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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:55 PM
Original message
The Blonde Leading the Blind
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 09:14 PM by NanceGreggs
Perhaps it is a testament to the Hillary campaign and its supporters that while their so-called reasoning stands on shakier ground with every passing day, it continues – albeit tenuously – to survive at all.

They persist in adapting to new goalpost positions that literally change by the hour, have developed some kind of new math by which losses are calculated as gains, and continue to steadfastly ignore the inconvenient truths that spell defeat in letters so large they can be seen from the nearest asteroid belt.

Although there are many to choose from, my favorite line from the Hillary camp is that she would fare better than Obama in going up against the inevitable GOP slime machine in the general election because she has already been fully vetted, and there is nothing new the Republicans could dredge up against her.

This line of thinking completely ignores the fact that the GOP have been preparing themselves for a Hillary candidacy for years, and have had more than ample time to perfect their mode of attacks – notwithstanding the fact that they have never allowed the truth to stand in the way of their swiftboating operations in any event. Whatever isn’t there will be craftily created, and what is there – no matter how distantly in the past it occurred – will be resurrected with a vengeance.

As for there being nothing new that Ms. Fully-Vetted can be hammered with, one need only look to Hillary’s behavior over the past few months.

The lady herself has declared that McCain is a more qualified candidate for POTUS than her fellow Democrat, her campaign is an exercise in fiscal irresponsibility and a complete inability to plan ahead for unforeseen events (like Obama taking the lead, or Super Tuesday not being a wrap-up of her inevitable nomination), and one can only – sadly and horrifyingly – imagine what hay would be made of her blatant lies about her wartime Bosnian sniper-fire experience by a party running a former POW as its nominee.

To hear the Hillary supporters tell it, while an Obama nomination would unleash the wild dogs of contrivance, innuendo, and out-and-out lies about every statement he has ever made, every action he has ever taken, every experience he has ever had, these same dogs would, if faced with Hillary as a nominee, simply slink off to their cages, tails tucked firmly between their legs, whimpering that there was nothing to be said against her.

But there is a far more disturbing aspect to what some of the Hillary campers cling to in their darkest hour, and that is the idea that the super-delegates will – and should – overturn the will of the people in order to install their candidate-of-choice as the nominee.

I have seen the SDs variously described by some Hillary supporters as the grown-ups who will step in to save the ignorant Democratic voters from themselves, the level-headed adults who will not allow “childish enthusiasm” for Obama to prevail, a group of real powers-that-be that will swiftly move into the position of omnipotent deciders ready to determine the course of the Democratic Party regardless of the will of the majority of its constituents.

What is truly abhorrent about this stance is the deja-vu-all-over-again memory of another group of “deciders” – namely the Supreme Court – who once determined that a few adults (themselves) should step into the fray and “save” an immature and ignorant nation from elevating the “wrong” person to the presidency. I think we all know how that turned out.

And yet this same kind of complete disposal of the democratic process is now an avenue that some Hillary campers wholeheartedly embrace if it means having their candidate installed as the nominee – the same end justifies the means argument they eschewed a scant few years ago when it resulted in a G.W. Bush presidency.

What is truly puzzling about this concept that the super-delegates will ignore the will of the people in order to anoint Hillary is the lack of proffering any concrete motivation for their doing so.

Obama has undeniably caused a surge in new registrants for the Party, and his ability to raise funds among the populace is becoming the stuff of legend. And yet there has been no explanation from the Hill supporters as to why the SDs would ignore those incredibly desirable abilities in order to ensure Hill’s nomination – not to mention that it would for many SDs, should they choose to ignore the will of their own constituents, be at the cost of their own careers as they face re-election in future.

In addition, there is the never-ending whining from some in the Hillary camp that sexism is to blame for their candidate’s inability to secure the nomination, a factor which – according to them – is all-pervasive and clouds the more reasoned perception of the voters-at-large. I have yet to hear any explanation as to how this insidious sexism would somehow be absent among the SDs, who they are now counting on to “save” their candidate from the chopping-block.

Perhaps, like so many other aspects of the “reasoning” of Hillary supporters, this too is of no consequence in the end-game, where charges of blatant sexism will be dropped as is convenient, along with every other excuse for their candidate’s inability to garner the votes that were somehow not forthcoming but still rightfully hers.

This primary process has been fraught with unexpected victories along with unforeseen defeats. It has turned Democrat against Democrat, and has led to anger among the faithful that used to be reserved for those on the other side of the aisle.

But what is truly tragic is seeing the same kind of rhetoric that was once solely owned by the Republicans being used by so-called Democrats against their fellow party members: You’re either with Hillary or against Hillary – and if you are against her, we, her supporters, will take the entire party, and the democratic process, down without hesitation rather than accept defeat.

It is said that there are none so blind as those who will not see. In the present circumstances, I would go a step further to say that there are none so sightless as those obstinate enough to pluck their own eyes out, in a vain attempt to prove that their ignorant vision should be blindly accepted by those who see the more-than-obvious truth in all of its undeniable clarity.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nah, she hasn't been fully
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 09:00 PM by zidzi
vetted..she's has a whole boat load of new lies since this campaign to be vetted.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. Not since Hill's buddy Richard Mellon Sciafe pulled the plug on his smear machine in '99.
NGU.


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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
211. I find Obama to be petty, whiny, vindictive and negative..
see www.attacktimeline.com
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #211
231. Wow, those are some attacks!
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:43 PM by FatDave
Obama accuses Hillary of 'being part of business-as-usual in Washington.' (Feb 15)

Obama says 'Senator Clinton represents the same way of doing business.' (Mar 12)

Obama campaign suggests that Hillary's 'claims of foreign policy experience are exaggerated.' (Mar 11)

Oh...your...god...how...dare...he...?

:rofl:

(edit because I can't spell "rofl")
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #211
239. Frankly, I'm amazed you can 'find' the keyboard in front of you.
Much less that which doesn't exist.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
257. The Corporations Cannot Afford to Let Hillary Lose
They have worked very hard to insinuate their way into the Government, and by golly, if Obama wins then they are totally screwed.

Since Corporations are not accountable to Truth or Democracy, they are free to use whatever means they can to win. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense to the real people that have brains, so that's why Hillary is finished.

Hillary's supporters are not real people, they are the hundreds of Corporate drones whose livliehood depends on maintaining the status quo of back room politics, perpetual war, Corporate welfare and Lobbies Lobbies Lobbies!

As far as vetted, I recently saw the vigorously discredited "Clinton Chronicles" on YouTube the other day. Now that nearly 30 years have passed since the chronology of corruption of the Arkansas government and Judicial branch, one has to put those allegations into perspective of what G.W. Bush has put Americans through in the last 8 years. In my opinion, a lot of the allegations laid out against Bill Clinton were enhanced and taken to the full extent by the Bush administration. The similarities are a little too disturbing for me to ignore.

Time to sweep these non-humans out the door into the rain.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hate to nitpick, but I believe she should be addressed as:
Senator Fully-Vetted.

As a sign of the respect she very much deserves, and all.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Hey! What have you got against the OP???
No... nevermind... that'd be TMI. :silly:
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
74. TahitiNut, LOL!
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 11:33 PM by Radio_Lady
:rofl:




"When I was young, I admired clever people. As I grew old, I came to admire kind people."
-Abraham Joshua Heschel
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. The incessant moving of goalposts should be a clue to her most ardent supporters.
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
62. Her supporters adopt each new goalpost as their new talisman of sad, sad hope. (nt)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #62
106. plus they're a pain in the arse to pack up and move each time
:D

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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #62
170. First, it was Hope and Unity.
Then it was "the higher ground" and "new politics."

Now it's "Get the bitch and her stupid followers."

Yep, no moving goalposts here!
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #170
183. Don't put quotes around the voices in your head.
They aren't actual authorities.

Unless of course that gets in the way of your martyr complex...
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #183
215. Hah! Way to go! Thanks for that!I
I'm not a hatah...at least I didn't start out as one...but I'm repulsed by those supporters who continue to characterize any critique of her--or simply support for Obama--as sexism. There is no other reason for the "bitch" comment you so ably smacked down. I bet these same people would freak the funk if you accused them of being racists for supporting Hill over Obama.
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jettison Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #170
253. No
You're mistaking the idea of "moving the goal posts" which refers to the way in which a candidate should win an election with a candidate's supporters just being fedup by the inability of Hillary supporters to understand that these goal posts keep getting moved.

That said, anyone that says "the bitch" or "stupid followers" is well out of line.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #170
254. It's REPUBLICANS who use the "b word", not Obama supporters.
n/t.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yet another sizzler of a post, but in addition to being extremely
well-written, it serves as a landmark analysis of events.

This is true whether you are supporting Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton.

I recommend to DU readers that they save this post, convert it to a Word document in your computer files, and then return to it in a year's time. My guess is that you will find many of its points to be prescient and its analysis clearly competitive with the very best analysis of the 2008 primary season from any source.

Recommended emphatically, and for keeps.

Bravo, Nance.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. OK, I've saved it.

Partly for comparison, as you suggested, and partly because it's the most elegantly worded put-down in my six plus decades... :cry:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hi, JohnnyLib2. I have a Nance file of her very best stuff, although just
about any of her posts meet that criterion.

I think next spring and summer, her observations and insights here are going to be very resonant.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Can Truth be told?
Yes it can! :patriot:

You did it!


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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. This cartoon would make an excellent campaign billboard
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 09:10 PM by Divernan
Cause each of these problems/issues is just going to get worse between now and the November election.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. .
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Another keeper
Well done, Nancy.

:applause:
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sakura Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I am awed by your magnificence.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Noticing sexism is "whining."
But we agree, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. When it is used as an excuse ...
... for lack of votes, yes, it is whining.

But please feel free to explain to me, yet again, how independent, free-thinking women who refuse to support Hillary's candidacy simply based on gender, putting aside all other considerations, are under-the-thumb of male supremacy.

