With Obama wounded, Clinton digs deeper in debate

[Maribelle]

PHILADELPHIA: Senator Barack Obama found himself consistently on the defensive as he and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton met in a tense debate, possibly their last, that left him parrying questions and criticism on issues including values, patriotism and his association with onetime radicals from the 1960s.

The debate Wednesday was the first time the candidates had shared a debate stage in seven weeks, and it came six days before a primary in Pennsylvania that could determine whether Clinton can continue her quest for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Accordingly, Clinton did not let an opportunity pass as she repeatedly challenged Obama - assisted, as it turned out, by vigorous questioning from the ABC News moderators, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous.

The result was arguably one of Obama's weaker debate performances. He at times appeared annoyed as he sought to answer questions about remarks by his former pastor, his reluctance to wear an American flag pin on his lapel and his association in Chicago with former members of the Weather Underground, a radical group that carried out anti-government bombings in the 1960s.


more ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/17/america/campaign.php

[LSparkle]

1. "vigorous questioning" ... about B.S.

Yes, she had a better performance debating crap that doesn't matter ...
and with two "moderators" who were advocates more than questioners.

[Texas Hill Country]

28. no, they are actually very important vetting questions... and he failed the test miserably.

[Terran]

34. flag pins

super important. Thank god they asked.

[LSparkle]

49. Yeah, and going to a party with William Ayers ...

How about all the donors to the Clinton Library and Clinton Foundation?
What if some of THOSE PEOPLE end up being of questionable character?
And those people weren't just ASSOCIATES of the Clintons -- these are
people who have given MONEY and may expect something in return.

Her baggage may have been rummaged through while they were in the White
House, but what about the new baggage they've BOTH accumulated since
2000? Nobody has wanted to talk about that ...

[Texas Hill Country]

they were all issues that will come up in the GE, and he sucked at answering them.

[LSparkle]

51. Conspicuously absent was any question about Mark Penn/Colombia FT

Talk about a conflict of interest ... yet she didn't think this was
enough of a problem to make Penn give up his lobbying business while
he worked on her campaign. HUGE lapse of ethics yet no one wants
to discuss that ...

[JoFerret]

44. Lots of BS. Just as Russert and Williams

went after Hillary with BS.

I am truly surprised he did not do better and seemed flustered. I bet he would not be a second time around. He is a quick learner and Hillary did him a favor.

[SeaLyons]

2. She did a great job...

Go Hillary!!

Thanks for posting. Love the picture.

[TwilightGardener]

3. I think Obama will get a pretty good sympathetic backlash. Watch out, Monster.

[roguevalley]

22. five SD's including some of Hillary's so far

[JoFerret]

45. Name calling doesn't help anyone

She did a first rate job.
He can learn from it.

And your sig line is just silly. Ask the one who said it.

[TwilightGardener]

59. She's awful. She does a first-rate job of slinging BS.

[rodeodance]

80. bho was slinging sh** last eveing. Here is his LIE about the flap pin:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5542656#5542656
5542656, "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Posted by TacticalPeek on Thu Apr-17-08 12:17 AM




Obama was asked by a voter via video why he did not wear the American flag in his lapel.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us," he said.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Obama_and_Clinton_on_defensive_in_tense_debate.html?siteSect=143&sid=8982383&cKey=1208401641000&ty=ti




Compare to:



"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000




One of those statements is a lie - take your pick.

[Mags]

50. now you want the sympathy vote. wow, that's a long way from Yes we can.

[TwilightGardener]

57. Well, I suppose he could cry on camera..."Wahh!! I only want what's best for America!! Wahhh!!"

[Mags]

61. I have laughed all day long about this stuff. You folk have no

idea how this looks to others reading here. It is a hoot. You need to grow up and face the music. Have you ever been in politics before BO?

[rodeodance]

71. BHO playing the victim. Nothing new

[rodeodance]

4. "He at times appeared annoyed:--he was arrognant of him to be so Unprepared.

[uponit7771]

14. I agree to a certain degree, he should've known Hillary is a gutter fighter and should have stompped

... a mud hole in her ass with some facts

[oasis]

39. "Prepared". The man hasn't much substance to work with. He's all played out.

He's spent. His hot air stream is down to a fizzle.

