Hey Hillary, the White House was rough, because you guys made it that way!

[NJmaverick]

If Bill had kept it in his pants, you wouldn't have had the "very rough White House" you talk about. You can't project your negative experience on others. There is nothing to say that Obama will make the same dumb mistakes your husband made. So there is no reason to think Obama will have it as rough as you guys did.

[galaxy21]

1. In fairness, the right wing have always been out to get Hillary anyway

Because she's a -GASP!- working woman. The scandals may have feulled their hatred, but they despise her on pricinple because she has a brain and speaks her mind.

Same with Michelle Obama.

[NJmaverick]

4. The scandals didn't fuel their hatred, it gave them the ammunition

to make their lives hell

[PBS Poll-435]

15. ITA -

I can't believe people can't remember all this crap.

WTF was everyone in the early 90s?

Remember Murphy Brown/Dan Quayle. Anyone?

[BlooInBloo]

2. The OP has every viture except for being true....

... C'mon guys. We don't need to make shit up. The truth suffices to make Clinton look bad. Don't do what Clinton supporters do.

[NJmaverick]

5. Are you serious? Do you remember Bill getting oral sex from an Intern

and then lying about it?!?!??!??!

[BlooInBloo]

9. Hush outraged-one. Their WH was tough loooong before that. From day 1, in fact.

[redqueen]

11. From before day 1.

They didn't want Bill to get the nod, even. The "scandals" were being dredged up just like they are now about Obama.

[karynnj]

69. Many of the scandals didn't need to be "dredged up", they were already there

If anything it was a media that loved Bill Clinton that didn't let him off the hook - on many things.

[NJmaverick]

12. Could it be the way the Clintons practice politics????

I mean we have seen Hillary generate a lot of anger and animosity amoung DEMOCRATS.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Sigh. Well, keep in mind that you're making Obama supporters look silly, and for no reason....

... But I can see you won't be reined in, so rock on, oh-outraged-one.

[NJmaverick]

33. You are avoiding my very valid point. Why?

[galaxy21]

8. Bill was not the first president to have a mistress

Elder Bush, JFK, Nixon, JBL, FDR....etc. It's not right, but it's been going on for years.

Only in those days, the press kept quiet about it. But in the nineties, no such discretion existed.

[NJmaverick]

13. There others were smart enough to stay away from the young ones

That lacked the maturity to be discreet.

[galaxy21]

16. Monica did keep quiet about it though

She only spilled the beans when threatened with jailtime.

[NJmaverick]

21. She told that witch about it, remember?

She was the one that blabbed to the rest of the world. An older and more experienced woman, would have seen that other woman for what she was.

[JVS]

74. Linda Tripp threatened her with jailtime? How?

Did she call her up and say "You tell me about any affair you might be having or I'll toss you in the clink"

[Straight Shooter]

96. JFK stayed away from the young ones?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[Tarc]

3. That is so much goddamned fucking BULLSHIT

Damn I am so sick and tired of this idiotic talking point. If you had any long-term memory left in your head (assuming you're old enough to remember), the Gingrich cabal savaged Clinton beginning pretty much the morning after the elections. The impeachment hearing was one of the largest frauds perpetrated on this country in history, surpassed only recently by Bush's Great Iraqi Swindle.

In short; fuck you and this debased freerepublic-tinged agenda of yours.

[NJmaverick]

10. Right Gingrich made Bill get oral sex from Monica and then lie about it

Right, the Clintons don't practice a form of politics that generates a lot of anger and hatred.

[PBS Poll-435]

19. OMG

You have a very warped recollection of history.

[NJmaverick]

25. So you claim, the problem is it's pretty accurate

and having seen the way camp Clinton has conducted Hillary's campaign, I have a better understanding of why there was so much anger and the hatred directed at the Clintons.

[PBS Poll-435]

29. Not from 60%+ of the people.

[Tarc]

54. jesus, are you ever dim

Impeachment wasn't even about that, they had been gunning for years go get Clinton on something, anything. I'm not a jackbooted morality policeman who points "THOU SHALT NOT" fingers at others' sexual escapades like the 90's-era Republicans were.

Your attitude is like those that blame the rape victims for dressing in suggestive clothing.

[PBS Poll-435]

56. Just

Orwellian.

[NJmaverick]

57. More like telling someone that is hit by a car, they should have looked both ways

Bill was stupid enough to give the repukes the ammunition they needed. He knew they were gunning for them, and did the stupid stuff anyway.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. It was just bone-headed..

:rofl::rofl:

[Bluebear]

127. YOU SAID IT. nt

[Saturday]

6. Your post is disgustingly republican. nt

[NJmaverick]

14. So is Hillary

[redqueen]

7. Uh, no.

The GOP had their knives out before Bill even got near the nomination for God's sake.