It's a story I so love to hear!
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
84. Brava, Nance.
Sign me,

Another older Hispanic woman for Obama.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
141. "Used as an excuse for lack of votes..."
Which votes? The ones in Michigan and Florida? They're missing because of Obama clout. I don't put those down to direct sexism.

But please let me know when you find a woman candidate you will work for and support for the presidency of the United States. They can't all be monsters, can they?

And, of course, they're not. Until the second they dare to forget their place and run for president.

I know it must be painful that Obama, with all his YOUTHFUL, MALE wonderfulness, hasn't been declared the Democratic candidate yet. Could it be because of a lack of votes?

You've been played like a violin in a well-rehearsed Mozart symphony...and you think you're hearing jazz
riffs.

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #141
144. I never imagined that you of all people would post something like this.
You ought to know better. If a smart poster like you has resorted to this empty, angry rhetoric, it's no wonder Senator Clinton is losing.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #141
148. The votes in FL and MI?
The ones that Hillary pledged "wouldn't count" - until she realized she needed them?

It should go without saying - but obviously, you need it to be said - that the fact that some women do not support Hill's candidacy has nothing to do with her gender. I'm also a Jew - that doesn't automatically put me in the "Lieberman for President" camp.

And BTW, I HATE jazz - yours included.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #148
203. I HATE jazz
I was with you until this....

Jazz is not my 1st musical choice, but to HATE it in all caps.... it worries me.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #148
256. Well, I LOVE jazz
and I love your posts in this thread! And elsewhere. (Too bad about the jazz.)

The Clintonians' goalpost-moving, prevaricating, and earth-scorching are tiresome and toxic. I'm really looking forward to them a) losing the race for the Dem nomination, b) taking a couple of days to get over it, and c) joining us to surge behind Obama to defeat McCain and the Republicans in November.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #256
283. Kenny Clarke fan?
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #283
287. Him and about a million other guys
Also a huge Miles Davis fan (Steamin, Cookin, Relaxin, and many many more!).
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #287
288. Steamin' is my avatar.
<----
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #288
298. I noticed.
That's why I referred to it. ;) I'll look for you in the Music Appreciation forum. :toast:
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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #141
159. The Hillary camp (and possibly you)
are seeing sexism where none really exists. She needs some excuse, and sexism foots the bill.

Nancy layed out her case very well - she and the other women who are for Obama wouldn't mind, (and not to put words in her mouth) probably would celebrate a woman president.

It is not Hillary's sex that is the problem, it is her as a person. Her arrogance that she was the inevitable candidate and we should just crown her now was just the start. It has gone downhill from there.

So quit using sexism as an excuse for all the screwups she has done. You are demeaning those women who really are the victims of sexism, and you will lose them too.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #141
181. I think you and those who cry sexism have it all wrong.
It's not that we won't vote for a woman candidate for President... it's that we won't vote for this one.

This one is a pandering, lying, Republican in disguise and the last thing we need is someone as removed from the truth and reality as Bush was to continue as Commander in Chief.

Not to mention that while most of us were fooled by the short term positives of the Clinton economy, retrospect gives us the better view of how the Clintons just set the table for the corporate takeover of America. It just required a neo-con ballsy and dumb enough to push the Clinton policies ever so slightly further to make our government nothing more than a tool for the corporate elite to get richer while those middle class that Hillary said Bill should do nothing for saw their economic statuses plummet into poverty levels.

Rp
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Psst_Im_Not_Here Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #181
208. Exactly.
Not this woman.
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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #141
272. Oh, please...
So, if you don't support Senator Clinton, it follows that you consider any and all women candidates to be monsters?

Dramatic, much?

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
184. Under the thumb of male supremacy....
Mr PipiK would also love to hear that story.


In fact, he'd probably laugh himself silly at the thought that I, a rather opinionated 50-something woman, could possibly allow any man to tell me what to do or how to think. :rofl:


Hillary could be a blond haired, blue eyed man and I still wouldn't like her him.


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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
232. I don't understand the "sexism" charges either, Nance.
It seems to me the progressive base (you know, the "far left wing" of the Democratic Party--that's us) is using the SAME yardstick they'd use for a male candidate who kept plugging his Republican opponent at the expense of his Democratic challenger. The nearest male equivalent I can think of is Joe Lieberman--you know, FORMER Democrat, turncoat and traitor Joe Lieberman who we all love SOOOO much! :sarcasm:

So Hillary is being held to the same standard as Joe Lieberman...so where's the beef? Where's the sexism?
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peoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Your title is perfect.
"Let those who have eyes, see and those who have ears, hear"

I have often found myself repeating those words throughout this campaign.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R....Awesome post, Nance -
Again with clarity, brevity and without artifice, the truth.

Bravo.

:patriot:
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Is there a greater irony
than a self-proclaimed "visionary" like you Nance, being as blind as you are to the frantic and frenetic methods you employ to nullify HRC, and/or her supporters.

I think it is high time you peer into the politics of your candidate. It isn't so pretty. Start by telling this Edwards supporter why Obama followers are so aggressively divisive, when their candidate claims to be a "Uniter".

Can you do that Nance? Hmmm?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Ah, the same old/same old meme from the Hillary camp ...
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 09:56 PM by NanceGreggs
... "We don't support Obama, so how can he be a uniter?"

It's like saying that as long as the Flat Earth Society exists, no one can declare that the earth is round.

(Edited to add: I hope you can provide a link to a post where I "proclaimed" myself as "a visionary".

This comes as LBN to me ...
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Wait... the earth is ROUND?! O Jesus. This is big news!
Nance, don't be distracted by the snarkgoblins. When they're afoot, it likely suggests you've told the truth.

Which in fact you have.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. pls see 21 below
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Obama reports $ 51 million on hand, plans a one minute fund drive tomorrow
and Clinton supporters start a prayer thread.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
273. Besides the prayer thread they'll need a collection plate...
to pay off all of her debts.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
193. Wow, I didn't know Hillary was spelled E-D-W-A-R-D-S
Ya learn something new every day here. :crazy:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. The OP can write and think blue rings around nearly anyone here.
True in this particular post as well.

Your attack on a talented writer is untoward, and cerainly unworthy of any "cleric."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Yes there is a greater irony
it is that you proclaim your great prowess of logic and then never display any:

If a stubborn recalcitrant irrational person says that there is no harmony because "I refuse to be harmonious therefore your leader isn't harmonious"

it is the same as if

you approach a doctor, stab yourself in the thigh and then say "If your such a good doctor why am I bleeding?"
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Great response!!!
:yourock:


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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. LOL!
:rofl:
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. FINALLY someone hits the nail on the head!
It's something I've noticed in post after post from the good "cleric". The self-appointed, seemingly only person of "logic" on this board, from whom I've never seen a bit of logic.

'Tis a great irony, indeed!
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #56
209. Gawd .. Can you imagine if he really is some sort of minister or official religious figure?
Mommy! :scared:
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #209
217. I think on the internets one can get a certificate...
for just about anything, these days. Just sayin'.........

I've learned from his always "I'm the only one here who knows anything at all" posts, that he's other things as well, although I can't remember what they are - all impressive, of course. It's comforting to know that you can be anything on the internets - I may just go become a cleric myself!
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #217
218. Oooh. I'll bet he's a pilot! And a cowboy! And a supermodel!
Or, maybe, like George Costanza, he tells people he's an architect or a marine biologist.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #218
230. Well, as one supermodel to another (I can just tell)
I'm thinking along the lines of lawyer or professor or something like that, and if I honestly cared what he said, I'd do a search, but I learned long ago that big words and constant reprimands to the rest of us "peons", do not make a "cleric" logical, or even intelligent.

Some people just like to hear themselves type, and become very prolific when they discover DU, but that doesn't necessarily mean they SAY anything - or anything worthwhile, at least.

Oops - I'm late for a shoot!
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #209
241. *snicker!* n/t
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
125. Once again
an absolutely awful analogy and lame comparison, drawn only for effect. What a surprise.....not!

First, I'm not a stubborn, recalcitrant, irrational person, refusing to be harmonious. Rather, I'm a thinking individual refusing to surrender my mind to a body politic. Also, all the Hillary supporters in the world, whom you would love to label as inharmonious, don't lose their claim IF Obama is in fact not a Uniter.

Watching his fractious minions here, you can clearly see that the great Uniter, doesn't unite, does he?

If you can't see that, stop drinking the Kool-Aid cultist.

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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #125
198. Your flowery eloquence isn't enough to disguise
your shitty rhetoric.

You've produced no logical argument why a thinking person can't simply support Obama as the best available candidate. You also can't avoid the fact that he has assembled a better movement behind him than any other candidate currently running.

Obama uses unifying rhetoric and ground up campaign tactics, therefore he is a uniter. He doesn't need to meet some ridiculous standard you've concocted, and the behavior of some of his followers on this board is an entirely separate issue.

Your pathetically reasoned name calling should be embarrassing to you, as should a point by point comparison of the different campaigns on unifying properties.
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
297. good analogy
You made me smile.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Use a broad brush much?
So, you find some supporters divisive, therefore the candidate is?

Surely, you might be able to note the glaring logical error in that kind of thinking.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. you're far too measured
and rational in your comments - we cannot have that on GD-P, shame on you nance, shame... on... you!

ha...
loved it!
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. BWAHAHA!
Best title ever!!

:rofl:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Blind, " "whining," "so-called Democrats," "sightless," "obstinate," "ignorant"...
I think you make several valid points that would be better without the attacks on Clinton's supporters here.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
80. I tend to agree. There are still those of use who are maintaining a more measured view.
Will Nance and JeffR be able to get behind whichever candidate is chosen? I hope so, because it's very important that we do.

Thom Hartman said it best on one of his shows last week. He is not divulging his individual choices in this primary.

