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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:02 PM
Original message
Graham and Clark
Kerry should pick from those two men, and I say that despite strongly favoring Clark and not even ranking Graham as my second choice. Every instinct I have screams out that Kerry needs to load his ticket with as much gravitas as possible this year. Every instinct I have screams out that the war on Iraq, and it's connection or lack of same to the war on terror, will be the defining issue of this election campaign. (Below I will add as a reply a piece I posted earlier called "It's the War, Stupid!"). And as the public shifts ever more solidly into the stance that we were mistaken to invade Iraq, it is increasingly apparent to me that Kerry needs to harness and unify the strong passions felt within the Democratic Party over Bush's failed war policy, and the perception some harbor that the Democratic Party was overly complicit in allowing Bush to take the United States into that war in the first place. By picking a perceived "Anti-War" Democrat, Kerry will show confidence in his ability to unify and lead our Party. It would be a show of strength for Kerry to pick someone with whom he once differed with some on such a critical issue. It would show that the differences between Democrats on Iraq are trivial compared to our difference with the Bush Administration.

Bob Graham or Wes Clark are the men who would best fit that bill. They both have served their country long and well. Each has expertise in foreign relations and the global war against terror. Each strongly opposed Bush on Iraq, early and loud. On top of the above, each is from a swing state currently still seen in play, and both have Southern ties which should overall be helpful throughout that important region of the country.

There is no such thing as the perfect VP candidate. Graham isn't, Clark isn't, Edwards isn't, Gephardt and Dean aren't either. But, for the reasons stated, Graham or Clark represent our best chance to increase the odds of our retaking the White House by being added to Kerry's ticket. Which is not to say that other possible tickets would not win, or that other possible tickets don't present different unique advantages to the Democratic Party. I am not knocking anyone here, just stating an opinion. And I will work hard for any ticket chosen by the Democratic Party.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. As usual...
insightful and legitimate mini-essay.

:yourock:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I also look forward to Tom's essays. I suspect he is a professional..
writer. If he isn't, he should be.

Hi Tom! :hi:
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. This is very much OT
but everytime I see your signature picture of the Bush "toast," I want to :puke:
Bush is such a dope. And he's the "leader of the free world." How ridiculous!
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I happen to agree with you 100%.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Disagree.
nt
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Racenut20 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Our VP Candidate needs to
1. Bring one state with significient electoral votes that we would not normally get. (or a couple of small ones)

2. Not cost us any swing states we can win.

my humble opinion.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree Graham would be excellent
and has tons of experience as a popular governor and Senator in a key battleground state and has legitimate foreign policy experience as a member of the Intelligence committee and debating many different foreign policy matters in the Senate.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Here is "It's the War, Stupid!"
It's a grit over glitz election year, and the grit this year is sand. Incumbent Presidents lose when something big goes very badly. Carter went down to defeat in 1980 with those helicopters in the desert. When the Iranian hostage rescue mission failed, so did his reelection attempt. The world was a scary place that year, and many thought Carter wasn't up to the job (they were wrong). Later, in 1992 Bush the Elder rode a bad recession all the way down into retirement, as economic numbers kept deteriorating throughout the campaign.

This year is more like 1980 than 1992. The economy is in trouble, but it was in 1980 also. Unlike 1992 though, the economy wasn't the big story in 1980, and it isn't this year either. While our economy was losing three million jobs, Bush's approval ratings rose. Now, after a million plus jobs have been "recovered", his ratings are falling. It's the War, Stupid.

When Bush left for Europe to commemorate D Day, you could just see him reaching for Winston Churchill's legacy, with his talk about facing down the Nazi's with the determination we must now show in confronting terror. Then Reagan died, and Bush returned to Washington grabbing at a more convenient legacy; Reagan confronting the evil empire.

America is an optimistic land, so all political speeches evoke the American Spirit of overcoming adversity to create a brighter future. In a glitz year, they take on the tone of celebration. They brag, they swagger, and they even wax poetic. In a grit year they warn that the American dream is endangered, that our children may not enjoy the same comforts freedoms and security that we have come to expect for ourselves, unless voters make the right choice on Election Day.

In a grit year Americans respond better to straight talk than they do in a glitz year. 1984 and 1996, and even 2000, were glitz years. 2004 is a grit year. People are worried about the future, and they want to hear more than slogans, they want to see more than imagery, they want to feel more than uplifted, they want to feel safe. They are worried about security and they want to know if their President can provide it.

The Public believes Bush is resolute in fighting terror, and they know terror must be fought. Words and phrases carry meanings. To be resolute is good, to waver is bad. Bush has already won half the battle of perceptions, people know he is ready and willing to lead us. The issues that will determine this election are whether Bush truly knows where to lead us, and if so, is he capable of getting us there? It will come down to a reading of character and abilities. Which team, Bush's or Kerry's, can be trusted to level with the American public? Which team really knows what it is talking about, and is not afraid to say so?

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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. Nope ..
... it's the economy stupid. It has ALWAYS been the economy.

The fact that a handful of American hostages were being held in Iraq was blown COMPLETELY out of proportion. The Reagan team conspired to keep the hostages where they were until inaugaration day.

But overall, I'd have to say that the stagflation had to do more with Jimmy Carters defeat. George Bush was a successfull war president in 92. But he lost because he was perceived as ignoring the economy.