[Mags]

63. He thought he was the teflon don. Wake up call to BO. He better get with it.

Not much time left.

[otohara]

54. Annoyed At The Low Level Of Questions

his supporters were just as annoyed. You know, if they'd hammered Hill with Monica, Whitewater, Marc Rich, Hillary's murder of Vince Foster and how about those pardons of the Weather Underground gals, you'd be pissed off too!

[Obamanaut]

85. And s"he was arrognant of" her to think it would be over Feb 5th.

[bowens43]

5. Obama isn't wounded, he's stronger then ever.

Hillary is finished. Her tag team attacks with McCain and the MSM against Obama have sealed her fate. Her lack of integrity has destroyed any chance she may have had of continuing her political career.

[ShortnFiery]

12. I don't live in NY State, but if there's a legal way, I'll save and donate my entire $600 rebate

to her "Democratic Challenger" in her 2012 Primary.

Why? I not only want her to lose the Nomination, I want to HELP push HRC out of OUR Senate. :-)

I have absolutely NO respect for HRC or her husband. Not anymore.

[rodeodance]

70. he's a dead man walking as they say

[kentuck]

6. Is this the first debate that Hillary has won?

Out of 21? one might think so?

[oasis]

7. Too "hip" to wear an American flag on his lapel. I knew that would come back to bite

him in the ass.

[zonkers]

10. No. It won't. By now, voters are hip enough to know a BS issue when they see one. Blame ABC mods

for even making this seem like a fresh issue. They are the ones out of touch.

[rodeodance]

13. and he LIED about the flag pins!!

[oasis]

21. What did he say Rodeodance? I missed the debate yesterday.

[rodeodance]

65. here:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5542656#5542656
5542656, "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Posted by TacticalPeek on Thu Apr-17-08 12:17 AM




Obama was asked by a voter via video why he did not wear the American flag in his lapel.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us," he said.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Obama_and_Clinton_on_defensive_in_tense_debate.html?siteSect=143&sid=8982383&cKey=1208401641000&ty=ti




Compare to:



"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000




One of those statements is a lie - take your pick.

[oasis]

83. Since his wife has been proud of America going on three months now,

and his favorite preacher say's "God damn America", you'd think Obama could just throw us a bone and wear a pin.

[CreekDog]

24. FLAP LABELS?

:rofl: :crazy:

my guess is that you don't even know what you're talking about you just mistakenly transcribed the talking points you were given. :eyes:

[tishaLA]

58. .....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rodeodance]

66. sorry. it is edited now: Here is BHO LIE:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5542656#5542656
5542656, "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.
Posted by TacticalPeek on Thu Apr-17-08 12:17 AM




Obama was asked by a voter via video why he did not wear the American flag in his lapel.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us," he said.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Obama_and_Clinton_on_defensive_in_tense_debate.html?siteSect=143&sid=8982383&cKey=1208401641000&ty=ti




Compare to:



"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000




One of those statements is a lie - take your pick.

[CreekDog]

69. did you have to check in with HQ to find out that Flap Labels was Flag Lapel?

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

74. I do not follow like sheepie to your great Savior

[CreekDog]

76. sheepie

:rofl:

By the way, Jesus is my savior. Is that okay with you?

[dragonlady]

11. Does that apply to Hillary Clinton also?

She doesn't wear a flag pin either. Why not?

[oasis]

20. Hillary's a former First Lady for God's sake. She was a keeper of the People's House.

What more credentials does she need?

[TwilightGardener]

23. Why does that mean she's somehow more of a patriot? Answer: It doesn't.

I think she isn't a patriot at all. She's a sociopathic parasite.

[oasis]

31. It answers the question. Of course you already knew the answer.(eom)

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

64. The "People's House" is the House of Representatives

The White House is where the head of the executive branch lives

Maybe they will cover that in your Junior High civics classes next year. Ask the teacher what Jingoism is when you get a chance

[otohara]

56. Millions of American's Hipper Than I Thought

Hope ABC News doesn't get wind of it.

[oasis]

84. Millions of Americans won't achieve the presidency and Barack is one of them.

;-)

[rodeodance]

8. REC

[cali]

9. hi, maribelle. did you know that Obama picked up two new SDs today?