I think he has maintained possibly the best position of all the progressive talk show hosts. As a former broadcaster who did NOT divulge her choice, I have a lot of training to do the same. This was demanded by CBS when I worked for them, but that was a long time ago.

Believe it or not, this is still a very difficult choice for both me, my husband, and the adult members of my immediate family. We know that Oregon will go blue, but not sure exactly how. We do not get our primary ballots much before the May 20th mail-in deadline.

Cordially,

Radio Lady Ellen and Audio Al (who is an elected Democratic committeeperson for Washington, County, Oregon)

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #80
135. Ellen, my choice and Nance's choice of candidate only coincided
a few weeks ago. She's backed Obama from the outset, pretty much, and I haven't, though I'm increasingly impressed with how he does in the full (and superficial) media scrutiny being brought to bear now. I can't speak for Nancy, but I'd vote for a three-legged crocodile if that's what the party ends up nominating. Fortunately, of couse, we'll nominate a candidate better than that, whoever we nominate. And we'll beat the GOP in November.

Why on earth would you assume that Nancy would vote for anyone other than the Democratic candidate come November? Or me, for that matter? That's a little confusing.

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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #135
142. Don't know you that well. Just asked the question that someone else asked of me a while ago.
Have a good week, you two.

Peace, love and happiness,

Ellen
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Oh, dear. I just realized I never read the DUzy page this weekend!
Darn. I have to go back to that tomorrow.

Then, the two of us have to have our hearing tested at 2:30 PM and 3:15 PM Monday afternoon. How much fun can we cram into one day?

WHAT DID YOU SAY?????

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #142
145. And to you n/t
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #80
165. Is it measured by the shot glass or by the bottle?
I have no idea what you are waiting for, but the horses have left the barn already.
The Kentucky Derby is in a few weekends.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
200. It's tradition with this "unity" poser.
Poster. I meant "unity" poster.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Bravo! K and R
We The People


Barack Obama/44


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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. Well stated
It made sense to me. :)
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graycem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. Right on!
Nice to see you take all the arguments and condense them all in one place. Maybe everytime we disagree with someone on the sexism, delegate count, electability, blah-blah issues, we can just point them back to this post, as you address it all with remarkable common sense. Great job Nance. :)
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Thanks, graycem ...
... and welcome aboard the Good Ship DU, matey!

:hi:
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R, and bookmarked.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. Nailed it!
It always boggles my mind when the more "earnest" of the Hilary supporters call people names, tell lies about Barack, say his supporters are "cultists" or "blind", and yet they can't see that they are doing those very things.

Seems to me I learned something about that in Psych 101. It's called PROJECTION.

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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. I resent being told, as a 41yo woman
that someone needs to save me from myself, because I am too ignorant to research and decide who to vote for.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. The sad attack of sexism being used as a hedge issue when
this country and world is facing problems that if not solve soon, could
effect our children's children not just their future but their very lives is morally disturbing.

Thanks for the great writing and rant.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Like sexism, racism ceases to exist.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. It won't cease to exist if you elect Hillary or Obama
Don't you get that?



But, if you want to go backwards vote McCain
at least with a Democratic candidate you know we are moving forward
on both of those issues.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R and this is why I can't support clinton... she's a hypocrite. She...
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 10:11 PM by demdog78
derided these attacks when they were pointed at her and now she's adopted them and those that didn't like it when the republicans did this to her are embracing her for doing the same thing.

Dems didn't like this war. They rejected the Republicans for launching it. She voted for this war along with them. Many of those very vocal anti-war activists now support her.

NAFTA - The ones who suffered under her, now support her.

Iran war trumpets - She went right along with the Republicans for what could be an introduction of war against Iran based on Bush saber-rattling.

Bankruptcy - again people who are in debt, poor see her vote for this bill and turn around and support her.

I feel like I'm looking at Bush supporters who have misled and continue to be misled, like sheep to their slaughter. If she so easily uses Republican tactics to gain the nomination then what makes anyone think she won't adopt other traits and tactics of the Republican party?

Your post is insightful and dead on.

Thank you.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
40. Breathtaking in it's blatant usage of stereotype. Alarming how unashamedly
the color of a woman's hair is used as a smack down. Equating a woman's blonde hair with the

inability to see (metaphorically), with "dumb as a blonde" is not only sexist, but coming

from a woman helps to reinforce the negative imagery that the patriarchy uses to hold all

women in bondage.

Shame.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. You missed the point of the post. It's her deeds. Stop using "sexist" at every turn...please.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Mentioning the color of her hair is a "smackdown"?
Yeah, okay, whatever.

But I do feel compelled to ask about the negative imagery that the patriarchy uses to hold all women in bondage. Is that anything like the "imagery" that declares that all women, regardless of who they think is the best nominee, should unquestioningly support the candidate of their own gender?

Just wonderin' .. :shrug:
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
103. Nancy, Hillary Clinton might have as much as 100% gray hair!!
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:33 AM by Radio_Lady
I'm writing this from the perspective of a woman who has had a couple of careers. I've been on TV as a children's show host and in radio as a talk show host (on and off from 1957 through 2008). I also was a technical representative of Clairol's Personal Products Division (haircolor and hair care experience learned through the company) out of NYC and Stamford, CT. (1983-1992)

Blondes are made out of brunettes who have gray hair. It's easy to do. Lift the melanin out of the pigmented hairs with bleach, and at the same time, or later on -- deposit yellow pigment color on the gray and -- CARAMBA! Think of Barbara Walters. She was a level 3 medium brown hair when she was younger. I worked around the corner from her at NBC. She now has -- blonde hair. Same story.

Hillary is 60 years old. She was born on October 26, 1947. Hillary was a brunette (medium brown -- level #3) as a young woman. But what is not revealed is that the society as a whole thinks that blonde hair on a woman means she is DUMB! How did things get that way? I don't really know. But the caricature goes WAY BACK in both film and television. Blondes were -- and are -- considered intellectually challenged. People used to call my radio program and tell me that I "sounded like a blonde." I was never able to quantify that comment except as a put-down.

Of course, there was that advertising slogan that "blondes have more fun." Also, the one that asks, "Does she or doesn't she?" That was Clairol and it was successful. Well, to be sure -- HILLARY DOES. She also has had skillful plastic surgery.

Your original post has a clever title... however, it is quite slanted in my opinion. By the way, I work with the blind, too! So I could take offense on a couple of levels.

No worries. Just sayin' -- On edit: I know you are living in Canada, but you have already voted based on your New York residency.

For many of us, we're still waiting for our primary ballots. It has been a long wait.

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #103
109. I am an American citizen ...
... not a Canadian-American. I am a registered voter in New York State, where I was born and raised - and that doesn't equate to "some kind of US residency".

But thanks for askin' ...
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. Sorry. I've edited my post to explain your status more precisely.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:35 AM by Radio_Lady
Thanks and good night.

Ellen

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #103
167. Yet there is another level to blondness you don't talk about
Yes, blonds are proverbally considered "dumb"--but I recall from the 50s on that they were also considered very sexy and very desirable. In fact, that was the "perfect package" brought forth for women to emulate-the only desirable woman was a dumb one, because women of intelligence are a threat to male egos.

As for blindness-I've been around it all my life, from childhood friends who were blind to relatives who were blind. Interestingly enough, I've found that some of these people have more insight than sighted folks.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #167
222. Great quote. "Blind people have more insight than sighted folks."
"Blondes are more sexy and desirable..."

It's another regrettable adage, and I don't believe it's meant for Hillary in this instance.

So, is Hillary "hot"?

Blondes of the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s

These ones I remember:
Carole Lombard (goes way back)
Jayne Mansfield
Marilyn Monroe
Betty Grable

Do you recall others? Feel free to add to the list.

Thanks for your comments.

Radio Lady in Oregon
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #103
202. And may I add; making light hair (either blonde or gray) convincing dark
is nearly impossible. I'm a natural blonde and I'm sick to death of the stereotype. I managed to color my hair red for a few years (before it nearly fell out from all the touch ups required), and the change in the way I was treated because of something as superficial as HAIR COLOR was very noticeable. I would LOVE to have darker hair again, but short of a wig, that'll never happen. :-(
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #47
147. Of course not, people should make their own decisions using their own criteria.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Ever wonder how well it would go over if it was titled:
The black leading the blind?

He has done nothing, achieved nothing, stands for nothing, has never taken any political risk, and yet is perceived by his followers as some sort of genius. Maybe because of that he is.

All his "great speeches" are nothing more than oratory skill learned from Wright. Separate the words from the delivery and they are nothing more than vaporware. Why are these people fooled? Are they victims? No, they voluntarily suspend political judgement for a feel good movement of a moment. It looks like they will pull off the nomination, then demand the rest of us follow like it or not. As if it is owed.

Well just as Nance says, being a woman does not mean you have to vote for the woman if you don't think they are the best candidate, the same can be said for the party nominee.

I know America will not elect a "blank screen" nor should they.


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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Ever wonder why ...
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 10:40 PM by NanceGreggs
... your saying "(Obama) has done nothing, achieved nothing, stands for nothing, has never taken any political risk" doesn't make it a fact, no matter how many times you say it?

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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. You're right, and no one would do that because there is a part of most
people's brains that knows instinctively that that is wrong. Apparently for some

that portion is non-functioning when it comes to females.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. So now women who don't support Hillary ...
... are simply victims of "the non-functioning portions of female brains".

Thanks for the info!

:hi:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Where do you see that implication?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. I guess I kinda saw it in your POST. n/t
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. That's right, it's not there.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #71
194. Blind blowhard leading the blind.
:boring:
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
77. She said the blonde not the white...
The problem is the racism - I really have no tolerance for racism no matter how discreet. The Clintons have been playing the race card very discreetly. And yet very obviously.

Hillary by the way is more a "dirty blonde" and we aren't necessarily talking about the Clairol.

