The most puzzling thing about the Clinton's exit

[grantcart]

You would think that Hillary would at least want to have an option where she at least appears to have gone out on top.

Now with the latest moves and negative attacks it appears that she only wants to go out on a stretcher in a street fight.

Is there some scenario where the Clinton's think that at the last minute they can make a single speech inject it with a lot of

empty saccharine laced rhetorical flourishes and the party is not going to have a lasting impression of how really nasty the

Clintons turned?

[Texas Hill Country]

1. this is flamebait... please dont post crap like this. its no better than ABC's debate...

that Obama supporters keep screaming about.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. I don't really see the flamebait here.

The OP is asking a question about the Clinton's exit strategy given their current campaign mode. Where is the bait?

[roguevalley]

41. she has no exit strategy because she is determined not to lose.

its rather like American Idol folks. They are SURE they have talent and can sing. Then they face the votes of the panel and hear that they don't. They go out shocked. This rather strikes me as the same mentality. She cannot believe she can't sing.

[merh]

52. You nailed it.

n/t

[grantcart]

14. There is no inflamatory language or disparaging remarks.

The Clintons have abandoned all pretense of presenting an alternative rationale on a positive basis and are ventilating all negative attacks on Obama. A media analysis of their commercials running in PA showed that they were 100% negative. I am not raising this as a moral issue. I am asking what is their strategic planning where they haven't even provided for the possibility of leaving on high ground.

[yardwork]

16. I'm not seeing the flamebait in this one.

I've alerted on plenty of nasty flamebait threads against Hillary and others. This one seems to be calm and well-reasoned.

[Genevieve]

17. you don't see any flamebait because there is none...eom

[yardwork]

20. Well, there you go!

[Eric Condon]

55. "Flamebait" to the Hillbots means "implying that Hillary is fallible in any way." nt

[Zavulon]

23. YOUR post is flamebait.

There was no flamebait in the OP.

[apocalypsehow]

29. No, that posters reply is SPAM, and it litters nearly every thread in GD: P. n/t.

[Cha]

38. I imagine Ignore sits at the

keyboard..fingers at the ready when an Obama thread comes up on page 1.

[stillcool]

62. Yeah...I think I've had enough..

useless tripe. March 5, and over 1000 posts.

[cliffordu]

27. SO: Do you think you'll leave here after she steps down??

Or are you going to hang out until the General Election??


I hope she stays in until she is completely unelectable for ANY office, which should be any day now....

[lisa58]

2. They think they're gonna win and that....

...the political capital they are spending now, they will get back with the presidency.

It's tunnel-vision.

[blm]

3. They are just doing their job - they were SUPPOSED to get back in WH and cover up for Bush2

the way Bill did for Poppy Bush throughout the 90s.

Now they have to assure BushInc that McCain will win against Obama so at least there will be a GOP in the WH willing to protect the secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite.

Clintons cover up for Bushes - they always have and always will.

[redqueen]

40. Yup.

It gives me no pleasure to agree... but I agree.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

4. It's Hubrisism.

Can't quit, can't stop fighting, can't stop using self-destructive tactics, can't admit she's losing, can't even change tactics. Yes, it's going to have to come down to that one big concession speech.

EDIT: And I dont see either Clinton working up a sweat for Obama in the GE.
Theyll go through the motions for the sake of a future run.

[grantcart]

11. But they are smarter than this. It can't be completely reflex

[A-Schwarzenegger]

26. Briliant people are just as vulnerable to addictive behavior as idiots.

[grantcart]

43. I have seen it in Asian countries where somebody get so powerful that no one

ever contradicts them and they begin to believe themselves to be almost superhuman. It is an odd phenomena.

[JI7]

56. like that asshole in North Korea and his dead dad

[blm]

59. If you understood how Bill's 'legacy' is now very much a part of GHWBush's you'd see why they're

undermining Obama. And why they undermined Kerry. And why they undermined Gore.

Clintons need closed government, too, after deep-sixing all of the outstanding matters of BushInc's criminal operations for him and his powerful cronies throughout the 90s - many of who have been lining Clintons bank accounts by the tens of millions the past 8 years.

[irish.lambchop]

5. Both Clintons will HAVE to bust their

butts to unite Dems. I believe Mr. Clinton will make great strides in order to do this.

[BenDavid]

7. 2 internal polls shows this is working irregardless of what the

mswhoremedia say in their polling. So, look for a good win Tuesday from HRC and then go forward and win this damn thing and send obama packing till 2016......

