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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 07:00 PM
Original message
Hillary's questions about Obama's patriotism and her enemies list
Last year Kerry defended Hillary when her patriotism was questioned:

August 6, 2007, 11:25 am

The Clinton-Kerry Alliance

By The New York Times

In his Web column today, Patrick Healy writes about the relationship between Senators John Kerry and Hillary Clinton:

At first blush they seemed like a surprising couple: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and Senator John Kerry, teaming up last month to defend Mrs. Clinton from Pentagon criticism over the Iraq war – criticism that had a Swift-Boat-style ring to it, her campaign believed, of questioning her patriotism.

The two senators are political rivals within the Democratic Party – he its nominee in 2004, she a leading candidate for the nomination next year. What’s more, Mrs. Clinton was among those who hobbled Mr. Kerry politically last year by criticizing him for a botched joke he made about President Bush and Iraq; Kerry friends say the blow-up over the joke was a factor in his not seeking the presidency again in 2008.

As a presidential candidate, too, Mrs. Clinton has pledged to fight back against attacks, to never be “Swift Boated” – implicitly suggesting that her campaign mettle would be different (and stronger) than Mr. Kerry’s. Indeed, her friends say she was no fan of the Kerry campaign, seeing it as feckless and undisciplined at times (two adjectives that people do not use about her or her operation).

more


I guess before Hillary's campaign went broke and she managed her campaign into a ditch, Hillary thought campaigning would be easy.

Video of Hillary knee-capping Kerry: Hillary Clinton Joins In

Kerry Statement on Cheney's Defense of Pentagon's Smear of Sen. Clinton

Then there is this:

Bill Clinton's offensive patriotism remarks (video)

There was a time when Bill Clinton's patriotism was challenged, repeatedly.

CLINTON: Ross gave a good answer but I've got to respond directly to Mr. Bush. You have questioned my patriotism.

BUSH: (Inaudible).

CLINTON: You even brought some right-wing congressman into the White House to plot how to attack me for going to Russia in 1969-70, when over 50,000 other Americans did. Now, I honor your service in World War II, I honor Mr. Perot's service in uniform and the service of every man and woman who ever served, including Admiral Crowe, who was your Chairman of the joint Chiefs and who's supporting me. But when Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking people's patriotism he was wrong. He was wrong. And a senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy, you were wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war but I loved my country and we need a president who will bring this country together, not divide it. We've had enough division. I want to lead a unified country.

link


Despite being labeled Judas, Richardson defended Bill's Obama comment. Hillary's campaign jumped to use it as their defense of Bill:

Richardson: President Clinton Was Not Questioning Sen. Obama's Patriotism

A contradiction: Hillary's camp pushed the Ayers' story a month earlier:

"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.

link


Robert Creamer

Clinton's Attacks on Obama Patriotism Have Nothing to Do With "What the Republicans Will Say in November" - Everything to Do with Her Own Strategy

For the last several weeks we have been inundated with statements from the Clinton Campaign (and some media pundits) arguing that their incessant attacks on Obama's patriotism, their use of McCarthyite "guilt by association", and attempts to make Obama look like a "cultural elitist" are all justified because "the Republicans will do it in the fall".

They justify lifting whole chapters from Karl Rove's Republican playbook as an attempt to demonstrate to Democratic voters and superdelegates that these kinds of charges will make Obama "unelectable" in the general election.

Many Clinton surrogates pick up the refrain with statements like: "Well I know Obama doesn't agree with those video clips of Rev. Wright, but that's what the Republicans will say about him." Or: "I know Obama's not really an elitist, but the Republicans will make him sound that way." Or: "They'll trot out all of his past associations, so it's important that we examine them now."

There are two things to say about this line of argument.

First, Clinton knows that her keyhole-sized chance of winning the nomination hasn't got a prayer if all she can do is make an argument to superdelegates for the "possibility" of what Republicans can say about Obama. The bottom has to fall out of the Obama candidacy. That requires a lot more than showing superdelegates that Obama might be vulnerable to Republican attack. They have to convince the voters that the charges they are raising are true -- that Obama is an unpatriotic elitist.

Clinton needs a stampede of superdelegates in order to win. That requires that Obama loses the final primaries by big numbers, and that his numbers in the national polls tank.

The problem for Clinton, of course, is that Obama is the furthest thing from an unpatriotic elitist, and that by relentlessly making these charges she has been raising her own negatives to dizzying heights.

The next time you hear the old "we're just bringing this up because the Republicans will say it", remember the kids in high school who used to go up to you and say, "I don't believe this about your friend Amy, but I'm telling you what other people are saying for your own good." Neither justification is true. In both cases they want you to believe the content of the personal attack.