Let's remember history, shall we?

[NJmaverick]

17. Hmm that is so strange. I mean Hillary hasn't generated an anger and animosity

by campaigning Clinton Style, has she? I can't, for the life of me, see why they would have had those knives out.

[redqueen]

23. Whatever...

I'm just saying the attacks on her and Bill started LONG before they ever got near the WH.

[PBS Poll-435]

24. Fear? Change?

The Republicans/conservatives liked things just they way they were.

[NJmaverick]

28. Really and why have the Clintons generated those same emotions

from Democrats???

[PBS Poll-435]

32. Myopia

And selfishness.

And your OP fans the flames.

[NJmaverick]

35. When a couple manages to generate the same emotions in two very different groups

I think it's time to start looking at the couple, my friend. There comes a time, when you run out of excuses.

[PBS Poll-435]

40. OMG!!11!1!!

I think it's time to start looking at the couple, my friend.

Hmmm...Who do I know that talks like that...Hmmm....

[NJmaverick]

45. That's right this is John McCains secret DU identity

Instead of actually campaigning, I spend my time at DU bashing Republicans and supporting Obama and the Democrats.

[PBS Poll-435]

50. It would explain how John McCain is dealing with the lack of funds.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Yes, but WE paid because Bill couldn't keep his pants up and LIED about it.

OMG! It was NON-STOP coverage for MONTHS. :crazy:

[NJmaverick]

22. true

[redqueen]

26. Oh yes, I know that.

And I remember people I am very close to who believed Bill when he said it wasn't true, what they were saying about Monica. They defended him... and then had to face reality.

[PBS Poll-435]

27. Yeah...

It made the Republicans look cheap and stupid. 60%+ Approval ratings anyone?

[Warren Stupidity]

48. Actually there was a tremendous benefit.

I learned to turn off the false noise and leave it off.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Bullshit.

The Clinton administration was under massive coordinated bullshit media system assisted rightwing attack from they day they set foot in the whitehouse. The blowjob was just the one thing they found they could actually get traction with.

[NJmaverick]

31. So said the guy that did the exact thing in Weds debate

[Warren Stupidity]

36. what? Somebody got a blowjob during the debate? On TV?

Wow. I really missed that.

[PBS Poll-435]

47. This is not Europe!!!

We don't get to see stuff like that on the TV.

[Maribelle]

34. Flamebait

[NJmaverick]

38. Nice! A very dishonest reply to a very valid point

I have come to expect that from camp Clinton. I am sure you are furiously pushing the alert button, because you hate the truth (hence the support for the dishonest candidate).

[PBS Poll-435]

43. You saying it is valid does not make it valid.

You saying it is vaild makes you look ignorant.

[Saturday]

53. Even your reply is flamebait! nt

[NJmaverick]

60. What Ever! The truth is the truth

no ammount of spin can change that. I am sure the hillary flame bombing will shut down the thread, but try as they might, they can't change the truth.

[DemGa]

37. The liberal left is trying to completely re-write history

Erase all the positive aspects of the Clinton Presidency -- blame the Clinton's for the assaults they endured. And this, in an attempt to validate the fact that they've co-opted those very right-wing attacks.

Make no mistake: The Democratic Party itself is under assault from this "movement."

[NJmaverick]

39. Hillary is the one that opened this door

No one else.

[PBS Poll-435]

41. It is almost Orwellian.

This is the "Ministry of Truth" & the "Ministry of Love" at work.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. Huh? No the idiotic OP is idiotic.

And is being flamed across the board here from the Clinton supporters to the Obama supporters. Please do pay attention.

[NJmaverick]

46. Speaking of idiotic opinions....

Welcome! You are the FIRST person I am putting on my ignore list.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. I am truly honored.

[grasswire]

49. thank you for pointing out an insidious act

...as part of a long-time plan to ruin the Democratic Party. It all falls into place.

[lastliberalintexas]

80. Um, no

I'm about as liberal left as they come, indeed I even call myself a *gasp* Socialist. I may not have liked some of the policies of the Clinton administrations as being too conservative for my taste, but you will NEVER hear me say that the media assassination was anything but a coordinated effort of the right wing in this country.

Some Obama supporters might be trying to re-write history, but they ain't the liberal left either.

[grasswire]

42. that's ridiculous revisionism

BAH!

Blame the victims, eh?

Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent assaulting the Clintons. It was a COUP ATTEMPT by the right.

Slime the victims! Geez.

[NJmaverick]

52. If someone crosses the street, with out checking for cars

They are still the victim, but are partially responsible for their fate. Same with what happened to the Clintons.

[Tarc]

55. What's really nauseating is that three people agree enough to recommend it!

A handful of Clinton-hating Obama supporters around here give the rest of the bunch a very bad name.

