So all of you who insisted that Hillary was not lying about Bosnia...

[redqueen]

I'd like to hear from those around here who defended her so stubbornly after it was crystal clear to most people on the planet that she just plain old straight-up lied.

How do you feel now that she's admitted she made the stuff up?

Do you still support her just as much?

[DefenseLawyer]

1. Those crickets are deafening

I can't hear myself think.

[grantcart]

2. they are waiting for the memo lol

[Buzz Clik]

6. They are scrambling like crazy. "Now what do we say to that?"

Ah -- just say, "Oh, yeah? What about Ayres?"

Of course, considering that Bill Clinton was just defending Hillary on the Bosnia problem in the past 7 days, he's going to look like a total lying sack of shit.

[redqueen]

7. No kidding... she even managed to make HIM look like a jackass.

Unreal...

[rndmprsn]

3. more crickets...people don't like it when they have been made a SUCKER

sorry guys, but some of you fell for it BIG TIME.

[crankychatter]

4. "I said things I KNEW TO BE UNTRUE." Hillary Rodham Clinton

Suitable Political Epitath

[Terran]

65. Did she actually utter those words, in context?

Is there a link to a transcript?

I'm pretty astonished she would admit such a thing.

[crankychatter]

67. yes... I think I'm one word off exactly quoting there... but yes

yes

[Terran]

70. EXACT QUOTE

Sorry for the caps, but just wanted to call attention to what she actually said based on the transcript I found here:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/16044/ (transcript is all on one page, just CTRL-F for the word "case", is how I found it.)

"Q Senator, I was in your court until a couple of weeks ago. How do you reconcile the campaign of credibility that you have when you've made those comments about what happened getting off the plane in Bosnia, which totally misrepresented what really happened on that day? You really lost my vote. And what can you tell me to get that vote back?

"SENATOR CLINTON: Well, Tom, I can tell you that I may be a lot of things, but I'm not dumb. And I wrote about going to Bosnia in my book in 2004. I laid it all out there. And you're right. On a couple of occasions in the last weeks I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case and what I had written about in my book. And, you know, I'm embarrassed by it. I have apologized for it. I've said it was a mistake. And it is, I hope, something that you can look over, because clearly I am proud that I went to Bosnia. It was a war zone."

It's a little jazzed up with regret and apology, but it seems like a clear admission that she deliberately lied about the Bosnia sniper fire.

[crankychatter]

73. thank you for confronting my sloth with kindness

ya'all are way too nice to the old blind guy

once in a while, it's ok to kick me

in fact... if someone tells me they love me, but they don't abuse me?

I don't believe them, because THAT is my experience.

[Terran]

74. LOL, not intended as a kick (at you)

I felt it was important to put the words in context, as well as get the words themselves exactly right, that's all.

[redqueen]

83. Do you think the context changes anything?

She admitted she lied. FINALLY. Took her long enough.

[Terran]

87. No, not at all.

But context is important; we all know how fond people are of taking things out of context to hurt the people we support. So I wanted to show that, IN CONTEXT, she's still admitting she lied.

[redqueen]

94. Heh... just checking...

there are still a few True Believers who don't recognize it as an admission of anything...

[redqueen]

69. "I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case."

Lawyer speak for 'okay yeah I was lying through my fucking teeth... sorry (that I got caught!)'

Google the quote. She frickin admitted it.

Made all her more reality-challenged supporters look like frickin fools... not to mention Bill.

[barack the house]

5. ...

....

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Bound to be an empty thread on my computer

I believe most of these folks are on my ignore list. LOL

[hisownpetard]

9. She finally owned up, admitting she said things she knew to be untrue.

Why didn't the commentators come back with,
"So, you're admitting that you LIED?"

You'd think they'd jump on it, given how many times they jumped on Obama's back and kept pounding?

This was a set up, from the inception to the lighting.

Wasn't it Hillary who pushed for this extra debate??

[redqueen]

12. Why didn't they?

Geeeeeeee... I don't know......

:think:

[hisownpetard]

Hmm, could it be, might it possibly... could they have been (gulp) *biased*?