Second, the general election will not be decided based on narratives constructed about past associations and old friends of the various candidates. And if it were the Republican slander machine would be equally well supplied by the Clinton's stable of past political and business connections (think pardon recipient Marc Rich).

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Thomas B. Edsall

Clinton Backer Distributes Essay On How GOP Would Link Obama To '70s Radicals

A high-ranking labor supporter of Hillary Clinton is distributing to union leaders and to Democratic strategists a document detailing the radical activities of Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, two former members of the '70s group the Weather Underground, who decades later, in Chicago, crossed paths with Barack Obama.

The document - a three-page emailed essay by Rick Sloan, communications director for the International Association of Machinists as Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) -- takes both literary and political license to outline what Sloan believes would be the thrust of a hypothetical Republican campaign against Obama focusing on his tangential connection to Ayers and Dohrn.

The goal of the essay appears to be to discredit Obama as the prospective Democratic presidential nominee.

The most damaging new material cited by Sloan appears in a link to an FBI Freedom of Information web site -- where a viewer can examine hundreds of pages of a study of the Weather Underground and its leaders, written in 1976 by the Chicago FBI office, just at the group was disintegrating at the end of the Vietnam War.

Sloan contends that the purpose of his document is to outline what he conjectures will be the tactics of Republican operative Karl Rove, an informal adviser to John McCain's campaign, if Obama is the nominee. The title of Sloan's paper is: "What Is Rove Up To?"

more


What is Hillary up to? She's compiling an enemies list -- Kerry? Check!

Saturday, April 19, 2008

At Clinton HQ, they're making a list... checking it twice.

by Joe Sudbay (DC) · 4/19/2008 05:21:00 PM ET

Another reason Hillary Clinton is losing may be explained in tomorrow's NY Times. The Clinton campaign seems to spend a lot of time figuring out which disloyal Democrats to hate -- and to what degree they should hate them. The Clinton campaign is on life support and they are busy making an enemies list.

Last year, word was that Team Clinton basically went around to donors and others with a clear message, which I'll paraphrase here:

Get on the bus, NOW. If you don't get on the bus, NOW, you will never get on the bus. This is the winning bus and we're going to remember who didn't get on early because when you try to get on, there won't be any seats left.

Despite the warnings, a lot of people took a different bus.

It does sound like the crew at the Clinton HQ puts a lot of time into tracking who, in their minds, has screwed them over. John Kerry is currently at the top of the hate list (a top Clinton supporter says Kerry is now "dead" to the Clintons):

Mr. Kerry, his top aides and family members have received varying degrees of tongue-lashing from Clinton surrogates, chiefly two top fund-raisers — John Coale and Peter Maroney — with previous close ties to Mr. Kerry.


You don't understand, Hillary doesn't believe it's her fault she is losing

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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary Rodham Nixon?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. hilary rodman(she was named after Dennis Rodman)
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 09:44 PM by zidzi
nixon rove bush clinton.

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. can I be on Hill's enemy list as well?
PLEASE????????


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Clintons know Kerry tapped into the national organization network he built up in 2003-4 for Obama
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 07:16 PM by blm
while they depended on kicking Dean out of the DNC chair by 2007 and using that national network for themselves.

Clintons fucked over the ONLY TWO Democrats with a national political network already in place.

Clintons are reaping what they have sown.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yup!
It's envy.

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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. given that Kerry would allow himself to be seen with bill when no
one else would should have been something to them but no.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Kerry stepped up for Bill in 92 over the draft dodging, using what cache he had at the time to help
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 09:21 AM by blm
Bill. Not to mention the years of uncovering IranContra and BCCI operations of GHWBush would helped break public trust in Pres. Bush in the first place - throughout 92 there were gawdawful headlines for Bush over his newly discovered involvements in those illegal operations.

How did Bill reciprocate in 2004 - by using his 3 week book tour to repeatedly defend Bush2 on the very Iraq war decisions that Kerry was attacking at the time.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. In 1992, Kerry was
48 years old, in the Senate seven years, and had already had the BCCI and IranContra investigation under his belt.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. HRC is morphing into Nixon
In his role as surrogate for Obama, Kerry has done a better job making the case against McCain than anyone I can think of - and every time he has consistently included HRC in his defense - when her position is the same as Obama - on Iraq or global warming. That she and her supporters are attacking Kerry and even his family is pathetic.

I am shocked that after "Hey John", the negative behind the scenes attacks when he led the Alito filibuster and the way the Clintonites vilified him over Kerry/Feingold - now close to the standard Democratic postition - even though you would never hear HRC credit him with having anything to with it, or on S-CHIP, or on her position (and even words) on alternative energy. If I were Kerry, I would have ruled it out a few weeks after the loss when her husband congratulated Rove on a good campaign. There was also the whisper campaign that was designed to suggest that he was usurping Reid's role if he expected to be considered a Democratic leader at all.

