The Rules Are Changing for Obama

[Tellurian]

The Rules Are Changing for Obama

Saturday, April 19, 2008

Barack Obama seemed puzzled. Angrily puzzled. The apostle of hope seemed flummoxed by the audacity of the question. At the April 16 Philadelphia debate, George Stephanopoulos, longtime aide to Democratic politicians, was asking about his longtime association with Weather Underground bomber William Ayers. The Weather Underground attacked the Pentagon, the Capitol and other public buildings; Ayers was quoted in The New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001, as saying, "I don't regret setting bombs; I feel we didn't do enough."It was at Ayers' house that Obama's state Senate candidacy was launched in 1995; Obama continued to serve on a nonprofit board with Ayers after the Times article appeared.

Did Obama expect that this would never come up in the campaign? He certainly gave that impression. The normally poised candidate looked irritated and weary. "This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English" -- actually, it's education -- "in Chicago, who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense, George."

He compared Ayers to Sen. Tom Coburn, who has advocated the death penalty for abortionists. But of course Coburn has never advocated bombing their houses or clinics. "A guy who lives in my neighborhood." Debates are held not just to learn the details of the candidates' health care plans -- which given the complexity of the issue will probably be considerably altered if they are ever actually put on the table -- but also to learn who the candidates are. And that includes learning about which guys who live in their neighborhood they chose to befriend. About Obama almost all Americans knew next to nothing when he got up on the podium of the 2004 Democratic National Convention and instantly made himself presidential candidate material.(His gracefully written autobiographical "Dreams From My Father" -- we could learn, if we could get through all 464 pages -- is a story not of transcending racial barriers but of developing a black and African identity.)

The presidency is a uniquely personal office, and each incumbent puts his individual stamp on it. Obama's choice to join Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church and his choice to befriend William Ayers were not those most Americans would make, and Hillary Clinton was quick to declare, perhaps opportunistically, they were not choices she would have made. This doesn't mean that Obama is responsible for Wright's outrageous statements or for Ayers' criminal acts (the charges against him were dropped because of government misconduct). But Obama's choices to associate with Wright and Ayers tend to undercut his appealing message -- very appealing after 15 years of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush -- that we must strive to overcome the racial and cultural and ideological divisions which have dominated our politics They are something that voters are entitled to weigh as they make their decisions.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_michael_barone/the_rules_are_changing_for_obama

[rodeodance]

1. Obama had the audaucity to believe these questions were behind him

[Bake]

84. Behind him? Hell, they were never asked until now.

And the Obamans are deeply insulted that their guy has to answer them now!

Bake

[rodeodance]

2. Saddle up Obama

[Eric Condon]

66. Yep - saddle up for the GE and the presidency. nt

[Tellurian]

3. Obama's *smirk* says: "Don't question how I got where I am today!"

It seems all of Obama's closest friends who helped him up the ladder to where he is today were/are either Subversives, Terrorists, Indicted Felons, or Ex-Convicts! Highly recommend reading the OP.

[mac2]

106. The Chicago Tribune supported Obama's run for Senator and

President. It's a Conservative newspaper corporation wno own many things...radio, TV, LA Times, etc. Obama consulted with them regarding Rev. Wright uproar.

I'm supposed to believe he's for change and is different? He's part of the problem. Our present Congress is part of the problem. They let the President walk away with their powers. They fund his illegal war and terrorism propaganda.

[JoFerret]

112. Supercilious

smirk.

[mac2]

4. What about his white ID?

"His gracefully written autobiographical "Dreams From My Father" -- we could learn, if we could get through all 464 pages -- is a story not of transcending racial barriers but of developing a black and African identity.)"

Can he be accepting of his own racial divide?

[Tellurian]

9. Strange...His Mother and Grandmother made the sacrifices to care for him

and ensuring he had the finest education their money could buy at a prestigious Prep School and a Harvard Education. Yet, the father that abandoned him refusing child support and the fatherly guidance a male child so desperately needs. He authors a 400+ page book honoring his father, a father he never knew. In the stranger paradox of Obama's life, threw his mother and grandmother under the bus because they are "typical" white people.

[OzarkDem]

11. Yeah, he has a LOT of issues

which make him very, very unsuitable for the WH.

I hope he can work these things out and his conflict is certainly understandable, but he needs to come to terms with it in a healthy way.

[barb162]

51. Yeah, let him work out his issues but not in the White House.

[hendo]

93. unsuitable?

So you would rather see McCain become president?

[mac2]

15. Also his country which gave him opportunity and freedom.

[mac2]

41. Be thankful there was no "old white male" to blame.

[Catherina]

80. Wrong again. That prestigious prep school was on a scholarship

and even with full cash its tuition is 40% of a silver spoon school like Exeter.

Maybe you could ask Senator Inouye for an electronic copy of the apology letter he had to send to Obama and the school after making a similar Clintonian mistspeak, change a few words around here and there and sign your name to the letter?

Harvard was mostly with heavy student loans that he finally paid off with revenue from his book.