It's the economy. It ALWAYS HAS been the economy and it ALWAYS WILL be the economy.

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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Today's St Pete Times reports...
...that the short list VP candidates appear to be Graham, Edwards, and Gephardt. As a floridian for the past 39 years, I can say that Graham is more than qualified. He was a good Governor, and an outstanding Senator for us. While a senator, he was chairman of the senate foreign intelligence committee, so he was speaking with a vast amount of personal knowledge when he spoke out against the Iraq war (that would take resources away from the more important war against al Qaeda). Also, I recall that his voting record indicates strong support for US servicemen and veterans. His negatives are that he is more of a policy wonk than charismatic candidate, and he isn't a fiery speaker, ala Edwards or Dean. His campaign style is much more laid-back. Though he is generally regarded well by floridians of most political persuasions, I can't say for sure that that would necessarily translate to additional votes for Kerry. The freepers are going to vote for the chimp regardless of who is on the Dem ticket, but Graham certainly won't cost Kerry any votes. All in all, IMO Graham would make a very good VP.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Very interesting background info from a homestater of Graham's. Thanks!
I really don't know much about Graham. He seems somewhat soft spoken, more so than Kerry, even. But if he has made the folks in Florida happy, well, that says a lot.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Graham would be my second choice
Edited on Fri Jun-25-04 12:56 PM by hf_jai
A VERY distant second, but of the ones we know have been vetted, second. He is qualified to step in if necessary. He has solid executive experience, and excellent foreign policy expertise, even if the two don't overlap. Of course, Clark's do in fact overlap, and I think that's a BIG plus.

I don't know enough about how vulnerable he is to RNC attack, or how much he'd help us win Florida, but he probably won't be any worse on either score than anyone else, even Clark. I am a little concerned about a Graham/Cheney debate, and Graham's potential appeal outside of Flordia, and don't think he can be near as strong in overcoming the prejudices that Democrats are weak on defense, but I think I could live with him.

If I thought about those who, as far as we know, have not been vetted, I could probably come up with better second-choices than Graham. But since I don't think Kerry would pick someone not vetted, and I don't think Johnson could completely conceal a vetting process, I'm not gonna bother.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. I supported Bob Graham before Wes Clark
got into the race.

Graham is super qualified to be Veep, however I prefer Wes Clark.

Many here have commented that Clark is not an experienced politician; that is one of the reasons I like him so much. His life has been honor, duty, country, & the fact that he is NOT a seasoned pol appeals to me very much.

If the American people have a chance to see him as Kerry s running mate, I believe they will also approve of him. With daily images of people being blown to smitheens, it will be reassuring to have a professional soldier on the ticket.

The uniformed military was never in favor of this war, & Wes can explain why Iraq has made us less safe.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. VERY TRUE !!!!

If Clark was to debate DICK, he could say personally why his Abu Ghraib policies endanger America!!!!

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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Nice observation!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yep
Clark and Graham as a somewhat distant second. I'm on board. :)
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. Graham is THE MAN.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. i would be happy with any one of them
while i still favor edwards and maybe some others. i would still be happy if kerry picks one of these two.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kick!
:kick:
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Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Graham
He seems awfully Vice-Presidential, that's for sure. But, I don't think he has the energy and charisma of Clark, Edwards, or even Gephardt. Plus, he's kind of conservative, isn't he? I'm suspicious of him.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Noooooooooooooo....Graham is rather liberal.
First, he didn't vote for the war...BIG plus!

Graham has loads of foreign policy experience, and is a brilliant politician. No, he doesn't have the charisma of Clark (or any of the other contenders), but he has broad appeal in Florida.

The only thing that makes me think it won't be Graham is his age, and his very recent health issues.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. What recent health issues? Has he been seriously ill?
Yikes.

Also, how old is he? Late sixties?
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. He had open heart surgery last year...
...and I believe he is 67 years old (someone correct me if my memory fails me on this).
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I forgot about his health problems
That could be a show-stopper for his selection.

I know it wasn't for Cheney, but certainly Kerry is more concerned with the long-term good of the nation that Bush or Cheney, so he would probably give it more consideration. Let's not forget that Kerry has had his own health issues too. If the Repubs keep the House, which seems quite possible, if not likely, that would put a Repub (and as of right now, one of the worst possible Repubs--Hastert) next in line for succession.

If Graham were obviously superior in every other way, I don't know that past health problems would be the single determining factor. But in a toss-up, it could.
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Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. Yep, DOB - 11/09/36 He'll be 68 this year...
but would only be the 4th oldest VP in US history.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Thanks for looking that up!
I thought I was pretty close with 66.

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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. squeaky clean resume, experience in law, construction and government ...
http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/graham.htm

Graduated from a public school. Went to Harvard.

Two term Governor. Three term Senator. Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Comittee. Bush Basher.

All this in a state that determined the result of the 2000 election. Bob Graham is THE natural choice. If I HAD to put money on the selection, I'd put it with Bob Graham.

I don't think the man is Vice-Presidential. I think the man is PRESIDENTIAL. And he'll make Dr. Evil Dick look like the colossal prick that he is.

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. I like Graham. He has one heck of a lot of experience in
Edited on Fri Jun-25-04 07:48 PM by janx
government on many levels, and he's a very bright man. He'd be a great running mate for Kerry.