[melody]

9. Firstly, "irregardless" is not a word. Secondly, whose "internal polling"?

I pay close attention to polls and I haven't heard word one about any "internal polls".

[Bucky]

18. Duhr. That's why they're called "internal". They're super secret. Double secret probation secret!

You can't know what's in 'em. You can't know who took 'em. You get no information on methodology, responses, demographic breakdowns, or "topline" findings of these internal polls. But believe-you-me, these internal polls show exactly what the pollsters are looking for. And they are the shockers. In fact, if they were any more shocking, I'd have to buy you dinner and hold my ring finger down with my thumb!

[melody]

24. lol - yup n/t

[SwampG8r]

48. bwahahahaha

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[grantcart]

28. a couple of Obama DUers have said that they have been told that in

PA the internals are showing high undecideds. This seems right to me because of the big swings in different polls.

[melody]

32. Sure they're Obama 'DU'ers', sure they are

I can't believe Pennsylvania is that stupid -- I have too much respect for the state. That big a deviation
from one bad mob attack on Obama? I would think the voters would be more intelligent than that.

[grantcart]

33. evidently there are some very conservative areas of Pennsylvania

[merh]

54. that's what "insiders" tell the supporters to give them hope

and to keep the money coming.

[Lucky 13]

35. Wednesday morning is going to be hard for you.

[JeanGrey]

60. Right.

[melody]

8. They're probably being blackmailed bigtime by the Bush machine

The Bushes don't let anyone get in power that they can't take down with blackmail or character assassination
(if that doesn't work, they kill them, as with Wellstone). There's no rational reason for the Clintons to be
doing this. They must be doing the bidding of someone.

[InfiniteNether]

30. Yeah, their corporate overlords, who ordered them to sink Obama at all costs.

[meow mix]

10. K&R

:applause:

[niyad]

12. can you make up your mind about whether you are referring to one or two people?

and also, please note that "clinton's" is a singular possessive, NOT a plural referring to two or more people.

honestly, this particular error drives me nuts.

[grantcart]

21. the exit of the candidate is singular - the tactical actions referred to are plural

and the second reference should have been Clintons'

[EFerrari]

49. The confusion is perfectly understandable as Hillary sometimes

runs as one person or as two.

[BlooInBloo]

13. It's the end of her career for all intents and purposes. May as well burn everything in sight.

[yardwork]

15. I believe that the Clintons can't fathom the possibility of losing.

I think that Hillary and Bill have been revealed to be true egomaniacs. They believe that they will pull this off. They don't allow themselves to consider the possibility of losing.

I guess that it's the attitude that is needed to survive in U.S. politics these days. I don't hold it against them. I don't think it will work, either, unless the corporatists steal another election for them. Which could happen.

[Bensthename]

19. nah, she is just going down fighting.. It may help Obama in the long run..

After all of this bull, when the GOP brings all of these "gates" up, people will be 'bitter' from hearing it so much already.

[IsItJustMe]

22. never thought of it like that, everything in life is a two edge sword.

[AtomicKitten]

25. She has chosen going out as a pariah to the party. So be it.

[apocalypsehow]

31. It truly is all about 2012 now. HRC knows she can't win the nomination, so she's invested in making

McCain the President. That gives her a clear shot to run again four years from now, her Party and the country be damned.

[IDemo]

50. After this, it gives her a clear shot to lose in 2012 as well

[Lucky 13]

34. I don't think it'll be a speech, more like a hit piece.

If that shitty campaign has ANYTHING left, they are gonna throw it at him this weekend or Monday. They have to. There's a possibility he's gonna steal this one out from under her. She can't afford that. It'll be the kitchen sink and anything else they got that's heavy or pointy.

Who knows what it will be?
Maybe someone speaking in a fake Arab accent saying, "Yes this is Osama. Please vote Obama."
Maybe we'll discover Barack's former high school sweetheart's father's cousin is a muslim.
Maybe they'll accuse him of flipping them the bird.
Maybe they'll try to say he's a wimp.

Honestly. WHO KNOWS? I wouldn't put much past them... maybe nothing.

The question remains, what DO they have left? Maybe they're out of ammo. Maybe they are just pausing to reload.

[AgadorSparticus]

36. I think she's out to take Obama down...not jsut for her sake but McCain's as well.

There is just NO justification for one member of a party to go so rabid after a fellow member. It's a total turnoff.

[Raine]

37. I agree

she wants to run in 2012 and she'd rather run against MacCain. Hillary doesn't want to run against an incumbent Obama.

[NanceGreggs]

39. K & R ...

... because this really is the biggest question mark of the primary: Why is Hill insistent on going down in a way that will taint whatever political aspirations she still may have?

