How broke were Obamas? Hard to tell

[barb162]

How broke were Obamas? Hard to tell
By Ray Gibson, John McCormick and Christi Parsons | Tribune reporters
4:13 PM CDT, April 19, 2008

The Obamas often say they would still be in debt if not for his best-selling books, which began to swell the couple's bank account in 2005. In fact, for some period of time, Michelle Obama tells audiences, the couple's college loan payments cost them more than their monthly mortgage.

As young lawyers, the Obamas pursued non-profit or public service during much of the 1990s. Obama once said he was so broke when he arrived in Los Angeles for the Democratic National Convention in 2000 that his credit card was rejected when he tried to rent a car.

snip
As for income, they earned a combined household total of slightly more than $240,000 in 2000, according to tax records they have since made public. (Their income fluctuated in that range until 2005, when they reported earning $1.6 million.)
snip

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-michelle-obama_side_bdapr20,0,6411442.story


WIth $240,000 income in 2000, his credit card was rejected when he tried renting a car? Now that doesn't sound like very good economic management to me. How many people felt sorry for him when he told that sorry story about the credit card?

[stellanoir]

1. Could have been a banking snafu.

We've all experienced those.

He has not accrued enormous debt throughout this campaign.

Unlike the others.

[barb162]

3. Yes, could be, but "Obama once said he was so broke" in 2000.

240,000 annual income isn't broke in my book.

[papau]

19. Obama is a liar was told to us about NAFTA, iRAQ, & social programs - so what's new?

As always, Obama can say the NAFTA wouldn't change, social programs are expected to not pass, and out of Iraq in 16 months is just campaign talk stuff were via folks called "chief advisors" and not from his own mouth -

and on this one who knows what debt he was paying to Rezko that took that $240,000 down to the level of credit card rejection.

[barb162]

52. I know, I know....

The Rezko stuff, I think there's a lot more there that just hasn't been uncovered and may never be. It still makes no sense why he went to Rezko on that mansion and that lot next to the house and why Rezko did the loan when he was already bankrupt at that time.

Listening to that damned criping about money when their incomes have been damned good gets pretty old pretty fast.

[Tellurian]

59. I read somewhere their first home was a condo..

If I remember correctly, their DP was $100,000 dollars. Now where they got to save $100k for a down payment on a condominium would be an interesting fact.

[barb162]

66. According to the article, that was '93. A good chunk of change back then.

"Public records paint only part of the financial picture. In 1993 they bought a condominium in Hyde Park for $277,500, paying about $111,000 as a down payment, according to county real estate records."

[Tellurian]

70. Thats what I mean...that DP should be looked into..

Just a hunch...someone else gave them the down payment for the condo..

Who would have that kind of cash back then to flip over to Obama?

And what obligation would he be under for such a huge favor?

[TankLV]

2. Not me. I wish I could reach the 100 thousand plateau, let alone their ELITE status...

his "poor poor us" is all phoney just like THEY are...

[emilyg]

5. he was never poor - never will be.

[dkf]

7. Didn't he make 13,000 a year as a community organizer?

I think I've got it pretty close.

[barb162]

14. So he says.

I don't know when that was. From 2000 on there was never less than 200,000 + income.

[dkf]

24. 1985.

Obama graduated with a B.A. from Columbia in 1983, then worked at Business International Corporation and New York Public Interest Research Group before moving to Chicago in 1985 to take a job as a community organizer.<7> He entered Harvard Law School in 1988.<8>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

[stillcool]

38. What do you know

about how much money his mother earned? Have you read his books? No. I didn't think so.

[barb162]

49. I think his mother didn't earn much and he was living with the grandparents

but we don't have their tax returns nor do I want to talk about their incomes or returns when he was a kid. It's just not germane to the article, is it? What's germane here is the tax returns from 2000 on and how much complaining is going on about credit cards, school loans, dance lessons, etc., with their pretty high personal incomes over the last seven years.