Plesae, get that webmaster at HillaryIs44 to update the Obama smear sheet as these stories come out so you guys won't embarrass yourselves with such misstatements. Inouye personally delivered his letter of apology to Obama for mispeaking about the Hawaiian school. Would that you had such integrity.

I'll also defy you to explain where Obama accused his mother of being a typical white person. He did no such thing. If you knew anything about her, you'd know she was anything but and that testimony came directly from him. Grandmama however was a product of her age where Whites didn't talk to Blacks but he clearly stated, many times, that she was an extraordinary atypical woman. It's quite bizarre how aytpically intelligent people are able to understand his comment in the context he made it in while the people who still cling to that typical behavior are having so much trouble with it :shrug:

[mac2]

90. You don't get scholorships in many countries if you are poor.

You join the slave class.

[Catherina]

114. Maybe in Hillaryland. In the real world prep schools give scholarships to bright kids but poor

If you had an ounce of respect for the truth you would have researched before posting that silliness or, at the very least gone to the schools website to read how it works. It works exactly the same as all US prep schools. Scholarships for the poor but bright.

Punahou maintains a long-standing commitment to provide need-based financial aid. A family's financial status does not influence admission decisions.

Financial aid is available to new and continuing students at all grade levels and is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need. Financial need is determined by taking into account many factors including income, net worth, standard living expenses, family size and educational expenses. Punahou School uses Student and School Service (SSS) for Financial Aid to help determine need.

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=62

As far as his school in Indonesia goes, it was a public school. An ordinary local school that Hillary supporters painted as a madrassa until that lie had no more legs.

[Chulanowa]

116. Because in America, there's still the "one drop" rule

No matter how much Asian, Native American, or European ancestry a person may have, even if it outweighs their African ancestry, they are forever and always considered to be "black."

Funny that the same people who perpetuate this school of thought are the first to raise a stink when some black peron dares embrace the title.

[godai]

5. Written by Michael Barone - US News and World Report

A conservative writer doesn't support Obama. No news there. Obama is neither puzzled, flummoxed, irritated nor weary. He welcomes tough questions but rejects gotcha questions, which this article tries to perpetuate with the same old guilt by association.

News bulletin...it's not working and most voters are rejecting this old style, rovian approach to winning elections.

[Tellurian]

13. The questions the author addresses are accurate and True..

unlike the msm BS you support because it praises, with superfluous nonsense, issues of irrelevance such as, Obama's great oratory skill and crowd attendance.

[godai]

19. and meaningless and rovian n/t

[Tellurian]

23. Prove it's the overused term..."Rovian"

[mac2]

92. At the last "debate" on ABC Obama's speech writer didn't seem to be

present. A speech is one thing a debate is another.

[Saturday]

6. But, but, but....

"It was at Ayers' house that Obama's state Senate candidacy was launched in 1995; Obama continued to serve on a nonprofit board with Ayers after the Times article appeared."

.....Obama said he didn't know him very well. St. Obama wouldn't lie.

[Vinca]

7. And, of course, none of the Clinton scandals will ever be mentioned

by the Republicans. Yep - it'll just be policy positions. John and Cindy, Hillary and Bill will smile and wink and do lunch after the debates. Clouds will open, angels will sing, the swallows will find their way back to Capistrano. Cue the music.

[hell-bent]

16. Didn't the "dough boy" Ken Starr

spend 11 million dollars investigating the Clintons and found nothing but one of the lawyers in the Clinton's law offices was over-billing clients? The Repuke attacks on Hillary will be old news. What would 11 million turn up in BO's closet?

[Vinca]

48. Once again - the felon's list. Not to be confused with the bimbo list.

VARIOUS ARKANSAS:

1) Roger Clinton: Bill Clinton brother; drug trafficking conviction

(Wall Street Journal "The Foster Test" January 14, 1994)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President.

2) Dan Lasater: governor Bill Clinton contributor and state contractor: drug trafficking conviction

(Wall Street Journal "The Foster Test" January 14, 1994)

3) Dan Harmon: Arkansas Seventh Judicial District prosecuting attorney and Bill Clinton friend and political ally: five federal racketeering, extortion, and drug distribution convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Arkansas Justice" June 13, 1997)

4) Bill McCuen: Bill Clinton political ally: former Arkansas Secretary of State; bribery, tax evasion, kickbacks convictions

(Wall Street Journal: Whitewater: "The Prosecution Rests" May 7, 1996)

WHITEWATER:

5) Webster Hubbell: Bill Clinton friend and political ally; Hillary Clinton Rose Law Firm partner: embezzlement; fraud; two felony convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Whither Whitewater?" October 18, 1995)

6) Jim Guy Tucker: fraud; three felony convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Second-Term Stall" February 11, 1997; Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998)

7) William J. Marks Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker business partner; one conspiracy conviction

(Associated Press "Whitewater Defendant Pleads Guilty" August 28, 1997)

8) Jim McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: eighteen felony convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996)
Died in prison March 8, 1998

9) Susan McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend; former wife of Jim McDougal: four felony convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

10) David Hale: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: two felony convictions of conspiracy and mail fraud

