. nt

[burythehatchet]

16. When she lies and/or attacks from the gutter, every other phrase out of her mouth is "ya know"

[truebrit71]

19. She also looks down alot...especially when she says the words that are the lies...

..she came across as tired and well off her game...she reminded me of a boxer that was only being kept in the fight by a pair of referee's that had money on the other guy getting KO'ed...

[Bigleaf]

17. You are bang on about Obama's poll numbers. Give this a few days. It's over. He has won.

Everytime they try and fuck him over, it's blowback time and his poll numbers rise. The blowback from this debate is going to be fucking unreal. Watch out McCain.

[grantcart]

20. people don't like a pile on.

[loyalsister]

23. I think they also don't like language reinterpretation

I don't think pretending she knows better what Obama meant is working for her.

[patrice]

26. It's quite elitist of her. nt

[rucky]

32. Remember the Hillary pile-on at the NH debate?

and remember who won NH?

[Swamp Rat]

21. yep

[Robbins]

22. NH

Remember when Hillary was thought to be pilled on? She pulled off a narrow victory.Every poll has
Obama winning the debate.There Is so much criticsm on ABC over the debate.Obama comes off good
and presidential.Obama could have nailed Hillary on things yet he acted like a real democrat.
Let's also remember Hillary came off as a neocon lite and a bet a lot of working people didn't know they are making 200,0000 and more a year. That Is sarcism In case you didn't know.Now I still
think Odds are more on Hillary winning the primary In Pennsylvnia but the odds are better for that to be a very narrow victory for her or a possible upset for Obama.

[patrice]

27. Yeah, folks on here were freaking out saying the moderators made Obama lose.

But listen carefully to what he did manage to get out there. He scored on saving Social Security and improving Affirmative Action (in a way that appeals to both Black and White Americans) at minimum.

I thought it was a B+ Obama, and, at best a B- HC, but probably more like a C+ because of ethics.

[krkaufman]

25. I can hear the PA water cooler chat today ...

"Hell, if I wasn't bitter before last night's debate, I sure as hell am now!"

[Barack_America]

28. I overheard some people at the lunch truck talking about the debate.

3 men and 1 woman.

The general consensus was that the debate sucked but that Obama was weak defending himself. However, when they were rehashing the debate content, they kept pointing out remarks of Obama's that they had liked and remarks of Hillary's that they didn't. I found that interesting. Their global perception of the debate seemed to be at odds with their analyses of the individual points. I wonder which will stick?

As I was listening to them, I was coding them according to the campaign's scale.

The woman was a 4C (leaning Clinton)
Two of the men were 3L's (leaning Obama)
The last guy I was tempted to put at a 2 (supporting Obama), which was cool because I recognized him from an event last week. He was a solid 3 (completely undecided) then. So definite progress there.

[krkaufman]

38. Yeah, it's tough for Obama to come out of the debate NOT appearing defensive ...

... since he spent the first hour having to defend himself.

Thanks for the insights.

[tandem5]

29. Clinton by double digits

and not because of the debate.

[crankychatter]

31. so, twenty percent change in six days from a virtual tie?

dream on

[tandem5]

36. go look at the chart on real clear politics for PA

about 15 days ago there was a shift among the polling average by both candidates that practically fails the vertical line test then it immediately resumes dueling flat lines. That shift was not a trend it was a readjustment of likely voter models on the part of various polling companies. Believe what you want, but there has been very little movement in the last month or so.

[nels25]

35. I doubt it

[crankychatter]

30. I had to listen via radio so I missed that... now I can't make myself go back and watch

it's just too awful to contemplate

i don't believe in going to sleep without forgiving EVERYONE

it's just not good for ME or THEM

I couldn't muster more contempt for Clinton or the MSM if I tried...

no reason to make myself sick

Obama hasn't missed a step... just watched NC town hall

he's quite remarkable

[ecstatic]

33. Yes! I noticed! She smirks/half smiles when she's lying/being disingenuous nt