:shrug: :nuke:

[hisownpetard]

25. delete/dupe - Sorry!

[redqueen]

29. Noooooo... the M$M *loves* Obama!

They treat poor Hillary so mean... you know it's true.

Just cause Hillary is the one using RW talking points and acting like her shit doesn't stink... that's no reason for Olbermann to be so mean to her!

[Mezzo]

10. How do you feel about Barack's Plagaiarism that he's admitted to? nt

which should remind me...you sound a bit...um....bitter.

[redqueen]

17. Plagiarism? Really?!

:rofl:

[roguevalley]

21. nothing like staying on the topic. how about it? answer the OP.

[Hepburn]

47. Was that plagiarism under sniper fire....or was this during peace time?

:rofl:

[dionysus]

51. Shillbot manual page 35 says when all else fails just tell more lies.

:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

89. Look! Over there! Rev. Wright isn't wearing a flag pin!

[CreekDog]

64. good answer

no, wait, you didn't answer. :dilemma:

[redqueen]

66. Hahahahahaha

I saw your subject line and thought you were serious... I was about to say :wtf:

Got me! :rofl:

[Parche]

11. We Have To Sniper Them Over Ther So We Dont Sniper Them Here

:hi:

:hug:

[NashVegas]

13. Probably Still Support Her About As Much As Anyone Who Can Do Simple Math Can Support Obama

When he "claimed" the Selma marches as being the impetus for his parents' relationship and his birth.

[redqueen]

18. I give him a pass on that just like "Sir Edumund" Hillary Clinton.

Family story... I figure they heard it and passed it down.

Not quite the same as lying about something you're claiming you PERSONALLY experienced, is it?

[sandnsea]

55. That is not what he said, that is ANOTHER Hillary lie

He was talking about the civil rights movement as a whole. The only part he got wrong was his father getting one of the Kennedy tickets, undoubtedly because it happened within months of the time his father came here. Quite a bit different than complete fabrication of being shot at.

"Yet something happened back here in Selma, Alabama. Something happened in Birmingham that sent out what Bobby Kennedy called, “Ripples of hope all around the world.” Something happened when a bunch of women decided they were going to walk instead of ride the bus after a long day of doing somebody else's laundry, looking after somebody else's children. When men who had PhD’s decided that's enough and we’re going to stand up for our dignity. That sent a shout across oceans so that my grandfather began to imagine something different for his son. His son, who grew up herding goats in a small village in Africa could suddenly set his sights a little higher and believe that maybe a black man in this world had a chance.

What happened in Selma, Alabama and Birmingham also stirred the conscience of the nation. It worried folks in the White House who said, “You know, we're battling Communism. How are we going to win hearts and minds all across the world? If right here in our own country, John, we're not observing the ideals set fort in our Constitution, we might be accused of being hypocrites.” So the Kennedy’s decided we're going to do an air lift. We're going to go to Africa and start bringing young Africans over to this country and give them scholarships to study so they can learn what a wonderful country America is.

This young man named Barack Obama got one of those tickets and came over to this country. He met this woman whose great great-great-great-grandfather had owned slaves; but she had a good idea there was some craziness going on because they looked at each other and they decided that we know that the world as it has been it might not be possible for us to get together and have a child. There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I’m not coming home to Selma, Alabama."

[NashVegas]

56. He Ties Their Relationship Directly to Selma

There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born.

Nevermind they divorced two years before the marches.

[sandnsea]

60. "stirred the conscience of a nation"

He talked about Bobby Kennedy's ripples of hope too. He was talking about the entirety of the civil rights movements, about standing on the shoulders of giants. It was sick of Hillary to twist his words to score political points when her campaign first did it - but to use it to rationalize away her out and out fabrication of a sniper attack, well that's just an extra special kind of insanity. Seriously, her supporters who know what's going on, have either lost their minds or never had any sense to begin with.

[mkultra]

88. and birmingham

leaving that out of the conversation doesnt make sense. Birmingham was one of the events that inspired the airlifts.

