Give the Florida delegates to Hillary Clinton. Right now. Maybe she will hush about it.

[madfloridian]

I think it would be best. Will they put her over the line? Who knows. Since her surrogates think the popular vote and electoral votes are the way to go....they may not know enough to figure it out.

Never mind that the rules were followed. She is bigger than party rules.

Never mind anything else. She wants those delegates...give them to her.

Never mind that that it was about the arrogance of a big state who thought they were more important.

Never mind that as some said, a bunch of jackasses in Florida overreached.

Give her the delegates today.

Then let her hush, let her surrogates hush. Let them be silent.

(To those who are taking me so deadly serious...I am only partly so. I can't put the sarcasm tag, but I am not really being sarcastic. I guess I am just fed up...I don't know what tag to use for that.)

[writes3000]

1. Florida will get the delegates (or half delegates) once the nomination has been settled.

But not before.

[madfloridian]

3. I can't stand it anymore. Give them to her now.

Today.

There is even a post here today about it.

[dchill]

8. Yeah, I think I saw those FL delegates ...

in the KITCHEN SINK.
:shrug:

[Zachstar]

18. Then stop worrying about it.

The answer is no. 50/50 or wait until the convention for a decision to be seated.

[madfloridian]

36. Can't stop worrying about it.

They have used lies and spin, and a supporter was on TV today, a governor, saying the nominee was chosen by popular vote...or something like that.

Can't get over the lies. Oh, it was Corzine saying it I think.

[Zachstar]

43. Do you see it meaning anything? I mean so far Obama is still winning contests.

Let them lie, cheat, and spin nobody cares anymore. America has grown tired of the bullshit coming out of FL and they are no longer buying it.

Do you not understand that this whole brewhaha was so they could get the cameras and the news into FL? It is called being desperate for attention.

Sadly Clinton played into it trying to even up the race with tainted vote counts. Tho even the Clinton Campaign has stopped pushing it as much because they are quickly noticing nobody is buying that stand.

She knows that the delegates are going to be seated 50/50 that is just simple at this point.

[madfloridian]

46. Yes, here is what I see.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2003

[Zachstar]

49. I am not even going to read that it is so laughable.

They can do that but it wont work. Because the supers have been going to Obama and by the convention we will lead in delegates by a great deal.

Can we stop you know being scared n stuff?

[madfloridian]

50. You mistake my disgust for fear.

.

[Zachstar]

52. No sir I do not

What you are showing is fear in my view. You are afraid that somehow Clinton is going to somehow convince them with this silly argument that not even George Bush is dumb enough to use to get the supers to switch.

Otherwise you would not be saying to give her the delegates.

[madfloridian]

53. I am not a sir.. check my profile. You do not understand my post at all.

So I will no longer bother to explain it.

But if you think I am wrong about what she will say on the issue....think again.

Just don't call me sir.

[Zachstar]

54. Forgive me on that part. But again Clinton is not that stupid.

It will be the end of her political life! It will look nationwide that she is trying to use some vauge crap to keep an African American from reaching the level of president. Same vise versa if he tried that on her.

You get it? Two states that voted to break the rules being used in an attempt to tell a candidate that he/she did not win legitimately? The chaos will be EXTREME.

[madfloridian]

58. She is already doing it. Haven't you noticed?

You said you would not read what I wrote...so maybe you haven't noticed. :shrug:

[Writer]

22. I've heard this, and I find it a little strange.

So we're not going to use them to decide the victor, but we're going to hand the delegates out after the victor is chosen so, I suppose, we can legitimize the victor?

Huh.

[madfloridian]

28. If she doesn't get them now, she will declare Obama not legit....

So give them all to her now to shut her up.

:wow:

[Writer]

30. I would assign them in order to maintain some legitimacy come the GE.

I have a feeling that Florida would be a little pissy in November.

[madfloridian]

33. Florida is a bully for Clinton. They are winning with the help of the media

and the Florida bloggers.

[OzarkDem]

37. That would be illegal

and it shoud be challenged in court.

Cults of personality should not be allowed to hijack the rules and laws governing the Democratic Party. That sets a dangerous precedent.

Next thing you know, Obama supporters will be saying he doesn't have to be a Democrat to get the nom.

[Skip Intro]

69. So their votes would count for nothing. What would it be then, a show? A parade of FL dels taking

their seats just in time for the end of the convention.

God, how insulting to everyone that would be.

Either their votes are going to count TOWARD the nomination, or they're not going to count.

If they don't count, we can count FL as red this year, maybe longer.

It's not rocket science.

[Vinca]

2. I'm hoping it gets to the point they can hand over her illegal

Florida delegates and tell her to STFU and Obama still wins.

[madfloridian]

4. I say give them to her today.

I am tired of the posts here by her supporters that advocate that breaking party rules is ok.

Maybe they will hush if they get what they want.

[Zachstar]

19. You think they will stop?

Once you give them the delegates they will moan about Obama "Waiting" so long and other stuff.

Just calm down.