[NJmaverick]

59. More like there are some people with the guts to say the truth

no matter how badly the hillary supporters will attack. The attacks are shameful and a disgrace and only proves to me, Hillary is ill suited to be president, if this is how her supporters behave. Then again, it's no worse than she has behaved.

[Tarc]

61. All it proves is that idiocy isn't a singular event

And there's people around here just as vile as you are.

[NJmaverick]

62. The reactions to this thread, already proved that point

[PBS Poll-435]

63. Yeah...

All but 1 disagree with you. Both Clinton & Obama supporters disagree with your premise.

[NJmaverick]

64. about 4 hillary supporters and one ignored Obama supporter

hardly provides you with much more support.

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Whatever you have to say

to self-rationalize.

[NJmaverick]

66. I am not a Hillary supporter

I don't have to "self-rationalize. My candidate isn't hurting the Democratic party or engaging in destructive Republican style politics.

[PBS Poll-435]

67. What do you think this is?

YOU are the one posting an OP of your complete opinion. No link to anything. These are your thoughts.

This thread was divisive & distructive.

This is worse than the Republican-style politcs, this is KGB-style.

[NJmaverick]

68. It's upsetting to those that don't wish to hear the truth

It's my opinion, and I logically explained how I came to that conclusion. If it wasn't valid, there wouldn't be the angry response from Hill's supporters. That's why it wasn't dismissed, it was attacked. The truth hurts more than fiction. If it was a crack pot opinion, it wouldn't have been worth the effort the small handful of you have invested

[PBS Poll-435]

72. You ? Logic? Crack? Pot?

You didn't explain anything.

Your logical bridge was something like .... Some people on DU don't like the Hillary Clinton campaign's supposed MO ... Therefore the Republicans were right about her all along!!!


:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Republicans and (some) Obama Democrats can find common ground!!!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:



All thanks to your "Logic."

[NJmaverick]

73. Considering the damage Hillary has caused to my beloved Democrats

I really find it difficult to take the opinion of those that support her all that seriously.

[PBS Poll-435]

75. Then just stick your fingers in your ears.

And BTW what damage has she done?

[NJmaverick]

77. You don't think camp Clinton's hard corp attacks have been damaging?

Why has Dean called for the end of the race then??? Why did the Clintons OWN former labor sec. talk about her destructive behavior?

Oh and check it out, the Recs are up to 4

[PBS Poll-435]

79. No. I don't. I think that this process will make either

Candidate unbeatable come November.

Dean doesn't want to have to deal with Florida & Michigan. So, if the race ends without the need to revisit that issue, he will save face.

And as far as Reich? Maybe he wants another job with the person he thinks is going to win.

[NJmaverick]

82. What "process"???? We are talking about Hillary's very destructive behavior

She has gone way over the line. Her campaign would be labeled hard corp attack, if this was the general election. What she is doing now is extrememely destructive to the Democrat's chances in November.

[PBS Poll-435]

83. NO..

The primary process has been the things of puppies & ponies.

What specifically has she done that is destructive.

And what for fuck's sake is a hard corp?

[redqueen]

70. I'm an Obama supporter.

This thread SHOULD embarrass you.

[NJmaverick]

71. I am an Obama supporter (and a good Democrat) and I think you are dead wrong

I think those that Democrats that wish to play the role of perpetual victim, need to wake up. If you don't think the Clintons contributed to their rough White House years, you need to take your partisan blinder off. The Clintons practice a form of politics that creates animosity, as we have all seen in the past few months. So he knew there were a lot of angry people looking to "get him". It was the height of stupidity to give them the ammo to do just that. So as I said, there is no reason to think Hillary's claims about how rough the White House is, are valid for anyone other than them.

PS- I actually EXPLAIN the reasoning behind my opinions. If you don't, it's just a meaningless belief.

[redqueen]

90. Partisan blinder?

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about history. If you want to blame the Clintons for the treatment they received you just go right on ahead and do so. Don't expect too many to hop on that bandwagon.

[PBS Poll-435]

91. And Partisan?

I thought we were all in the same party?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

93. Check the timestamp.

I fixed it before you posted this. :P

And yeah... I don't get that 'partisan' business. I sure as shit ain't partisan for Hillary! :rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

94. What I meant was...

This is not a partisan race. This is an intra-party contest. Nothing partisan about that.

And good eye on the '!

:P

[redqueen]

95. I dunno...

Couldn't we say people are partisan for one candidate or another? I'm not sure, just guessing.

And yeah I tend to notice that stuff pretty quick. Ardent grammar / spelling / usage nazi here. :7

[PBS Poll-435]

98. We are both right?

:shrug::shrug:

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Partisan

Par"ti*san\, n.

