Bitter gate, Weather gate, Wright gate,

[MadHound]

Hillary has been throwing not just the kitchen sink, but every piece of plumbing in the house at Obama ever since Super Tuesday. She has attacked over petty things, like Obama's minister, his association with with a former member of the Weather Underground, and Obama's comment that the poor and middle class are bitter(guess what, we are).

My question here is what the hell does any of these bullshit, backstabbing attacks have to do with either: A. What Hillary is going to do to solve any of the myriad problems that are currently facing this country or B: Any possible flaws in Obama's platform which address these myriad issues.

I realize that Hillary has a platform, much of which I disagree with, however the vast majority that I've heard, coming from her campaign, her supporters, and/or the media is all about these attacks over petty bullshit. Frankly she is doing her campaign and her dwindling chances a huge disservice by going so negative. She's turning people off, and leaving them wondering just what her positions on real issues are. Yes, I realize that part of this is media driven, they like to indulge in the negative. But her campaign brought these attacks into play in the first place, and there is little effort to quench them, and in fact she continued to indulge in them at the debate.

She would do herself a huge favor if she put an end to this shit. The vast majority of Americans realize that this is really all just typical political bullshit that gets thrown out every election campaign. Most Americans don't like it, don't believe in it and don't let it effect their vote, excepting for the increasing dislike that they feel towards the candidate who perpetuates it.

But hey, Hillary is pissed and desperate, and it looks like she's going to go down like a monkey, flinging shit to the bitter end. What a shame, she actually had a chance until she sabotaged her campaign, repeatedly.

[anonymous171]

1. I don't want 4 years of Clintonian psychodrama

[MadHound]

3. Hear, hear!

What's she going to do when the sledding gets tough with PM Putin, start slandering is gymnast girlfriend, or make vague accusations about vague connections to the Russian mafia?

You know at one time the Democratic party was above this. Sure, there were rough primaries, but the candidates saved the bullshit attacks for the 'Pugs, not their fellow Dems.

[LSparkle]

12. I second (third?) that!

I also don't trust her to restore habeas corpus or give up some of the
executive powers RatBastard has grabbed for himself over the past 8 years.
She holds grudges and I'm not sure she wouldn't use those powers to have
her revenge if she got the chance.

[MADem]

2. You must not like Obama either, then.

I realize that Hillary has a platform, much of which I disagree with....

There's not much difference between the two. Platform, plans, voting record. Very little difference.

Interesting that you disagree with "much" of one when they're so similar.

[MadHound]

7. No, I'm not thrilled with Obama

My original choice for the past couple of election cycles has been Kucinich. However Obama didn't vote to enable Bushboy's war, he hasn't promised to keep combat troops going on combat missions throughout his first term, he hasn't rattled the saber at Iran, and his health insurance plan isn't a mandatory plan that gives a monopoly and the big tax bucks to the health insurance industry.

Not to mention he's kept above the bullshit, he hasn't provided fodder for McCain, he hasn't indulged in backstabbing shit throwing attacks on his opponent, and he comes across as intelligent, inspiring and more than competent, none of which I can say about Hillary.

[LisaM]

14. Kept above the bullshit? You have to be kidding.

Oh, he gives a SHOW of "keeping above the fray", but you've seen the four-page memo from his campaign on how to frame the Clintons as racists. His campaign has been extremely negative, but no one calls him on it. I started to seriously dislike him at that point.

[MadHound]

17. Hmm, no, I haven't seen a copy of that memo

Do you have a link to it? Can you quote it? Or is this simply more bullshit that Hillary supporters are twisting for their own purposes? Somehow I think it's the latter. Besides, which has been all over the news cycle, this mythical memo, or all the bullshit attacks that Hillary has launched? Oh, yeah, the bullshit attacks:eyes:

[LisaM]

18. Yes, I can link to it. Here it is.

Make no mistake, Obama likes to portray his public image as above the fray, but the reality is a bit different.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/read-obama-campaign-memo-_n_81220.html

[MadHound]

19. Wow, you're reading that as framing the Clinton as racists, you're reading much more into it

Than what's there. There's no strategy to come out and call the Clintons as racists, it is simply a memo pointing out some questionable statements made by various members of the Clinton campaign. Furthermore, if you look closely, you will notice that it states that even the Clinton campaign thought some of those statements were over the line, and were apologized for, and the person in question reined in. There is no "attack command" in that memo, it is a statement of what's being said by the Clinton campaign. Much like there are memos being floated around the Clinton campaign stating what the Obama campaign is saying about them.

Like many other Clinton sychophants, you are reading your own personal preferences into something that's just not there. Remember, objectivity is your friend.

[LisaM]

20. I am no sycophant.

I didn't invent the meme, either. I posted a link as you asked. You can choose to agree or not. I know what I saw before South Carolina, though. I saw how the "fairy tale" remarks were misconstrued. I also watched the State of the Black Union and heard them repeated.

[catnhatnh]

4. I said in another post....

that to change the framing of the smear you just have to change the suffix...Bitterwater, Weatherwater, Wrightwater....now how does that sound? Ask the Clinton camp to compare the relative negatives of Whitewater vs Wrightwater....

[meow mix]

5. funny how the contents of the sink were the focus of the debate.. hmmmm

also White Affirmative Action, and Flag Pins

[anonymous171]

8. Yeah. WTF was with the affirmative action question?

[meow mix]

13. racially charged for the black guy.

x(

[Saturday]

6. Who said you could speak for "most Americans"? nt

[MadHound]

9. Polls and public opinion surveys do

All of which have shown, time and again, election cycle after election cycle, that most Americans have a serious problem with a candidate going negative in the manner which Hillary is doing. Also, in an interesting twist, there's a thread on the boards right now with the latest Rasmussen poll showing that Hillary has lost ground since the debate.

[Saturday]

10. Since every poll is different, I'll wait to see results rather than polls.

"Most Americans have a serious problem with a candidate going negative" BUT you can also check out the fact that negative ads work. And I do not think Hillary is going negative by talking facts.

[MadHound]

15. Talking what facts

That somehow, some way Obama had an association with a former Weatherman? Big whoop, hell, Bill pardoned a couple. That Obama's minister has Black Nationalist leanings, so fucking what, many African American ministers have the same, just go check out a local African American church. That Obama thinks Americans are bitter? Guess what, with the war dragging on, with the economy in the tank, with the Constitution in shreds, yes, we're bitter.

Like I said earlier, Hillary is pushing bullshit attacks, is stepping over the bounds for meaningless gotcha's, and isn't coming out with much in the way of plans or substance.

And on the issue of negative attacks, poll after poll, time after time, election cycle after election cycle, Americans have stated and shown that they don't like negative attacks(not ads, attacks), especially when it is intraparty primary attacks.

But hey, keep it up Hillary, she'll go down all that much quicker.

[LSparkle]

11. It's "tear down your opponent so you look better" ...

She's realized he's a better speaker, more inspiring, better campaigner,
better organized ... All she has left is to try and poke holes in him,
because trying to run on how SHE's more (fill in the blank) doesn't
work.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. Obama was correct in saying that Hillary, instead of denouncing the

tactics that have been used against her for many years, has internalized & embraced them. I hope the American people are smart enough to reject these scorched earth politics. NOT THIS TIME!

[Thepricebreaker]

16. I hate how we gate everything...!

[nichomachus]

22. There you go -- Gategate