[stillcool]

65. I'm sorry.."complaining"...

I did not know that speaking of the enormous debt that people face after getting their degree was 'complaining'. You say 'he has never been poor'..yet you 'think' his mother 'didn't have much money'? Maybe you're right. Maybe everyone should shut the fuck up about any and all difficulties in life.

[EffieBlack]

102. Well, at least SOME people should shut up about it . . .

Other people can talk about it all they want and be praised for having come so far in life. All depends upon whose doing the talking. You know?

[barb162]

9. Thank you. Michelle Obama particularly likes to whine

about those student loans and I wonder why on their large income they weren't paying them off way earlier.

[stillcool]

37. "It's kind of hard to tell"

or so says the article. Do you know what their student loans were? Did they make too much money for you, or not enough? What is your definition of 'whine'? Do only the Obama's Whine? Or does every American who votes for Obama whine as well?

[stillcool]

39. You have no idea what you are talking about..

Arrogant, Self-Righteous, Ignorance.

[slor]

4. Did he tell the story for sympathy?

it sounds like it was an attempt at humor. In any event, I like the fact that he went into public service first.

[barb162]

10. I believe he told it for sympathy

"It wasn't so long ago, he reminded another audience, when he had taken out loans for his failed 2000 congressional race against Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.). He said he was nearly broke when he arrived in Los Angeles for the Democratic National Convention that summer. His credit card was declined when he tried to rent a car."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051224obama,1,1815354.story?page=3

Maybe it was the loans he took out, but then if he had no money, why did he take the trip to the Convention? It just doesn't sound like very good personal money management.

[EffieBlack]

23. He didn't tell it for sympathy. He was poking fun at himself

and telling the audience he doesn't take seriously the hoopla surrounding him after his 2004 convention speech since, only a few years before, he could barely get into the convention and the only credential he managed to scarf up only gave him "access to the bathrooms."

I've heard him tell this story several times. It's very funny. But it's not a "woe-is-me" tale or an attempt to paint himself as recently destitute. It's just funny.

You all are making WAY too big a deal out of this.

[ampad]

31. Yup and love to go after Michelle Obama

for her so called whining. Hell, Hillary is the queen of whining.

[barb162]

43. I nwever heard HRC talk about how they had no money for dance, etc., lessons

on a big income. That's Michelle's department.

[barb162]

69. I've heard him telling this story in person. I think it was for sympathy

You know, the poor kid with the big ears who had the single mom bit, the voting rights activist, blah, blah, blah. At least that was the way he told it back then.I remember being really impressed. Meanwhile, Michelle invariably whines about lack of money. When I heard him in person he already had his million buck mansion but he didn't mention that part of his story or that he was already in a high income bracket. He just concentrated on the poor me stuff.

[EffieBlack]

76. Either you didn't really ever hear him tell this story or you're purposely mischaracterizing it

If you had actually heard the story, you would surely know that he was not trying to elicit sympathy or posed himself as "the poor kid with the big ears." The story had nothing to do with him being poor, or disadvantaged or deserving of sympathy. It is a funny story in which he pokes fun at all of the hoopla surrounding his convention speech. There is absolutely no "poor me" aspect to the story at all - which you certainly must know if you had actually heard him tell it.

[babylonsister]

6. Is it hard to tell, are you accusing them of making too much, or

are you trying to help me sympathize for Clinton? I can't tell from this bizarre post. Maybe it was a cc screw-up, maybe the Trib doesn't have the full story. It's hard to tell.

[BlooInBloo]

8. They're just accusing him. Don't matter about what, so long as there are accusations "out there".

EDIT: Typing snafu.

[barb162]

12. If he can't manage his own money, how can he manage anything?

[BlooInBloo]

15. Can we also talk about how Clinton can't keep her husband satisfied?

Of course not - stupid shit like that is bush-league either direction.

Voted for war on one side, had trouble getting a credit card on the other.

