If the Obama people won't hit the gun-lie issue, we should hammer it

[Austinitis]

That means they don't have a reply and we can probably build it into a controversy. "Survey-gate" would be awesome - especially going into PA and the other primaries. After months of the media going easy on Obama, we can take back the narrative and turn around the race.

And remember, Hillary isn't very far behind in the popular vote. With enough votes in PA and the other primaries we can take the popular vote. Then, we can use that - both to convince super-delegates and to "flip" Obama pledged delegates who remember the tragedy of 2000.

Mr. GIBSON: But do you still favor the registration of guns? Do you still favor the licensing of guns?

And in 1996, your campaign issued a questionnaire, and your writing was on the questionnaire that said you favored a ban on handguns.

SENATOR OBAMA: No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire, Charlie. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.

Fact:

You can see the questionnaire http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43_080328_obama_iviquestionaire_091096.html">here. Obama's handwriting is on the first page, but tonight he said flatly, "no, my writing was not on that particular questionnaire."

There were, in fact, two versions of the questionnaire, filed under Obama's name in 1996 when he was running for the Illinois State Senate. One version has Obama's handwriting on it, one does not. Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor subsequently told Politico that the senator scribbled a few notes on the first page of the questionnaire, but did not read the response to the question about banning handguns, on a subsequent page.

Either way, it seems a rather lame explanation.

[LSparkle]

1. Yeah, not as lame as hers on Bosnia, though ...

Especially now that she's admitted she didn't just misspeak -- she
said something she KNEW was not true.

[Austinitis]

4. Obama *knew* he wrote on the survey

It's been a campaign issue for a while

[LSparkle]

27. "It's been a campaign issue for a while" ... this is the first I've heard of it

and I'm a political junkie. I've heard about the "pledge" he took with
Bomb Bomb about public financing, but this is the first I've heard of
a gun survey.

[Austinitis]

29. Politico did it months ago

They're the ones who found the copy with his handwriting on it. At first Obama was all "A staffer filled it out!" (which is bs on its face, bc/ if you've ever worked in state-level a political office you know they don't let staff do stuff like that), but then the handwriting copy came out, so they've mainly been quiet.

[LSparkle]

30. Maybe there's a reason it HASN'T GONE ANYWHERE in those months

NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS.

[Austinitis]

31. Hillary told the Bosnia story on St.Patrick's Day

and the firestorm didn't start until almost 10 days later. Sometimes these things take a few days. If we keep hitting the debate thing, it'll become a big issue.

[LSparkle]

32. There are only 5 days left until PA ... after that, you may have to rethink

all of this.

[Austinitis]

35. Here's the Politico story

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html

[Terran]

37. I'll say it again

Writing on the survey is not proof he filled the survey out or knew what the contents were. The issue of the writing itself is a non-issue. There is NOTHING. HERE. NEXT!

[Austinitis]

48. Yea, totally.

And Hillary was just really tired four times in a row.

And even then, he lied about writing on the handout. Straight to America's face.

OUCH!

[GarbagemanLB]

2. bosnia, bosnia, bosnia.

[depakid]

10. Now that was truly an insightful response

actually, it really was....

Shows the level to which some campaigns, the corporate media and many American's mentalities have shrunk.

Grade school level.

[leftstreet]

13. "I remember landing under sniper fire...

There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

[DarienComp]

3. "we can probably build it into a controversy."

You do your candidate proud.

[TwilightGardener]

21. This person is not a Hillary supporter, or a Democrat. Not even a Hillary supporter

is dumb enough to be so obvious as to openly discuss "building a controversy".

[redqueen]

5. Hahahahahahahhaah... so you're dropping the other two...

and hoping Obama goes around and tells a bunch of idiotic-as-hell, ass-covering lies about this, just like Clinton did with her sniper fire BS?

Good luck! :rofl:

[Austinitis]

24. No, but even if I was

This is more than enough. It can be turned into Bosnia 2

[redqueen]

25. Only if Obama acts like Clinton did,

and goes around telling unbelievably stupid ass-covering lies about it. :D

[Austinitis]

26. So you admit it's a lie?

That would be progress.

[redqueen]

28. Nope!

But even if it is... he still has to go around making a jackass out of himself telling MORE incredibly stupid lies for it to come anywhere close to Bosnia-gate.