(Wall Street Journal "The Arkansas Machine Strikes Back" March 19, 1996)

11) Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker; two felony convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

12) Stephen Smith: former Governor Clinton aide; one conviction

(Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

13) Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent; fraudulent loans

(Wall Steet Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)

14) Robert Palmer: Madison appraiser; one conspiracy felony conviction

(Wall Street Journal "Hale Predicts Hillary Conviction" October 21, 1996)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

15) Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president; embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign; two misdemeanor convictions

(Wall Street Journal "Arkansas Bank Shot" May 4, 1995)

16) John Latham: Madison Bank CEO; bank fraud conviction

(Wall Street Journal "Smoke Without Fire" January 12, 1996)

17) John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker; misdemeanor guilty plea; tax fraud

(Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998)

18) Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count of trying to bribe David Hale; is appealing a ten month prison sentence

(The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998)

19) Charles Matthews: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of bribery, served fourteen months of a sixteen month prison sentence

(The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998)

ESPY:

20) Tyson Foods: guilty plea; $6 million federal court fines and investigative costs

(Washington Post "Tyson Foods Admits Illegal Gifts to Espy" December 30, 1997)

21) Sun-Diamond Growers: $1.5 million fine for illegal campaign contributions to Espy's brother

(Associated Press "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)

22) Richard Douglas: former Sun-Diamond Growers official; several bribery convictions and guilty pleas

(Washington Post "Tyson Foods Admits Illegal Gifts to Espy" December 30, 1997; Associated Press: "Lobbyist Pleads guilty in Espy Case" March 17, 1998)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

23) James H. Lake: Sun-Diamond Growers lobbyist; three convictions regarding illegal campaign contributions to Espy's brother

(Associated Press "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

24) Ron Blackley: Espy's chief of staff: financial fraud conviction; twenty-seven month prison sentence

(Washington Post "Tyson Foods Admits Illegal Gifts to Espy" December 30, 1997; Associated Press: "Judge Sentences Espy Aide to Jail" March 18, 1998)

25) Smith Barney: improper payments to Espy; $1 million-plus fine

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)

26) Crop Growers Corporation: $2 million fine for money laundering to Henry Espy's campaign

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)

27) Brook Keith Mitchell Sr. (with his company Five M Farming Enterprises: four counts) for fraud

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

28) Five M Farming Enterprises (with owner Brook Keith Mitchell: four counts) for fraud

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)

29) John J. Hemmingson, former head of Crop Growers Corporation: three counts relating to illegal campaign contributions to Henry Espy

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

30) Alvarez T. Ferrouillet, Jr., Louisiana lawyer and Henry Espy campaign finance head: ten count conviction

(Associated Press: "A Look at Mike Espy Investigation" August 27, 1997)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

31) Municipal Healthcare Cooperative: Ferrouillet-related company; perjury, bank fraud, money laundering convictions

(Washington Post: "Tyson Foods Admits Illegal Gifts to Espy" December 30, 1997)

32) Ferrouillet & Ferrouillet: Ferrouillet-related company; perjury, bank fraud, money laundering convictions

(Washington Post: "Tyson Foods Admits Illegal Gifts to Espy" December 30, 1997)

CAMPAIGN FINANCE:

33) Michael Brown (Ron Brown's son): money laundering; misdemeanor conviction

(Los Angeles Times, "Ron Brown's Son Pleads Guilty to Illegal Donation" August 29, 1997)

34) Eugene Lum: Clinton/Gore campaign contributor and colleague; felony conviction; money laundering

(Los Angeles Times, "First Fund-Raising Sentences Meted Out" September 10, 1997)

35) Nora Lum: Clinton/Gore campaign contributor and colleague; felony conviction; money laundering

(Los Angeles Times, "First Fund-Raising Sentences Meted Out" September 10, 1997)

36) Johnny Chung: Clinton/Gore campaign contributor and colleague; many visits to Clinton White House and Oval Office with mainland Chinese associates; several illegal campaign contributions, money laundering, tax fraud, and bank fraud guilty pleas

(Associated Press: "Democrat Fund-Raiser Pleads Guilty" March 17, 1998)

37) Roger Tamraz: Clinton/Gore campaign contributor and colleague; many visits to Clinton White House and Oval Office; fugitive from Lebanon embezzlement convictions; target of French government financial investigation; BCCI connections

(The Wall Street Journal: "Integrity of the Institutions" March 20, 1997, et. al.)
CISNEROS:

38) Linda Jones: Henry Cisneros mistress; conspiracy, bank fraud, money laundering, and obstruction of justice federal felony guilty pleas; sentenced to three and one-half years in prison

(Associated Press: "Cisneros Ex-Mistress Sentenced" March 25, 1998)
Pardon Granted January 2001 by Bill Clinton last hours as President

39) Patsy Jo Wooten: Linda Jones sister; one conspiracy guilty plea (Associated Press: "Cisneros Ex-Mistress Sentenced" March 25, 1998)


40) Allen Wooten: Linda Jones brother-in-law; one conspiracy guilty plea

(Associated Press: "Cisneros Ex-Mistress Sentenced" March 25, 1998)

Of course, what are the chances the Republicans will play the guilt-by-association game with Clinton? They just adore her, you know, and wouldn't want to be offensive. I'm sure the Republican campaign would be entirely positive as it pertains to Hillary and just stick to the issues.:sarcasm:

[Tellurian]

63. Republican have nothing to brag about..

The list of child molesters in the House is mind boggling and the list of convicted felons from the Congress is mind boggling as well. I'll take my chances with known winners of elections. You can stick with the known losers, the DNC.. I prefer a winning team.