[L0oniX]

14. Liars usually approve of other liars.

[roguevalley]

24. ha. still not on topic

[Mezzo]

15. I can't believe that she owned up to that and STILL BEAT his ASS in that debate. nt

[redqueen]

19. Ya think?

:rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. I couldn't believe it either

which is why I don't.

[roguevalley]

26. what debate. the moderator got booed at the end

[Armstead]

43. Huih? Did I miss something.

I tuned out after the main debate Debacle. Did they get booed afterward?

[redqueen]

44. I didn't see it either, but apparently so.

Not this time, assholes!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3271700

[Hepburn]

48. Latte spew...

...she beat his ass???

What debate were YOU watching??? :rofl:

It most certainly was not that POS on ABC last night!

[dionysus]

54. crack is whack yo

[Mezzo]

98. according to some guy in Minn, your guy can't lay off the stuff. nt

[redqueen]

99. Classy!

I bet you're so popular with all the other Hillary supporters here. :)

[cliffordu]

16. Great post, K&R!!!

I've been waiting for this admission for weeks. Glad we finally got it....


:kick:





:patriot:

[hisownpetard]

delete/dupe

:kick:

[hisownpetard]

20. Kick, and Rec#6

:kick:

[truebrit71]

22. She danced all the way around it but she never said she lied.

Fuck that semantics bullshit...didn't we have enough of the "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is"? from the last Clinton in the WH?

I know I did...

[redqueen]

27. At least she didn't shake her finger at us while insisting she wasn't lying.

Bit of an improvement there at least...

[Swamp Rat]

32. See post #30

[Shakespeare]

50. "I said some things I KNEW TO BE UNTRUE."

That's not much dancing; that's pretty much a straight-up admission that she fabricated the Bosnia story.

[truebrit71]

57. "I lied"...that would be a straight-up admission.

..

[Shakespeare]

61. You seriously want to parse that as anything other than an admission of lying?

Have fun. :eyes:

[truebrit71]

123. "I mis-spoke" vs "I Lied". Yeah I'd like to hear the unvarnished truth escape from her lips...

....just once...

[Armstead]

28. I support her as much as I did before -- Which is not at all

She and her husband are the only people who can say "I lied" without actually saying "I lied."

[Swamp Rat]

30. "I said some things I knew not to be the case" - Last night's debate.

There you go.

Right from the horse's mouth, an admission of telling lies to the American People.

Hillary is toast.

[ampad]

31. So far I only see two ignores in here

Still no answer I assume.

[City Lights]

33. And what else has she said that she knows wasn't true?

Hmmmm.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. We start thread after thread

complaining about the lack of substance in the national debate. :eyes:


She overstated the situation - she's flawed. All people are, especially politicians. But the fact is, this story is utterly meaningless. It's like Al Gore inventing the internet or being the inspiration for Love Story. Or John Kerry being in Cambodia on xmas day. It's just silly stuff.

[redqueen]

35. No, not all do. Many start threads cheering the M$M for using RW talking points.

There are plenty around. Feel free to go play in one of those.

As for Gore, he never said he invented the internet. Lame.

[truebrit71]

36. She "overstated " the situation? Are you mad? She fucking LIED!

..God, why is it SO difficult for you Hilliots to see that?

She didn't "misspeak" or "mis-remember" or "embellish"...she LIED. PERIOD.

[redqueen]

37. It's amazing, isn't it?

Sad, really.

[ieoeja]

38. What did Al Gore say wrong?

Al Gore DID launch the creation of the Internet. The promise to create, "an informational superhighway," was the central theme of his 1992 vice-presidential campaign. The three top technical experts on the Internet project credit Al Gore. Newt Gingrich of all people credits Al Gore and called on his fellow Republics to stop lying about it.

And according to the author of Love Story, the main male character in the novel was a composite of Al Gore and Gore's college roommate. And who would know better as to whom inspired the author than the author himself.

[redqueen]

42. I didn't think the Love Story BS was even worth replying to.

Thanks for picking up the slack and sharing some facts. :hi:

[NDambi]

41. Nice try Funky Monkey...nice try. lol

[Hepburn]

49. Overstated the situation???

LMBO...:rofl:

Get a dose of honesty. For Pete's sake...just because you support her, that does not mean it is required to become a liar like she is.

