Universal Healthcare - Why not just TAX everyone?!?

[quantass]

Now Im still reading up on the matter and so i dont claim to have any knowledge on the matter. Im just curious as to why all the different approaches when you can simply tax all 300 million citizens, place the doctors on salary (increases with positive performance), and caps on drug pricing(?). I have no idea how far our Canadian system goes but i do know we're taxed, nothing about insurance do-dats. I've never gone to the hospital, not once besides being born, and I still feel content being taxed.

Help me understand Clinton/Obama/Edwards plans vs Canada/France/any other more civilized society's healthcare system.

Thanks

[sandnsea]

1. UnAmerican

I don't know what else to tell you. Cut taxes and kill terrorists. That's what we're dealing with down here. *sigh*

[DerekJ]

2. This will pass right over their heads my friend. They never lived in a single payer healthcare

system, so they don’t understand it.

There is absolutely no way to create a universal healthcare system without taxing people. None. Nada.

[grantcart]

3. The problem is that we don't have a parlimentary system.

In a parlimentary system political power for both the legislative and executive branch goes to a coalition. If one party can dominate that coalition then big changes like universal health care can be passed and executed.

In the American system power is divided and it takes a severe national crises -like the depression - to get a systemic change - like social security.

The only hope in the United States is to install it in increments.

[undeterred]

4. There is too much fat in our system

Insurance executives making millions off people's suffering while denying health care. Pharmaceutical companies grossly overcharging for drugs while no one else is allowed to make a generic competing brand. Administrative practices that are embarrassingly wasteful- the canadian system is ultra streamlined compared to ours. We bill separately for every friggin bandaid and aspirin. That's the fat. We need to gut the for-profit motive from the system and pare it down to doctors and patients.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. That would be the simplest and most straight forward approach.

We already have the tax system and the administration system in place with medicare. Doctors and hospitals need not become government employees, but the public system would set its own fee scales and would negotiate the heck out of the pharma boondoggle.

But we aren't headed that way. Instead we are headed for some sort of mandate system. In fairness, other countries have such systems and they can be made to work, but they are complicated, and if for-profit insurers are left in the system, the savings will not be as good as the could be so costs will still be higher than other nations are paying. A reform that brings everyone in, requires uniform coverage, forbids cherry picking, and makes insurance portable and guaranteed no matter what your financial situation is, would at least be a step in the right direction.

[floridablue]

6. Insurance/Drug company execs and shareholders

would try to start a revolution. Not to mention HMO shareholders and the entire medical profession.

[Dr.Phool]

7. TAX!!!!!??

Aaagh!!! Jed! He's seen my untouchables!!!

Hold on Elizabeth, it's the big one.

That's where we are in tax policy in this country. Taxes would be a lot cheaper than insurance premiums.

[Buzz Clik]

8. A truly universal health care will require a universal tax.

There are no proposals on the table today for unversal health care.

And, universal health insurance is lightyears away from universal health care. Don't be fooled.

Get the insurers out of the loop entirely.

[Dr.Phool]

9. HR 676

It would work, but nobody wants to touch it.

[TahitiNut]

