Help me! Do you remember this Hillary moment from 2004?

[Erin Elizabeth]

During the 2004 Democratic convention, John Kerry had just given his big keynote speech, accepting the nomination of the party. The cameras panned over to Hillary and Chelsea and they had a bottle of champagne and two champagne flutes. I remember thinking that was odd and wishing they hadn't done that, since the general election was on, and it was going to make Democrats look snotty.

The network voiceover guys theorized at the time that maybe she was toasting the fact that if Kerry didn't win, that would be her up there accepting the nom in 2008. Both she and Chelsea looked like the cat that swallowed the canary.

It was a weird moment and I even remember seeing a thread or two about it here. Does anyone remember that? My deal is, I would have thought there'd be pics online and I can't find any.

[Mooney]

1. I remember that vividly.

It was creepy shit then and it's creepier now.

[Erin Elizabeth]

2. YES! Thank you!

Yeah, I remember sitting on my living room couch and actually cringing at that. It also seemed odd. What were they toasting? At the time, I was naive enough to think they were just really super happy for John Kerry, LOL.

[AtomicKitten]

3. It was an Evita moment.

[Up2Late]

4. Oh PLEASE! Now if a Democrat drinks Champagne we are being "Snotty"?!?

Get real. Btw, you forgot to make a nasty comment about my French relatives too, in your post, get with the program.:mad:

[sniffa]

8. Your French relatives are racaille

My French relatives are superieur.

[Erin Elizabeth]

15. You must be looking to take offense.

The general election was on. I knew Republicans would do or use ANYTHING to paint Democrats as being snotty and I knew that image of Hillary and Chelsea drinking out of champagne flutes at the convention would be like gold to them. I wanted to WIN. So of course I cringed and thought it was sort of tone deaf of them to do that.

[msongs]

5. or they could've just been having some champagne together as mom & daughter nt

[Erin Elizabeth]

19. When you are as public of a figure as she is

and you are at your party's national convention, EVERYTHING you do is fodder, no matter how simple or innocent the motivation, unfortunately.

[cbayer]

6. Right. She was toasting because she thought John Kerry would lose.

And her evil daughter was in on the game.

Sometimes I just don't know what to think about some people here.

[JohnnyLib2]

7. "Sometimes I just don't know what to think about some people here.

LOL. I do! :tinfoilhat:

[cbayer]

10. Yeah or this

[Erin Elizabeth]

16. I'm not the one who said that.

The network commentator voice-overed that. If you read my post carefully, you'd see that.

[cbayer]

21. I do see that and did not mean to attribute it to you.

On the other hand, it sure looks like you are fishing for something to substantiate that thought.

[Erin Elizabeth]

22. No, I was discussing the whole "elitist" meme

with a friend in real life who is a sort-of Hillary supporter. We were being very friendly in our discussion, not really debating. And I remembered that moment and tried and tried to find a pic of it and couldn't. I wanted to back up what I said with an actual pic so she wouldn't think I was just making that up, LOL!

[cbayer]

26. The convention, if not contentious, is just a big party for the Democrats.

I don't think it is elitist to drink a flute of champagne at a celebration. Most of us thought he would win and celebrated the convention in much the same way.

[DesertFlower]

9. i don't remember seeing it,

but it is interesting.

i'll tell you seeing her toss down shots really turned me off. i don't want to see my president do that.

why is she trying to act like a man?

[Maddy McCall]

11. You don't know women who do shots?

You must have not been in a bar the past 50 years.

Good god.

[Mooney]

13. The women I know who do shots

are the same as the men I know who do shots --- they're depressing alcoholics.

[Maddy McCall]

23. Wow....sad that you only know alcoholics who drink.

:(

[Mooney]

27. I don't know them any more.

You can only put up with that type of shit for so long.

[tammywammy]

29. Um wow

I'm a woman. I've done many a shots with friends. I'm not an alcoholic.

[Mooney]

47. And I don't know you.

So what we each said is true.

[Arkansas Granny]

50. Wow! I do shots on occasion, but I didn't realize that made me a depressing alcoholic.

I learn something new every day.

[DesertFlower]

20. i haven't been in a bar since 1970 when i was

a bartender. never saw a woman toss down shots like that. i saw a few men do it.

[tammywammy]

30. Well, most of the bars I've been too there are plenty of people

of both genders doing shots. Including myself, I've done plenty of shots with friends.

[DesertFlower]

good for you.

if i did that i would :puke:. i'm not kidding, i would.

[tammywammy]

35. Well that's you

Don't be so judgmental about people that do/have done shots.

[Stephanie]

55. I don't know civilized adult women - or men - who do shots.

That is for college students. It was stupid.