1. An adherent to a party or faction; esp., one who is strongly and passionately devoted to a party or an interest. "The violence of a partisan." --Macaulay.

Both sides had their partisans in the colony. --Jefferson.

2. (Mil.) (a) The commander of a body of detached light troops engaged in making forays and harassing an enemy. (b) Any member of such a corps. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.



American Heritage Dictionary

par·ti·san 1 Audio Help (pär'tĭ-zən) Pronunciation Key
n.
A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.
A member of an organized body of fighters who attack or harass an enemy, especially within occupied territory; a guerrilla.

adj.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of a partisan or partisans.
Devoted to or biased in support of a party, group, or cause: partisan politics.




:woohoo: :woohoo:

[redqueen]

100. No, just me.

;)

:evilgrin:

[PBS Poll-435]

102. Fine! -1 woohoo

Just one. For you.

[redqueen]

109. Ah I was only joking.

:P

[PBS Poll-435]

111. I know...

I really need to work on my SoupNazi. It is awful!

:cry:

[redqueen]

113. Hahaha...

I see it now. :)

[NJmaverick]

115. Seeing how the Clintons and her supporters behave

I wonder sometimes. Still I believe that there is a good form of partisanship (such as supporting the ideals of your party and putting the Nation's best interest first) and there is a bad form, which I have seen fully displayed on this thread, where people blindly and unquestionable support someone 100% because they have a "D" after their name. This is the sort of destructive partisanship, on the other side, that let georgie boy get away with all his crimes.

[redqueen]

120. Gotta agree with ya there.

Not about "on this thread" cause I haven't read it cause... well.. yeah.

But yeah... ignoring her backing up those neo-con lies about Iraq? BIG fucking mistake.

[PBS Poll-435]

137. You are helpless.

No one on this thread has blindly and unquestionably supported anyone.

You have been ugly and destructive, though.




And frankly. Please find a new metaphor. Someone getting hit by a car, while getting a blow-job, while crossing the street is just too much.

[NJmaverick]

112. To be accurate they "contributed" to their problems

Your choice of the term "blame" is disingenuous, in that it changes the meaning of what I said.

[redqueen]

116. It so fucking does not change the meaning of what you said.

Read your subject line for fuck's sake!

And the first sentence! "If Bill had kept it in his pants, you wouldn't have had the "very rough White House" you talk about..."

If you'd been more careful with your wording and started out by saying they *contributed* to it, that would have been a whole other kettle of fish.

As it is, though...

[NJmaverick]

123. Yes it does change the meaning,

To suggest "blame" would imply they deserved it.

Saying contributed would imply they did things that contributed to their victimhood.


Two good anologies

An adult that took a bat and hits a kitten, deserves to go to jail.


An adult who forget to look both ways and gets hit by a car, contributed to the accident.


As for being careful in my choice of words, the Clinton's poor choice of them angered me and I reacted accordingly. See according to your logic I am an innocent victim. After all I was provoked by the Clinton's baseless attacks on Obama.

[redqueen]

126. You didn't say or even *suggest* anything CLOSE to "contributing to".

Read your subject line again. Read the first sentence.

[NJmaverick]

132. I will agree it's an angry title. Angry over the lastest outragious

and damaging claims she is making.

You know it's like that person that got hit by the car (the one I keep using as an anology) going and telling me how I am not tough enough to cross this street. I couldn't handle the 4 months of being in the hospital. You know something I wouldn't appreciate that comment, and it wasn't even used as an attack.

[redqueen]

134. I see what you're saying...

but just think how much more effectively you could have made your point had you chosen your words more carefully.

I oughtta know. I'm an EXPERT at posting things in a rush, then regretting not trying to make my point more carefully after it's dissected by other helpful DUers. :P

[NJmaverick]

138. I guess there is some validity in what you say

It's possible people would have been more receptive if I took the anger out of the post.

[NJmaverick]

144. Although I will say this

Yesterday I posted a very thoughtful, calm and reasoned post. It was very indepth with explanations and examples. Yet that thread got only 3 recs and 3 responses. This one with the "poorly chosen wording" got 7 recs and plenty of responses.

Here is the other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5549242&mesg_id=5549242


So what's the lesson learned?

[redqueen]

147. Dude you gotta be kidding.

[NJmaverick]

156. Well what's better a headline that grabs attention

or a thoughtful post that's all but ignored? While I prefer the thoughtful post, it seems to have little affect in this particular forum.

[PBS Poll-435]

161. EFFECT

Affect is a verb.

[redqueen]

170. Sexy.

:D

[PBS Poll-435]

177. Haha!

This thread is freaking crowded. Took me a while to find you!

}(

[redqueen]

166. A headline that grabs attention doesn't have to be blatantly untrue.

Although posting something that just screams out to be corrected, that will get lots of responses.