[krkaufman]

121. 70 million, actually

And I expect there's plenty of fertile new ground for the Right Wing attack machine to plow, given the Clintons meteoric financial gains since Bill left office -- and starting with his final days in office, including his controversial pardons.

[Tellurian]

17. They probably will.. the difference is they're out in the open..

and in spite of it all, Hillary is beating Obama!

The sh*t has yet to Hit the proverbial Fan bringing forth the gravity of Obama's external entanglements!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OzarkDem]

8. I can't figure Obama out

He hangs with 60's radicals, the radical preacher guy who hates the US, but he does the bidding of corporate America.

:crazy:

Is he just willing to do or say anything to get elected? Is that it? The man seems to have no moral compass whatsoever.

[mac2]

37. He's a candidate for office from that church.

The churches are rich today running their own candidates. Where does the money come from for his campaign? From individuals...all church members and those who consider him Afro-American.

Churches today are profit centers with Faith Based Funding and giving the CEO (minister) huge homes and retirement packages. They are corporate organizations...tax exempt profit centers.

[rodeodance]

108. yes, he is willing to say or do anything to win

[Yael]

10. Michael Barone?

Of Fox News?

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

12. Getting slimed by the right wing media and HIllary (DINO) NY

is not changing the rules. When Obama is President, THEN we will see a change in the rules.

[Teaser]

14. Michael Barone?

low standards much?

[Tellurian]

20. Truth Much?

it's a pisser, ain't it?

[hell-bent]

21. Well, isn't Barone

a step up from the "toe-sucking" Dick Morris who is quoted quite frequently here by the Obamatrons?

[Tellurian]

25. Barone is a writer..

Dick Morris is an opportunistic scumbag...

[krkaufman]

120. At least Dick Morris used to work FOR the Clintons ...

... so some tenuous case could be made that his opinion comes from first-hand experience (though I think he's an ass). But the OPer might as well be posting from Limbaugh, Hannity or O'Reilly, at this point.

[justgamma]

18. Obama was 8 when this happened?

I take it this wasn't in the news in 1995. Do you think Obama remembered what this guy did. I doubt if he ran a background check on him. I doubt if the guy ever talked about it. I wonder when Obama found out about him.

[Tellurian]

26. Does that mean Obama doesn't know who he's dealing with most of the time..

Knowing who you're dealing with is ONE of the FIRST Rules of Life!

Why would I even consider someone as presidential material if they are ignorant of the basic tenets' of Life?

[barb162]

53. Ayers said in 2001 there wasn't enough bombing. Obama was 40 yrs. old then.

It was published in major newspapers.

[boppers]

124. Wasn't enough bombing... for what?

To do..... what?

Do you know?

[EV_Ares]

22. The only people that are buying this bs spin are Hillary supporters

and the right wing who are doing what they can to keep him from getting the democratic nomination along with Hillary's help. It is hilarious some of Hillary's supporters even mentioning his being on a board with Ayers and do you all remember how they tried to defuse her serving on the Wal-Mart board voting against the workers during her tenure. Remember, there was no connection to Wal-Mart, she only served on the board.

The Ayers and Reverend Wright will stay a non-issue except with these people and if it wasn't this, it would be his class work in the first grade. Didn't Hillary try something like that too once?

[Tellurian]

24. If they can keep Obama from getting the nom.. what would they do in the ge?

you did take basic algebra?

[EV_Ares]

27. Typical Hillary supporter response, yes I did but evidently you don't

read well. Where did I say they "would" be able to keep him from getting the nomination? Anyone with a little intellect would understand they couldn't, I just said they & Hillary were doing what they could in their unison smearing swift-boat tactics to try and keep him from getting the nomination. Understand now.

Usually, unlike yourself, I just reply to a poster & try to refrain from making some remark such as can't read or math skills. However, I understand us Obama supporters have more to discuss on the issues affecting Americans and do not have to lower ourselves to personal attacks such as yourself but sometimes you do manage to bring on those kind of responses from us.

[Tellurian]

30. Hillary hasn't done any swiftboating..

provide an an example, I will debunk it for you. We need to agree on a set of facts before having a meaningful conversation..agreed?

[EV_Ares]

34. For one the stuff on Wright, Obama's association with Ayers is nothing

more than attempts by her and the right wing to swift-boat aomething that isn't along with all of her other feeble attempts on various non-truth bs. I think everyone knows where she has been making her feeble attempts at swift-boating Barack. Just keep something in the press the best you can and hope it sticks somewhere. So far, they have been unsuccessful but they try.