[MattBaggins]

27. Next year every damn state in the union should

wait until Florida announces it's primary date; and then set theirs for the week before.

[madfloridian]

29. That's a good one. Thanks for the idea.

:hi:

[PatGund]

66. It wouldn't

Look at OzarkDem's comments on this post. It's obvious even if they got the delegates, they'd want to twist the rules again to benefit Sen. Clinton.

Something like demanding delegates from caucuses be cut, or certain states be cut, or any other underhanded subversion of the rules they can think of to benefit Sen. Clinton.

[OzarkDem]

38. I'd like to see it settled in court

So Obama's arm twisting campaign can't subvert justice. We've had enough of that from the GOP and Bush administration during the last 8 years.

[babylonsister]

5. She won't hush though; that's the problem. Next, she'll demand MI.

When will it end?

[madfloridian]

6. Then, hell, give her MI delegates also.

Anything to hush her up.

[babylonsister]

11. Nope, bad idea imo. I think they should just split both states' delegates up

50-50 and call it a day.

[madfloridian]

12. Well, I have been saying that forever, and getting nowhere.

I must have written a thousand posts about it.

Got nowhere.

Just give them all to her.

[Zachstar]

20. No

[MercutioATC]

7. This isn't about Clinton, it's about preserving the integrity of the rules.

Florida and Michigan should get NO delegates seated. There must be a strong statement made that encourages states to follow the rules.

[madfloridian]

9. Nobody believes that anymore.

It is not about rules, it is about her.

[MercutioATC]

15. You misunderstand.

I'm not arguing the political validity of either candidate's arguments. I'm arguing that there is NO way that FL and MI can be seated without setting a precedent that would allow other states to break the rules whenever they chose.

This issue is much bigger than this particular primary.

[ladywnch]

60. agreed. and we've already had 8 years of people breaking the rules

when it suits their purposes. Either laws/rules matter or they don't. I say this regardless of who was making the argument/whinning....obmama or hillary, since my first two choices for nominee have already left the race.... I have no real dog in this fight, but I DO believe rules matter.

[madfloridian]

63. You know what?

If you had read anything of the 1000 or so damn posts I had written on the FL and MI debacles....you would know I am not serious.

[Zachstar]

21. And you feed that than in 2016 and 2016 youll have the same thing.

[OzarkDem]

40. What about the other states that violated rules?

Shouldn't we hold everyone to the same standard?

[MercutioATC]

51. Like?

[Yael]

10. Why do you hate Michigan?

:cry:

[madfloridian]

13. Give her MI also....anything.

:hi:

[cliffordu]

14. Yep - then she won't have ANYTHING to snivel about at the

convention.

[psychmommy]

16. mad hill doesn't deserve it.

if they got that they would whine and complain about some other reason why they were losing. let fl be seated at the end or not at all. rules matter and i expect to see her fizzle out soon anyway.

[NorthCarolina]

17. You can't because it would disenfranchise all those who didn't turn out to vote

because they thought their vote wasn't going to count. When you establish rules at the beginning of a game, you don't then simply "change the rules" at the end of the game.

What is so friggin hard to understand about that? All candidates agreed to the rules at the beginning including Hillary Clinton. So, the rules are the rules...it's a done deal...so let's just move on.

[BzaDem]

23. Just have a revote.

That solves every single problem you posted here and you keep posting. Completely within the rules.

[Zachstar]

44. Too late for a revote. They take months to set up.

We called for a revote months ago and nobody cared.

[City Lights]

24. Nothing will hush up her surrogates. Give 'em FL and they'll demand MI.

Give 'em MI, and they'll demand the nomination.

I could stomach her getting the pledged delegates from FL, but not the soopers. FL has to pay some price for their actions. It's just not fair to seat MI though. At this point, I think the only fair thing to do with MI is split the pledged delegates 50-50. No soopers in MI either.

Just my .02 :-).

[crankychatter]

25. In six weeks Florida and Michigan will be DEAD to Hillary Clinton

Because the SDs and the people, are going to finish this thing within six weeks... the momentum is going to increase exponentially next week.

When that happens... Fl and MI will be useless and therefore, DEAD to her.

If I listened to them as much as YOU have been listening to them... I'd be mad too... wanting them to sit down and shut up.

[madfloridian]

31. I live among the stupid chatter....not a play on your name

...

And I do wish it would end.

I can't take it anymore

[crankychatter]

35. After working in Lousiana I spent time in Tallahassee

Half way between Georgiduh and Floribama... you have my sympathy in that way.

I think the SD's are going to roll over for Obama in a way that makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR, that he is the nominee... in the very near future....

Momentum comes from people realizing who the winner is... and voting accordingly... Factor in the dawning awareness that this Primary is hurting our chances in November?

the worm is turning


If Obama were a little further left I would't be so sure... but although he's squeaky clean... he's still not that big of a threat to the Military Industrial Complex and other Corporate Transnationals...

They favor Clinton but nobody wants to lose... they'll make the adjustment

[madfloridian]

42. Both are centrists, but have different attitudes.

Obama's attitude is inclusive, Hillary's attitude is not inclusive for many in her own party.

