Proof Positive that Too Many Americans Are Ignorant

[GihrenZabi]

-- Some misinformation sticks, however. The great majority of the poll's participants said this month they did not know the religious affiliation of Clinton (a Methodist) or Obama (United Church of Christ). But 15 percent ventured that Obama, whose father was Kenyan, is a Muslim.

That group includes more Democrats than Republicans, and it doesn't necessarily worry them.

Randi Estes, a Democrat from Ada, Okla., said she prefers Clinton but feels Obama is likely to win the nomination. "He's gotten very strong media coverage, and Bill Clinton's not helping her a bit," said Estes, 36, who has four children under the age of 6.

Speaking of Obama, she said, "I have a sense he's a Muslim." --

http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2008/04/18/AP.Yahoo.Poll.Obama.Gains/



All joking aside, shouldn't this be taken as a serious, serious warning bell for the United States of America?

Even with all the money spent on education in this country we live in a country where 15% of the people polled in this study said that Obama was a Muslim.

Can you even fathom the colossal stupidity of someone saying "I have a sense that is a Muslim?"

My 85-year-old Italian grandmother, who I love to death but who also does not have a high school education, told my father the other day that she is not voting for Obama "because he's a terrorist! My girlfriends and I heard it on the news, so we're all voting for Hillary."

Does anyone really wish to debate the premise that education is the opposite of ignorance, and that the amount of ignorance in the United States is UNACCEPTABLE in a nation of our tremendous wealth and ability to hire more teachers and pay them raised salaries, to make sure that there are no more than 10 or 12 children to a classroom, to provide more funding such that EVERY student in America has more and better extra-curricular activities, and everything else we can do to create a citizenry which is more aware and engaged?


For anyone who thinks that our system of education is just fine, I proffer you this statement:

If Obama does not tie up the Democratic Nomination within the next 30 days, it's because too many Americans are uneducated and ignorant. This ignorance was responsible for both terms of George W. Bush and the American people standing silent as our electoral process was completely overturned in 2000 by the Supreme Court in what has gone unspoken or unnoticed or both as the single worst flaunting of Constitutional Law and the greatest threat to our democracy which has ever gotten through without so much as a by-your-leave from the body politic.

This is not because anyone who supports Hillary is stupid - this is because if that 15% who believe Obama is a Muslim did not exist, then you would have 15% more votes cast on an intelligent basis, and there is every reason to believe, based on the polling, that Obama would have those votes as he is attracting the educated at a much higher rate than Hillary Clinton. That is a fact - done deal. It's not up for debate, not if you recognize preponderance of facts and can divorce your emotion from the argument.

That's really what most of this is about, IMHO - divorcing emotion from reason. This is, again IMHO, the true badge of the "educated person." Not certain types or levels of knowledge, but the general ability to process raw data and to come up with reasoned and reasonable propositions which hold true regardless of one's personal feelings on a matter.

American ignorance, whether you think there is too much, just as much as there should be, or not even all that much, is having marked and dangerous effects on our political system and this is something that Americans simply HAVE to wake up to. I wish I could scream this message from the mountaintops, that I could have a voice in national politics just ONCE to force this issue into the mainstream, for I fear that if it goes unnoticed and is not dealt with that our democracy is in serious jeopardy of a real and lasting decline in our values and the founding principle of enlightened self-interest which the Fathers meant to endow upon us.

[blogslut]

1. Ignorance knows no country

There will always be a marked percentage of people who believe untruths no matter how much they are confronted with real truths.

[mrcheerful]

3. Don't leave out those who have an unshakable belief in their belief systems

that allows then to ignore everything and anything that should make them question that belief no matter how much it contradicts with other beliefs. I heard one such woman that said it was no ones business how another spent their income then cancel what she said by adding unless that person is getting government money, such as welfare or disability. We live in times of double standards, repukes can get away with just about anything, yet if a democratic gets caught doing something they consider wrong then all dem's are held accountable. It gets frustrating dealing with people who have very little thought going on in their heads, its all they said shit. "They" said BHO was a muslum, so "they" must be right and the people spreading the "they" said crap know who "they" are. Nor do these brain dead question when "they" say BHO belongs to a radical anti american chirstian church, these people don't even see the error "they" made by contradicting themselves, these brain dead just walk around repeating whatever they heard in the last 24 hours and nothing shakes their belief "they" are right. Speaking of brain dead, I just ate a bug that got into my coffee because I was busy typing about "they" and didn't look first, so "they" caused me to eat a bug :rofl:


















must be right. Yet not one thought about who they are or why

[Orsino]

11. We've just let the MSM run rampant in America...

...to ensure that Big Money shaves or swerves as many potentially progressive votes as possible. Not only are a certain percentage of people ignorant by disposition, the MSM works hard to recruit more.