"It's breathtaking to me how juvenile the Clinton campaign is. There is a "take-my-ball-and-go-home" attitude in almost all of the rhetoric. Anger, sarcasm, chest pounding and foot stomping -- this is a president? No, this is a toddler having a temper tantrum. This is someone in desperate need of a time-out.

And the more I hear the "Vote for me because I will beat the Republicans" refrain that climaxes every Clinton stump speech, the more I find it creepy and disturbing. Sorry, but the "Republicans" are half of the country. How often have we been told in the last several elections that the country is painfully divided politically.

I don't want to sound too Kumbaya about this, but we shouldn't be voting for someone because they will "beat" half our country into submission. We need a leader who will enlist the other half, who will invite them, who will welcome them and who will lead a nation into an uncertain future.

What we don't need is a tone deaf, angry, sarcastic, brow-beating divider who would rather scorch the ground she lives on rather than imagine any possibility that she might not be the landlord. That kind of behavior represents a past we would all like to step away from, not a future any of us should embrace or even accept."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-seitzman/hillary-if-i-cant-have-_b_89846.html

[Tellurian]

46. Your examples do not rise to the definition of "swiftboating"

apparently, you do not know know or understand what the definition of swiftboating is:

SWIFTBOATING:

"Swiftboating is American political jargon that is used (primarily) as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating

The reference in the OP: "It was at Ayers' house that Obama's state Senate candidacy was launched in 1995; Obama continued to serve on a nonprofit board with Ayers after the Times article appeared." Is all TRUE

As well as the information released about Obama's association with Rev Wright. Where Obama soaked up every bit of racist HATE Rev Wright pontificated week in and week out. If it's ALL True, it's not a smear or considered "swiftboating"..

The difference is this, in the instance of John Kerry, the swiftboaters said his military service record was a LIE! That is the essence of swiftboating. It can't be any simpler than that, understanding where you are mistaken using erroneous terminology in your post.

[EV_Ares]

50. And we are all so surprised you would think that. It is what it is.

And evidently you do not understand how swift-boating works. Just like Kerry, you take an association, an event and you turn it into something that it is not as Hillary and the right-wing are doing with Obama with Wright and Ayers. Nobody denies, he is his pastor, nobody denies that Obama knew Ayers as an associate on a board, nobody denies Ayers did not do something when Barack was 8 years old.

The facts: Obama met with former Weather Underground radical Ayers and his wife, former 60's SDS leader Bernardine Dohrn, at a 1995 Chicago meeting. From 1999-2002, Obama served on the board of a charity organization with Ayers that gave out a couple of grants. Now, I knew these Weathermen folks back in the 60's, and they were quite unsavory then. There were plenty of us who were in SDS at that time who thought the Weathermen were despicable. And, frankly, I have no particular affection for them now. I found Ayers' memoir, published in 2001, to be execrable.

But by the time Obama met them in the 90's, they had cleared their violent past with the criminal justice system, they had served their punishment, gone back to school and by then become legitimate and even respected educators, and players in Chicago liberal politics.

When Ayers and Dohrn were running amuck advocating violent revolution, Obama was literally eight years old.

However, I really am getting the idea that this is too complex for you to understand or want to understand. Most people do understand fortunately.

[Tellurian]

60. Try again...your rants are a meaningless repetition of the misunderstandings of facts.

[EV_Ares]

61. Ah, good, I see you have finally realized you can't back your comment(s) up, you are

the one with rants. Anybody with any intelligence reading the post can see it is not a rant unlike yours.

"rant" - To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave.

"And evidently you do not understand how swift-boating works. Just like Kerry, you take an association, an event and you turn it into something that it is not as Hillary and the right-wing are doing with Obama with Wright and Ayers. Nobody denies, he is his pastor, nobody denies that Obama knew Ayers as an associate on a board, nobody denies Ayers did not do something when Barack was 8 years old.

The facts: Obama met with former Weather Underground radical Ayers and his wife, former 60's SDS leader Bernardine Dohrn, at a 1995 Chicago meeting. From 1999-2002, Obama served on the board of a charity organization with Ayers that gave out a couple of grants. Now, I knew these Weathermen folks back in the 60's, and they were quite unsavory then. There were plenty of us who were in SDS at that time who thought the Weathermen were despicable. And, frankly, I have no particular affection for them now. I found Ayers' memoir, published in 2001, to be execrable.

But by the time Obama met them in the 90's, they had cleared their violent past with the criminal justice system, they had served their punishment, gone back to school and by then become legitimate and even respected educators, and players in Chicago liberal politics.

When Ayers and Dohrn were running amuck advocating violent revolution, Obama was literally eight years old.

However, I really am getting the idea that this is too complex for you to understand or want to understand. Most people do understand fortunately."

Sorry that is not a rant, unlike yours. LOL.

Now re-read your post since evidently you were unable to counter other than make your rant. Have to go to the gym now, have a good day and try harder next time or at least get some facts. That actually gets more respect and credibility rather than when you cannot support your facts, you try to deride the poster with comments about their understanding something, writing skills, etc. Just the facts man.

