To say that Obama will fail is like saying...

[ClassWarrior]

...that WE will fail. Because Barack Obama is only half of his Presidential equation. WE are the other half.

Look at how his campaign has empowered the grassroots. If you bother to look, you'll find countless stories of the lowliest volunteers having input and responsibilities at the highest level of the campaign.

The best leaders empower their followers. That's the crux of democracy itself, after all.

CUNY Professor Frances Fox Piven on a recent Democracy Now!:

You know, in 1932, FDR didn’t run with a good program; he ran with the same program the Democrats had run with in 1924 and 1928, and that wasn’t a good program. But nevertheless, his rhetoric encouraged people who were suffering as a result of the Depression—working people, the unemployed—and helped to fuel the movements, which then forced FDR to support initiatives which he otherwise would not have supported, including the right to organize...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/6/super_tuesday_roundtable_with_bill_fletcher

NGU.

[MethuenProgressive]

1. Obama will fail us.

If we fuck up and nominate him, McCain will beat him like a rented mule.

[democracy1st]

2. why do you say that

with everything you know about what the republicans have done to this country,why would you say that.

[ClassWarrior]

42. One word.

Begins with the letter T. Ends with the letter L.

NGU.

[Sweet Pea]

3. YES!!!

Finally, someone talking sense here!

Obama is *NOT* the Saviour you all think he is! Way way way way too many negatives not to mention naive!! You'll be a hurtin' unit come Nov if he's the nominee.

[ClassWarrior]

6. You sound kind of bitter.

Could we please have a reasonable discussion among allies instead of a mud fight?

NGU.

[shayes51]

9. correct

[TheWraith]

16. Oh please.

Too many negatives? You mean somebody who has "dishonest and untrustworthy" numbers in the 30% range is worse off than somebody with them in the 60s? Or do you mean that somebody who has no major scandals has more baggage than somebody who has a 15-year history of constant scandal and negativity, somebody who 50% of the American public says they absolutely will not vote for?

[ClassWarrior]

32. .

[roguevalley]

24. you of course haven't looked at McCain. I could beat him. Dream on.

[dchill]

30. "Way way way way too many negatives..."

Now who does that really describe?

on edit: Sorry, I thought you said, "Way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way too many negatives..."

Never mind.

[Sweet Pea]

33. All of you.....

have made crap-all of an argument against my comments.

Which just goes to show - Obama is an empty suit full of nothing but naivety and a one-trick-ponym, which is "Change".

Which ain't gonna make the grade come November.

Now you can keep on sitting there in your stewage, mumbling "O-bam-a!" over and over again and chanting "Change!" every once in a while for a change of pace, but come Sept, Oct and Nov, the Repus are gonna take Rev Wright and Resko and Ayers and Michelle and Obama himself, and take their printed and recorded words and deeds and hand you a defeat for the ages.

[ClassWarrior]

34. Yes, your argument was so substansive.

And what makes you think the Rape-Publicans are going to keep their hands off the woman they most love to hate? Because of her smooch-fest with Richard Mellon Sciafe?

NGU.

[intaglio]

37. Shame you couldn't have matched the sense

Are you visitng from hillaryclintonforum.net? If so we know that HILLARY is the one with the big negatives - but don't let facts stand in your way

[ClassWarrior]

4. Why the lack of self-confidence?

We Progressives are right. Progressive values are the BEST American values. You should have more confidence in your position.

NGU.

[Mags]

36. you don't seem so confident in BO, you folk post a poll every so

many hours to see if everybody will vote for him.

[ClassWarrior]

38. Huh? This is the first thread I've posted in days.

:shrug:

NGU.

[rock]

5. Either Democratic contender will easily defeat McCain

The Rep Party is no longer a viable party in a democracy and the vast majority of the voters know it.

[QC]

7. But...but...but....WE are the ones we have been waiting for! n/t

[ClassWarrior]

17. That was JRE's method too, wasn't it?

True leaders empower their followers.

NGU.

[QC]

18. True leaders also have a plan, some sense of what to do on gaining power.

Leadership requires more than dispensing platitudes, even flattering ones.

[ClassWarrior]

27. And your point is?...

:shrug:

NGU.

[QC]

28. My point is that all we have seen from Obama is new-agey platitudes

and vague fluffy bunny talk of unity and change and holding hands with the Republicans.