[CanonRay]

2. "The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along."

Arnold Glasglow

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. we only have to read the posts on DU to know that.

[Phillycat]

5. This Ivy League educated woman is voting for Hillary Tuesday.

Your post is ridiculous. People aren't voting for Obama because they're stupid? No. I'm not voting for him because he's a vacuous empty suit who is thoroughly unprepared to be president, and he has an extremely unattractive arrogance and entitlement complex to boot. As evidenced by every debate we've had so far, Hillary is far more knowledgeable and well-spoken regarding policy than Obama. Seems to be it would be STUPID to vote for an unproven candidate who has no real experience to bring to the table and who cannot adequately articulate his policy plans.

[oviedodem]

6. You have the nerve to mention ENTITLEMENT. Surely you jest.

I don't begrudge anyone's vote and I don't try to change opinions, but to suggest that he has a sense of entitlement is pushing the envelope. Unproven should be taken with a grain of salt to because the argument can be made that ANY candidate is unproven to be presdident. The real question is:

Who seems the best prepared politically and emotionally to handle the job. That question centers around more than policy. You say Clinton and I say Obama. One of us is going to be right OR both of us are going to be wrong.

[Phillycat]

7. Well, we disagree.

I find him unbelievably arrogant with a huge entitlement complex. His pissy reaction when he's asked questions he doesn't like is a tip-off. He truly believes he is OWED the presidency, whereas Hillary is willing to work her ass off for it.

But, as you said, neither of us is going to change the other's mind, so we'll just have to disagree. It's all perception anyway.

[GihrenZabi]

9. You can only disagree if you both have an argument

Hillary is a silver-spoon Washington insider who hasn't done a quarter of the work Obama has with communities, real communities of real Americans, and whose sense of entitlement to the Presidency is so pronounced so as to be able to convince herself that risking the Party's chances for success in November is worth her keeping a doomed-to-fail political campaign in the running just to stroke her own ego.

Get a fucking clue. Christ, if these are the sorts of responses Hillbots are going to generate, is it any WONDER that she's going to fail? Her supporters have as much logic to why they back their candidate as Hillary has accomplishments of her own to tout on the campaign trail...

Oh, that's right...she doesn't. Which is why she's been attacking Obama since the last round of primaries...

[izquierdista]

28. I agree 99%

Just change "work" to "lie" and you will be spot on.

[superkia]

29. Are you trying reverse psychology or something? I have noticed...

that the Clinton campaign has been using the reverse psychology tactic like the current administration uses allot, are they sending you instructional emails or videos telling you to follow suit or something? Your statement just seems a little backwards and strange to me but then thats just my opinion like that is yours?

Good luck with whatever your agenda is, I hope all works out well for you.

[JoFerret]

12. No. One of them will be the nominee

that is quite different from being right about who is better prepared.

[GihrenZabi]

8. That response from someone with an Ivy Leage education is what's ridiculous

Did you even RESPOND to the point that 15% of the persons polled thought Obama was a Muslim?

No. Your failure to suss out the salient point of the post just confirms my and many others' belief that an Ivy League educations mean fuck-all in and of itself...didn't George W. Bush receive one as well?

You = epic fail. :)

You're voting for Hillary because you're a Hillbot. You're probably one of the third of her supporters who say they will vote for McCain over Obama, which just goes to show you what kind of Democrat Hillary is, if we judge those by the company they keep - and if we look at her campaign. When is she accepting the VP nod from John?

Just be honest about it - no objective analysis of the two candidates can lead to a reasoned vote for Hillary. She's more divisive nationally, has less experience in elected positions, has spent less time with the common man working on the ground floor in politics, and represents the Old Guard of the Democratic Party which is on its way out, whether they like it or not. She can't even win the election anymore.

Were Americans less ignorant and better educated it would have officially been over a long time ago. One can only imagine how many votes Hillary is garnering from the ignorant considering the quality of many of her supporters' posts...

Ivy League educated. ROFLMFAO! Thanks for proving the unrelated but no less interesting argument, as well...

[Phillycat]

10. You're cute.

You need a hug. :hug:

[mudesi]

14. You don't have an Ivy League education

I know you don't because you are apparently incapable of doing grade 1 arithmetic.

Obama has already won the nomination and every single Democrat ought to be calling for Clinton to concede the race yesterday.

[zulchzulu]

18. I guess you like how Bill cheated on her in the White House while she was there too

Some people have odd role models. What's your excuse for her Sniper story?

As for Bill cheating on her, I can't say I blame him...

:puke:

[JackBeck]

21. And there we have it, "my friends".

Elitism laid out right in front of us for all to see.