Do you realize that the most important segment of that debate audience was the SDs? Do you know hillary flick has lost more SD endorsements over the past few weeks than she's won? She screwed herself again last night. poor hilly.

[redqueen]

16. Poor Hilly? Hah, hardly.

I think she's getting her just deserts. :)

[Maribelle]

18. Were they part of the 50 that had promised, but then were too embarrassed?

You said over the past week and it looks like your wrong again. So Sorry.



4-10-08 - Added DNC Sophie Masloff (PA), DNC William Burga (OH) for Clinton
- Added DNC Wayne Holland Jr. (UT) for Obama
- Added DNC Ronald Donatucci (PA) for Clinton. He endorsed a while ago but we never got a source for it.

4-11-08 - Added Rep. Jackie Speier (CA) for Clinton.

4-12-08 - Added DNC Taling Taitano for Clinton. She endorsed a while ago but we never got a source for it.

4-13-08 - Added DNC Nancy Larson (MN) for Obama

4-16-08 - Added Rep. Andre Carson (IN) , Rep. Mel Watt (NC) and Rep. David Price (NC) for Obama
Moved Aleita Huguenin (CA) back to Clinton. She has confirmed both to Politico and DCW that her comments last week were misinterpreted, and that she remains a firm Clinton supporter.

4-17-08 - Added Add-on Reggie Whitten (OK) and Add-on Harry Thomas Jr.(DC)# for Obama

[ProSense]

32. Wounded, huh? Since bitter-gate, according to your post:

4-13-08 - Added DNC Nancy Larson (MN) for Obama

4-16-08 - Added Rep. Andre Carson (IN) , Rep. Mel Watt (NC) and Rep. David Price (NC) for Obama
Moved Aleita Huguenin (CA) back to Clinton. She has confirmed both to Politico and DCW that her comments last week were misinterpreted, and that she remains a firm Clinton supporter.

4-17-08 - Added Add-on Reggie Whitten (OK) and Add-on Harry Thomas Jr.(DC)# for Obama



Six new superdelegates for Obama.

[Maribelle]

41. The post I responded said Hillary lost more than the received. I proved that was false.

[rodeodance]

15. And I really doubt he recalled this cookie comment. What a phony!!

......."You know," he went on, "I recall when, back in 1992, when she made a statement about how, 'What do you expect, should I be at home baking cookies?' And people attacked her for being elitist." He said he remembered thinking: "That's not what she meant. And I'm sure that that's how she felt as well."

But Clinton tersely rejected Obama's explanation.

"
……….

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/17/america/campaign.php.

[Bensthename]

30. And I doubt Hillary was really offended by the bitter comment. She is lucky that Obama

didn't use the "screw em" story instead. He let her off easy.

[rodeodance]

68. oh such a nice phony man

[rodeodance]

17. What a great title--BHO was shaken from the start--he came unprepared.

[jzodda]

19. This debate sealed it for my whole family

We won't vote for HRC now in the general election if she wins. Some will stay home and 2 others are going to vote for McCain if Obama does not get the nomination. I wouldn't vote for her now even if somebody paid me to do so. She has made herself unelectable because she is trying to destroy the party in order to win.

[oasis]

25. Hasta la vista...Baby.

:cry: :hi:

[Maribelle]

29. Obama's refusal to allow 2.2 million Democrats to revote is the most damage any one single person...

has done to directly eliminate two entire states from the General Election if he is anointed the nominee by the super-delegates, two states that Democrats could have easily won.

[derby378]

35. Don't blame Obama - blame the states themselves

They broke the rules, but somehow they don't think they have to face the consequences of their actions. The strategy appears to be "blame the Republicans and hope Dean offers a compromise deal."

[Maribelle]

37. Oh brother. The DNC said they could revote if both candidates agreed. Hillary agreed.

Obama refused.

Please do try to keep up.

[derby378]

48. The FL and MI machines should have thought of that beforehand

But, instead, they decided to play the political version of Press Your Luck while chanting "No Whammies, no Whammies!" And gues what happened? They wound up with a Whammy.

[Maribelle]

55. The DNC said Florida and Michigan could revote if the candidates agreed. Obama refused.

Your outdated pomp is no longer valid.