15. Not quite "nobody" ... it has 78 cosponsors.

Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 5/5/2005
Rep Baldwin, Tammy - 5/10/2005
Rep Becerra, Xavier - 11/17/2005
Rep Berman, Howard L. - 9/12/2006
Rep Bishop, Sanford D., Jr. - 6/14/2006
Rep Brady, Robert A. - 12/5/2006
Rep Brown, Corrine - 11/15/2005
Rep Brown, Sherrod - 2/1/2006
Rep Capuano, Michael E. - 12/13/2005
Rep Carson, Julia - 6/7/2005
Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 2/8/2005
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 5/10/2005
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 5/5/2005
Rep Davis, Danny K. - 5/26/2005
Rep Delahunt, William D. - 12/15/2005
Rep Doyle, Michael F. - 5/22/2006
Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 6/7/2005
Rep Evans, Lane - 6/7/2005
Rep Farr, Sam - 5/5/2005
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 5/17/2005
Rep Filner, Bob - 4/5/2005
Rep Frank, Barney - 5/18/2005
Rep Green, Al - 2/16/2006
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. - 5/25/2005
Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 5/18/2005
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 6/13/2005
Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. - 5/5/2005
Rep Honda, Michael M. - 6/22/2005
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 5/25/2005
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 5/19/2005
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice - 7/25/2006
Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs - 11/14/2005
Rep Kaptur, Marcy - 2/14/2006
Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. - 5/26/2005
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 2/8/2005
Rep Lantos, Tom - 6/7/2005
Rep Lee, Barbara - 5/5/2005
Rep Lewis, John - 5/25/2005
Rep Lynch, Stephen F. - 11/17/2005
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 5/26/2005
Rep McDermott, Jim - 2/8/2005
Rep McGovern, James P. - 5/10/2005
Rep McKinney, Cynthia A. - 6/16/2005
Rep McNulty, Michael R. - 12/6/2005
Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 5/22/2006
Rep Miller, George - 5/10/2005
Rep Moore, Gwen - 9/21/2006
Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 5/25/2005
Rep Napolitano, Grace F. - 11/14/2005
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 7/25/2006
Rep Olver, John W. - 4/13/2005
Rep Owens, Major R. - 5/10/2005
Rep Pastor, Ed - 5/18/2005
Rep Payne, Donald M. - 5/10/2005
Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 4/5/2005
Rep Reyes, Silvestre - 2/14/2006
Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 2/8/2006
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 12/15/2005
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. - 7/25/2006
Rep Sanders, Bernard - 6/7/2005
Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 12/13/2005
Rep Scott, Robert C. "Bobby" - 5/25/2005
Rep Serrano, Jose E. - 5/12/2005
Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 7/12/2005
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 5/5/2005
Rep Thompson, Bennie G. - 5/19/2005
Rep Tierney, John F. - 6/15/2005
Rep Towns, Edolphus - 5/26/2005
Rep Udall, Tom - 5/26/2005
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 12/15/2005
Rep Visclosky, Peter J. - 6/22/2006
Rep Waters, Maxine - 12/15/2005
Rep Watson, Diane E. - 5/5/2005
Rep Waxman, Henry A. - 5/19/2005
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 5/25/2005
Rep Wexler, Robert - 2/1/2006
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 5/10/2005
Rep Wynn, Albert Russell - 5/5/2005

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00676:

[Dr.Phool]

17. I knew that it had plenty fo co-sponsors.

But, it seems like it's been on the back burner for way too long.

[stahbrett]

10. There's a PBS 'Frontline' healthcare episode that I found fascinating

You can watch it online here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

Basically, we don't necessarily need a so-called single-payer system to have a better healthcare system that can cover everyone.

Some things that other industrialized countries do (not necessarily all in the same country):
* Insurance companies forced to be non-profit
* Amounts that can be charged for drugs and treatment are negotiated and/or mandated to lower amounts.
* No one can be denied coverage.
* Wealthier pay more than the poorer in fees/taxes.

[DerekJ]

16. Ahem That's called Single payer + Tax :) No matter how you spin it.

:hi:

[sandnsea]

18. Treatment fees are mandated

And that pretty much makes it single payer, with non-profit "insurance companies" as not much more than paper pushers. I don't think the medical industry will ever go for being mandated. They can mandate we pay them whatever they want, but never the other way around. Isn't it curious we can get beer and burgers just about any hour of the day - but we can only see a doctor from 9 to 5. WE didn't set up that system.

[pnwmom]

11. Hillary has left open the possibility of doing a payroll deduction,

like Social Security -- and her plan will allow anyone to choose a government run option like Medicare.

[AlphaCentauri]

12. Universal Health care it's impossible in our barbaric prehistoric economic system

We function as a mass of consumers not like members of a civilized village.

[TahitiNut]

13. Eighteen industrialized nations with far superior health care just ain't enough evidence, I guess.

How FUCKING STUPID does someone have to be to ignore the conclusive evidence? :grr:

What is it about CHEAPER and BETTER that imbeciles can't comprehend?

[sandnsea]

19. The Frontline program had Taiwain as better than ours

Friggin' TAIWAN. sheesh.

[CTyankee]

20. The problem, Tahiti, as I experience it when I talk to people, is that

they say that with universal, single payer they're afraid that what they get instead of what they have now might not be as good. They're scared. They don't see the big picture. They know something is terribly wrong but they think a big change might end up hurting them. Can you blame them for being fearful, tho? They've been so screwed by their government they're unwilling to dare dream for something better.

Sad, really...

[crankychatter]

14. corruption of representative government for corporate profits

with media collusion

multi million dollar "think tanks" to give it all a rosey, ideological hue...

btw, you KNEW that... ya big silly Kuhnoodlian