Hint: SHE FUCKING LIED. That was NO overstatment ~~ she fucking LIED four times.

Your gal Hilly is a PROVEN liar.

[tabasco]

75. Integrity = meaningless.

I'm not surprised to see this from a Hillary supporter.

[PVnRT]

85. Is the flag pin important? Or the pledge of allegiance "flap"?

Or most of the other manufactured outrage during this campaign?

[TwilightGardener]

91. Um...no. She didn't "overstate"--she wanted to prove that she was

a toughster, that she had Presidential-level harrowing "experiences" that tested her mettle, so she completely made something up to enhance her electability. And repeated it, time after time, even when people started calling her on the bullshit. And then she repeatedly lied about the lies. So did Bill Clinton. And now she's finally honest about her lies...yay? Just "silly stuff", to take weeks to finally admit something we can already see--that you're a chronic and compulsive liar? As I've said before, the levels of fanatical support and cognitive dissonance required to be a Hillary supporter these days is off the charts.

[mudesi]

97. You are beyond help

If you think her Bosnia story is an "overstatement of the situation", then your bias is impossible to remove.

[TLM]

121. "She overstated the situation "

Well she now says she said things she knew not to be the case.

That's a lie.

Then lied some more to try and cover the lie... then lied some more to try to spin to cover for the lie.

And when all that did was make 20% more voters consider her dishonest.... she admitted she lied and begged for our forgiveness.

[grantcart]

127. well atleast you had the guts to show up on this thread

I'll give you credit for that

[redqueen]

128. ...

:thumbsup:

[BlooInBloo]

39. I missed it - somebody update me with a linky please?

[NDambi]

40. She tanked so bad. On local ABC debate special it was the only time the meter

dipped below 40% all night during the debate.


She's a filthy liar.

[damntexdem]

45. Oh, she didn't lie -- she asserted something that she knew to not be true.

See? She never admitted actually lying, only that she told untruths.

I'm sure there's a distinction in there somewhere. But my eyesight isn't what it used to be, so I'm having trouble seeing it. ;-)

[WA98296]

46. Kick

[wowimthere]

52. She should come clean on all of her big LIES

[redqueen]

53. Aahaahahahah! As if!

ONLY if she's mocked for lying in papers around the world... then maybe she'll be shamed into being honest about her past support for NAFTA, her backing up the neo-con lies about Iraq, etc.

[hfojvt]

58. I still give her the benefit of the doubt

Did she admit she lied, or did she just admit that she got some things wrong?

There's a big difference, especially when somebody is recounting an event that happened 12 years ago.

It's not a huge deal to me, and I'm not even a Hillary supporter. I expect a supporter can easily overlook it. Does anybody really expect their candidate to be perfect?

[redqueen]

59. She admitted it in a lawyerly word salad.

She admitted she said things SHE KNEW TO BE UNTRUE.

If she didn't admit it I wouldn't have started this fricking thread, cause nothing else would ever convince her more rabid supporters that YES, she was ACTUALLY LYING.

Perfect? No. Do I expect them not to lie like a rug over stupidass BS? You bet your sweet ass.

And not only did she lie... but she did it so badly. Her husband at least does it artfully. She made a complete embarrassment of herself, her husband, and her supporters who backed her lying ass up.

[hfojvt]

104. I don't see that the same way.

Once when I was applying for a job, I mentioned that I remembered a guy's son from band, that we were both trumpet players. He said he was sure that his son was never in band, and I insisted that I remembered he was. We went back and forth a little bit on this. (This, btw, was after he already said he wasn't hiring and I asked about his son.)

However, did I KNOW it to be true? I was sure I remembered it, but what if it turned out that he was right? Would I then be a liar? Or just somebody with a faulty memory?

Later I found a program that my mom had saved from our concert when I was in the 5th grade, and there was his son's name, right there in the trumpet section. But what if the program had proven my memory faulty? Then, although I WAS sure that I remembered it quite clearly, I would have to admit that I was wrong. Not a liar. Just wrong.