Just as long as he promises not to sing...;-)
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GBD4 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ranking Member of Veterans' Affairs
since term limits forced Graham from the chairmanship of Select Intelligence, he's now the top Senate Democrat on Veterans' Affairs, which I think can also play well for the overall Kerry message
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
21. Graham would be my top choice
Wesley Clark may provide more appeal for the election, but I believe that Graham is for more qualified for the actual job of VP.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Who's better for the job of VP
Depends entiredly on how Kerry intends to use his VP.

If he wants a traditional VP who main job is to preside over the Senate and break ties, Graham is probably more qualified. Clark could do it--he's worked with the Senate, knows how it works, knows a lot of the people, is generally well thought of on both sides of the aisle, is a fast learner and very astute at picking up on the intra-Senate politics. But Graham definitely has the experience and would be more immediately accepted as one of their own.

If, otoh, Kerry wants his VP's main role to be presiding over the National Security Council, then Clark is better qualified hands down.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
22. Well, heck...
I've been saying this since Kerry wrapped it all up. :)

So - of COURSE - I agree with you!

(Still think Clark would be better, however!)
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. i think Bob Graham
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 09:28 AM by JI7
is one that almost everyone would be happy with if picked for vp. even though they might have other first choices, most will not be disappointed at all if bob graham is picked. probably because while he voted against iwr he still is overall much more moderate than kerry is. so it helps kerry balance the ticket with someone more moderate while at the same time making the anti iwr people happy. and of course everyone probably agrees he is fully qualified to be vice president and president.
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seahawky Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Edwards has what Kerry Lacks
Edwards has an enthusiastic optimism that other candidates for VP lack. This is something the Kerry camp needs badly. Picking Edwards and going into the convention with him will give Kerry a needed boast. Edwards is raising money for various senators around the country. People want to listen to his message. He can convey Kerry's message. The American people will want to listen.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Except he says the same ol ', same ol' in every speech.
He spent two years perfecting his stump speech. People might get tired of hearing about the son of a millworker and two Americas.
I personally prefer someone with more knowledge and substance than one who gives a great speech while smiling broadly.

I'll speak more kindly of Edwards after the Veep has been announced...but now all is fair in love and war. I love Clark and this is war!
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Thats one problem with Edwards
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 10:38 PM by Nicholas_J
He has stock speeches, and even the ideas he presented regarding his domestic agenda have all ben part of the democratic parties platform since the time of Franklin Roosevelt. THe idea of Two Americans, one for the rich the other for the poor were stright from Lyndon Johnsons ideas about the Great Society around which Johnson created Medicare, Medicaid, WElfare and other programs originally meant to give the poor a leg up and assist them to move up on the economic ladder. Most of his stock speeches and ideas essentially were "dumbing down" the ideas of the DLC in the Hyde Park Declaration:

...We believe that a progressive tax system is the only fair way to pay for government.

We believe the Democratic Party's mission is to expand opportunity, not government...

...We believe that all Americans must have access to health insurance in a system that balances governmental and individual responsibility.
..

...We believe in a new social compact that requires and rewards work in exchange for public assistance and that ensures that no family with a full-time worker will live in poverty...

... We believe in shifting the focus of America's anti-poverty and social insurance programs from transferring wealth to creating wealth....

Creating a New Social Compact for The New Economy

1. Help Working Families Lift Themselves from Poverty

In the 1990s, Americans resolved to end welfare dependency and forge a new social compact on the basis of work and reciprocal responsibility. The results so far are encouraging: The welfare rolls have been cut by more than half since 1992 without the social calamities predicted by defenders of the old welfare entitlement. People are more likely than ever to leave welfare for work, and even those still on welfare are four times more likely to be working. But the job of welfare reform will not be done until we help all who

can work to find and keep jobs -- including absent fathers who must be held responsible for supporting their children.
In the next decade, progressives should embrace an even more ambitious social goal -- helping every working family lift itself from poverty. Our new social compact must reinforce work, responsibility, and family. By expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit, increasing the supply of affordable child care, reforming tax policies that hurt working families, making sure absent parents live up to their financial obligations, promoting access to home ownership and other wealth-building assets, and refocusing other social policies on the new goal of rewarding work, we can create a new progressive guarantee: No American family with a full-time worker will live in poverty.

Goals for 2010


Finish the job of welfare reform by moving all recipients who can work into jobs.

Cut the poverty rate in half.



http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=1&kaid=128&subid=174&contentid=1926


pretty much all of Edwards ideas were a simplified restatement of these ideas put forward by the DLC as a Democratic Response to PNAC, in August of 2000. In fact one of the differnces between the Hyde Park Declaration adn Edwards campaign is that it set goals and clearly defined the means by which these goals would be accomplished.
One thing the media pointed out about Edwards, quite often, was that when he was pressed for details about both his domestic ideas regarding to "Two Americas" they could not get in depth answers from Edwards when he was asked for details about accomplishing the elimination of these two Americas.

When it came to foreign affairs Edwards was found to be evem more wanting in understanding of the thinngs that he brought up regarding those issues, and in fact was found to have a serioul lack of understanding of the issues that the nation currently faces in the foreign affairs arena. Examples:

Edwards rarely talks about foreign affairs when he campaigns, only mentioning the topic as it relates to job losses. When he is questioned specifically about issues, he will typically give a broad answer that highlights his experience on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Two days ago, however, the Los Angeles Times reported that Edwards was caught off guard when asked about the United States' relationship with the European Union. The EU, which is an economic union comprised of 15 European nations, has threatened to impose tariffs on American goods if Congress doesn't repeal a certain corporate-tax credit that the World Trade Organization has called illegal.