The funny part of it is that Clinton supporters really don't understand why they're losing. :rofl:

[barb162]

17. Go talk about Bill on your own thread

Clinton will win PA.
:rofl:

[babylonsister]

18. How about his campaign? He's managed that more than effectively.

Unlike you-know-who. And I'd like a background story on that cc from a reputable source before I start spreading rumors.

[barb162]

44. He's got way more money coming in to his campaign than HRC..

And I never heard of mismanagement of the Clinton personal income where credit cards were maxed out and then they complained about being soooo damned poor.

[juajen]

114. Well, that's just silly; as if he manages his own campaign!

Ya'll live in a dreamworld.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

25. Perhaps he's learned to manage it better over the years

He doesn't seem to be having much trouble paying his campaign bills. But Hillary is having much more serious problems than a declined credit card with her campaign. Has she paid her staffers' health care bills yet? Has she paid all those other unpaid bills from before Super Tuesday? Is she going to have to loan her campaign money again this month because she pissed away too much early on thinking she was the annointed winner?

[barb162]

50. I hope so

although with the way Michelle cripes about the cost of dance lessons for the kids, I have to wonder.

I have no concern with the HRC finances here as the article is not about that. What I am noticing from both Barack and Michelle is their whining about money WHEN THEY'VE HAD A LOT of MONEY the last seven years at least, something the Clintons don't do. DO you ever hear HRC complain about their money problems when they were just married and paying off law school loans? No.

[EFerrari]

26. The Obama campaign doesn't owe money all over the country.

[barb162]

60. So what? Neither does HRC's. But that 's not the subject here, is it.

Is that the subject of the article or the Obamas' seemingly wild spending. Look, if you made 240,000 a year about 7 yrs ago and your credit card(s) was maxed would you be dumb enough to be getting on a plane and renting a car and then be telling people now, as in complete strangers / voters , you were "broke"? Because that's what Obama is doing. And Michelle seems fixated on money, trying to convince people they should be feeling sorry for her (or something) when their income these last several years is quite big by most standards, at least according to their tax returns. SO tell me, do you feel sorry for Michelle when she sits down with a bunch of regular blue collar women and starts telling them how hard it is to give dance lessons to her kids when their annual income is probably around the money Michelle spends on dance lessons? Is your heart bleeding for Michelle Obama? Does HRC ever stoop to this level of crap? No.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

81. FAIL.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/31/politics/politico/main3981095.shtml

[barb162]

88. That's already old and I think a lot of that has been paid off.

Do you have a problem with the OP article and Obama doing a cripe about how he's "broke" on 240,000 a year back in 2000? Is that at least a "little" weird to you?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

90. She missed the latest FEC deadline, which will likely show most of that debt remaining.

[Shae]

106. sfexpat2000 is completely missing the point. ....

This is the trash Obama thread.
And not to mention that Michelle Obama has COMPLAINED about not having enough money, so let's crown Hillary Queen of the USA before the month is out.
Happy now?

[ampad]

33. Oh hell no!

LOL, OMG Hillary is stiffing folks out of money, being threatened with law suites, had to loan her campaign 5 million. WOW you people, how many donuts do you think Hillary got for that 5 million :rofl:

[Forkboy]

58. What about Hillary's campaign debts?

If she can't manage her campaign how can she manage anything?

I can hardly wait to see your shifting stance on management issues.

[barb162]

80. Obama can't manage his own personal finances.

Check the story again he's sayin' he was "broke" on 240,000 income that year. Broke, I tell you, broke!

[Forkboy]

110. Doesn't answer my question.

What about Hillary's debts, and how do you feel about those?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

79. Hillary still owes vendors from IOWA.

I wouldn't talk.

[barb162]

11. I'm trying to get you to see how he manages his money. NOT WELL.

On 240,000 in income, why was he taking a trip he perhaps couldn't afford? How was he blowing his money?