What is clear is that after how they treated him they were expecting to get him just through intimidation and threats. I'm glad he rejected that kind of behavior.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exactly!
Can anyone defend her questioning Obama's patriotism and claiming that he is linked to terrorists?



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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I guess that HRC doesn't realize that if she's the nominee
they will question hers. Kerry's patriotism is indisputable compared to hers - and it was questioned.

They will bring up all the Bill and Hillary Clinton stuff from the late 1960s. Clearly there are Republican women who were Wellesley graduates who will be able to speak of HRC protesting - in fact she was prominent enough there could be pictures. The idea that this would happen is increased when she signals that the attacks on Obama were ok.

Yet I bet I know who one of her strongest defenders would be - even if he was still the top of her enemies list.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. She doesn't care, which is why I suppose
Bill is back to race baiting.

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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
:thumbsup:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hill and Bill's only loyalty is to themselves.
Not to each other but jointly in their desperate power grab.

It is laughable to hear them question Obama's patriotism.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Exactly. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'd add that they are very solicitous of the Bushes and their privilege, too.
So they DO look out for others - as long as they are BFEE approved 'others' like those IranContra and BCCI figures protected throughout the 90s by Clintons.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Like:
Mark Penn and Blackwater
James Carville and Scooter Libby
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. Clinton: 'Kitchen'
Video here: Clinton: 'Kitchen'
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe KO will ask Hillary about the enemies list. n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Harsh Hillary Robocall Accuses Obama Of Lying About His Position On Second Amendment

Harsh Hillary Robocall Accuses Obama Of Lying About His Position On Second Amendment

By Greg Sargent - April 21, 2008, 5:47PM

I've just obtained audio of a harsh new robocall the Hillary campaign is pumping into Pennsylvania -- it directly accuses Obama twice of lying about his position on the Second Amendment, and says explicitly that it's an issue that John McCain will use against him in November.

Give it a listen...

<...>

The Hillary campaign confirmed that the call was theirs, but I was unable to determine where in Pennsylvania the call is being made.

The assertion that McCain could use this against Obama in November dovetails with the larger "values" and "electability" argument the Hillary campaign has been making in the wake of Obama's "small town" comments -- that his positions on guns and other matters render him incapable of winning over the blue collar whites that defected from John Kerry in 2004. This robocall adds the extra charge that Obama has been falsifying his positions on the core gun questions.


Who appointed Hillary to vet Obama for the Republicans?

Still, it was Hillary who voted no and Obama who yes on the following legislation:

"To prohibit the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal or State law."

Roll Call

Published on Friday, June 18, 2006] by Reuters

Senate Votes to Bar Emergency Gun Confiscation

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Senate on Thursday voted to prohibit the confiscation of legally owned guns during an emergency like last year's Hurricane Katrina, marking another victory for the gun lobby.

By a vote of 84-16, the Senate embraced an amendment by Sen. David Vitter, a Louisiana Republican. He attached his measure to a domestic security spending bill for the fiscal year starting October 1 that the Senate is expected to pass soon.

The U.S. House of Representatives has passed its version of the spending bill and negotiators will have to decide whether to keep the gun provision. The House is usually sympathetic to gun owners.



TA man carries a shotgun as he surveys damage to his neighborhood
in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in Metairie, outside New Orleans
September 5, 2005. The U.S. Senate on Thursday voted to prohibit the
confiscation of legally owned guns during an emergency like last year's
Hurricane Katrina, marking another victory for the gun lobby.
REUTERS/Lee Celano


Citing the constitutional right to bear arms, Vitter said that during an emergency people should be allowed to hold onto "legally possessed firearms to defend your life, your property" at a time when telephone lines and cell phones probably are not operating and victims "can't reach out to law enforcement authorities."

more



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hillary on KO cheering on McCain as she claims she never cheered on McCain.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 07:25 PM by ProSense
Says Bush is the worse president.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hillary campaign's new friend: Fox Noise
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 06:09 PM by ProSense
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. Looks like Hillary isn't making any friends on the international stage
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 03:16 PM by ProSense
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
:kick:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-25-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. Krugman strikes again
Edited on Fri Apr-25-08 08:18 AM by ProSense
Self-Inflicted Confusion

Idiotic logic to excuse Hillary Rovian tactics: Hillary's smear are not as bad as the Republicans' will be.


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-25-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. Being nasty isn't working out for Hillary
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-25-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. K & R
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