"I am not sure I even know what you are talking about," he said when asked if he supports the corporate-tax credits. "If I understand what you're asking, and I am not sure that I do ... I am opposed to us using our tax system to give tax breaks to American companies who are shipping jobs overseas."


Other aspects of Edwards record are that he was seen to be very unwilling to cast unpopular votes in the area of civil liberties:

The year 2004 will be rather early for a presidential bid by John Edwards, freshman from North Carolina; but he is ambitious, intelligent, a good listener, and, in his first term, he's shown a willingness to cast unpopular votes, for the sake of civil liberties.


http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2001/01/kaminer-w-01-19.html



Among the many problems that transpired this campaign season was the sheer lack of knowledge and almost complete unwillingness on the part of the supporters of some candidates to dig deeper and see where those candidates ideas actually came from. Edwards lack of time in political office are really a good excuse for this, but other candidates like Dean shamelessly stole ideas directly from other candidates, did a quick reqrite, and presented tham as his own. Gephardt very quickly pointed out the flaw in Deans poorly defined ideasabout national health and within days, Deans national health plan started stranglely resembling Gephardts. Before Kerry released his health care plan, Dean made changes to his own plan that incorporated ideas that Kerry had in his plan. THese ideas were ideas that Kerry had been floating around for over a decade and were incorporated into Kerrys original write of the Kid Care0 along with Ted Kennedy) program that Clinton wanted passed. The final plan was watered down by republicans, but the ideas of the federal government picvking up catastophic costs, the creation of an enormous risk pool, and allowing American citizens and small businessesto buy into the same plan that Congress has, were alll ideas that Kerry floated about during the peoriod CLinton was attempting to institute a national health program in the early to mid 90's. All of thsi stuff was sitting in the Federal Reguster fot Dean to pick through and he did. Even more interesting was Dean first Foreign Relations speech, given before the CFR, which was paragraph by paragraph, cribbed from Kerrs speech before the same group, six months earlier, in January of 200, and other ideas which came from Kerry's op-ed piece in the New York Times in September of 2002. Both Edwards and Dean's lack of experience in these areas resulted in their going to the records of other candidates who had served on various COngressional Comittees in various areas, but their supporters tended to treat these releases as indications that their candidate of choice was some kind of prodigy in areas they had virtually no experience in.

The idea that Edwards, no matter how well he speaks, no matter how enthusiatic or capable he is, will be able to convey ideas to the public that he has been see to have seriouls lack of understandin in simply will not hold weight. Repeating the same stump speeches over and over again will not hold water either.

Finally, the areas in which Edwards shines, Charisma and Charm will be two areas that he will absolutely have to reign in if he wishes to be running mate. There is no way that Edwards will be able to appear to be better thatn Kerry in ANY area without such behavior being jumped on by the Bush machine in order to persuafe the undecided thatv Kerry does not have the leadership ability necessry to be president. If his own running mate appears to be better than Kerry, the argument will go, he certainly has no place leading.

it is an argument used by those comitted to the Democratic partywhen it comes to Bush. The fact that Bush appears to be a president who doesnt understandwhat is going on,, to the degree that Cheney has to be sent out to do the extemporaneous speaking on issues regardin Foreign Affairs, adn it is Cheney who has to go out and attack Kerry's positions, gives substance to the the nickname "Dumbya" being applied to Bush. In no way can Kerry select a running mate who will appear to outshine him in any area. To my mind, Kerry is far more Charismatic than Edwards, but then again, I expect the candidate that I support to have an indepth understanding of all aspects of government and be able to speak n depth, and with nuance about all of the events of the day. Edwards cannot do this well. I dont find stump speeches that say the same thing, but do not reveal what the candidate inteds to do to fix the situation particularly inspiring. I like Edwards, he is an honest and honorable guy, but he just doesnt really have the experience or understanding of issues that someone who will be expected to become the president under unexpected circumstances needs. No amount of advise from cabinet members can substitute for personal experience and understanding in thses areas.

When Dean was approached with his lack of experience and understanding of areas like National Security, and Foreign Affairs, his statement that he would get good advisors sank like a lead balloon. The same thing would apply for Edwards who would be expected to be as knowledgeable as possible in these areas if the event occured where the VP had to become president. Edwards does not have the experience or knowledge to do this. Lacking this knowledge and understanding, he certainly will not be able to convey Kerry'sideas any better tyhan Kerry. You cant teach what you dont know or understand.

In that light, there is certainly one place that Edwards would shine. That is as Attorney General. He knows the law, Knows it well, and certainly would act in the interest of the average citizen rather than in the interest of corporate scum. This is something he has done already, and done well. This is one ares in which the slur of "TrialLawyer" would serve as a badge of honor, rather than a means to tear Edwards down. And this would certainly serve to give Edwards more experiece in the Executive Branch to prepare him or a presidential run. As it did for Bobby Kennedy.