What's bizarre about the story other than he doesn't seem to manage his money very well.

[slor]

13. Are you bothered by Hillary...

needing to borrow cash for her campaign a few weeks back? Or not paying people for their services?

[barb162]

16. Yes.

But my post is not about that. It's about Obama's large personal income and his and Michelle's complaining about money, dance lessons for the kids, paying off school loans, etc., when they've actually had a huge income for many years.

[roseBudd]

34. That is a very DEEP question & it MUST be answered FORTHWITH or we are DOOMED!!!!

what kind of woman COMPLAINS!

[barb162]

42. What's a very DEEP questions again?

:)

[redstate_democrat]

84. Have you thought about the tax rate on 240K in 2000?

Their tax bracket in 2000 for a married couple filing jointly was 36%. So, 36% in FEDERAL TAXES were deducted. That isn't counting STATE AND LOCAL taxes. So, just for good measure, deduct another 20% from that amount. And further more, what about the COST OF LIVING in Chicago, one of the most expensive cities to live in? Add to that their Student Loans which were probably a combined 150k from law school and undergraduate school for the both of them? Other debt like car loans, mortgage? How much would that leave someone to live on in a big city like Chicago? Not to mention the fact that they had two kids to take care of.

[cliffordu]

20. Aw, Come on, Hillary, we told you about this last week.....

[barb162]

21. Really? In what thread did HRC tell oh-so poverty-stricken Obama

not to take a trip when he couldn't "afford" it on an annual income of 240,000?
:)

[cliffordu]

22. Aw, garsh, barb,

FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


:yourock:

[barb162]

45. Whatever you say

( that is, if I could figure out what you were sayin')

[zulchzulu]

85. "...combined household total of slightly more than $240,000"

So what did he combine, genius?

[GoesTo11]

27. Not broke, doing well, not massively wealthy as many politicians

Pretty easy to tell. About 10 years out of school, lots of student loans. Bought a reasonable condo (probably 2-3 beds, 1-2 baths) in 1993 in the pricey neighborhood where University of Chicago is. Then worked as public service type lawyers but at salaries that even then rose pretty quickly because they had two Harvard law degrees. You would call it upper middle class, and if at any point they'd decided to really go for the bucks (other than writing best-selling books, which is like winning the lottery), they would have had a lot more pretty quickly if they wanted to. But certainly not upper-class out-of-sight, like Edwards or (now) the Clintons or the Bushes. At that kind of money, they would do their own grocery shopping and yes, scrape their own windshield.

[TLM]

28. Isn't it sad... that Hillary's minons....

Are put in the unenviable position of trying to attack a family making 240K a year as rich and elitist, when Hillary's household made 110 million.

You obviously haven't got much experience with debt, or you're being willfully intellectually dishonest... when most of every check you get is eaten up by mortgages or loan payments, it can take some time to get caught up even if you do start making more.

I'm currently making about 35 K to 40 K a year, and am sitting on about 30k in student loan debt. According to your logic, I should have my loans all paid off, right, with about 5 k to spare?


"Now that doesn't sound like very good economic management to me." Yeah he should have just gone to Columbia and made a few speeches supporting the new NAFTA style trade agreement, and made 800,000 like Bill Clinton did. Duh.

[ampad]

36. But but but

We are not talking about the Clinton's in this thread. We are only allowed to talk about the Obama's per the OP's instructions. If you are allowed to compare and contrast the Clinton's and the Obama's then her argument (which is already flawed) would be an epic failure. How utterly pathetic.

[barb162]

48. When have the Clintons whined about their personal income

in her campaign as Barack and Michelle have done quite mightily. I think the Obamas' complaining is pretty pathetic when their income is relatively massive compared to most people in this country. You might want to take a look at the comments after the article to see how many people feel sorry about their whining on their income. Clue: not many. Many of the commenters were laughing or sarcastic.