[NJmaverick]

169. As we agreed, it wasn't "blatantly" untrue

It may have been exaggerated, but it's correct in that Clinton contributed to how rough his stay in the White House was.

[NJmaverick]

174. As we agreed, it wasn't "blatantly" untrue

It may have been exaggerated, but it's correct in that Clinton contributed to how rough his stay in the White House was.

[PBS Poll-435]

148. You prefer the attention of your Rove-style politics?

[NJmaverick]

157. Rove Style politics is what you and your candidate use

I hate that style of politics, and I am ashamed that a Demcrat (Hillary) would stoop to that level. I am even more dismayed that there are DUers that would still supporter after that.

[PBS Poll-435]

159. You don't know me.

Don't act like you do.

[NJmaverick]

162. I know enough by seeing how you behaved on this thread

to make those statements. You earned your reputation, that's all I can say.

[PBS Poll-435]

168. Bull.

Back it up.

[Tarc]

179. Yes, your trolling today was extraordinarily effective

Good job, twit.

[lastliberalintexas]

76. Utter crap

Before reading the rest of the thread, let me just say that Bill Clinton was not the first, and likely won't be the last, president to have an affair. And anyone naive enough to think that Lewinsky was the first action in the Oval Office, well, you might want to get out more.


The right wingers, aided by the US media, made the Clinton White House years hell, for them and the American people. it allowed them to distract, distort and manipuate the message, and they continue to do so today.

This is probably my biggest problem with so many of you Obama supporters on this site- you seem to think that he will forever be immune to media attacks and/or think that he and he alone can deflect from such media issues. You have apparently forgotten (or never knew) the struggles elected Dem officials have had with the media for the last 30 years, and instead now use that very same media to your advantage just because they are currently only or primarily going after his opponent. I fear many of you are in for a rude awakening once he is the nominee, and it's not going to be pretty for the partywhen the media you've built up tears down one of our own.

[NJmaverick]

78. Utter crap

I think those that Democrats that wish to play the role of perpetual victim, need to wake up. If you don't think the Clintons contributed to their rough White House years, you need to take your partisan blinder off. The Clintons practice a form of politics that creates animosity, as we have all seen in the past few months. So he knew there were a lot of angry people looking to "get him". It was the height of stupidity to give them the ammo (like having sex with a girl that was too young to practice discretion and then lie when caught) to do just that. So as I said, there is no reason to think Hillary's claims about how rough the White House is, are valid for anyone other than them.

[PBS Poll-435]

81. By God, You have convinced me!

Monica was the reason that we got re-elected in 1996. (First time in the 20th Century for a Democrat not involved in a WORLD WAR)



:sarcasm:

[lastliberalintexas]

84. I am not a Clinton supporter

I just hate seeing right wing talking points spread on this site, which has happened quite frequently during this campaign. The cocaine lies, the Vince Foster accusations, the Tammy Wynette Stand by Your Man malarkey- all media generated bullshit to distract, and all long before the Lewinsky incident.


Clinton might have made it easier for the media than he should have, but then I've never been under 24/7 scrutiny, either, so I don't know how easy it would be to find dirt on me. My bigger problem is with some Obama supporters who seem to think that the media won't be able to find or manufacture scandals of his own- and you seem to be one of those. The media failed the people during the 90s, much of the time by focusing on BS issues like sex in the White House rather than real issues. You seem fine with that, because for the time being your candidate is being treated kindly. When that very same media turns on your guy, you'll be singing a different tune- but by then it will be too late.

[NJmaverick]

97. What about the animosity the Clinton style campaign generates?

We have all seen how angry Hillary and Bill have made many fellow Democrats. So imagine what their tactics does to the other side.

I have a strongly held opinion that you have two options in your professional life.

1) You piss off lots of people. If you do this, you better be perfect. Otherwise the momement you slip up people will jump all over you.

2) You try and avoid pissing people off, so they are less motivated to take advantage of any mistake you might make

[lastliberalintexas]

107. No, the issue is the corporate controlled media

The fact that you and many other Obama supporters ignore the elephant in the room tells me all I need to know.

I'll be there to defend Obama when the media turn on him even though I'm not a supporter, just as I have been with the Clintons. It just saddens me that some people get so wrapped up in individual candidates that they lose sight of the bigger picture.

[NJmaverick]

119. You have ignored all the horrible things Hillary has done

so what's your point?

[lastliberalintexas]

125. I haven't ignored anything

I did not vote for Clinton in March, though I will vote for either her or Obama in Nov. This isn't about either of them, they just happen to be the ones running currently.

Compare and contrast the coverage given to Reagan, Bush I and Bush II with that of Carter, Clinton and Gore. If you can't figure out the problem after that exercise, then I can't help you.