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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
47. There is nothing about Edwards that is hurting him
With just a little bit of recognition form the networks, at the beginning of the primary time, Edwards would probably have been the Candidate...Remember how he spent all his time in S.C, while Clark campaigned constantly in Oklahoma, and even in that case Edwards came close to beating Clark...
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. If Clark would have used the same message, could it have helped him
It seems to be helping Edwards..visiting in Ohio several times, and who is leading there? I think Kerry..and in most battle ground states ,Edwards speeches have helped Kerry....
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yes they have, and so have Clark's attacks on Bush re: National Security
Soon enough we will all be able to sit back and acknowledge that the Democratic Party is a team effort, and agree that we have to keep hitting Bush on all fronts while promoting a Democratic vision for America. In truth we already are all pretty much there, waiting for the VP choice is a distraction, though a meaningful one. The Kerry campaign actually has to make strategic decisions about what points to emphasize in which ways, and the VP choice plays into those choices. But there is broad agreement. Edwards and Clark will both contribute to winning the election, and they will contribute to a Kerry Administration. I'm confident of that.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. That and a quarter
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 09:02 PM by Nicholas_J
will not get you elected. No vice presidential running mate has EVER been selected for the qualities that those who support Edwards beleive that he should be selected for. Aside from enthusiatic optimism, Edwards has almost nothing to offer Kerry;s canpaign. A number of political observers have noted that it is Gephardt who actually has the most to offer the Kerry campaign, and this was most recently stated in the the British journal, the Economist:

...The swing states are said to have a greater share of wishy-washy voters. Recently, the British magazine The Economist deemed Missouri the most important of the contested battleground states, claiming that ''as Missouri votes so votes the rest of America.'' It printed a map of the state highlighting Democratic strongholds: counties bisecting the state hugging the I-70 corridor, St. Louis to Kansas City. President Bush has been to Missouri almost 20 times already and Sen. John Kerry nearly half that...

...At the Kerry campaign headquarters in Columbia, Mo., the state's largest college town and another Democratic bastion along I-70, a staffer spent more time denouncing Attorney General John Ashcroft than George W. Bush, but that came from the man's intimate knowledge of Ashcroft, who was Missouri's governor for eight years. "We thought we drove a stake through Ashcroft's heart when we elected a dead man instead of him" -- in the 2000 Senate race -- "but he keeps popping back up. I'm working for Kerry as a penance for Missouri foisting Ashcroft on the whole country..."

...Among those who plan to vote for Kerry, more energy was devoted to the question of just who Kerry would choose as his vice president. Dick Gephardt, who is well-know to Missourians, given his long service in Congress as its representative, elicited groans and epithets ("boring") -- though all were certain tapping Gephardt would bring Kerry the state. North Carolina's John Edwards, though, was far and away the female favorite. Countering conventional wisdom, this election might hinge on the Democrat's choice of veep: Whoever it is, he is likely to be more popular with voters than the unpopular John Kerry...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/orourke/cst-edt-rour20.html

One thing that those who know politics state about Edwards, regardless of charm. He will not be able to bring a single state over into democratic territory.

Kerry's campaign manager has also recently made a number of statements about Kerry selecting a cnadidate who has had considerable political experiene, because the campaign is rapidly moving from one of demoestic issues back to one regarding Foreign Affairs and National Security.

One thing is certain, Kerry is being more cautious about making his selection than any candidate in the last century. He is said to have been closely studying the vice presidential selection process made by every president clear back to the election of 1930 and has been said to have made the statment that he will not make the kind of mistakes that others have made. He is carefully looking at the pasts of all of the people being vetted for the vp slot. He is said to want to avoid the kind of scandals about VP's that have cropped up over the last 50 years, in some cases. like Agnew, requiring the VP to resign to avoid problems...

How much any of this will influence Kerry, who is reported to have held two private discussions with Edwards, is unclear.

Campaign manager Cahill also said recently that the war in Iraq had increased the importance of picking a vice president with "the stature" to handle national security.

Wynn acknowledges that the buzz about Edwards among Democratic politicians could amount to nothing.

"It's a funny thing," the Maryland congressman said in an interview. "Edwards has gained significant support, but it's not like a race where he controls his own destiny. He could have the greatest momentum in the world."

But in the end, only one vote counts: Kerry's.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.veep19jun19,0,2030688.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines


So far, only two peopleregularly meet with Kerry to discuss what is necessary for the VP nomination, and Cahill is one, Johnson is the other. Both state that nether of them have any idea who Kerry plans to choose.

I am concerned that those who want Edwards do so simply based on his popularity and optomism. That is not enough to do the job of running the country. One might say that George Bush has the same qualities. At least he does to those who support him.

There are a number of problems that Kerry has had with Edwards, and a number of problems that Edwards has directly caused for Kerry's campaign which accoring to some in the Kerry camp, have caused a considerable amount of bad blood towards Edwards in the Kerry camp.

The biggest problem that Edwards caused is that he dragged the primary season on for a great deal longer than it needed to be. Mostly because Edwards insisted that he would not accept the VP seat and that he was running for the Presidency and would keep running clear through to the convention. This cost the Kerry cmapaign intold millions in campaign finances needed to run against Edwards, rather than store them up to use against Bush.

Another thing that Kerry is well known for. He is not one to make choices based on speculation , and it is well known to his cmapaign staff that though he appears calm before the public, he agonizes over every decision and he goes over every fact. Kerry's decisions tend to be based on facts, evidence, and rarely on opinion. When, makes the decision it will be base on facts about the final selection, what the candidate brings to the campaign in cold, hard, tangible support, not in vague unmeasurable qualities like optimism or enthusiasm. IN fact, when you compare Edwards to other possibilities for the VP office, he does not seem to possess any more optimism or enthusiasm than any of the other people Kerry is considering.