Barack Obama speaks from many sources. He is like a bridge. To the future.

Hillary Clinton speaks from one source. That source can be found in the financial disclosures, if you want to call them that. She is like a bridge also. To the past.

She is a return to the Bush dynasty. Which her husband served. And which she will serve.

Her and Nancy Pelosi and lots of other Republicrats who need to be bounced out of office in November.

She has destroyed the unity of her own party. And you still believe in her?

Thanks, but no thanks.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
87. no one would elect the straw man you just described.
Fortunately Obama is not the man you have described. So the argument goes out the window.

If you don't know what he's all about, you haven't been looking. And the first sentence of your post gives me a clue as to why that might be.
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
95. Good heavenly days....
1) You do realize that it's a play on words (and a pretty good one too), right? You know "Blind leading the blind", pretty old cliche. "Black leading the blind" isn't good wordplay; so, of course, it wouildn't go over as well. If you have something clever, go ahead and use it.

2) Is it unreasonable to expect Democrats (that is what folks on here are supposed to be) to support the Democratic nominee? At that point (when he is the nominee) we should assume that he has earned that much.

Do you truly feel that McCain would be a better President than Obama? If you really do, then perhaps you should vote for him. And perhaps go to a board that represents Republican ideals.

If, on a very longshot, Senator Clinton does get the nomination, I will support her. Can you, as a Democrat, say that you will support the Democratic candidate, whether it is your choice for the nomination or not?
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #95
111. Verges, my answer is decidedly "Yes." We are replacing the Worst President Ever.
Any living, breathing, engaged candidate with a "D" after his/her name -- will get my vote in the General Election.

Thanks for pointing out the eventual goal, if we're not too bloodied and bruised by this primary season.

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon
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mlevans Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #95
250. I think our governor, Ed Rendell, put it best
a couple weeks ago when he had come to our county's Dem HQ to speak on behalf of Senator Clinton (John Kerry was on hand to speak for Senator Obama). Rendell said he was giving us his gubernatorial mandate: not matter who we were supporting, if our candidate didn't win we were allowed to have ten days to be pissed off. On day eleven he expected us to unite behind the winning candidate. And just to set everybody a good example, he promised that if Clinton lost he'd only allow himself to be pissed for five days. That's what it's supposed to be all about, friends.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
72. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
88. Unbelievable, all the recommends and talk about blindly following somebody.
I think they saw the posters name and reacted just like they do with Obama.

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cbaker3122 Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #88
174. Yeah, ever try talking to a Scientologist?
It's the same kind of thing. They don't want to hear anything objective about their great Leader, who is perfect, a god, can do no wrong. And anyone who gets in His way is torn apart like a piece of raw meat among a pack of rabid wolves.

The only thing that amuses me about this particular cult is that its slogans are "change" "unity" and "a new kind of politics." Often I will see a post filled with the most hate-filled, cruel personal attacks, and then someone has put a big smiling picture of Obama at the bottom, or the slogan "unity" on an Obama '08 placard.

But that's ok. It is hard to see your own hypocrisy when you've had too much Kool Aid.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #174
259. bingo
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #72
129. Ah, yes ...
... I am a self-loathing, woman-hating hypocrite - that's why I've decided to support who I deem to be the best candidate, instead of being a Stepford Wife who only supports the candidate who sports similar genitalia.

Where I got such independent ideas is anyone's guess.

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cbaker3122 Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #129
171. Ah no....
Well, Nance, no, actually your self-loathing, woman-hating hypocrisy comes not in whom you chose to support, but in your public spewing of gallons of venom of personal, sexist, mean-spirited, below-the-belt attacks of his opponent, Hillary Clinton. All in the name of the "new kind of politics" and "unity" and "change."

So can you seriously claim your post is an article about whom you chose to SUPPORT or is it really about whom you chose to HATE and beat down with insults and cruelty?

And as far as being a Stepford Wife, you needn't worry dear, you are one. Only you're not in Stepford, you're in the front row screaming like a teenage girl at Obamacult rallies.

Good Stepford Wives always support their husbands no matter who they are or what they do.

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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #171
249. Good Stepford Wives always support their husbands
It's difficult for this 58 year old woman to see another woman labeled a 'stepford woman' for not supporting Hillary Clinton.

Like many Americans, my first impression of Sen. Clinton was gained from seeing her on television explaining that she wasn't "Tammy Wynnette standing by my man". It seemed bad enough that the prospective First Lady was dissing other women, and working class women at that. Later on, it seemed bad enough that she had lied and that 'standing by her man' no matter what he had done seems to be the defining principle of her life.

But what does seem bad enough is that other women must now be denigrated for supporting a different political candidate.
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ut oh Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #171
266. Wow....
It's called projection. Accuse your 'opponent' of doing the exact things you're are doing...

This is a perfect example of that...

You make a massive personal attack, then accuse the OP of 'spewing venom'...

And then you keep on doing it...

I understand Hillary supporters are feeling the pressure, but jeez...

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #72
139. Wow, you are such an insightful observer of people.
Thanks for sharing your startling clairvoyant insights with everyone.

One sentence I would have added to your post: "I'm a person who cannot read for comprehension, but I think what I think and God help anyone who doesn't think just the way I do."

I've thought about it a bit, and not only do I not think the way you do, I'm embarrassed for you.

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cbaker3122 Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #139
172. What was it I said?
To quote myself in my initial post:

"And watch the flood of cruel personal insults I'm going to get from Obama supporters from this post, all in the same service of 'change' and 'unity.'"

And sure enough, just as the sun rises, you come along with your nasty, hate-filled personal attacks aimed at me, a total stranger, all in support of your "new kind of politics."

I absolutely love you for proving my point!

Wanna throw any more personal insults my way in the name of "change" and "unity"?

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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
82. get real
:silly:
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
86. Right. Totally sexist.
Because blonde men never get stereotyped.

You = FAIL.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
197. Stereotyping...don't most of us do it
at one time or another?

OK, blondes are seen as being rather "slow". I've dyed my hair just about every color there is, and yes...people treated me way differently when I was blonde than when, for example, it was dark brown. Did I act differently? Who knows...I'm still me no matter what color my hair is/was.

Ageism as a stereotype...when I was young and slim and more attractive, I almost invariably got quite shabby treatment from other women...i.e. waitresses, store clerks, etc. And some interesting treatment/reactions from the men. Now I'm older...sporting a few extra pounds, past the "hot" stage...and women of all ages are a lot more kind to me. And men no longer stop and stare or do double takes anymore (I really miss that because it was so much fun, but that's life, I suppose).

The nerdy looking kids in school were perceived as being more intelligent than the "jocks" and cheerleaders, and even though we're all pretty much grown up now, what does it take but the addition of a pair of unattractive eyeglasses or a change of hairstyle to change our perceptions of someone from blonde ditz to intelligent academic type?

In any event, nearly all of us tend to stereotype, even if we're not aware of it...but what I wanted to point out, ultimately, is that anyone who thinks Hillary is stupid because she's a blonde just isn't going to "get it" anyway, you know?

Lost cause and not worth bothering with.

She's blonde, yes...but I think she was, and still is, a very intelligent human being.


Even though I don't like her much.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
41. the BITTER truth
thanks, Nance.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. My dear Nance...
My admiration knows no bounds...

Out of the park, once again!

Thank you!

K&R, natch...

:patriot:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
49. by your own reasoning -- obama used the most blatant
sexist and hate tactic by using donnie and the other gospell acts to introduce himself in south carolina.

then he never apologised for -- he defended donnie -- uses language in churches that talks about loving the sinner -- we all know what comes next.

his supporters never seem to be the least little bit bothered by crap like this"
"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force


so has the campaign acted in subtle -- yet noticeable ways -- things that can be called sexist towards hillary -- undoubtedly.

but the followers of obama continuously avoid scrutinizing claiming they want 'new', 'change', and all kinds of things that has the ring of hysteria -- mob speak.

obama is not a new human being -- sprung from the mind of zeus complete and whole -- there's nothing new about letting rezco tennants freeze without heat while he was a state senator.

obama is hollow -- but too many are too busy projecting their fantasies about candidate who doesn't exist.


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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #49
102. "his supporters never seem to be the least little bit bothered by crap like this"
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:20 AM by verges
I am an Obama supporter, and I am bothered by this. I'm just not as bothered by this as I am by:
1) changing the rules after Fl and MI. ie. cheating.
2) saying the Republican apparent nominee is more qualified than a potential Democratic nominee.
3) lieing about sniper fire in Bosnia, and allowing ones own young daughter to be exposed to a combat situation (if it WERE true).
4) The potential for having one or another of the two highest Executive branch offices held for 32-36 years by two families.



edited to add a puncuation mark.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. ".... there are none so sightless as those obstinate enough to pluck their own eyes out, ....
... in a vain attempt to prove that their ignorant vision should be blindly accepted by those who see the more-than-obvious truth in all of its undeniable clarity."

Just wow! You are good all of the time, but that sentence should be widely read and remembered.

Peace,
Bob

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DarienComp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
51. You are truly a pleasure to read.
Thanks.

:toast:
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
53. Why O Why do I keep getting: "Error, you already reccomended...
...that thread"? It happens all the time for me in NanceGreggs threads. It seems I can bookmark her threads only once as well!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
85. You need some sock-puppets, and a few more computers and connections.
They're "mother's little helpers".

But it's mostly campaigns that can afford that kind of an operation. Well, maybe not Clinton's. Not anymore.

By the way, I don't know what I'm talking about.

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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. ...but I giggled anyway eom
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
Thanks, very thorough.
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
55. Why, oh why, did you have to remind me
spot on, though, as always
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
58. I think your final paragraph speaks volumes as to how many
people view a lot of things in life. We see it with some supporters of both sides of the current morass, but it is far more obvious in the GOP, and in many other aspects of society as well.