[NJmaverick]

128. It's TOTALLY about her- She made these claims about how

"rough' the White House is, now she DESERVES to have those claims examined.

[PBS Poll-435]

131. And you

DESERVE a psych evaluation.

Why are you pushing this destructive shit?

[NJmaverick]

139. Are you serious?????? A Hillary supporter talking about

"destructive shit" Are you kidding?:wow:

[PBS Poll-435]

146. This thread is destructive and divisive.

Duh. :crazy:

[NJmaverick]

165. The thread and the tone were all INSPIRED by your candidate

You should be proud at how she brings out the best in people.

[PBS Poll-435]

176. No...This tone belongs to you. Own it nt.

[lastliberalintexas]

135. Thanks for this post, because it tells me you only care about your candidate

I don't have a candidate, and am instead focused on things that advance the issues I care about, like poverty, health care, civil and individual rights. The issues I care about can't be advanced so long as Corporate America controls our media, so that is also a big issue for me.

It isn't for you right now because the media has thus far been relatively kind to your candidate. You'll come around after he wins the nomination and they turn on him faster than you can say "But Hillary!" And again, I will defend him from all the BS attacks they'll throw his way when that happens, but I hope that you remember how you failed to recognize media manipulation for what it is and defend all our candidates in future elections, rather than just your favorite. :)

[NJmaverick]

141. You sound like a Nader supporter

Are you?

[lastliberalintexas]

145. And out of left field, the next question is...

Um, no, I am not a Nader supporter. Though I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China? :shrug:

[McCamy Taylor]

85. No one deserves Dan Burton's 1000 demands for documents. Get real

[NJmaverick]

99. It's not a question of deserves, iit's a question of letting it happens

If someone doesn't look both ways, and crosses the street and gets hit by a car, do they deserve it? No! However they contributed to their condition. That's the point I am making, that the Clinton made it tougher on themselves than it should be (by both their style of campaigning and by making stupid mistakes).

[grantcart]

86. exactly

[EFerrari]

87. That's got to be the most ahistorical post in this forum this season.

Congrats.

[NJmaverick]

101. Oh? Answer me this

Does the Clinton campaign style generate animosity?

Did Bill Clinton do anything stupid, that gave the people that hated him ammo?


After that, we will explore if your statement is accurate.

[EFerrari]

178. The Republicans never stopped attacking Clinton after he was sworn in.

Bill gave as good as he got but after his inaugural, nothing changed. The Republicans kept going as if nothing had happened. They wouldn't even call him "President Clinton" most of the time.

And that was long before his stupidity with Monica.

[QC]

88. It's not easy to throw up the dumbest post in the history of DU,

given how stiff the competition is, but you managed.

Congratulations!

[NJmaverick]

103. After reading yours, the best I could do would be second place

[QC]

104. "I know you are, but what am I?"

Did you study rhetoric at the Pee Wee Herman Institute?

[PBS Poll-435]

106. :-)

The Pee Wee Herman Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies

[Auntie Bush]

89. Don't you remember Gingrich and the RW conservatives?

It was rough in the WH long before Monicagate started. It was rough from the very beginning. Know what you are talking about before you make wild accusations. Don't you remember Clinton was a very popular president until Obama started running. Now you are trying to rewrite history. Just because you want Obama to win...doesn't mean you have to lie and trash the Clintons.

[NJmaverick]

105. Yes the Clinton style campaigning generated a lot of animosity

Just as it has amoung Democrats, even here at DU. When you do that, you can't afford to be anything but perfect. The problem is after that, you have to be perfect. Instead of being perfect, Bill seems to have gone above and beyond, in terms of giving the other side the ammo they needed.

[PBS Poll-435]

108. LOL...Winning may have generated "animosity" among the knuckle-draggers

[lastliberalintexas]

114. Yeppers. Methinks Mr. Nomad might have been too young

to pay attention to politics in 1992. The Clinton style of campaigning generated animosity? What? Like playing the sax and answering boxers or briefs? God, Clinton in 1992 was much like Obama is today- charismatic, youngish, good looking, eloquent and a tad light in credentials*. The only animosity generated was on the part of the right wingers who were pissed that a Dem actually dared win an election. :shrug:




* And that isn't an insult of either men, btw.

[NJmaverick]

118. Well you are as wrong about that, as you are pretty much everything else

I was 29 in 1992

So that pretty much sinks your credibility.

[PBS Poll-435]

124. Right...

Read the freaking text.

I think that she makes a very good point.

In 1992, Bush's re-election was a sure thing. He had a sky-high approval rating. He was a popular President that was respected for the quick and decisive victory in the first Gulf War.

And then Clinton won...