I may not even believe I am wrong (maybe his name was accidentally left off the program, maybe he quit just before the concert or had the flu or something), but since I cannot prove I am right and people are all over me to apologize for being wrong, I might say something like:

"HILLARY: On a couple of occasions in the last weeks, I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case and what I had written about in my book."

Okay, so she apologized for being wrong, but it still reminds me of the James Lee Witt story with Gore and the Texas flood. His misremembered it and was proven wrong, but it was kinda silly nit-picking that did not make him a liar.

[redqueen]

105. That is so lame!

You're comparing remembering someone's name from 5th fucking grade to remembering ducking and running into a car because the threat of sniper fire was so high?!

Get the fuck outta here! :rofl:

[hfojvt]

107. the point is

for all I know, she did run and duck because of the threat of sniper fire. Not at Tuzla, but elsewhere in Bosnia. I don't think most people have a full understanding of this story, but are very quick to cry "liar! liar!"

Anyway, I provided a live example of a disputed memory. I could easily have misremembered something about the night our camper was knocked over in a windstorm by confusing something that happened on another camping trip with that one. Just like the dater's dictionary defines contradict as "to assist one's date or spouse in the telling of a STORY or a joke."

Memories are often faulty, but rarely is there videotape (or an old program) to determine who is right.

[redqueen]

108. Sorry but being shot at is not at all comparable to fellow classmates

or tents blowing over during camping trips.

I think it's very sad that you're stretching so far... and theorizing that maybe we DID send the first lady into a situation where there was a threat of sniper fire. The idea is ludicrous on its face... simply based on logic.

Oh well... believe what you will. :hi:

[hfojvt]

111. It was a camper that blew over

and that's pretty rare and probably more traumatic than the extra precautions that would be taken to protect a first lady. Kennedy was shot, Ford got saved by a misfire and Reagan was shot, so it's impossible to be prefectly safe and I can see them taking extreme precautions too even if the actual risk is not very high.

[redqueen]

112. Were they being flown into former combat zones?

Seriously, this is getting downright ridiculous.

[windbreeze]

119. no no no no.....

you are telling a story, and saying that you remembered thus and so...but could have remembered it wrong...you are NOT saying that YOU deliberately stated an untruth...but that you MAY HAVE misremembered....

she said.....I said some things THAT WEREN'T in keeping with WHAT I KNEW TO BE THE CASE...sorry about that.....but there's one hell of a difference between those two situations...they are NOT comparable analogies in any way, shape or form...wb

[Shae]

92. You're kidding, right?

I was walking down the street one day 12 years ago, and someone passing in a car leaned out and started firing his gun at me. I had to quickly run for cover!

No wait, I got it wrong ...

I was walking down the street one day 12 years ago, and a car passing me misfired. Boy was it loud!

[hfojvt]

100. except you are apparently lying

Did she ever say that shots were fired? No, she said that a welcoming ceremony was cancelled and they were told to run for their cars with their heads down. There was a RISK of shots being fired, she said. We know from video that that did not happen in Tuzla. However, did she or did she not visit half a dozen places in Bosnia? Do you know for a fact that Hillary's version did not happen at one of those locations? Or on one of hundreds of other trips that she made? Like Gore's supposed lie about a trip to Texas with James Lee Witt, it is too easy for a Democrat to get a detail wrong and then be branded a liar. I'm not jumping on that bandwagon even for a DLCer that I despise.

[redqueen]

103. She ADMITTED she lied.

Do you not see that?

Really?

Shall I quote her admission for you? It's posted elsewhere... did you miss it?

[hfojvt]

106. I did not watch the debate, except for a snip before going to work

Looking up her words, I don't see the same admission. "I said some things I did not know to be true" (although I remembered them that way) does not mean the same thing as "I said some things that I knew were false."

Perhaps I am parsing, but this still seems like a non-issue, a way to attack and belittle somebody who may be trying to actually improve the world. She said some things there in the hope that the "issue" would go away.

[redqueen]

109. "I just said some things *that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case*."

You misquoted... why?

Care to try that again?

You're not parsing... you're twisting her words to try to make it appear as if she did not admit to lying.