Finally one fact, one very historaically clear fact indicated that things do not looks as well for Edwards as those who support him would think...


A recent Associated Press poll conducted by Ipsos-Public Affairs suggested that a majority of registered voters want Kerry to pick Edwards.

Four years ago, few predicted that George W. Bush would turn to Dick Cheney, who headed his search team, or that Lieberman would become the first Jewish vice presidential nominee.

"The vice presidential nomination almost always doesn't go to the person who the people most expect. That doesn't bode well for John Edwards," said Steve McMahon, adviser to former Kerry rival Howard Dean.



Missouri is a state that Kerry needs. It is also a state that Gephardt has the greatest swing in, outside of the fact that isi is his home state. It is also the state pf John Ashocroft, who demos slammed to get out of office in that state. Also, the Governor of Missouri, Bob Holden, is heavily supported by every large4 labor union in that state, but more than that, is an ex-Gephardt aide. Organized labor is a key voting block in any democratic campaign. If not the largest/

So far the AFL CIO has provided more financial support to Kerry than all other organizations supporting the Democratic Party. In May alone, they ran pro-Kerry programs that cost 44 million dollars.At the same time that they did this for Kerry's campaign, The AFL-CIO, the Teamsters, and the United Auto Workers all strongly requested that Kerry select Gephardt as his running mate. No matter what, this is a debt that Kerry will hacve to pay back, either now, by selecting Gephardt, or later and a lot more often, if he is elected. The AFL-CIO hinted when they asked for Gephardt that they were willing to spend a great deal more money to help Kerry unseat Bush. particularly during the period between Kerry accepting the nomination, and the Republican Convention, so that Kerry will not hqave to heavily dip into his limited funds during the period when Bush can raise and spend unlimited funds to attack Kerry, while Kerry will bel limited to the 75 million Dollar limits. So far, AFL CIO has spent more money in just one month that Move On .org has raised in total. Kerry needs the unions, It looks like he needs Missouri, and it looks like he may need Gephardt, a good deal more than he needs Edwards, but then again, as noted, one can never tell. Edwards has very little to offer. Personality and Charm do not really make it. Cold hard cash. political support from large organizations, political support from local state elected democratic officials, and the support of local organizations that support them, are far more critical to winning an election than a boyish smile.

Strategically, that is all Edwards really has to offer. He can not realistically be counted on to add one state to Kerry's electoral total. Gephardt has a far better chance of doing so.

One other thing is clear about Kerry, that all of the political pundits have not picked up on. Kerry has not made up his mind yey who his choice is. Another trait of his is to make decisions at the last minute, according to those he is meeting with regularly to discuss the VP choice.

So, as far as it goes. the list of what GEphardt can do for the Kerry campaign, not in vague, unmeasurable and unpredictable qualities like Charisma, enthusiasm, etc, but in cold hadd reality, is a bit longer than such a list is for Edwards.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. AMEN!
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. Wow! That was a long hard slog!
Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 10:29 PM by Anti Bush
But I did it. You are correct regarding Edwards. But I still much prefer Clark over Gephardt as he is really :boring: and wouldn't wake up America who are still :boring: Clark and his criticisms of Bush and this stinking war will wake up America. The Administration and the media will be so busy defending Bush...this campaign will be on fire. Clark will give Bush his MARCHING ORDERS!

on edit- Sorry, This was an answer to NickJ #30
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Kerry needs some QUALIFIED FOR PRESIDENT
badly--not 'optimism'. Gimme a break, who ever heard of hiring someone with ZERO qualified foreign policy experience for a job that requires same just because they are 'optimistic'? Bogus!
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. As things develop,
particularly with th problems in Iraq, the needc for a running mate with at least some degree of experience in Congress growms mre important. Edwards is a very good speaker, is very charming, and to a degree, when dealing with generalities, can seem very charismatic, but the fact is that whoever is Kerry's running mate will be put up against Dick Cheney, and like his political convictions and ideas or not, he has a considerable amount of experience in both Foreign Affair and National Security. He also has a considerably amount ot experience in domestic affairs as well. Edwards charm and whit might hold up for personal hits againt Cheney during debates, but that only scors a few points in the debate arena. KNowledge and Experience are the key factors when one goes into a political debate, which is why Bush is being very cautious about going into a debate with Kerry, and why Bush wants any debate to have all questions given up fron in advance with no surprise questions. Edwards is smart, but he the media and others have pointedv out that there are some rather glaring areas in which he iiis lacking in knowledge, not based on his lack of ability, but on his limited experience in those areas. Kerry's running mate is going to have to be able to against Cheney., blow by blow, and in some cases it is going to have to be extemporaneously
Cheney has a good deal of experience in thgese areas, and is knowledgeable. It will do little good to underestimate Cheney, because one finds Edwards enthusiastic, charming,optomistic, with a schoolboy smile. Remember, these guys set up the table before the election in 20009 and cheating, unethical behavior and all that doenst matter. They set up the game so that they would win even if they lost. For the last 4 years there have been repewated attempts to pry free the record of Cheney's dealings with Ken Lay, and Enron, plus no matter how much is revealed about the fake intelligence used to get us into war in Iraq, Cheney and others in the Bush Administration have arranged to leave as little a trail as possible. They have made it very difficult to go after them for breaking U.S. law regarding use of force, as well as international law. They have been able to first define the peopple languishing in Guantanamo as enemy combattants, in order to avoid having to leave them to face justice in their own countries of origin or in Afghanistan, where they were captured and where they were involved in fighting, so as to not have to be subject to the limitations of either international or American civil law, and then turn around and decide that they do not have to treat them accoring to the rules governinr enemy combatantsbecaue they are terrorists.