Sample Comments:
"Yep, he understands us po folks! Sure does. "
-----
"I am fed up to the gills with the "woe is me" Obama stories. I did vote for him for US Senator, but no way will he get my vote now. He has proven himself to be a big phony in my book. He does not represent who I am, where I come from, or where I'm going. It's Sentor Clinton who gets my vote! Why are Americans apparently shy about electing a woman to high office? Or is it the slave guilt that's getting in the way? Many of the civilized nations in the world have or have had woman at the helm. It's high time the US did, too
----

"Yeah, he's clearly the spitting image of the hardworking 'blue collared attitude' American. Puhleez, he went to Harvard and made money as corrupt Chicago lawyer and politician.

Please IL, we all know how bad politics are in Chicago. Do we really want to let Chicago politics expand nationwide? Keep Obama in Chicago, vote anyone else.

[EFerrari]

29. A little over a 100k a year, while setting up housekeeping and while

setting up to run a national campaign -- and you think that's too much?

Are you on druge?

[barb162]

40. In the last 7 yrs, he's never had less than 200,000 in annual income

So why the fuck is he SOOOOO poor in the year of the LA Convention when his tax return for that year stated he had $240,000 in income?


"Are you on druge?"

Drugs, I think you meant?

No I'm not on drugs. Are you? Because where you got that 100,000 figure from the story or his tax returns, I don't know.

[zulchzulu]

82. "...combined household total of slightly more than $240,000"

Do you know what a COMBINED HOUSEHOLD TOTAL means?

Didn't think so.

:rofl:

[CreekDog]

30. thanks for the Anti-Democratic post!

:applause:

you wrote:

"WIth $240,000 income in 2000, his credit card was rejected when he tried renting a car? Now that doesn't sound like very good economic management to me. How many people felt sorry for him when he told that sorry story about the credit card?"

but i guess you WANT this election to be about all the Republican talking points, be they against Hillary or against Obama.

[barb162]

41. Don't you mean thanks for the reality check about Obama?

Do you think this story indicates he has good personal money management? BTW, to clarify, I am a HRC supporter.

[CreekDog]

92. You may be an HRC supporter, but you are peddling Republican arguments about Obama

so thanks soooooooooooooooo much because in my Democratic area I don't get much exposure to Republican/right wing political attacks and you've provided them without me having to go over to Drudge, Free Republic or National Review!

again, thank *you* soooooo much.

and thank you in advance for making it harder for one of our prospective nominees to beat McCain in November.

nice Democrat you are! :applause:

[karynnj]

32. Could have been that the credit limit minus the outstanding charges

were less than the up front amount that the car rental people put in. This would happen if he had purchased the airline tickets and perhaps other expensive things that he had not yet been billed for. This happened to us on one card once - even though we routinely pay off the credit cards in full each month - though we just switched to a different card.

[barb162]

53. That could be. That means he shouldn't be using the incident in his campaign

and saying he was so "broke" that year.

Thank you for that comment, I have heard of that happening to people.

[stillcool]

35. Well now that article is as clear as mud..

"kind of hard to tell"..but it is certainly worthy of making fun of them, right?

[barb162]

46. They could tell he was whining about being poor when his income was $240,000

that year. That's pretty clear.

[stillcool]

68. How much were 'their' debts?

How does it feel to condemn someone prior to any investigation? So much for an 'informed' electorate.

[barb162]

75. They incur their own debts. Who chose to buy a million dollar mansion.

Should I feel sorry for them for their big mortgage on their big mansion that they chose to buy? Are you kidding? Obviously they are not hurting if they bought such a huge mansion. And if they buy a 5 million dollar mansion should I feel even sorrier for them? So much for an informed electorate alright.

[stillcool]

77. You shouldn't 'feel sorry' for anyone..

These are "your" interpretations, and "your" conclusions. Based on what? Who asked you to "feel sorry"?