"It is said that there are none so blind as those who will not see. In the present circumstances, I would go a step further to say that there are none so sightless as those obstinate enough to pluck their own eyes out, in a vain attempt to prove that their ignorant vision should be blindly accepted by those who see the more-than-obvious truth in all of its undeniable clarity."


Many years ago I realized that compromise is a good thing. I surely do not have all of the answers, and I've never met anyone who did. When people mistake obstinacy for passion, they cheat themselves of many of the good things in life. I think passion is a good thing as well...however, I for one, refuse to gouge out my eyes, shoot myself in the foot, or fall off the edge of a flat earth.

Here's what I want...a unified and dedicated Democratic party taking on the GOP and the neo-cons and beating them not only w/that castoff McCain, but in both Houses of Congress as well. Without control, we will accomplish nothing as a nation. I want to see bush's "mandates" removed from the books, I want the war to end, I want to see this nation taking care of it's own citizens and helping the world to get along through peaceful means. I want to see us return to a nation of Freedom and Dignity...if we do not come together and tackle the horror that has been bestowed upon us, the ramifications are to great to contemplate.

Sunshine Patriots need not apply, we're in this to win; it could be considered our Second Revolution, for if we lose this election, I believe we will be heading back to a form of "Royalty" and the wealthy landowners, the "Gentry", will gain control of this great nation of fantastic people and turn us into little more than a nation of "loyal minions" working for the elite.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
83. McCain and the GOP
building a bridge to the 18th Century. Their idea of traditional values is the feudal system.
The Second Revolution might start by throwing the electronic voting machines into the sea.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #83
224. What an intersting visual...
:D

The GOP wants us to return to the Dark Ages, a situation where they control every aspect of life...it ain't gonna happen...;)
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
59. Yawn
I'm so sick of your excellent posts. It's boring.
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lilyannerose Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
60. Well Said!
It's difficult to watch someone who I much admired adopt the message and use the methods that I loathe, and then to be told that my abhorrence of this behavior equates to sexism? If you ask me HRC has demonstrated the equality to use the Rove playbook, the same as any man, and she's managed to turn off the same people as Rove. It would appear that sexual equality is alive and well in this race.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Welcome to the discussion, lilyannerose ...
RE: "It would appear that sexual equality is alive and well in this race." WELL SAID!!!
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
63. As Dr. King so eloquently said:
“Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it.”

I've seen lots of hatred proudly trumpeted here.

Yes, from both sides.

Herman Hesse said something illuminating, as well.

“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us.”

I'm proud to be a delegate for the Senator from New York and I'm proud of the fact that I'm a life long Democrat who saw through Bush from the first moment I saw him in a debate. I don't hate him, because hatred is corrosive, as the saying goes, it's drinking poison hoping your enemy dies.

I've said very little negative about Sen. Obama in my humble effort to generally embrace the sentiment expressed in the quotes above. I'm not always successful, although I've done my best to recognize and respect his good qualities.

And, Chris Rock, who very much supports Sen. Obama has this to say about Sen. Clinton, in his recent Rolling Stone interview.

There's one thing Hillary Clinton's better at than everybody else, and one thing only — and that's forgiveness! Hillary Clinton is the greatest forgiver in the history of the world. Even Jesus knows: 'You really good at fo'giveness. I mean, I talk the talk, but you walk the walk!' " Excerpt From Issue 1049 — April 3, 2008


Love, forgiveness, eschewing hatred, seems like that's not the worst approach.

That's all.

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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
150. Thank you, BHP.

No question of plucked eyes on your part! :thumbsup:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
67. Thank you for yet another wonderful essay. K&R n/t
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
68. Blinded by your own anger and resentments...why?
First off I know many Hillary supporters who would vote for Barack if he became the nominee and none that feel..."...You’re either with Hillary or against Hillary – and if you are against her, we, her supporters, will take the entire party, and the democratic process, down without hesitation rather than accept defeat."
Second the super delegates aren't supposed to reflect "the will of the people" they are supposed to reflect the "democratic party", not independents or republican cross over voters.

Third the disaster of the Bush administration has brought voters out in droves to change the direction this country is headed in out of "Necessity" to save our democracy. Of course they are singing up as democrats as republicans are still supporting this Bush disaster. If Obama or Clinton were not even in this race this huge increase in democratic voters, especially young people who care and see what has happened to our nation would still be happening. They may favor Obama but it's certainly not the reason they are becoming involved. They are trying to stop the Bush regime from destroying our democracy with or without Obama, with or without Clinton, they feel the necessity of stopping this disaster before it's too late. Enough is enough. The privatization of our nation has got to stop before there is no more America only the USA corporation. Maybe Obama is the best we could come up with but he certainly isn't that progressive, even with national healthcare he still leaves the profiteers in place to guarantee some will still make money off our health.

Clinton is a politician running for president and will go until she is defeated and no it will not cause the ruin of our democratic party if she does so. I expect Obama will do the same. If Clinton hangs herself by acting like a republican toward Obama...then she hangs herself. Voters aren't stupid. No matter what, or who we nominate etc., no republican will win the WH this election except by stealing the election or canceling it altogether. No matter what the press tries to make us believe, the majority of Americans want this administration out, not replacing it with a clone.

Are you really that affected by what some Clinton campaign supporters are doing because your frustration is so out of character?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. My frustration, such as it is ...
... is that for some Hill supporters, defeating Obama as the nominee has surpassed the importance of defeating the GOP come November.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #70
192. That is the story of this primary season in one sentence.
Thank you another excellent OP also! :)
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #70
226. And that is the root of most of the problems, not just in GD-P...
but across the D Party.

Crucifying our own, (both sides are guilty of this), just to make a "point"...how sad.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #68
151. Thanks, BJOBotts.

Your first sentence speaks for me. Why that can't be generally believed is mysterious, hurtful, and alarming.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #68
154. You claim "many" Hillary supporters will vote for Obama
Please check through this site hillaryclintonforum.net and then ask yourself "how many of those Hillary supporters are telling the truth?"
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
73. Yuck
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Just the kind of intelligent ...
... well-reasoned, thoughtful response I've come to expect from certain quarters.

:rofl:
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
92. I don't know Nance, I'm still waiting for you to respond to me in that other thread
The one that you avoided like the plague after being outwitted :eyes:

Oh, here it is! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5542481#5542976

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #92
98. The day I get 'outwitted' by you, Lirwin2 ...
... is the same day I nail my brain to a wooden perch and declare its RIP state as merely a reflection of pining for the fjords.

Sometimes a non-response is a show of kindness ...

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. Maybe
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:23 AM by Lirwin2
But we both know that you most likely sat staring at your PC for an hour trying to figure out how you could defeat my argument, before realizing that you should probably stick to writing articles like this rather than trying to defend your position. Frankly, if you and I supported the same candidate, I would probably send you a PM asking you not to try to argue with anyone, because you usually end up making terrible arguments, and you hurt your candidate in the process.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #100
105. LBN, my friend ...
... the idea that I would sit and stare at my computer for an hour in order to come up with a reply to you is right smack-dab in the middle of :rofl: country.

You have a well-developed ego - and I am more than amused by its pretentiousness.

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #105
107. I don't think it's that hard to believe
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:30 AM by Lirwin2
You seem to waste a TON of time on "stuff" (that's my polite way of saying it) like this OP.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #107
113. I think you meant to say shit.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #113
115. That's one word for it
:rofl:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #107
116. A ton of time?
Not really. You'd be amazed at how quickly the obvious truth is transformed into an OP.

Try it sometime! :hi:
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. I managed to get through it, and can't seem to find a shred of truth or substance
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:36 AM by Lirwin2
I would re-read it, but I have better things to do. Like chewing on glass.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #119
120. And again I feel compelled to say ...
... that as expected, this is yet another intelligent, well thought-out response.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #120
123. I learned in the last thread that trying to have an intelligent debate with you is pointless
Stick to your rants.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #123
126. OP = Anyone But Clinton.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #123
133. What an amazing coincidence!
I learned eons ago that attempting to have an intelligent discussion with you was totally pointless.

I'm glad we can agree on something :hi:!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #133
220. did "ignored" say anything of value? no?
your valuable time is better spent, nance, although smacking down "ignored" is probably satisfying temporarily.

keep writing excellent posts like your OP.

I'm a big fan, even when (which is very rare) we disagree.

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #220
244. Y'know, you claimed to have put me on ignore a long time ago
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 01:26 PM by Lirwin2
Yet you responded to me in a post a mere 4 days ago. By the way, isn't it about time for you to start another "I'm leaving DU forever" thread? I haven't seen one of those from you in like over a week, which is a new record for you I believe.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #220
289. ignored never says much to me! (From one one-time monger of an ignored list to another...)
;-)

:hi:
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #98
140. Lirwin2?
Wow, the first member of my humble ignore list. Nice to know ol' Lirwin is still around.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #140
149. Not to be confused with ...
... "Lirwin1", who used to wow 'em back in the day!
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #98
294. Wow, NanceGreggs, what a great response from you! Some people
just do not understand. I love your posts
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. More like bla bla bla I'm so important, don't vote for Hillary bla bla bla
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
91. Knock off your rude crap before we call your parents in.
What in the fuck is wrong with you?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #93
104. Please, keep advocating for your candidate.
Take the floor...it's all yours.
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Joanie Baloney Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. You've outdone yourself this time, Lirwin!
This should get you a DUzy award for sure!

:sarcasm:

:puke:

Great post, Nance!
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #81
97. How so? By standing up for her candidate of choice? You need waders with posts like these.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
76. Oh dear. I step away from the computer for a few hours, and look at what you've done!
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:21 AM by Kurovski
K&R. I can hear Thom Hartmann reading this aloud.

And now...to read the responses.
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. I had to recommend that, just for the great title.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
89. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm...having lived with writers I am able to attest...
They are; they are some that are none more vain than they that exist to see their words if not in print; then on a screen somewhere.