[LTR]

13. Over 70% of Kenya is Christian, only 10% is Muslim

Protestant and Quaker 45%, Roman Catholic 25%, Islam 10%, Traditional Religions 10%. Others include Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism and the Bahá'í Faith. Kenya contains the largest body of Quakers in a single nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya#Demographics

The U.S. has more Muslims than Kenya.

[Texas Hill Country]

17. and yet Obama's "cousin" promised to institute Sharia law....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. Which cousin? Dick Cheney?

*psst* I think you're one of the "15%" referred to in the OP.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. If more than 13 DUers had read my journal about the Right Wing Media V. Obama

which took me forever to research and write up, they would know that the right wing media spent all of last year spreading the lie that Obama is a Muslim. That is why some people in America think that he is a Muslim. Some people only get their news from RW radio or Fox. And it will be that way in the GE, too.

[Texas Hill Country]

16. this is what we hillary supporters have been trying to tell you.

[goletian]

20. hillary supporters ARE RW

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. You must be so proud. Yay for ignorance! nt

[olkaz]

19. Careful, mentioning these people makes you an ELITIST!

Good lord, they're everywhere.

So, friend of mine, why do you not like Mr. Obama?

"Hates freedom."

"Thanks. Now go buy us another round."

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, but I just cannot get my conservative friends to see the light. They all boil it down to something irrelevent and stick to that position.

I think it's laziness, apathy, and a reluctance to look like a flip-flopper honestly.

[TragedyandHope]

24. What do you think the last 8 years has been about?

The Bush administration and the Neocons have been actively cultivating fear and ignorance, so they can get away with tearing up our laws, taking away our rights and transferring working people's wealth to themselves. This is their ideal citizen. I'm sure Rove has some polling data to prove the success of their mass-conditioning of Americans.

Don't blame the victims. We need to get the word out to them and keep repeating our message over and over until enough information sinks in, so that people can start thinking for themselves. Then we can finally have honest discussions and disagreements based on reality and facts, rather than parroting back the hollow talking points of PR machines.

[GoesTo11]

25. Seen a social studies textbook lately?

Schools aren't teaching how to think about government and politics. It's not part of NCLB.

What they teach is a "Time Magazine for Kids" view of the world, literally. Students learn how great things are and follow political celebrities. Analysis is limited to saying concluding that various tyrants were bad.

[Prophet 451]

26. You lost me on the last point

I think it would be safer to assume that the 15% would split evenly between Obama and Clinton.

That aside, I have to agree. I would also add that it's too easy for ridiculous theories to be forced into school curiculums (witness the ongoing battles over evolution or read Molly Ivins acounts of Texas schooling). What disturbs me more is that American's don't read. The average American, discounting their work life, reads around 99 hours a year. For a Brit, it's slightly under four hundred; for Western Europe, it's higher still and that disparity of voices and that in-depth analysis in something which can only be done in print. I don't watch TV but I'm not automatically anti-TV and it's true that the best of TV can be classified as genuine art but the problem is that Americans watch an awful lot of TV (by far the most in the western world) and, by and large, they aren't watching the best of it. They're not watching the Discovery Channel or it's competitors, they're watching American Idol and When Porn Star Midgets On Crack Attack During Surgery Gone Wrong!.

The nature of TV (the producer tries to get a product (us) to a customer (advertisers) dictates that in-depth analysis of any issue is rare and usually confined to specialist channels. Even on the news networks, analysis is usually superficial so print is the only way to gain the mix of voices necessary for proper evaluation.

How is this related to the education system? Because by and large, people don't learn to enjoy reading in adulthood, it's instilled into them as children. I was raised by my grandmother and every Saturday, she would take myself and my sister to a local bookshop and buy us a new book. When it started, it was things like Topsy & Tim but they got more complex as time went on and that led to a love of reading which persisted my whole life (to this day, I cannot throw away a book, something in me just rebels at the thought).

Leaving aside my desire to promote reading, the main problem is that the US (and my own England) tries to do education on the cheap. We don't devote nearly enough money to it. Michael Moore made the point in one of his books (back to reading again) that the people who we entrust with a good portion of molding young minds get paid less than an entry-level civil servant, school libraries are falling apart and more and more, education is politicised. Not just on the evolution/creationcrap side but even in things like the teaching of history, civics and literature. About the only thing that hasn't been politicised is math.

[Enrique]

27. present company excluded, I guess?

that's my problem with "Americans are ignorant" stuff. It seems to assume that this means people that are not reading this post.

But there are often factual errors posted here at DU, misapprehensions, faulty reasoning, and it seems to be tolerated and, correctly, not seen as a sign of DUers' ignorance in general.

[2rth2pwr]

30. There are people that have a sense that someone is Muslim that post here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5496184&mesg_id=5496184