[Mooney]

12. Watching her toss down shots

was actually the first thing she's done this entire campaign that I've found endearing.

[cbayer]

24. I am a woman who has a shot now and then.

I am not trying to act like a man.

[DesertFlower]

25. but hillary was. nt

[cbayer]

28. She's campaigning for goodness sake.

Should she have ordered a nice cup of tea and gotten out her knitting needles while in a bar?

She's not an alcoholic. She's not trying to act like a man.

As a woman who has been in politics, I need to tell you that there is no escape from this gordian knot. You are either too feminine or too masculine or trying to be something you are not.

Powerful women are magnets for this kind of scrutiny.

[DesertFlower]

31. she could have asked for a mixed drink

or a glass of wine. even a "scotch on the rocks" would have been better.

[tammywammy]

34. A mixed drink or a glass of wine

Because that's what "women" drink? :crazy:

[DesertFlower]

36. i'm a woman and i don't drink any alcohol.

flame away. i don't like the way it tastes and i don't like the way it makes me feel.

[tammywammy]

38. I don't care if you drink or don't drink

But taking a shot of something isn't trying to "act" like a man.

[DesertFlower]

40. you have your opinion

and i have mine.

[cbayer]

37. Cosmos!

The women's shot!

[tammywammy]

44. I like a good dirty vodka martini

[Stephanie]

57. the difference is, that's a sipping drink, not a SHOT

You can nurse a cosmo all night. Shots are for college kids, and drunks.

[Stephanie]

56. because that's what women like her who aren't pretending to be someone they're not drink.

enough with the play-acting.

[Erin Elizabeth]

41. I'll admit, shots were an odd choice, LOL!

I thought it was a bit strange. She didn't need to order white wine or anything. But in that context (wasn't she actually in a bar?) a beer would have been fine. Very middle of the road choice, LOL.

[DesertFlower]

43. a beer would have been fine.

what bothered me was the shot followed by the beer.

[Erin Elizabeth]

45. She shoulda just dropped the shot into the beer.

Isn't that a boilermaker?

Liquor before beer, you're in the clear. She knows the saying, I guess.

[Arkansas Granny]

51. Perhaps you would have preferred that she pass out some homemade cookies or something.

As a woman of Hillary's age, I've done shots in a bar and never once did I do it in order to look or act like a man and I don't believe anyone got the impression that I was trying to look or act like a man.

[anonymous171]

14. Here you go:

[Chiyo-chichi]

17. My.... Howard Dean should NOT wear light blue pantsuits.

eom

[boppers]

32. Howard Dean...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[grantcart]

53. DUzy

[donheld]

59. No wonder he screamed

:D

[Erin Elizabeth]

18. You found it! Thank you!

To those who took offense at my reaction to this---remember at the time (2004) things were bad and getting worse. The economy was getting bad, the war in Iraq was a complete fucking mess. And so when I saw this, I thought "oh great, wonderful, just what we need--THAT image."

I still would feel that way today. Even more so, actually, since the economy is even worse.

[cbayer]

33. You sound sincere and I am inclined to believe you.

If she had a Budweiser, would that have been better? I think you are trying to see something that is not there. If you see it as elitist, so be it. BTW, you can get some pretty decent champagne for less than a lot of 6-packs.

[Erin Elizabeth]

39. No, it seemed strange to be drinking at all.

Shrug. But everyone knows the sort of associations connected to champagne and champagne flutes. There's that phrase about having champagne tastes and a beer pocketbook. And like I said, I just wanted to win and didn't want Republicans to have ANY kind of ammo whatsoever, no matter how small. So I cringed. No biggie. But I remembered it and wanted to find the picture, which someone did.

[cbayer]

46. No problem.

If you have ever been to a convention, you will know that there is a LOT of drinking going on. These are a group of people who have been working very, very hard for their candidates and their party and they are celebrating.

So I am just hoping your were not looking for this to create a hit piece.

:hi:

[Erin Elizabeth]

48. No, no hit piece

(not even completely sure what that is).

:hi:

[Arkansas Granny]

52. They were celebrating. A lot of people celebrate with champagne.

I think we can assume that Chelsea and Hillary weren't brownbagging the champagne and I would imagine that there were other people celebrating in the same way. I don't see this as a big deal at all.

[KittyWampus]

49. awesome Google Fu! I bow to the master

[Stephanie]

58. Wow!

Thanks for that - quite bizarre. Would you post a new thread, please? I'm so amazed by that photo.

[anonymous171]

60. I made a caption thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5585579&mesg_id=5585579

[Obamanaut]

42. So there you have it. Kerry didn't win, and she won't be accepting

the nom in 08.

[grantcart]

54. and the champagne was wasted lol