"Democrat against Democrat" indeed!

And now, in addition to which, somewhere within this meow, stretch & snark; you've chastised by way of great and undue aspersions upon the hair color industry in this where-it-is the names have been changed not to protect the innocent; but their candidate's stumbling answers, if, of course, where blank sheets of paper even deign to answer if ever, and for the sake of mere words. Being a strawberry blond I must now dye my hair blond!? DOGBERRY!!

Tsk, tsk...either way the end is near and I say that is a good thing. In that this insufferable back & forth becomes him now Leonato personified;

"All thy tediousness on me, ah?"
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #89
99. Yeah...the interesting thing here is that
there are a few thousand of us who also like to see her words on the screen.

Your own writing might benefit from more editing and less merlot.



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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #99
124. Hm, merlot, now there's a thought...
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #99
179. .
:rofl:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #179
186. Naw, I'm doing 'the obama thang' and brushing all this off like dandruff, what? HRC doesn't...
color her her? Be serious. And if she's not a real blond then her supporters aren't really blind. That's how wet this paper brown bag of an 'essay' is. The OP is a boiler plate example of running right past what is. To get to what is little other than the embodiment of a Bill Maher punchline...

"Read My Blog!"
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #186
236. Definitely cut back on the merlot,
especially in the morning.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #236
292. More dandruff...
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #89
118. Away!
You are an ass, you are an ass!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #118
127. nee-ner nee-ner it takes one to know one...
spoken by the by like a *true* BHO supporter, keep up the shitty attitude dude it's growing on you like Kudzu :thumbsup:
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #127
131. Much Ado...
Act IV Sc ii line 72.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #131
134. Much Ado, indeed...
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #89
177. Great post Bridgit.
Pitting democrat against democrat indeed. I'm sick of reading this tripe.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
94. Hillary's attempt at a coup will fail
Power is seductive and absolute power corrupts absolutely --- so it was said years ago.

Her only means to her desired end is a coup, a floor fight on the convention floor of unprecedented proportions.

There is no way out of this clusterfuck without damaging hearts and egos, but ultimately the SuperD's want the Dems to prevail this fall, as does Dean/DNC. They will not let the party implode to advance the Clinton legacy - they simply won't.

Oh, they will wait till the last second, but a little bird told me no later then the week following the last primary, but no earlier then the week after Obama wins in NC and hopefully Indiana --- they will flock to Obama's camp and pull the plug on Hillary's campaign.

Unless, we are surprised on Tuesday with any kind of Obama win - that ends it on Wednesday.

BTW, another kick &R - thanks for the usual thoughtful prose Nance!

peace~:)

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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
96. kr
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
101. I see that Obama has a slim delegate lead if Fl and Mi are excluded but can not win w/ delegates.
That is what any rational observers will see.

I see that Obama spends everyday trying to court Super Delegates by telling them that if they go with Hillary, their decision is an illegitimate one---they must select a candidate based upon only one set set of criteria---the candidate who is ahead as of today in delegates with Florida and Michigan excluded.

Yes, Obama is trying to influence SDs. That is what this "SDs can not go against the will of the delegates" pr campaign which is being waged by his camp and by a lot of people in the MSM mostly at the GE controlled media empire amounts to. SDs are being pressured---no, since NanceGregg has lowered the bar on rational discourse to the level of emotional rhetoric let's rather say they are being intimidated, coerced even, into voting for Obama. Or else.

Obama runs ads that lie about Hillary's statements and positions. Obama sends oppo to the press in which he lies about Hillary's statements and positions and in which he peddles the latest distraction. Obama campaigns just like the dirtiest Republican. Obama takes money from corporations and lobbyists as long as they launder it through state capitals so that he can brag "It isn't Washington money---"

Is this getting a little too real for you? Go back to NanceGregg's extremely well written feel good OP which makes a mockery of reason, because if some Obama supporters were to allow themselves to think about what they are doing and saying, they might have to have second thoughts.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #101
114. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #101
121. Give me a break.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:41 AM by Major Hogwash
You're so full of hot air you could put 2 zeppelins in orbit!
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #121
128. Hot air? You must have meant to respond to the OP
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #128
162. No, I responded to the right person.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 05:32 AM by Major Hogwash
That's why I ignored you - you're just a clown in Hillary's circus.

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #128
164. Medicine cabinet, Now!
I think you've gone too far past the ingestion timetable for the variety of heavy metals prescribed for you delicate condition...

Or maybe as the saying goes, "Two more points on your IQ and you'd be a Plankton..."

So what time does your head spin around spewing pea green soup?

Lay off Nance, ya fucking ignorant, preening lowlife...

Let me make it even more simple for you - SHE Smart.. YOU Dumb!

Get someone to read that to you,

Later, Hater :)
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #101
136. Well, suck me dry and all me 'Dusty'.
"... since NanceGregg (sic) has lowered the bar on rational discourse to the level of emotional rhetoric let's rather say they are being intimidated, coerced even, into voting for Obama. Or else."

I had no idea that I held such sway over the voting public. Surely millions of voters will read my OP and be impressed beyond all reasoning!

Of course those who are supporting the winner in this race should "allow themselves to think about what they are doing and saying, they might have to have second thoughts, - and support the loser.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #101
138. How does one lie about Hillary's statements and positions when they send the video of her speaking
the damn words?

No, that's not lying, that's pointing out a truth.

Your jealousy of Nance shows. She makes a DAMN good point about the Supreme Court stepping in and deciding who would be President, overriding the will of the public. It's a very apropos analogy.

You are so divorced from reality, it is not even funny. Hillary Clinton has taken more lobbyist money than any of the presidential candidates PERIOD. She ACKNOWLEDGES this. Her response is that lobbyists are "people too" who "represent real people." Okay...

You are hating on Obama because he has run a superior campaign. He has the most money raised, the most donors, the most states won, the most pledged delegates, the most votes... you get the picture. It is unreasonable to expect the super dees to override this reality.

As far as pressuring super dees, all you have to do is look to the Clinton campaign to see them now putting Chelsea on the phone line to ask SD's "why... why?" are the switching to Obama. The longer Clinton continues with this race (and it is her right to continue), the longer she racks up more debt and increases both her own negatives as well diminishes her husband's approval and stature.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #101
146. Hope you're wearing protection from all the gizz flying around here.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #101
155. Is "Influencing the Superdelegates" a banned activity?
Because then the Sen Clinton campaign's to court, influence and harass superdelegates must also be banned. Perhaps the denigrating and slander against superdelegates who have chosen to support Obama should also be banned. The alternative is that you think Hillary has some sort of exclusive right to all superdelegates.

As for "mockeries of reason" this post seems to fit the bill far better than Nance Greggs' OP. Were MI and FL winner take all primaries? I do not think so. Interestingly Hillary ould barely gain 50% of the vote in both of those states, states where other candidates barely campaigned and in one of which she was the only major named candidate on the ballot. In addition are you in denial of Hillary's assertion that the MI vote, at least WOULD NOT COUNT? Sorry to shout but sometimes emphasis beyond bold is needed.

As for misrepresenting Hillary's positions ... are you saying the press is too dumb to go back and check sources? or that the Clinton campaign is too stupid to be able to anticipate such attacks - attacks of the sort which Hillary's campaign is so adroit at executing in the first place? Perhaps you believe that Hillary has some sort of divine right to misrepresent, slander, distract, lie and obfuscate?

As to taking money from corporations .... well I have seen more intricate cover-up stories than yours but only in the pages of Nexus or David Icke books.

MT when I first saw your post's I thought that you were a reasonable HRC supporter but now I class you with the other lunatics and frauds who seem to populate so much of her campaign

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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #101
295. NanceGreggs makes sense, you don't! Aren't you tired of posting
unintelligble crap?
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
108. Another fine post from Nance
What else is there to say? I can only hope this primary season is soon over. By June I may be sitting in the corner muttering to myself.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
110. Fantastic Writing
What is truly abhorrent about this stance is the deja-vu-all-over-again memory of another group of “deciders” – namely the Supreme Court – who once determined that a few adults (themselves) should step into the fray and “save” an immature and ignorant nation from elevating the “wrong” person to the presidency.

Fabulously said. Absolutely first rate writing.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
117. When James Carville called Bill Richardson "Judas" - that was the bitter end for me.
There was no way in hell I would vote for Hillary after Carville said that about Bill Richardson.

I have taken oaths to defend this country, and those oaths were to this country, not to people.

Loyalty to a person is what Hitler demanded.
I don't owe Hillary my vote just because I voted for Bill back in 1992.
I voted for Bill in 1992 because he wasn't George Bush.

I voted for Obama because he earned it.

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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #117
130. You sure chose the right name.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:48 AM by goldcanyonaz
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #130
163. What the hell is wrong with you?
Go see somebody about it.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #163
221. don't worry about "ignored", they're "BITTER".
so, to their own candidate, they no longer exist.


LOL
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
122. Nance, that is a DUzy of a title
and post. Thanks :hi:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
132. K&R
Absolutely wonderful, as always.
:kick:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
137. Hi Nance
I just wanted to say that since I've had a chance to read all of the posts, I'm glad to see that there are DU'ers here who give you a hard time.

I was beginning to worry that DU was becoming a sycophantic echo chamber where everyone kisses the asses of a select few posters and/or candidates. After seeing the number of people here PROUDLY trumpeting the number of posters on their "Ignore" lists, I was afraid that that was beginning to happen. As someone who reads conservative media daily along with more mainstream fare, I could never see myself as being so thin-skinned as to have an Ignore list unless someone was truly crazy. Hell, I even somehow got on the subscription list for a white supremacist newsletter once, and read it for over a year before I mentioned to them that I was black and probably should be taken off of their distribution. So I was nervous when I saw so many DU'ers crow about having dozens of folks on their Ignore list. But after reading this and seeing the number of people calling you out, I'm feeling pretty good again.