[lastliberalintexas]

129. Then you couldn't have paid attention to that campaign

At least not very well, or just choose to ignore your memory in favor of your current candidate. The media savaged Clinton, just as they had Dukakis, just as they had Mondale, just as they had Carter and just as they would Gore and Kerry. See a pattern there? I hope so.

[NJmaverick]

136. I paid attention to the campaign

I know about the Clinton's war room that housed the rapid response team. I know that as soon as an accusation came out, they were on the phones and the faxes working a smear campaign against the accuser. As a Democrat desperate to see the destructive Republican rule end, I looked the other way on that behavior. I dismissed it, as politics as usual. On the other hand, I doubt the Republicans did the same.

I also know Bill had one advantage the other men didn't have. Ross Perot

[PBS Poll-435]

142. Jenga!!!

Yep...

I think you have pulled every Repubican/Psycho-Conservative talking-point out of your butt and it caused your argument & phony outrage to collapse.

[NJmaverick]

151. No- that would be what Hillary and her supporters do

[NJmaverick]

117. Hillary hasn't "won" anything in these primaries

So explain that

[PBS Poll-435]

121. She has "won" as much as you have "made" a point nt

[Texas Hill Country]

92. the white house is rough for every president... some examples....

JFK - Civil Rights, Cuba, Missile Crisis, Berlin, and death
LBJ - Vietnam/Civil Rights
Nixon - Watergate
Carter - Iran
Reagan - Iran Contra/Economy
Bush - Economy/Iraq
Clinton - Whitewater/Monica
Bush - Wars

[NJmaverick]

110. There are two types of rough

One involves difficult problems and leading the nation. The other involves defending one's self from accusations of wrong doing. WHich one do you think Clinton was referring to?

[lastliberalintexas]

122. So why the fuck wasn't Bush I defending himself

from accusations over his affair with Fitzgerald? Who, unlike Lewinsky, was actually in a position of power and could have impacted US foreign policy through her affair with the president?

The answer, Alex, is that the corporate controlled media chose to ignore that scandal because it didn't suit their masters' purposes to try to bring down a republican president. Gosh, that was an easy answer for the $2000 question.


Do you still not get that the problem was not with Bill Clinton or what ammunition he did or did not give to the media, but instead was with the media itself in choosing to run with such non-stories? Do you think that Bush II has been subjected to even a tenth of the scrutiny that the Clintons faced in the 90s? Do you think that either Obama or H Clinton will be treated with kid gloves if one wins in Nov?

The problem is the media, and you're just perpetuating their power by using them to kill a rival within our own party.

[Bluebear]

130. What. An. Asshole. You. Are.

Yeah, blame the wife for her husband's infidelity. ("You guys made it so") :puke:

[PBS Poll-435]

133. ....

You said it, not me!!!

:hide:

(and you are right!) :hug:

[NJmaverick]

140. what a hypocrit you are. BLAME the victims of Hillary's latest destructive attack

You know I would counter that you are the "asshole" but I think that would be giving "assholes" a bad name.

[PBS Poll-435]

143. You have yet to detail this "attack."

What did she do?

[NJmaverick]

150. This is the latest of her destructive and vile attacks

Stepping up her criticism of her rival's performance in ABC News' primetime debate on Wednesday, Clinton, D-N.Y., told the FOX affiliate in Philadelphia, "I know he spent all day yesterday complaining about the hard questions he was asked. Being asked tough questions in a debate is nothing like the pressures you face inside the White House. In fact, when the going gets tough, you just can't walk away because we're going to have some very tough decisions that we have to make."

When pressed, Clinton continued the criticism, adding, "When the going gets tough you can't run away. And it's going to be tough going to deal with these hard problems; getting out of Iraq in the right way, turning the economy around, getting universal health care, ending our dependence on foreign oil. The special interests are going to be a lot tougher than 90 minutes of questions from two journalists and we need a president who is going to be up there fighting everyday for the American people and not complain about how much pressure there is, and how hard the questions are."

Sen. Clinton echoed her earlier comments to FOX in her first event on Friday.

"Some of you see that debate the other night?" Clinton asked the crowd in Randor, Pennsylvania. "Well, I know that some of my opponents' supporters and my opponent have been complaining about hard questions. Well, having been in the White House for eight years and seeing what happens in terms of the pressures and the stresses on the president, that was nothing. I'm with Harry Truman on this: if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I am very comfortable in the kitchen."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/hillary-clint-1.html

[PBS Poll-435]

154. WTF is so wrong with that?

She talked to a Fox-TV <------- Not Fox News LOCAL AFFILIATE. LOCAL NEWS/SPORTS/WEATHER/HUMAN INTEREST. NOT MURDOCH.

Jesus, are you dense?

And...This is politics. It is not an outrageous attack.