While there are attempts to go after Cheney, these guys have figured outto the best of anyones ability, how to leave as little shit sticking to their shoes as possible. Whoever goes up against Cheneyon Kerrys behalf is going to have to KNOW Foreign Affairs, National Security issues, and Domestic issues in a way that indicated that they have had at least as many years dealing w2ith those issues as Cheney.

Edwards as VP just because those who suppurted him for the presidency want him to be surrogate president by being selected as running mate also waste Edwards best skills and abilities. He has a serious lack of knowledge in a number of areas, but he cannot be faulted as being incapable, just inexperienced. AS I have said before, it would be a travesty to place Edwards in a job that he has little experience for, and not place him in the position that is best suited to skills he does have, and experience which he does have.

I would not want to be Tom Delay, Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist, or any number of Republicans who have seriouslly broken campaign laws, as well as the many other laws that Republicans have either broken or stretched to the limit during the last 4 years in order to pack both houses of Congress,if John Edwards becomes attorney General. In fact, Edwards is the only person on the Democratic side, or on Kerry's side who has the ability to go after the Republicans in Congress, and in particularly go after Tom Delay's fund raising crimes designed to provide so much money to Republicans running to unseat democrats. Only Edwards has the skills, abilities, andexperience to go after Delay and others if Kerry is elected, to sucessfully pgo after these guys and to do everything possible to remove not only them from office, but those people who were elected using Delays funding.. There are any number of methods that a good attorney general can use to go after these guys and at the same time get around the Republican majority who have been preventing democrats from going after them in Congress. A Edwards Vice Presidency would be far weaker than an Edwards Department of Justice. U wiykd almost feel sorry for the Republicans. Almost, not for real. Edwards could tear them a new asshole, and do so with that schoolboy charm. He went after large corporations in an enviroment that favors them, and he won more often than not. I have no doubt that he would do the same in the Department of Justice. There is no one better for that job than Edwards and not placing Edwards in that position gives Republicans a massive advantage in retaining their ill gotten majority.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Agree, in large part, to your analysis.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. Kerry has already been sending signals he does not want Edwards....
..but no one wants to listen to them. Two weeks ago, a story where Johnson himself said what Kerry required of a VP--and it was definitely not Edwards. Kerry himself said he wanted someone with FP experience--definitely not Edwards. And even Chris Heinz, who originally supported Edwards, said he believed Kerry needed to go with more FP experience in his VP. Not to mention the statement made by Kerry himself: 'What makes him (Edwards) think he is qualified to be President'.

I don't care if it is Clark as long as it is someone who can step in to the presidency and know what they need to know about foreign policy immediately--that isn't Edwards.

The signals are out there, but one has to unplug their bias to hear them.

And this, linked to another DU'er with media links:

Kerry's campaign manager has also recently made a number of statements about Kerry selecting a cnadidate who has had considerable political experiene, because the campaign is rapidly moving from one of demoestic issues back to one regarding Foreign Affairs and National Security.

One thing is certain, Kerry is being more cautious about making his selection than any candidate in the last century. He is said to have been closely studying the vice presidential selection process made by every president clear back to the election of 1930 and has been said to have made the statment that he will not make the kind of mistakes that others have made. He is carefully looking at the pasts of all of the people being vetted for the vp slot. He is said to want to avoid the kind of scandals about VP's that have cropped up over the last 50 years, in some cases. like Agnew, requiring the VP to resign to avoid problems...

How much any of this will influence Kerry, who is reported to have held two private discussions with Edwards, is unclear.

Campaign manager Cahill also said recently that the war in Iraq had increased the importance of picking a vice president with "the stature" to handle national security.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
39. Graham fits ALL the criterea:

Legislative Experience:
Graham, Edwards

Foreign Policy Experience:
Graham, Clark

Ability to deliver one or more "southern" states:
Graham, Clark, Edwards

Experience:
Graham, Clark

Experience as a governor:
Graham

Universal support of Randi Rhodes:
Graham ;-)

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
59. I truly love Bob Graham
He was my pick before he dropped out of the race and Wes Clark entered it, although Kerry was always in there even as he appeared to be failing. But Graham's never gotten the respect he should have commanded on DU. The early fall here was shocking in this regard. I couldn't believe how this candidate of substance and experience was ignored or ridiculed.

Before anybody says it, I don't find Bob Graham boring or peculiar -- that's all bullshit.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. Non VP job for Clark ...

There is of course the Secretary of State job. But something tells me that Clark would be the perfect guy to oversee straightening out the Iraq mess. He has the liberal instincts that will tell him that more diplomacy is needed over bullets (which we've apparently run out of anyway).

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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Don't worry, Bush and AssCraft will be at my door any moment...
...to gather up my household and force us to work in the bullet factory, or send us to Gitmo.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. Question about Graham's opposition to the war.
I never followed Graham real closely, so this maybe something I'm remembering completely wrong, but I could have sworn that he voted against the war resolution because it didn't grant Bush enough latitude in pursuing Saddam?