:rofl:

[dpbrown]

6. Your writing, or a fraudulent answer by someone else in your place...

...which is it?

[Austinitis]

11. You mean the Washington Post fact-check?

See:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/?hpid=topnews

[dpbrown]

14. Exactly

A lame answer, regardless.

[rodeodance]

45. BHO LIED---his camp was asked about it TODAY: see this:

Rather than defend Obama's claim that his handwriting was not on the questionnaire, Gibbs argued that voters should instead focus on the Illinois Democrat's claim that he does not -- and has never -- supported a handgun ban.

Asked why his 1996 campaign manager would think that he supported a handgun ban if that was never his position, Gibbs said, "Why she filled out the questionnaire the way she did I have no idea because it didn't reflect his views."

The Clinton campaign swiftly rebuked Obama's unsupported claim that his handwriting was not on the questionnaire.

"He did not give a defensible answer," said Clinton adviser Howard Wolfson on Wednesday.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/obama-forgets-w.html

[dpbrown]

67. Color me surprised

Not.

[olkaz]

7. Get to work, make calls, talk to your neighbors, write to everyone!

And then....

You'll still have Obama as your nominee.

But you know, you sound like me, every time my team is losing in the big game.

"Hey, if we score here, get the onsides kick, score again, and go for two, we are RIGHT BACK IN THIS THING!"

[shayes51]

8. Thanks for posting this.

[kid a]

9. 60% of Americans don't trust HIllary - 70% don't trust Bush...give her time

[NightWatcher]

12. got yourself a wedge issue there? fuck the war, economy, civil rights, environment. You've a wedge

that wont count for shit when everything is added up.

Let's focus on ending the war, saving the economy, healing the earth, not bitching and moaning about flag lapels and 12 year old surveys. Have you been listening to Hannity or something?

[Austinitis]

15. Because the Obama camp has nothing, NOTHING, to do with building up Boznia

;(

[endarkenment]

17. Where's Boznia?

[Austinitis]

20. You slay that typo

kill it dead

[rodeodance]

47. they did not know how to discuss--just name-call, divert and worse. Just like RW Rove!

[endarkenment]

16. Mar 30th 2008. nt.

[Austinitis]

62. ?

[Life Long Dem]

18. It's just another one of your spin lies anyway.

[ShortnFiery]

19. Hillary did not mis-remember, Hillary LIED about being under sniper fire. That's way more important

And you know it, don't ya? I'll be happy to dredge up Hillary LYING! :-)

[Austinitis]

23. Obama did not mis-remember, Obama LIED about filling out that survey.

[Vinca]

33. Then there is the odd chance it's not his fucking writing.

Have you got great expertise in handwriting analysis? But, don't let me stop you. Keep trashing Democrats and we'll end up with McCain. Apparently, that's what you all want. Keep those flag-covered boxes coming back from Iraq.

[Austinitis]

34. No, the Obama camp's official story is "he wrote on it but never looked at the text"

I mean, you think I'm joking, but I'm not:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/?hpid=topnews

[Vinca]

42. Well, heck, then. That's reason to trash a Democrat. Why not?

Are you planning to sign up for McCain's military? He's going to need more warm bodies after he attacks Iran. Shouldn't you be starting a few more new posts on old scandals? Hard to tell if you're working for Hillary or McCain.

[Austinitis]

44. After you lose on the issue, you're going to attack the message?

That makes sense. Maybe it's just time to find a new primary candidate? Come on. If you switch sides we'll be nice to you.

[Vinca]

55. Be sure to vote Democratic in November. nt

[jody]

22. RKBA is a divisive, polarizing issue. BO & HC both are perceived as against RKBA and they need to

change that perception.

I'm tired of we Dems losing elections and we need candidates who will support the Dem Party platform which includes the promise to protect the Second Amendment right to own firearms.

Accordingly, BO and HC need to say "I promise to veto every bill that comes to me as president if it infringes upon the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense."

Unlike you who wants to use RKBA against BO or HC, I want them to make the promise I gave above and then refuse to discuss their past statements, votes, and association with gun-grabber groups that encourage voters to believe BO & HC are gun-grabbers.

I also want RKBA off the table so the Dem Party and all candidates can discuss major problems like war in Iraq, health care, job loss, education.