And those who think this is 'prep work' for a shot at a 2012 run are as delusional as she is.

[WillyT]

42. K & R !!!

:shrug::kick::shrug:

[peoli]

44. She wont run again. This is why shes going kitchen sink.. in 2016 shell be McCains age.

[bigbrother05]

45. K and r

:hi:

[Catherina]

46. The most puzzling thing... is that it hasn't happened yet. n/t

[davidpdx]

47. Grant I agree with you

which is also why I think people are wrong about her running for president again. She has no creditablity left after this campaign. I've heard people suggest that maybe she'll get a cabinet post or appointed to the Supreme Court, personally I think that would be a bad idea. Let her serve out her days in the US Senate and maybe she'll get a leadership position and retire in 2019 or 2025.

[Spider Jerusalem]

53. I dunno, appointing her to the Supreme Court has an upside advantage:

she'd be politically neutralised. A lifetime appointment, a position of great honour, where she could do something of lasting and serious benefit in defending the Constitution against the encroachments of the far right. And she'd never run for political office again. And it would make the right-wing go completely frothing at the mouth insane. Where's the downside to that?

[davidpdx]

57. True, but two things worry me about that

First, I think the right wing would go full tilt wacko if she was nominated for the Supreme Court. I have to wonder if the right wouldn't fight that to the death. Second, some of the donations she has accepted in her campaign (as well as donations to her husband's library) call into question whether or not she would politicize the Supreme Court.

[EFerrari]

51. For two people so obsessed with their public image, I agree that

it's baffling.

There's no shame in fighting a good fight. But, what's happening now isn't a good fight. It's dirty and destructive and we'll all regret it. :(

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. I understand those who are against her because of Iraq - but women who hate her..

and call her a whore, etc. - to me that means that they are self-loathing. They have issues. Actually, I think that a man who would say that also has serious issues.

You can only have that sort of vehemence towards someone who has the same qualties that you dislike in yourself.

[Poll_Blind]

61. Grantcart, I think the POSSIBLE reason you're seeing this is they don't plan to exit BEFORE...

...the convention. No matter what. As in, if in every primary from here until the convention she gets no votes, she will still refuse to drop out. But why? The convention. It's her very last option: Hold the convention hostage to place her as the VP or, barring that, place another DLCer as the Presidential nominee.

  This all sounds pretty crazy, doesn't it? Well, it might be. But you have seen with your own eyes and heard with your own ears where she has taken this political race- and she's not done yet.

  And I questioned, as it seems you have, why she wasn't...leaving more options open in case things took a dramatic turn for the worse in her campaign. It's because she isn't being allowed to leave before the convention. The big money donors who sent that letter to Pelosi are pulling on Hillary and Bill as hard as Hillary and Bill will be lobbying at the convention.

  I think Dean has gotten a whiff of this- I mean how many other possibilities explain her actions to date? Which is why Dean's trying to get the delegates to stop pussyfooting around and just pick their candidate. He also realizes if this does go to the convention and there are still 250+ 'undecideds' the whole convention is going to be in extended breakdown mode.

Anyway, that's a possibility. Who really knows what the heck the Clintons' motivations are?

PB

[K Gardner]

63. Nice analysis.. makes one wonder what is REALLY behind this extended

run of desperation, with really nowhere to go and nothing to do but harm.

[Poll_Blind]

64. I dunno. When there is a information void we start putting our fears into it. It's...

...difficult to say where my proof ends and my fears and concerns begin. Unfortunately, I have proof enough to be very concerned about where this is going.

PB

[AZBlue]

65. Me too. It's gone on far too long to be a simple case of hubris.

[boppers]

66. They think it's still possible to win.

Yes, it's delusional, bizarre, and puzzling, but remember:

She thought it was true that her husband was faithful.
She's part of a fundamentalist prayer group.
She believed shrub would wait for the inspectors to finish.
She believed per-war intelligence given to her by neo cons.

Rational thought just plain isn't in her playbook, if that rationality conflicts with her beliefs.

[grantcart]

67. Yeah thats all fine but my question which wasn't phrased very well

is why are they not atleast preparing a contigency plan that will allow them to go out on top?


Is it because if they don't win they want it to end dirty? Is it possible that as some have suggested that they are thinking of


joining a national reconciliation ticket, as Lanny Davis has long advocated? Are they thinking that it is possible to tank 08 and


come back in 2012?


I just can't see why such very smart people are not atleast leaving the opening for a move to leave at the top with good will to all Democrats.