[barb162]

97. Why do you suppose they concentrate so much on those poor me stories?

What is that about? Why do they both keep doing it? Why did Obama talk about being " so broke" in 2000 but not mention what his income was in 2000? That and many similar stories tell me he's trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate. Why else tell it (being sooooo broke) but not the big income? He's a con artist, don't you think? You'd think he was Abe Lincoln splitting logs or something.

[stillcool]

103. oh..you mean the story of ..

how Senator Obama grew up? Or are you fixated on their student loans? Abe Lincoln? Hardly. Why don't you pick up one of his books, if you are really interested in learning something about the man. Otherwise...who are you talking about..yourself?

[TML]

47. Bad journalism

Without knowing what the minimum monthly payments were on the loans, or their terms, this is yet another non-issue.

[barb162]

51. Actually, it's a good piece of journalism as they tie in his comments

about being so poverty stricken with his tax returns. And he 's lying about being poor unless he and she were spending way beyond their means, which isn't anyone's fault but their own. If his credit was so maxed out, why did he get on that plane, let alone rent a car?It just seems to be some wild spending.

[Tatiana]

54. Do you know what the cost of living is in Chicago? n/t

[barb162]

61. As in the minimum? the median? the average?

Can you be more specific. I can tell you, though, anything over a 100,000 is well above average as we speak and the Obamas, for 2007, showed 4 million on their 2007 tax return. The article states they had nothing ever lower than than 200,000 the last seven years. So is anyone wondering about their comments about how broke they are and Michelle's obsessive whining about her kids' dance lessons and student loans? They live in a million + mansion too.

[madrchsod]

67. i guess they do`t care!

chicago is one of the cheaper big cities in america..

if you made 200,000 in rockford and you moved to chicago you would "lose" 37,000...but 37,000 is a small price to pay to get the hell out of rockford.

200thousand in that neighborhood is`t all that much...

[Hoof Hearted]

55. I would love to be a quarter of a million dollars worth of broke?

Poor, poor little baby.

[barb162]

63. Ding, ding. ding, ding ding!!!!

:)

I'm telling you, my heart constantly bleeds for them when they start talking about their personal finances and how hard uo they are.

[barack the house]

56. Sen. Clinton has 109 million and her campaign is stoney broke. GIVE ME A BREAK.

[barb162]

64. It's not broke. But are you ready to take up a collection plate for the Obamas?

What with the Obamas' 4 million in income last year?

They put $111,000 down on a $277,000 condo in 1993 during their super "poverty stricken" days, you know.

[last1standing]

57. Congratulations, you've found another petty quibble with Obama.

Does that assuage the void you feel when you hear that Clinton hates the grassroots base of the party?

These silly "gotcha" threads are getting more and more pathetic.

[barb162]

71. Pettty to you; take a look at some of the comments this story

is getting after the article. A lot of boohoos for the Obamas.

Tell me, I notice there are so many HRC gotcha threads here, do those bother you as much? Do you think Obama somehow represents the base? Hillary's medical plan is a lot more universal than Obama's; read Paul Krugman.

BTW, I think you have the base of the party dead wrong. I think it's lower and middle class working stiffs. So maybe you feel a void about being wrong about the real base of the party.

[last1standing]

74. I am a working class stiff and it was me that Hillary insulted.

You can make up all the lies you like about MoveOn being filled with "latte sipping liberals" but the truth is that us working class stiffs are a major part of the operation. And yes, I do feel a void every time I read some asinine thread that tears down a Democrat for no good reason, but I stood up for Hillary time and again here at DU only to find out that she didn't stand up for me. I'm done with her and her style of politics.

[barb162]

86. "MoveOn being filled with "latte sipping liberals"

Who is talking about the above or making up lies about it? I never mentioned that group here. Who is making what up here?