[haymakeragain]

36. Karl, is that you? Oh sorry Rush, couldn't see your enormous ass.

What a pathetic post. I truly cannot tell if you are a Hillarian or a dittohead.

[Austinitis]

39. Yes, anyone who criticizes the Obamessiah is a Repub

No one would ever want to criticize him for lying for any other reason.

[haymakeragain]

41. I can't tell the difference. Sorry, you look just like a

Operation Chaos dittohead. I am at a loss to tell the difference. You are acting exactly like they do, so ....what to do? any chance you would fuck off?

[rodeodance]

49. Last night BHO LIED about the questionaire, and about the flap pin. LIED> LIED

[haymakeragain]

52. In your tiny head he did.

In reality, it's inconsequential separation of flyshit from pepper.

[Austinitis]

63. In your tiny head it is.

[rodeodance]

65. A lie is a lie little brain

[rodeodance]

38. REC

[haymakeragain]

40. Figures.

What are you going to do when Obama is the nominee? Curious minds want to know.

[rodeodance]

50. BHO LIED

[haymakeragain]

51. Hillary lies every goddamn day, your point?

Let go, you lost. give up the ship, let her sink down, it's inevitable.

[Austinitis]

54. Hillary got called on it, and now we're calling out Obama

She apologized. When he admits he lied and apologizes I'll back off.

But it's totally unfair to conduct a campaign where Hillary gets beat up on honesty stuff and Obama doesn't, even though he deserves to be.

[haymakeragain]

56. Oh, Hillarious only told one lie...........

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAB
WAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAB
WAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Austinitis]

57. Change the subject? You're admitting he lied?

[haymakeragain]

58. Flyshit from pepper, pal, all I want to know is his position, which I am willing to bet

I agree with.

[Austinitis]

61. Yea, because no one ever cares about honesty issues

I've never seen a candidate get beat up in the news when they get caught lying.

[rodeodance]

43. BHO camp was asked about the LIE today--they could not defend it.

Rather than defend Obama's claim that his handwriting was not on the questionnaire, Gibbs argued that voters should instead focus on the Illinois Democrat's claim that he does not -- and has never -- supported a handgun ban.



http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/obama-forgets-w.html

[Austinitis]

46. Awesome. Make this a whole thread.

It's building.

[haymakeragain]

53. How transparent.

The dying throes of a tired, old animal are sad to watch.

[dbmk]

59. Well someone knows what his stance is:

http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php

Now try and controversify that little gem.

[Austinitis]

60. The issue is HONESTY, not gun control

I like gun control. I don't like that Obama's lies are going uncovered.

[Usrename]

64. There are two different questionaires in the PDF.

Do you see that his writing does not appear on the one you are talking about?


Maybe you might want to try and correct yourself. You've got it all wrong in your OP. Obama answered correctly.

[Austinitis]

66. So? They were referring to the one with the handwriting

.

[Usrename]

68. That one doesn't say anything about guns.

See for yourself:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43_080328_obama_iviquestionaire_091096.html

[Austinitis]

69. Yes it does

Check the last page, question 35

[Usrename]

70. Do you notice that there are two different questionaires?

Just exactly like Obama said.

In the first one, the one with his writing on it, the questions are not numbered. It also looks as if it went through a FAX machine. What appears to be the second questionaire, the one without his handwriting, has all the questions numbered in sequence, including the gun question, and it looks as if it was NOT transmitted by a FAX machine.

Doesn't it look like two separate documents, both reproduced in a single PDF file? Even the type sizes are different between the two. Right?

This seems to support what Obama said in the debate, and in other statements he has made about this in the past. This whole "his handwriting is on the same document" argument looks like it is complete bullshit, just like Obama says it is.

[Austinitis]

71. That link is all one survey

Here are the links to the first, handwriting-free survey:

Part 1:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_obamaquestionaire1newest.html

Part 2:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_obamaquestionaire2.html

[Usrename]

72. I guess I might not understand any of this at all.

Posting the stuff without his handwriting doesn't help to explain anything at all.

Is there any evidence at all, or any individual witness, that would dispute what Obama claims to have happened here?

It just doesn't make sense not to accept his version of events, unless someone who was there wants to dispute it, especially since all the evidence supports his version. Unless I'm missing something here.