Debate and discussion is alive and well on DU and it makes me happy to see it. Thanks for being one of the folks around here giving all of us something to fuss about.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #137
152. !!

LOL for several reasons, especially that subscription list....:rofl:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
153. Great post
:yourock:

And I'm with you on that whole "they offer no reasons" thing. Some of the posters here have become scary in their mania to claim but never explain.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
156. Bravo, NG!
~PEACE~
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
157. Great read Nancy, and spot on.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
158. Nominated.
Very well done. I am passing this on to some friends who I think will appreciate it. There have been a few essays on DU that are of such a high quality that the campaign could use them.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
160. kick
:thumbsup:
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
161. Funny.....
The most pertinent statement coming from the op describes Obamaniacs to a tee.

"It is said that there are none so blind as those who will not see."

O supporters may guilt some starry-eyed democrats into his camp, but the elitist, self-serving Obamaniacs will sacrifice the ge for their naive, and flawed ideology, born out of hatred for HRC, and any who support her. Obamaniacs hate HRC and her supporters with a republican like zeal, and many examples of that elitist hatred appear here every day. This is a prime example, albeit, a well written one.

And this statement:
"But what is truly tragic is seeing the same kind of rhetoric that was once solely owned by the Republicans being used by so-called Democrats against their fellow party members: You’re either with Hillary or against Hillary – and if you are against her, we, her supporters, will take the entire party, and the democratic process, down without hesitation rather than accept defeat."

is just the op lying to herself, and any who read this. She claims to have the power to read minds now. Amazing what the mixture of ego and guilt can produce. Thanks.
quickesst
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #161
262. quickesst, I can see your opinion in there just fine,
it's still visible in the midst of all the mind-fucking.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
166. Weren't the superdelegates created precisely to "save the...Democratic voters from themselves"?
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 05:58 AM by Perry Logan
I thought the SD's were created to keep the party from getting carried away by its enthusiasm. The Hillary people are arguing that this is the case with Obama.

I'm not defending the SD system, but it seems unfair to criticize Hillary supporters for wanting the SD's to do what they were created to do in the first place.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
168. So, according to you ALL Hillary supporters are ignorant. Willfully
ignorant? No matter that the MSM gave us two real shit candidates (yes, the media picked our candidates), those who have their reasons to support someone other than Barrie are ignorant. Anyone who doesn't see things YOUR way is ignorant. Anyone who doesn't understand that THEIR vote rightfully belongs to YOU is ignorant.

Aren't YOU special?
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
169. GEEZ Nance!
If I ever wanted to have a nice big ignore list, this would be the thread to find those I would fill it with..... You seem to have brought most of them out!
:rofl:
K&R
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #169
291. Now that's good advice....
but preaching exclusively to the choir wouldn't be much of a challenge. I don't have the gift of being able to read other's minds myself, but I would probably bet good money that she will not avail herself of your advice. On the other hand, if her primary goal is garner kudos, and votes in the "Who Can Hate a Clinton the Most" contest, then ignore would probably be an asset. Thanks.
quickesst
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #291
299. Exactly why I don't use it!
I want to read what people are thinking, even though it differs from what I might want to read. I certainly didn't suggest Nance should use it.
:hi:
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
173. i love when you post nance
its always good
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
175. Why do you hate women?
:P

I reckon the saddest part for me is that HRC supporters will not see the eloquence of the OP through their bitter veil.
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
176. BILL HAS BEEN FULLY VETTED.... and the vet says the burning sensation will go away soon
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
178. more "unity" from an Obama supporter
Hope and change can't be far behind.....


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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
180. Personally, I'd prefer not to insult and drag down either of our candidates until one is chosen.
This website has become a mother-lode of future fodder for the RW against either of them. And neither of them deserve that from us. Not from us.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #180
182. ....or their supporters. The OP is insulting....
and should know better.

I'm not blind.
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #182
187. There's no shortage of idiots
as displayed in this thread.

These individuals have nothing to do with Obama being a uniter or divider...

But if you have Bill Clinton on the campaign trail making divisive statements one after another and Hillary with her Kitchen Sink strategy, well should they know better? That's the old politics that Obama is trying to prove is not in the best interest of the American People. I mean really, a negative campaign only results in burning the very bridges that you'll need to cross if the candidate is elected. Is there an wonder why there is a partisan gridlock in Washington???

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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #182
204. I'm not blind either
But I sure am bitter!!!!!!!!!!!
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
185. Oh dear. Oh my. Hope you're stocked up on smokes
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 09:39 AM by durrrty libby
I so enjoy knowing where you're headed. It is more delish than a fabulous Tiramisu

:thumbsup:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
188. Excellent as always, Nance
:thumbsup:
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
189. K&R On target and insightful as usual
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
190. Nance, awesome!
As always.

- K&R!!!
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
191. Another awesome post NanceGreggs
I really enjoy reading your posts-this is a really good one. Keep up the good work!! :hi:
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
195. Nance, you are taking yourself way too seriously. Take some time off. relax.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #195
201. Plonk for insulting everyone's intelligence and concluding Nance is a nonperson
you aren't qualified to untie her sandals.


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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
196. To summarize: we don't suck as bad as you do.
As far as your patronizing, condescending tone, you should at least have the common decency to be right when lecturing people. I can only speak for myself (you might want to try that yourself) but I have very good reasons for choosing Hillary over the flavor of the month. I also have very solid reasons for disliking Obama and his devotees. As far as blindness goes, heal thyself.

When Obama blows it in November, I am going to expect an engraved apology from all you. And don't think you can blame his crushing defeat on Hillary. He never had a chance.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
199. NanceGreggs insults all women and all sight impaired persons in one headline.
Shame.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #199
207. Yes, but
she does it in such a pedantic and ostentatious manner that it must be good shit - much like the candidate she supports.
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libbygurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #207
237. Spot on, BV! nt
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #199
223. Yes, the title suggests misogynistic scoptophobia
But the content is right on.

:thumbsup:

:hi:

:kick:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
205. Clinton supporters here don't need your lecturing. Not yours or anyone elses.
If you have something to say to someone in particular about something that's been posted here, you should directly respond to that poster and let it go at that. This is just adding to the resentment.

It's incredible that anyone can really believe that either campaign has some lock on virtue at this point. That's blindness.

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #205
210. And now a word from the slowskies
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #210
213. not enough ridicule on this threadbait for your entertainment?
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #213
234. The ridiculous is that Hill and her supporters while knowing they
have lost continue to seriously damage the party and better McCains chances to give the Bush policies 4 and possibly 8 more years. THAT IS WHAT IS RIDICULOUS AND IS TOTAL MADNESS; TO SAY NOTHING OF IDIOCY.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #234
245. all of that just campaign driven blather. The party is just fine.
And it's not Clinton's responsibility to help Obama win this primary. Voters did that, not Clinton. That's who you really are ranting at, not the candidate. What a despicable, self-serving display. Back off of the voters.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
206. Excellent post as usual....If I might nit pick just a teense
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 11:25 AM by ooglymoogly
I might suggest a change from "a scant few years" to 7 interminably long years, going on 8 million years.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
212. Sad, Nance. It seems you've become that which you...

ranted about, not so very long ago.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #212
238. Do you have any specifics to back-up your bumper sticker?
As far as I recall, Nance has always spoken out against right-wing tactics.

I'd like to see what your view is.
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #212
248. Yeah, toss her under the bus too...eeeshh...n/t
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
214. Kicked and recommended
Thanks for the thread, Nancy Greggs.:thumbsup:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
216. K & R
:thumbsup:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
219. For the title alone!
lol

:yourock:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
225. Kick
buh-bye closet republicans, buh bye DLC.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
227. Reading this thread, it's become obvious: NanceGreggs is Blonde.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #227
240. Keep harping on the title.
It's all you got. Unless you want to defend a candidate who is using dirty right-wing tactics against someone who's in her own party.

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #240
242. You type very well. You know, considering...
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #242
247. I made a mistake.
It isn't the only tool in your belt. You'd also rather try to emotionally manipulate folks than go beyond a critique of the headlines.

I'll be voting Clinton if that's where this goes. My hope is you will also vote for a Democratic candidate.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
228. "those who see the more-than-obvious truth in all of its undeniable clarity"
This is what they all say. The Nazis, Mao, Jim Jones. Please share how you achieved perfect enlightenment & clarity. The world is waiting.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #228
229. The 'truth' I'm talking about being clear ...
... is delegate counts, and where the two candidates stand in this race - something which some Hillary supporters refuse to see.

No "perfect enlightenment" required; just math.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #229
233. Truth is that obama didn't get enough delegates either.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
235. Say what you want. In spite of all of Hillary's missteps and mistatements....
I still like her alot better than Obama.

And in the end, I will (to borrow a phrase from you) hold my nose and vote for Obama.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #235
246. I will also be voting for the Democratic candidate.
I think it's important to remember that while there are true Clinton supporters who have made their own honest decision based on calculation of our chances in the long run, policy, their own sense of hope, or deep personal reasons, we also have some individuals whose sole purpose is to keep us from voting for each other's candidate by deepening and nurturing the resentment. I believe we have some actual McCain supporters merely posing as supporters of Dem candidates.

I'm not going to allow those people to make my decision for me, or to manipulate me emotionally. I'm voting Dem.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
243. "for some Hill supporters, defeating Obama as the nominee has surpassed the importance of defeating
the GOP come November" NG in a response on this thread

One wonders what motivates them to this cause...

Heartily recommended Nance.



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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
251. the smears never end
"The lady herself has declared that McCain is a more qualified candidate for POTUS than her fellow Democrat."

This is a distortion. She said that McCain had more experience in a key area. Experience is not the only thing that qualifies someone to be POTUS. Both Clintons have repeatedly said that Obama would make a far better President than McCain. They have pointed out that his positions on various policies are vastly superior.