What I am talking about here is Obama and this story I posted and the discrepancies between their huge income/ their tax returns over the last several years and what the two of them have been are saying on the stump; the unending, woeful, poor me, etc., bullshit. For whatever reasons you think HRC doesn't stand up for you, I look at Obama lying about his personal finances, his and Michelle's poor me stories as just absolutely ludicrous and hypocritical. I feel done with his and Michelle's style of politics.

Don't you cringe or at least roll your eyes when Michelle Obama mentions those ol' student loans again when you know their income was 4 million in 2007? (Couldn't they have gone to local state universities for a lot, lot less? Answer: yes.)

[goldcanyonaz]

62. Umm, $240,000 doesn't go as far as it used to?

[barb162]

72. Bwahahaha.

Not for the Obamas. They're just about living out on the street begging for food if you listen to Michelle long enough. I think that's why they put her out to pasture for a few months a while back.

[zulchzulu]

73. WOWW!! CREDITR CARD GATE!!! THHIS IZ HUGH11!!!!

:puke:

Are you fucking kidding?

[BlooInBloo]

78. Take pity on them. It's all they got.

[barb162]

93. I cry myself over to sleep over Obama's mortgage bill every night. Really.

:(

[BlooInBloo]

96. Hush, snarkless one.

[madrchsod]

87. no they are not...sad is`t it.....

[barb162]

89. Why don't you take the article for what it is? Obama not handling his finances

too well, saying he's "broke" on a pretty large income. Why make it into a SCANDAL and use a red herring argument. Look at the Obamas, their obsessive whining about money, their crazy spending, etc., and draw your own conclusions.

[zulchzulu]

107. You apparently can't read the article...

You're harping that Obama made $240,000 in 2000. That is the combined amount. I'm guessing you have no clue what that means.

Add that when you have two student loans at $62,000 each and two kids living in one of the most expensive cities in the US...you're thinking this is an issue? Are you nuts?

Seriously...

[Chisox08]

83. In 2000 Obama was a state senator

In Illinois a State senator makes over $150,000 a year.

[barb162]

91. In 2000, Obama reported an AGI of 240,505 and talked about being "broke."

What can be said about his money management skills other than they're not so hot.

[EffieBlack]

95. You're really reaching, aren't you?

Tell you what - if you think that this is such a big deal and is a serious issue that calls into question his fitness to be president . . .

DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Thank you.

[barb162]

98. Are you saying the 2000 income figure is incorrect? Check his tax return.

Do you think he's a man of the people like he's trying to portray himself? I'm not reaching at all. (Let him bowl another game of 39 to prove what a man of the people he is.) I'm sorry the article gets on your nerves.

[EffieBlack]

100. I didn't say the figure is incorrect. I said your claim that his salary as a state senator was $150k

is wrong. If you're going to try to make a point, it would have more credibility if you at least got your facts straight.

As for your question about his "being a man of the people," why do you think someone who earns money can't be a man of the people? Are you that big of a snob that you think that the minute someone who works hard achieves financial success, that they can no longer be considered to be acceptable? Are you really so provincial in your views of the world and the people in it that you really believe that someone has to be a good bowler in order to be worthy of acceptance by you?

Wow. Talk about crabs in a barrel.

[barb162]

105. I never wrote a word here about his salary in the IL legislature.

If I did, show me the post.

Now as for your other comments, his comment about being broke and Michelle's comments about the school loans and the other bills, what are they trying to show with those comments when they have a fairly huge income the last several years? When he says he was "broke" he NEVER says his large income that year, does he? No, he just says he was so broke he couldn't rent a car. ( shucks, the poor guy) Why is he telling that dumb story over and over? What's his and Michelle's game? Think it through. Then talk about crabs in a barrel.

[EffieBlack]

94. Where did you get THAT figure? It's flat out wrong

An Illinois state senator's salary was approximately $50,000 per year in 2000. Perhaps you're confusing this with the salary of the Illinois governor or a U.S. Senator makes? Either way, your figure is wrong.