[Tellurian]

71. Typical Obama follower..Declaring victory before accepting summary defeat..

some use going to the gym as their 1,899,999th excuse...any excuse is a plausible excuse, except facing the facts of life..

[EV_Ares]

81. LOL, right, sorry about going to the gym and as this post shows as your

others, no explanations necessary. As the other poster said, your credibility is lacking on this board as you have not supported anything or any facts other than your posts as they show.

Very, very laughable.

[Tellurian]

98. Your erstwhile comments are for a plebeian audience..

the coffee clatch crowd. Where you can point to Huffpro as proof.

The dissemination of facts and thoughtful conclusions are not innate to your profile.

[mac2]

39. On this web site they have swiftboated Hillary's sex by

calling her a bitch, witch, manipulative, etc.

[EV_Ares]

42. Who, where, links or is it just you saying it, eom.

[mac2]

44. Oh please you want me to search the whole site?

Just look yourself. It's there. I'm not voting for Hillary it's just an observation regarding her sex.

[EV_Ares]

47. No, don't have the time to look up every alleged incident here, Just assumed

since you made the allegation, you had the link or info where and when it occurred.

Saying something like that is easy if you don't have to support it.

[barb162]

56. You can search that yourself; there's probably hundreds of threads.

[EV_Ares]

57. And again, I don't have to do your work for you, evidently you don't even

know or there really aren't any.

[barb162]

67. Look it up youself

If you haven't seen posts calling Hillary some really pejorative names as the other poster mentioned, SEARCH it. There's plenty here.

[EV_Ares]

82. You are a laugh, again as all of your posts on here, you only make comments,

no support, no backup, no links, so they stand as they are pure garbage. Try something credible.

I didn't make the allegations, I support mine, where are yours and I am not going to get into your juvenile, little child back and forth nonsense.

[barb162]

58. I have seen those words against her hundreds and hundreds of times

The misogyny around here has really gotten nauseating.

[mac2]

110. Kinda off subject but check this out barb.

Misogyny on TV.

http://libercratic.government.directnic.com/Journal/culture/TV.htm

I've always hated Lifetime because the women are always victims...at least 90% of the time. Their husbands leave them. They are stalked and murdered. They fall running from a male who is trying to murder them,etc. They scream a lot. Only once or twice did I see a competent woman catch her attacker. If any woman does kill a man it's a teenager. Lifetime, I understand has Pat Robertson as one of their owners. It used to be good BC RW Robertson.

[hendo]

101. sure

HRC hasn't done any direct swiftboating, but that's the same thing as saying that Bush didn't directly do it to Kerry. They may not have had a direct hand in it, but thier supporters sure do.

[mac2]

111. ABC reported this Obama quote regarding Hillary

"You know over the last several weeks since she fell behind, she's resorted to what's called 'kitchen sink' strategies," Obama said, per ABC News' Sunlen Miller. "She's got the kitchen sink flying, and the china flying, and the, you know, the buffet is coming at me."

Is this sexist or not? Implying she's just a house wife running against him.

[hendo]

115. apparently you havent heard the saying

"everythign but the kitchen sink". There is nothing sexist about it by the way, although you are welcome to read whatever you want into it.

[BlooInBloo]

73. It's hard to win elections preaching only to the already-converted.

[undeterred]

28. When I was 8 I called a boy named Tom a big ape.

[Kool Kitty]

123. Well, that does it.

No Presidency for you. ;)

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Well, I'm Convinced

That Tellurian will post anything - literally anything - that seems remotely anti-Obama, regardless of what he thinks will happen to his/her own credibility by doing so.

Allow me to quote a fellow DUer: "Michael Barone?"

[Tellurian]

31. I am convinced..

There isn't an Obama supporter on this forum that can address and debunk (if not true) an unfavorable OP posted about Obama.

[Maribelle]

35. And not only can many not debunk issues - - their game is to trash any positive thread about Hillary

And not only trash positive threads, but also attempt to trash each and every Hillary supporter daring to post an OP that discusses issues.

Fortunately, there are good Obama supporters left that do not play these games.

[EV_Ares]

38. I am convinced that you just keep yourself in the dark about what you are

afraid of. I am convinced someone such as yourself who stays so narrow-minded would never move away from McCain or Hillary no matter what information was out there. Not much point in debating with someone such as yourself. The latest poll shows 28 to 30% of Hillary supporters will go with McCain if she doesn't get the nomination. That pretty much shows you are not democrats or care about what is best for the country but only as Hillary, her power and scorch the earth tactics.


If McCain vs. Obama, 28% of Clinton Backers Go for McCain

As would be expected, almost all Democratic voters who say they support Obama for their party's nomination also say they would vote for him in a general election matchup against McCain. But only 59% of Democratic voters who support Clinton say they would vote for Obama against McCain, while 28% say they would vote for the Republican McCain. This suggests that some Clinton supporters are so strongly opposed to Obama (or so loyal to Clinton) that they would go so far as to vote for the "other" party's candidate next November if Obama is the Democratic nominee.