Why?

She said some things in the hope that she'd look brave... or experienced... whatever the reason why she lied... she did it repeatedly.

Playing her supporters for fools. Just like her husband did.

Fucking sad.

[Shae]

120. You ask

"Did she ever say that shots were fired?"

She said, "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the base"

What do you think she means by that? Sounds like snipers were firing to me.

[Cha]

62. How do you come back from making

shit up about a sniper fire incident when there are so many real people dying in them? And how does one account for bil clinton's saying she was just a "60 year old woman who spoke ONCE late at night and apologized?" How does that happen?

Since that was revealed in last night's debate..there's no way anyone but Obama won. hilary's lie was real and the questions against Obama were Manufactured.

[redqueen]

63. With a little help from her friends?

[Cha]

68. Yeah, hilary and the m$$$fm.

They both need to go down for the betterment of our country.

[AtomicKitten]

71. Some are still arguing we just couldn't hear the sniper fire on the video.

Oy.

[redqueen]

72. Hahahahaha

You're joking. You MUST be.

[quantass]

76. K&R

[StevieM]

77. Actually, she explained that she told the story the way she meant to in her own book.

So you are simply seeing things the way you want to.

And what about Obama telling people that the Kennedys brought his father over and that Selma got him born? I guess the rules only apply if you're Hillary.

Steve

[redqueen]

79. "I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case."

[StevieM]

81. It fails in that the response was sufficient to enable your high five moment. In terms of the voters

I think her answer was pretty good. She pointed out that she had been the one who wrote the book describing the event correctly. And Obama looked terrible when he said that he hadn't made an issue out of it, and then the mods reminded him that his campaign had.

Steve

[redqueen]

82. Perception is everything... only those who already support her...

and I mean RABIDLY support her... could come away with that point of view.

She made her supporters and her husband look like fools... not to mention herself.


Good luck with all the spinning! :hi:

[StevieM]

84. It's up to the voters to spin on Tuesday (eom)

[redqueen]

86. No, they get to vote.

The spinning is what Hillary's supporters are doing when they STILL try to claim she wasn't lying, after she fucking well said so herself.
:rofl:

[mkultra]

90. kennedy did bring him over.

if you check mboya's archive website, the truth will set you free.

[2rth2pwr]

78. I've always said she has a flair for the dramatic.

She did a great job facing up to that issue last night.

Obama could pick up some tips.

[redqueen]

80. !

:spray:

That's the funniest thing I've read all day! :applause:

[TwilightGardener]

93. When Obama needs advice on how to overcome his propensity

for truth, authenticity, and rational thought, I'm sure Hillary will be the first one he'll call.

[quantass]

95. .

[redqueen]

96. .

:hi:

[Major Hogwash]

101. Hillary will never be President.

There is no way she can ever recover from telling that lie.

[redqueen]

102. Nope!

If she somehow miraculously was our nominee (God forbid...) then this would KILL her against McCain.

Not to mention her "me too but not as much" positions on Iraq, Bush's tax cuts, lies about NAFTA, etc.

She's a guaranteed loser in the GE, IMO.

[merh]

110. Don't hold your breath

they won't admit to being wrong or cult like in their flawed defense of hillary.

[redqueen]

113. Oh... I'm not... had to try though.

:hi:

[merh]

118. it is good to try.

I've actually told the worst offender (you know, the one that likes to post OPs full of magazine articles and other garbage saying she told the truth) that even hillary says they are full of shit.

:rofl:

[redqueen]

126. Hahahaha...

Yeah... I was hoping to get their reaction to this admission.

I mean all that work! That was a lot of cut & pasting and arguing back and forth...

[depakid]

114. And so, who was that? Some strawmen?

Maybe there were a few (there always are on message boards) but I sure didn't see them- or take them seriously.

What DOES annoy me though is what Somerby calls "the cult of the offhand comment," wherein people focus on some stupid thing- and miss (or intentionally ignore) the larger picture. Which- in this case is the Clintons' successful policies in the Balkans that put a stop to genocide.

That I take a lot more seriously than an obviously ridiculous statement about sniper fire.