Sorry, but I do not want unity with Grover Norquist and his kind, and I do not look to politicians for spiritual advice--that's why I have a priest.

I want a politician to do something about things like the growing class divide in this country and the cruelty of the medical industrial complex. Unfortunately, neither of the two corporate handmaidens we have in the campaign will do anything about issues like those.

[ClassWarrior]

31. No plan? Look at his web site.

Grover Norquist? I can provide you a link to Hilly's love-fest with Richard Mellon Sciafe. Can you provide me with a link to anything reliable that remotely resembles your wild-eyed allegation?

And how is lumping in voters who were deceived by Rape-Publicans with corporatist scum like Norquist going to "heal the class divide?" I agree that we didn't end up with the two best choices, but at least Obama represents an opportunity for Progressives.

NGU.

[GoldieAZ49]

11. agree

as a former Obama supporter.

[Nedsdag]

25. I see by your avatar, if Obama is the nominee,

you will vote for your home senator, right?

Such negativity!

[joeprogressive]

12. Will you be voting for Obama if he wins the nomination? n/t

[joeprogressive]

13. self delete posted twice

[ClassWarrior]

44. .

[RazBerryBeret]

15. yes, it would be a fuck up to nominate him...

since the only way we can win the election is by a LARGE margin and in order to do that we need to bring in new votes, old votes and everyone we can.
pity he's not drawing the big crowds...

only 35,000 people at a rally friday night; and yesterday the whistlestop tour...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZV1y-zXTR4

then there was the post-rally march
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYUkyvpA_a8&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igVRMJAB6qc

too bad we can't find someone who can motivate the masses....

[ClassWarrior]

39. .

[cliffordu]

20. Why?

I have seen nothing in any of your posts that would make me believe this.

Nothing of any real value on the subject, that is.

Is this just about liking Hillary more, or is there something more sinister in the motive for saying this??

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Zachstar]

21. America wants Obama. Nobody is going to "Fuck Up" by nominating him

Take your bull elseware.

McCain has been planning to run against Clinton for almost a decade. The republicans have more dirt and archives on her than they have on just about anyone else.

If they can't use those archives then McCain will be easy to beat

100 years in Iraq?
Bush Tax Cuts permanent?
More wars?
More action to keep soldiers from going to college?
3rd term of Bush?

And for the republicans theres the fact that he flip flops on just about everything. First he hates Bush and now he is a Bush pet now? For example.

That is why he will politically destroy Clinton. So that she does not get a chance to expose his shit.

So take that crap elseware.

[roguevalley]

23. proof that McCain is bulletproof? Just the savings and loan shit

will trump anything you can say about Obama. His war thing and Sadr's pledge to turn up the war will do that fucker in. You dream for things you can't have.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Olney Blue]

8. Failure is not an option.

[ClassWarrior]

10. I'm confident in us.

Yes we can.

NGU.

[babylonsister]

14. Yes. We. (All) Can! I believe in Obama and US! nt

[ClassWarrior]

41. .

[TragedyandHope]

19. Wrong

We are 99% and Obama is 1%. All the attacks, smears and snide remarks directed at Obama are actually falling upon every single one of the broad, diverse range of Americans who are working to move the country forward in a positive direction.

Every time you say "Obama is such-and-such," you also belittle his enthusiastic Democratic supporters. When Obama complains about all the distractions in this campaign, he is complaining on our behalf, not because he's whiny or because he has a thin skin. He's sticking up for us. He is our candidate and he would not be anywhere near where he is today without us.

Finally, I think most Obama supporters would agree that we are not supporting Obama just to be in an "us against them" battle, we are fighting for all Americans, even the supporters of his opponents. We truly want to get the country back on track and make life better for everyone (except maybe the billionaires).

[ClassWarrior]

26. Good point.

I was accounting for the cult of personality, but you are correct.

Puede.

NGU.

[EFerrari]

40. Well said!

[tabasco]

22. It's like saying we will lose the Civil War and we should vote McClellan.

That Abe Lincoln will get us all killed!

McClellan has the experience to end the war with the South!

[futureliveshere]

35. Well said... That is the crux of his campaign and what the Obama haters are not getting.

[ClassWarrior]

43. Don't call 'em haters. The ones doing the hating are trolls. The rest are our fellow Dems.

NGU.