Link: http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx

[Tellurian]

59. Not much point debating with someone such as your self

a pseudo-intellectual. Who's anorexic analogies consist of thoughts written by other individuals and regurgitated once more by you, and bolstered by flawed, puerile reasoning. It is a fact of life, the lack of understanding the definitions of words will always lead you to erroneous conclusions..

[DrFunkenstein]

45. Debunk What? I Agree With Much of Rev. Wright's Positions and The Ayers Connection Is Tenuous

At best. Having listened to Wright's full "chicken coming home to roost" sermon, there is little difference from my own feelings on the issue, especially at that emotional time. The Weather Underground connection is just plain silly - and demeaning of you to even approach it as a legitimate issue.

Bill Clinton pardoned a handful of those guys, along with Marc Rich, whose wife has donated tens of thousands to Hillary Clinton's campaigns and the Clinton library.

Meanwhile, you have Hillary Clinton extremely tight over many years with Mark Penn, who represents the biggest scumbags on the planet in "crisis management", from Ahmed Chalabi and Blackwater to Philip Morris and every other major corporation charged with killing people through their products.

[Malidictus Maximus]

68. You may agree with what Wright said

But that comment, the constant refrain, is going to HURT bad in the GE (I will vote for EITHER Obama or Hillary in the GE), but IMHO Obama should vehemently disavow Wright; he has the right to preach what he will but most of the people I know (yes, horrors, white middle class folks- shocking I tell you) consider what wright said to be "hate speech" ( a team I loathe).

I don't pretend that I have much, if any insight into the problems and practices of 'inner city' folks, but I would wager money that there are huge chunks of the population that are much quite repulsed by those comments.
Just my .02.

The sad thing is that if Hillary had just stayed true to attacking McCain and the Republicans, and been her real self rather than overly, and poorly managed, she would probably have done herself much more good. If she'd been 'above' Obama and slamming McCain on his ties to the president and war she'd still have all the people who support her now and quite a few who have been unhappy with the campaign she has run, although I could easily be wrong.

[Tellurian]

102. You HATE AMERICA? You are a white racist? You believe the gov infected AAs with Aids?

wow!

[Quixote1818]

32. This type of post is why Hillary is losing. Please keep it up! nt

[Maribelle]

36. If the op said Hillary is wearing a diamond necklace today, you would say the same thing.

[Quixote1818]

65. Wrong, I have stood up for Hillary on stupid topics. I stood up for her

on the MLK Jr. BS that was posted a while back. Just one example.

[barb162]

49. Hillary's up a point over Obama nationwide. Hillary is WINNING.

[Jennicut]

62. It takes delegates to win, remember? Where will she get them all , the magic delegate tree?

She can't "win" with a one point Gallup poll that is in the margin of error. She needs cold hard delegates. If not that, she needs superdelegates. The delegate math works out like this, she needs to win by at least 60 to 40 to overtake Obama and get the nomination. 60/40 in every remaining contest. Actually, it vcould even be more than that. Some people say she needs 70/30. If not, she needs to take it to the convention and get the superdelegates to vote oeverwhelmingly for her. But, and this is a pesky little fact, some superdelegates are switching from Hillary to Obama. This has happened a couple of times now. So, in conclusion Hill can win Pennslyvania and still come out NOT winning. Got it? Good. Now go seek out Chuck Todd some time and learn a few things about how the Democratic Primaries work, kay? Thanks.

[barb162]

72. And who says super delegates won't switch back to her. You?

Go back to your little drawing board.

[Quixote1818]

64. Only in one poll. She is behind in most other National Polls and behind by 20 in one. nt

[barb162]

75. Yeah the one where she's up 1% and he's up 19% wre taken on the same days

One is wrong. I think the one where he's up so many points well outside any of the other polls is wrong.

[Quixote1818]

79. Your forgot Rasmussen where she is down. nt

[Quixote1818]

85. Hey barb, Obama is back up again in Gallup

:rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3275788

[Maribelle]

33. And this morning on Meet the Press, Russert grills Axlerod on the same issues as the debate.

I was shocked, shocked I tell ya, that Russert would turn on poor widdle Obama this way.

[mac2]

43. They built him up to tear him down. DA!

[barb162]

52. The photo showing his dismissive arrogance says a lot about Obama

Who needs him?

[bridgit]

55. The flared nostrils of professional disdain...

you're right, who needs him

[Bensthename]

54. Congratulations on another "Gotcha"..

It is sad that the fate of America has now turned into a sporting event.

[Tellurian]

69. It's always been a bloodsport..

not for the faint of heart.

[Bensthename]

70. True, and look what we got from the last 2 elections because of it.

[Tellurian]

76. It is what it is..

no more than you can change the way babies are born. The only difference is the "players". Some are stronger than the previous contestants.

[BlooInBloo]

78. The perfect expression of pessimism.

[Tellurian]

94. It's called "reality" in my world.

[BlooInBloo]

74. There are a few people, I hear, who think it can be better - that WE can be better...

... and then there are people who don't believe this.