[NJmaverick]

160. She is suggesting that Obama isn't tough enough

because he didn't approve of her sleezy and destructive style of politics. Since you are blindly supporting hillary and she can do no wrong in your eyes, I will list some of the reasons that wrong.

1) She has no basis to make her false claim that Obama isn't tough enough

2) Her latest spin doesn't excuse her attack style politics that hurts the Country and the party

3) As I said in the start of this thread, they made the White House rougher than it had to be, so she is wrong to use her experience there as a good example.

4) Her comments don't contribute to solving a single one of the problems facing this nation

5) She made them on FAUX

[PBS Poll-435]

167. You spent the last hour giving opinions...and now

You are saying that Hillary Clinton can't give hers.

1. Her basis is the fact that Obama is being evasive about the possibility of 1 more debate. The NC Debate that he originally agreed to.

2. 2) Her latest spin doesn't excuse her attack style politics that hurts the Country and the party Latest Spin? WTF are you talking about. Hillary Clinton is hurting the country now? JESUS

3. Just cuz you said it doesn't make it true or evidence or real (except in your own delusions.)

4. 4) Her comments don't contribute to solving a single one of the problems facing this nation WTF? WTF? And what are Obama's comments doing to solve the problems facing this nation? JESUS

5. She made her comments to a FUCKING local news station. Not Fox Fucking News. Not Fucking Bill O'Reilly. Not Fucking Brit Hume. A FUCKING local news station that spends 10 minutes in 30 minute 10:00 news talking about the FUCKING weather.

:rant:

[NJmaverick]

172. ...

1) Obama is definitely not being "evasive". He has come right out and said 21 debates is enough. Seeing what a cluster f*&*K this last one was, I not only don't blame him, I credit him.

2) Attack, Mole Hill and Gotcha politics distract the Country from the REAL issues. If the Country focused on the real issues, georgie boy would still be drunk stupid and happy some where in Texas.

3) Are you suggesting that Hillary is not GUILTY of attacking Obama in the last debate?!?!?

4) See the difference is Hillary LIKED the last debate. She liked that it was about attack, gotcha and mole hill politics. Obama did not like that. That speaks to the character of both.

5) It was a FAUX affiliate. That is still part of the FAUX family.

[PBS Poll-435]

175. ...

1. He had previously agreed to North Carolina. He has backed out.

2. This is a political contest. This is how the process works. Look at some of Obama's mailers and tell me he doesn't do the same exact thing that you are accusing Hillary of.

3. Guilty of Attacking? Oh My! The OUTRAGE. That has never happened before in our country's history! Kerry never attacked Edwards. Gore never attacked Bradley. Nope. Didn't see it, didn't happen.

4. You are arrogant and dishonest about assuming anything that Hillary or Obama liked or she disliked. I like the answers that she gave to questions on the issues.

5. You have got to be kidding me with that.

Call the Obama Campaign RIGHT NOW and tell them they have lost your support because Obama talked to a local fox affilliate on February 5, 2008.

That is unacceptable !!!



Obama talks to Fox 10

[Bluebear]

149. "I know you are, but what am I??"

[NJmaverick]

152. I'll take you off ignore, in about 6 years when you turn 18

[Bluebear]

155. Stop! Don't put on ignore yet!

It's spelled "hypocrite". Not "crit". There, now have at it.

[Maribelle]

153. If wingnuts had kept their noses out of Clinton's zipper the country would have been better off.

[NJmaverick]

158. Yes we would have

However if he had kept his zipper closed, it wouldn't have mattered.

[Maribelle]

163. Wrong - - - Bob Barr is a fine example. The republicans were out to get Clinton regardless.

They wanted to settle a score - Clinton sent Bush I back to Texas in disgrace.

[NJmaverick]

164. They wouldn't have gotten their chance to "settle the score"

if Bill didn't give it to them.

[OzarkDem]

171. A real Democrat wouldn't make such a dumb statement

A real Democrat would lay the responsibility where it belongs - at the feet of the GOP.

Spin the facts and exonerate the GOP for their dirty tricks at your peril.

[NJmaverick]

173. A reasoned person sees there is blame for both sides

A GOOD Democrat doesn't practice bad partisan politics that blindly and unquestionably supports a poltician just because of the D after their name. A Good Democrat supports the party's ideals and puts the good of the Country first and then the party.

What you are doing is exhonerating Bill for having sex with a young intern and then lying about it when caught. You are ignoring the fact that the Clinton brand of politics stirs up anger and hatred, so there were plenty of repukes gunning for him. You ignore that with that condition existing, he did all those dumb things.


There is no exoneration for the GOP, but that doesn't excuse Clinton for what he did wrong either. It's called being open minded and fair. If I acted like you think I should, I would be no different that the partisan republicans that helped george bush get away with all his crimes. Those repukes provided bush with unquestioned support and put the party above the good of the nation.