Obama is taking the approach Dean took in 03 and 04...bringing activists into the party. He was also a centrist, but inclusive.

[crankychatter]

55. yup... I'm personally stoked

you hit it

he's gonna be fine and so are we

the world will be a happier place

events keep shifting and I keep seeing a slightly different perspective on this train wreck of a primary... you'll catch me contradicting myself in a few days time...

today, I'm guardedly optimistic

people are waking up... that debate and all this BS media spin is eliciting a VISCERAL response from Democrats still seething over 2000 and 2004

Obama's candidacy is Dean's vindication.

[dailykoff]

26. How about giving her a gift box of Florida oranges instead?

A really nicely wrapped one. :hi:

[ladywnch]

61. with a very pretty big bow!......maybe some streamers too.....

[morningglory]

32. Wait just a minute! A lot of N. Florida and I went for Edwards. Do we count? nt

[madfloridian]

34. Well, let's see...

I am not sure if you count. Florida's rules are not the same as the rules of other states. And they change from day to day. The rules are different here.

:crazy:

[OzarkDem]

39. Delegates should be seated

according to how the votes were tallied.

Obama needs to stop trying to hijack these primaries.

[QC]

48. No. We didn't vote for Obama. n/t

[DerekJ]

41. Mark my words. He will eventually seek to seat them.

Probably after Indiana, if everything goes alright.

[Zachstar]

45. If he trys to seat them as is he will lose my support.

And I will be leaving politics.

As will many others who will feel cheated when he goes against the fair call of 50/50 after we spent months calling for a revote.

Therefore if he does that then he will lose the nomination and democrats will lose in November.

It will not happen.

[BzaDem]

74. If he becomes the nominee, of course he will seat them as is.

Because it won't matter -- Obama will still be the nominee.

And you will be one of very few people that actually care at that point (at least among Obama supporters). Sorry, you won't be the reason we lose in November. You aren't that important.

[tbyg52]

47. I'd agree with you, except that it wouldn't shut them up

They'd just go on to something else.

[Auntie Bush]

56. How about a dog tag?

Will that suffice?

[hfojvt]

57. It was 50% to 33% to 14% in Florida

So an Edwards endorsement might loom a little larger

Here's a quote from the Obama campaign in August 2007

"Bill Burton, a spokesman for Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), said, "Hopefully, in the next 30 days, Florida and the DNC can reach agreement so Florida's delegates can contribute to the nomination contest.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews

""Rules are rules," said DNC member Garry S. Shays, of California, at the meeting. "California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos."

Donna Brazile, a member of the rules committee who argued for a swift and harsh punishment for Florida, said states' desire to be more relevant in the nominating process does not excuse violations of rules intended to make the system fair for everyone."

[quakerboy]

59. Ive been reading you for some time now

Don't give up the faith. Be patient. Let the remaining states have their votes. There is always the hope that they will render the whole thing point moot. Your work in keeping us informed is very appreciated.

[Liberal Veteran]

62. Why bother. She is so shameless, she would be out there claiming how she fought and won...

...to get those delegates counted.

Fuck her.

[4themind]

64. Don't give up your fight madf

Let's get all of the primaries in, then consider the fate of their delegation (in fairness to reward and give an incentive to those who waited). Hushing her now (vs. a month from now), isn't worth the risk of destroying the adherence of rules for many many election cycles. If you're tired of hearing about the complaints, I'd recommend ignoring them, or taking a hiatus from GD-P for a while (it's helped me when I get fatigued)

[madfloridian]

65. People only wish I would take a break.

What we have been through in this state with our DEC and DFA democrats has been painful.

I have seen a side of the Clintons, and a side of fellow Dems here I wish I had not seen.

[madfloridian]

67. Give them to her....count popular vote, electoral vote...give her the party

Turn the whole effing thing over to her.

She thinks she owns the party anyway.

Just let her have it.

[madfloridian]

68. Kick....

Give her the delegates. Let her have her way.

[madfloridian]

70. New Rules

for choosing our nominee.

Rule 1: Delegates, traditionally the way a nominee is chosen, only count if you want them to do so.

Rule 2: If you want the popular vote to count for the nominee, just say so...even though official records are not kept because that is not how the nominee is chosen.

Rule 3: If neither of the above work, try the "electoral vote" as Clinton's Florida surrogates have suggested.

If none of those work, just keep trying.

[Why Syzygy]

71. This one?

:argh:

I'm with you. Give them to her gloating arse. The numbers won't help her.

[madfloridian]

72. That one is not bad at all.

:argh:

Thanks. :-)

[Why Syzygy]

73. I tell you another thing, though ..

if there was some way for Florida to cinch the nomination for her, I would oppose the idea.
I think you are the greatest, but cannot bear the idea of Florida being responsible for our next president too. I don't think they should have that kind of power. They obviously have some voting issues down there, and we don't need to follow that particular path.

[madfloridian]

75. The whole thing is breaking my heart.

People are totally unaware that Hillary is using this state as a tool.