The fundamental difference between the Clinton and Obama candidacies.

[Tellurian]

77. Good Point...The clean, ethical campaign announced at Obama's declaration

has gone by the wayside long ago.. Obama himself has been the most obvious spurious example of hypocrisy running a counterfeit campaign.

[EV_Ares]

83. Hypocrisy it does run with Hillary:

How about the facts with Hillary's own association with 60's radicals. In the summer of 1969, when Hillary was just entering Yale Law School, she went to work for the foremost radical law firm in, yes, Berkeley. Carl Bernstein recounts the episode in his Hillary biography of last year titled "A Woman in Charge."

This is what Bernstein told interviewer Jon Wiener last summer:


"That summer she went to work at the most important radical law firm in America at that point: Treuhaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland. They defended the Panthers. Two of their partners were members of the Communist Party--including Bob Treuhaft, who was married to Jessica Mitford. I talked to Bob Treuhaft not long before he died, and he said he was certain that Hillary came there because she subscribed to some of the kind of law they practiced and the kind of clients they defended. In her so-called autobiography, "Living History," she put in a couple of sentences about living in Berkeley with Bill that summer and working at that law firm, but she makes it sound like their work focused on postal rate increases. There's not a word about radicals."

Hey, some association and she was older than 8 years old.

[Tellurian]

87. My God you are primative!

[EV_Ares]

88. LOL, and again, love it as they say, when you have nothing for a comeback, you

can only throw out insults, attack the poster. It is all there in print for you, all out in the open. Also, your use of words are comical "primitive"?

Love it great comeback.

Here is another one for you.

'Vast right-wing conspiracy' leader's paper backs Clinton

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/04/20/1442102-vast-right-wing-conspiracy-leaders-paper-backs-clinton

[Tellurian]

95. Go back to your gym.. exercise is good for frustrated posters..

[EV_Ares]

109. Ah remember the correct defination of rant. Appears it still is all you

can do is insult or your feeble attempt to insult instead of constructive info. You certainly hold up to your reputation of no substance only attack posters who aren't Hillary supporters. Actually, I feel sorry for you. Do you have something against people who go to the gym as well. It seems that is a fixation also. Actually, a little pathetic.

Really, I am sorry you were unable to come back with any kind of an intelligent support of Hillary but that is not our fault on this board is it.

[mac2]

91. We can do better and we deserve better. We certainly pay for it.

We deserve someone who enforces the Constitution and rule of law. Don't see anyone doing that now.

[Tellurian]

100. It's a shame Obama was unable to hold to his original declaration..

of a clean campaign. I don't believe he is able to thrive in an honest and just culture.

[oasis]

86. That pic of Obama tells me all I need to know about the guy. (eom)

[anonymous171]

96. How about this one:

[PinkTiger]

89. Kick

:kick:

[Radical Activist]

97. I guess we know who the real liberal in the race is.

I bet Hillary didn't have any friends in the WU in the 70's.

[shayes51]

99. That picture speaks a thousand words about

why I am not an Obama supporter.

[Blue-Jay]

103. That statement speaks fourteen words about

why you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[PurityOfEssence]

107. While that one does a wonderful job of reinforcing a stereotype.

How nice of you to deign to grace an inferior with your disdain; the stench of elitism pervades.

Funny, I thought that progressives, populists and liberals were supposed to be nurturing souls to those less fortunately blessed. Hmmm...just another misconception, I guess, like the one that had me always presuming that those who try to crush opponents by insulting their mental capacity was more a proof of the insulter's inferiority than the insultee's...

Please buck up and tolerate the less fortunately circuited, won't you? You must be used to that by now.

[shayes51]

113. Thank you for your kindness.

[anonymous171]

126. ORLY?

[Auntie Bush]

104. That's my mental pictures of Obama whenever I think about him..

Captures the essence of him perfectly. Maybe the kind that look down on the biter folks in PA...the ones he wants to vote for him. the epitome of good judgment. not!

[Blue-Jay]

105. I hate biters.

They bite.

[Tellurian]

117. I imagine he's had a watcher on guard to catch him when he exhibits the "arrogant" sneer !

[anonymous171]

119. Arrogant?

[krkaufman]

118. Oh, for f**k's sake... Michael Barone? That's who you're posting?

And don't even have the courage to properly credit the editorial, per DU rules, to warn of a Right Wing source? "Rasmussen Reports" isn't the source any more than Yahoo! is a source.

Sheesh. The Clinton camp is going full Ronnie, I see.

[boppers]

122. How mant different times do we have to see the same screed?

No. New. Content.

...and echoing crap repeatedly doesn't turn it into gold.

[TLM]

125. So clearly we need to start asking Hillary about accusations about BIll

Hillary is married to a man who has been accused of sexual assault, rape, and sexual harassment in the workplace. In fact her husband pardoned two members of the WU who had murdered 3 people. And she wasn't 8 years old when Bill was accused of doing these things.

Perhaps it was these horrible sins that drove them to consult with Pastor Wright....

[barack the house]

127. How did that Rev Wright scandal go. Oh yeah I reacall.