[ProSense]

38. That's spin, it's not Obama's decision. Count FL and MI anyway you'd like to, and Obama still wins

A revote in MI would most likely put another win in Obama's column.

Still, let's look at the scenarios with MI (Obama gets MI 55 uncommitted delegates) and FL included:

• The delegates needed to win the nomination would be 2,208.
  
  
• Obama gets a total of 122 delegates, Hillary gets a total of 178 delegates
  
  
• Current delegates totals for Obama 1,629 and for Hillary 1,486 (CNN numbers)
  
  
• Total delegates including MI and FL Obama 1,751 (+122) Hillary 1,664 (+178)

Check the popular vote

more

[Maribelle]

42. The DNC said the two states could revote if the candidates agreed. Obama refused.

Please try to keep up.

[ProSense]

46. Again, do you expect Hillary to get more than the 58% in FL and 55% in MI?

This is desperate spin. A revote in either of those states could put Hillary further behind.

No MI ruled it out.

FL screwed up.

That's it.

[Maribelle]

53. In current Florida polls, McCain would trounce Obama, and Hillary would beat McCain.

Stick that in your wingnut clip for spinning and screwing.

[ProSense]

60. What does McCain have to do with the Dem primary? Is/was he on the ballot? n/t

[Maribelle]

72. The question was about Florida. They are no longer polling the Dem primary there.

I was disproving that raw speculation with actual facts.

Please try to keep up.

[ProSense]

81. What does McCain have to do with the Dem primary? Is/was he on the ballot? n/t

[jzodda]

67. I don't believe thats the major issue facing this party

First off Obama will win Michigan easily I am sure in general. Florida though may go either way regardless as Bush won it handily in 2004 and we all know what happened in 2000. Also polls are reflecting an era where we do not have a nominee yet. Also those state's made the decision to do what they did knowing in advance the consequences of their actions. If the national party does not have rules to follow then its chaos and soon we have no party structure at all.

Next, the main issue we face is the negative and nasty race that HRC has decided to run against Obama. If both were running negative then I would understand but Obama is trying to run a positive campaign against one of the most nasty campagigns against him that I can remember. And he's having to do it while under constant attack by McCain as well as talk radio. Its amazing to witness.

Why should Obama supporters rally to HRC if she gets the nomination after she ran this style of campaign? Why would I want her to be president after that? Back in early January I admired her and had a real affection for her as a candidate and my senator. Now I despise her. How many other Obama supporters feel the same way I wonder?

[Maribelle]

78. Obama and McCain are in a stistical dead heat in Michigan. That's a red flag warning.

Democrats should not be doing so poorly against the Republicans after eight years of the worst president ever.

[rodeodance]

82. up pops that old lying chestnut.

[Bensthename]

26. yup, that is what happens when your opponent and the mods are assholes

with old questions, non issue, beatin to death old questions.. And considering the attacks. He did a fantastic job..

[Phillycat]

27. What a beautiful picture of Hillary.

She is so classy.

[rox63]

33. Obama is hardly wounded

Hillary just announced to the world last night that she's a liar. Just today, one of her super delegates jumped ship over to Obama? Wounded? I think not. :eyes:

[Maribelle]

36. If you're talking about the one from DC - it's because of the DC vote. Kennedy and Kerry should too.

But I would bet their forked tongues would not allow them.

[ProSense]

43. Everyone, including Hillary, says superdelegates should make up their own minds.

He obviously did.

You are spinning the consensus that the superdelegates should not overturn the will of the American people (collectively).

[Maribelle]

47. "Everyone"? Obama supporters have been screaming for weeks the SDs had better vote with the people.

Please go away with your false accusations.

[ProSense]

62. Americans (collectively) are "the people." n/t

[Maribelle]

73. And?

[zonkers]

52. Agree. But she spoke truthfully about it a few times before, doesn't that count?

[Swamp Rat]

40. "I said some things I knew not to be the case" - Hillary committed campaign suicide

Hillary admitted to being a liar, and the GOP are already on it.

[Jed Dilligan]

75. Creepy smile on her face.

Which is about as important an issue as the "tough questions" you people are crowing about today.

[Nedsdag]

77. What an airbrushed picture!

Hillary hasn't looked that good in ages.

[rodeodance]

79. "The result was arguably one of Obama's weaker debate performances" YUP