The same holds true for things Obama's said.

Seems to me that there are an AWFUL LOT of hypocrites around who'll complain about Stepahanopolis and Gibson, yet have shown no hesitation to turn around and engage in the same behavior. Repeatedly.

[redqueen]

115. Huh?

Are you saying you think it was strawmen who posted threads about how Hillary was really being totally honest with all her protestations that she was telling the truth?

How does that make sense? In what way are you using the word "strawmen"?

As for Bosnia... yeah... that's not something everyone agrees on. As a peacenik, I'm bothered by how that was a crisis that deserved attention... but the one in Africa? Oh just let that phone ring...

Whatever fudging of the truth Obama has done, he has not treated his supporters like fucking fools, the way BOTH Clintons have done.

This is not "gotcha" politics. This is about CHARACTER.

Nice try... but

[depakid]

116. I'm saying I didn't see a bunch of posts claiming she was under sniper fire!

That is a classic strawman- set something up that's easy to tear down (but is largely irrelvant to the larger issue).

Sorry that you have a problem with actions in the Balkans. As a self described "peacenik," one would hope that you have some appreciation for the results the policies achieved- particularly when compared to inaction in Africa- which I hope you don't mean to imply deserved any greater OR lesser action on the part of the international community. The reasons why that doesn't happen often in that part of the world is another can of worms entirely.

And, unfortunately, I also don't agree that this- and TONS of other similar deals by both camps aren't gotcha politics described as character. I suspect that you can see that, and probably admit it to yourself, even if you won't post it here....

[redqueen]

124. I'm sorry you missed them, but not just posts - THREADS.

Not a strawman by any stretch of the imagination.

You can tell yourself that Bill & Hill's bald-faced lies are okay if that's what you think. I expect politicians to lie when they have to. Not like this. So please spare me the mind-reading about what you think I see.

[bigtree]

117. she didn't say she lied, so I don't know what you're going on about

the problem here is that you won't accept any answer from her except one in which you can say she's admitting a lie. I just didn't see her explanation as any different from what she's said before. I really don't expect you to see anything differently because your mind is made up that what she's called misstatements were really lies.

And this 'most people on the planet' stuff is creepy. Try respecting people for their ability and right to think freely without being put down because they stand apart from the majority. One would think progressive thinkers would understand and appreciate that.

[TLM]

122. "I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case."

Looks like she admitted she lied...

"I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case."


She said things she knew were not true.

SHE LIED.

[redqueen]

125. What's creepy is that people are so devoted that they can't see what's plain as day.

Thinking freely is one thing. REFUSING to think because you don't want to believe something is true, while understandable, becomes somewhat inexplicable after the fourth or fifth round of unbelievably stupid, ass-covering lies.

[DemGa]

129. The OP's argument is utterly absurd

Does a "pathological liar" tell the truth about the supposed lie in front of the entire world?

This logic strains the very bounds of absurdity -- something strange must have taken hold of people following this view.

[redqueen]

130. Why did you bring up "pathological liars"?

How many ass-covering lies did she tell in her attempt to defend the original lie, before she finally caved and admitted it was a straight-up lie?

:shrug:

[DemGa]

131. Because Hillary's routinely smeared as such

You seem assured of lies -- I can apply the same standard to Sen. Obama.

Find the source of the slander against Hillary: the years of right-wing assaults -- and then Sen. Obama and his campaign, who perpetuated and sought gain from those attacks.

This will perhaps explain the vitriolic condition.

[redqueen]

132. The OP, which you directed your comment to, did not use the term.

I'm assured of lies cause she damn well admitted she said things she knew not to be the case. That's her weasely way of saying "yeah, I made shit up".

As for RW assaults, she seems A-OK with launching them herself these days. I no longer have an OUNCE of respect for that woman, after her "wimp" bullshit... that is the last straw.

[DemGa]

133. Fine, the OP didn't use the term

But I clarified the intent. My points stand.

As far as proof of any lie, I see nothing but conjecture in support of certainty.

[redqueen]

134. You don't acknowledge that 'I said things I knew not to be the case'

is an admission of outright, bald-faced lying?