Maybe someone can help me here. Everybody is saying he opposed the war, so I'm probably remembering this wrong.

Otherwise, this is a guy I need to take another look at. (So that if Kerry calls me for advice, you know, I can help him out.) This is definitely not a guy who will upstage Kerry, and he is unmatched as far as bringing the electoral votes is concerned.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. No, not Saddam, but for pursuing actual terrorism.
Graham stated that the Iraq War Resolution did not go far enough in fighting actual terrorism. He referred specifically to groups such as Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Palestine Liberation Front, Abu Nidal and Hamas.


From an October 13, 2002 Press Release from Graham:

http://graham.senate.gov/pr101302.html


.....Congress has granted President Bush the authority to use all necessary force against Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq. I voted against the resolution -- not because our nation has nothing to fear from Hussein but because I am convinced that the resolution misstates our national priorities in a dangerous way.

What is our greatest responsibility? The answer is easy -- securing the peace and safety of our homeland. Right now the most urgent threats to our security are posed by the shadowy networks of international terrorist organizations that have the capabilities to repeat the tragedy of Sept. 11 -- not Saddam Hussein.

At least a half-dozen terrorist organizations that have an avowed hatred of Americans, including al Qaeda, have proved they have the materials, the recruited and trained operatives, and the command-and-control structure to launch a domestic strike. Many of those bomb throwers are sleeping among us, waiting for the order to assault, as did the 19 killers who took silent refuge in the sanctuary of the United States until they struck on Sept. 11, 2001.....



....The resolution that was passed last week in Congress erroneously suggests that Saddam Hussein is the ultimate bully in the world, and that taking him out now and for good is to be our nation's top priority. Hussein may be the baddest guy in the Middle East, but he is just one of the bad guys -- and he does not pose an immediate threat to our homeland, according to a recently declassified assessment from the CIA....


.....If this were 1938, the course advocated by the president -- and endorsed in the congressional resolution -- would be the equivalent of the Allies' declaring war on Mussolini's Italy but ignoring Hitler's Germany. We are turning our backs on the greater danger, and pretending not to recognize that an attack on Baghdad could spark the wake-up call to the terrorists sleeping in our midst.

We cannot protect the homeland by playing defense. We must go on the offense. The president should come back to Congress and request the authority to use all necessary force to dismantle the terrorist organizations capable of striking in America.

There is widespread belief that the president already has this power. In fact, his authority is limited to those nations, organizations and persons that can be directly linked to the Sept. 11 conspiracy.

The resolution just passed by Congress allows the sanctuaries of the next generation of terrorists to remain standing, including the training camps where, in the 1990s, thousands of zealots were given the skills and determination to be hardened assassins.

Our national will and our obligation to the security of the American people -- especially on our native soil -- demand a fuller response to meet the larger challenge America faces.



(emphasis added)




And, from the Senate floor before the passage of the IWR in October, 2002, Graham said:

"If you believe that the American people are not going to be at additional threat, then, frankly, my friends -- to use a blunt term -- blood is going to be on your hands."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A63703-2003May1?language=printer




Hope this helps, leyton!

:)
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Nice media clips!
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Glad you liked 'em, cosmokramer!
Ol' Bob is *where it's at*.

O8)
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. There were two people...
...in contention for Kerry Administration positions that DID NOT approve of this war: Clark and Graham. BOTH are, without question, men of honor and Kerry will be lucky to have them.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Agree. Both have unassailable character.
Personally, I feel that the wisest placement is:

Graham as VP
Clark as Secretary of State
Edwards as Atty General
Gephardt as Secretary of Labor

And, for what it's worth...

A non-politician for CIA Director
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GBD4 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. right on
ah yes, the "blood on your hands speech" ever so dramatic, but ever so true. the man has never been so emotional over politics in all his decades in office until this shrub somehow was Selected president. Sen. Graham's a good man!
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'm Beginning to Think Gravitas Beats Charisma
for this election.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Why choose, when you've got someone who has both?
See that guy in my avatar?
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
60. Kerry asked Graham for *all* of his journals.
And there are THOUSANDS of them.

Y'all don't forget 'bout ol Bob, now. LOL

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., has reportedly turned over to Kerry aides the voluminous notebooks he has kept through the years, an indication that Graham remains in contention. As a former governor who became an expert on intelligence and foreign affairs in the Senate, Graham may have the best vice presidential resume. Kerry personally likes Graham and is comfortable with him. Graham could help Kerry win Florida, the fulcrum of the disputed 2000 election. Drawbacks: age (67), health (heart surgery last year) and a slightly off-beat image (those aforementioned journals are said to be more running tick-tocks of the mundane than big-think diaries, giving journalists and opposition researchers plenty to plow through). Odds: 6-1, but improving.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/raasch/2004-07-01-2004-07-01-raasch_x.htm

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salonghorn70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. The Reason Graham Won't Be Picked
They are probably still reading the thousands of journals.:)
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Hope everybody's bifocals are up to it! LOL, GO BOB!
:o
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
61. Good Choices, Tom.
Graham gets a bad rap. I love this guy.

I hope it's Clark, though.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Graham is solid, but for those quirky journals...STILL, I love the guy.
Clark, however, has much better odds.
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