By the way, Obama spent more than $20,000 of his own money on his unsuccessful Congressional campaign in 1999-2000, money that he did not get back for more than two years. This was in addition to paying off enormous student loans and other debt, so while he and Michelle may have had a decent joint income, it is certainly understandable that his credit card was maxed out and money was tight for awhile. And since you have no idea of what other financial obligations he had (family medical bills, sister's college, etc.), assuming that he is either lying about being strapped or is a spendthrift is pretty presumptious.

Now, can we move on to something else?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/politics/03obama.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[barb162]

99. It's absolutely correct. It's from his 2000 tax return.

Look at his tax return yourself and tell me he was poverty stricken in the year 2000 when he's telling people he was "broke." Does he lie a lot or what?
And BTW, he only gave $2,350 in charity that year off that pretty big income. If you want to move on to something else, may I ask why are you on this thread? Feel free to move on to another thread. :)

[EffieBlack]

101. No, it's wrong

You claimed that his salary as a State Senator was $150,000. It was not. State Senators earned approximately $50,000. And his tax return shows that he and his wife earned a combined income of $240,000. It does NOT say that he earned a $150,000 salary as a State Senator as you claimed.

If you're going to whine about Obama making too much money to qualify for your approval, at least get your facts straight first.

[barb162]

111. In what post did I claim anything about his state sen. salary?

I haven't claimed anything about his salary as I didn't check what it was. I only checked his tax returns. My facts are straight. Yours aren't.

[McCamy Taylor]

104. No one with a higher degree and their health knows that true poverty is.

Education equalizes salaries in this country. I feel for the people whose parents will never bother or be able to get them beyond high school. That is true poverty.

[CK dexter]

109. Many higher degrees necessitate a short period of technical poverty

Those with higher degrees don't know TRUE poverty, but they come a lot closer to real poverty than most other members of the solidly middle class. Many higher degrees require living 5-10 years on poverty level wages (in my academic field, $10-15K is the norm). And once the degree is complete, in many fields the chances of finding fulltime employment are very poor (most of the people I graduated with failed to find jobs, living on poverty wages for another 5 years or so while looking for permanent work, then eventually starting, well into their 30's, back at square one, taking entry level bottom rung jobs in new fields).

So if the implication is that higher-degree = MORE privileged, that's deeply, deeply, mistaken.

[CK dexter]

108. 240K - ((law school loans * 2) + children + mortgage + debts from low income years)) =

Could quite easily = maxed out credit.

Law school debts can be mindboggingly high. And I know from experience how hard it it is to get out of the higher education debt hole when making poverty level wages for years. Add a family, a house, and the start up costs of an aspiring political career, and I'm not surprised at all by the suggestion they were "broke."

This is all before his book income, and before his hugely successful Presidential campaign fund-raising--to keep it in perspective.

[barb162]

112. Interesting point

but I would make the point that they could have chosen excellent state schools for far less $$$$. Plus children, mortgages and debts are all choices. I remember my first mortgage and wondering if I could make that monthly payment. It seemed like a large expense at the time but no one chose to do it but me.
There's still a lot we don't know, e.g., if they had scholarships, etc.

[Straight Shooter]

113. I guess I'm wondering why the Obamas felt the need to live in such a tony neighborhood.

There were a lot of derogatory comments about John Kerry and his fancy house, heaven knows Edwards got lambasted for his so-called mansion as proof positive he's out of touch with the common people. Hillary has been figuratively tarred and feathered for the quality of her home(s).

Why do the Obamas get a pass?

Good night. Good luck to all in Pennsylvania.

[nolabels]

115. Tony?

Last year a $277,000 condo in So Cal would be the low rent district.

Maybe, kinda also, the location of where they lived might have had something to do with the district where he held that state senatorial office maybe, kinda :think:

Then maybe also the $20.00 haircut fooled us too. That's got to be it, he is secretly heir to a billionaire but has to prove he can be frugal to get his inheritance