Why do you continue to distort the truth in a way that smears Clinton?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #251
252. There's no distortion there.
She said what she said - and more than once. "Obama is just a speech he made in 2002."

Yes, high praise indeed for her fellow Democrat.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #252
258. ignore my argument and distort again
She has made it very clear that she thinks Obama would be a better choice for POTUS than McCain. She has never said what you claimed that she said, namely, that McCain is more qualified to be POTUS than Obama. You can't be so mind-numbingly dumb to suppose that you are being fair here.

She did say, "His entire campaign is based on one speech he gave at an anti-war rally in 2002." She was making a case that it would be more difficult for Obama to support his claim to be more qualified than McCain." But apparently these little nuances of meaning escape you.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #258
261. The quote:
"Now I think you will be able to imagine many things Sen. McCain will be able to say. He has never been the president. He will put forth his experience. I will put forth my experience. Sen. Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

There's no nuance there. While pointing out McCain's experience and her own, she dismissed Obama's entire life's experience as a single speech.

Believe me, I've heard enough 'spin' on this quote from Hill supporters to last me a lifetime - along with the spin on her Bosnia lie.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #261
263. thanks for making my point
I don't see anything there that implies that McCain would make a better president. Couple that with her repeated explicit claims that Obama would make a better president, and you get to the unspun truth.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #263
264. As I said ...
... I've heard enough spin on this to last a lifetime.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
255. Kick. (nt)
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
260. (nm)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
265. Kick. (nt)
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
267. K&R. Right on, sister! n/t
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
268. Okay, ASDF I've recommended it and QWERTY I've bookmarked it
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 07:01 PM by WIllo
but,
aaaa;;;;ssssllll for the CTRL-{W}ord life of me, Nance, ALT -{P}aragraph oh, for crying out loud! Which one?

SHFT-{S}entence I can't figure out F10 how to get my keyboard CTRL - SHFT to do an OP like that

CTRL - ALT - DEL uh oh

*poof*
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
269. I see you have picked up on one of the corporate media
talking points and 'That' is the blather..."just let us get a few more deep jugular digs into the dems before the money spicket is turned off....don't worry it won't hurt the whining dems" make the dems put all their money into the coffers of corporate media before we really take the gloves of and put McCain into office....fer sher dooood
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #269
301. Deeply sorry to NaceGreggs, this reply post was meant as an answer to another
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 06:19 PM by ooglymoogly
and does not make the slightest sense here. Actually I think you are the cats meow and I was in fact leaping to your defense. The post I was answering was #234 and I did not catch it until just now.
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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
270. Excellent, as usual!
Thanks!
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
271. Excellent OP. K & R.
:thumbsup:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
274. Kick. (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
275. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #275
276. Sometimes it's time to take a break. It's good for your mental health.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
277. Kick. (nt)
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
278. Girl... Where Did You Learn To Write ??? - THAT WAS AWESOME !!!
:bounce::yourock::bounce:

My fave:

"They persist in adapting to new goalpost positions that literally change by the hour, have developed some kind of new math by which losses are calculated as gains, and continue to steadfastly ignore the inconvenient truths that spell defeat in letters so large they can be seen from the nearest asteroid belt."

Wow!!!

:rofl:

:hi:
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
279. "When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 09:28 PM by Evergreen Emerald
This is a thread created by one who purposefully shuts her eyes and covers her ears and shouts Lalalalalala to avoid reality.

She suggests that Clinton would not fair better in the general. Those of us watching (our eyes open wide) see Obama for what he is: a good speaker who time and again fails under pressure. Those of us listening and not lulled by the pertty words, hear that he has not a deep grasp of the issues, but appears to mimic his handlers. Those of us who are not shouting “lalalalala” to avoid letting any reason in, can see that Obama is not ready to be President.

She says: “Resurrected with a vengeance:” translation: We can’t support Clinton, cause those republicans will bring up whitewater again and have Ken sTarr talk about his million dollar investigation that turned up……NOTHING. Nothing.

And with ears covered, cannot hear that Rezko, Ayers, NAFTA, Lobbyists, the lies and lies and lies are starting to surface, just in time for the general.

And then the suggestion is made that we look at her behavior the last few months. And like the media and like the handlers and like the supporters who REFUSE to look at Obama’s behavior, want us only to focus on Clinton’s. Why? He lies. He makes mistakes. He makes mis-statments. He used “Racism!” to win and continues to demean Clinton with sexist code. Why not look at his behavior? Why ignore his behavoir?

I believe it is in part because she is female. She must do everything he does, only backwards and in high heels. Perfect. Perfection or failure. And that sexism re-defines her. Demeans her. Allows the media to attack her, unfettered. And she looses support. Not because every person who supports him is sexist, but becasue the attacks are based in sexism.

When she says something reasonable about McCAin, the world ends. Those who cover their ears and shut their eyes, open just enough to shout: IHATEHERDIDYOUHEARWHATTHEMEDIASAIDSHEMEANT? And when Obama says something just as reasonable about McCAin, Obama supporters cover their ears and shut their eyes to the double standard and hypocricy.

And then we have the superdelegates. The ones that are supposed to be above the petty politics. The ones that view the whole situation and vote with their conscience. The ones whose eyes and ears are wide open. The ones that Obama and his supporters want to sway with political bullshit. DON’T SUPPORT HER SEE WHAT SHE DOES? Shouts Obama. He wants to change the rules mid election and give the superdelegates new criteria. More double standard from Obama. But eyes closed, ears covered. They don’t hear. They only shout: IHATEHERSHEISEVIL. And then, like the republicans before them, re-define her character, re-tell her past, so they can justify their complete unjustifiable double-standard.

And then, Clinton is called a “Racist!” and the Obama supporters HATE HER. Demeaning, belittling, dehumanizing her by calling her animal names, or suggesting that she has her “claws out,” or talking about how she must be that time of the month, or suggesting that she is hysterical (throwing China), and the supporters say, nope. Not sexist. Demeaning, making her less, female dogs are unpresidental. And the masses believe it: she is so dog-like and unpresidential.

Ignoring the obvious is easy when your ears are covered and your eyes are shut and your mouth is open screaming IHATEHER.

When the media attacked Clinton, Obama and his supporters cheered. SHE IS A WHINER. SHE IS THE FRONT RUNNER. SHE IS WEAK AND CANNOT BE PRESIDENT IF SHE CANNOT TAKE A DEBATE QUESTION.

We all know what happened when the roles were reversed.

I read with mouth agap and head shaking in stunned silence, this piece of Nancy’s. Nancy, whom last year I would have trusted with the truth, has shown such a lack of awareness. I look at your last paragraph and wonder, how you cannot SEE. But, then I remember that you have chosen to shut your eyes and cover your ears. And become what you wrote: choosing not to see, not to hear. And only to shout unreasonably “IHATECLINTONSHEISEVIL.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #279
281. Again I am challenged by a Hillary supporter ...
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 09:30 PM by NanceGreggs
... to defend things I never said.

She says: “Resurrected with a vengeance:” translation: We can’t support Clinton, cause those republicans will bring up whitewater again and have Ken sTarr talk about his million dollar investigation that turned up……NOTHING. Nothing."

There was no 'translation' needed; I said what I said - which is that Hillary campers keep pointing to Obama's "unelectability" based on the fact that the GOP will go after him - as though they won't go after Hillary. We both know the truth; they will go after whoever the Dem nominee is. So why does the Clinton camp keep harping on what will be said about Obama, as though Hill will miraculously get a free pass?

The real truth of the matter, my friend, is that you - along with a number of other Hillary supporters here - like to think that sexism, or some kind of unwarranted hatred of Hillary is the cause of her losing the nomination.

I don't hate Hillary; neither do most people who support Obama. But again, some people need to believe that it is blind hatred for one candidate that moves people to support the other, rather than the notion that Obama offers something that Hillary lacks.

It is obvious from your remarks, here and elsewhere, that you cannot accept the fact that Obama will be the nominee based on the majority of voters preferring him to your choice. Instead, you have to console yourself with the misguided notion that every vote for Obama was not a vote for him, but a vote against Hillary.

There are two candidates left in this race, and the one who is ahead earned that position on his own merits - just as the one who is in the losing position earned her place as well.

But please feel free to continue putting your fingers in your ears and saying "la, la, la, everyone just HATES Hillary, and that's why she's losing." - because there couldn't possibly be any other explanation.


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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #281
284. Challenged? I am not challenging you.
I am suggesting that your view of reality is blocked. I am suggesting that your posts, dripping with venom and hate, are what you deny they are.

I am suggesting that your mind is closed so tight...too tight to glimpse...just a glimpse...of what I see.


When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking back wards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"

Through the looking glass. Reality is upside down and back wards.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #284
285. I don't consider pointing out the fact ...
... that Hillary is losing this race as being dripping with venom and hate.

Perhaps the Hill campers are too busy catching up with the constant re-positioning of the goalposts to understand that your candidate is losing this race due to her own actions, statements, and behaviour, and not due to the voters' inability to see clearly.

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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #285
286. Nor do I. But your tone, choice of words, "facts" that you choose to
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 10:11 PM by Evergreen Emerald
post and facts that you choose to ignore all combine to create a venomous concoction that drips from the pages satisfying the supporters who apparently live for the droplets.

You suggest that Clinton is loosing because of her behavior. But then, in other posts when you site the behavior in question, it is nothing but the distortions, media created lies and mountains made out of molehills. So, I see the thread for what it is. Feed for the haters. It is easy to please them. A couple of insults to those few left on DU who can stand up to the attacks. A few attacks on Clinton's character (distortions and lies). And of course all the while praising the king of DU.

Credibility is hard to retrieve once you decide to jump in the sewer.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #286
290. Well, looks like you, albeit inadvertently ...
... nailed it.

"Credibility is hard to retrieve once you decide to jump in the sewer."

Too bad Hillary's campaign didn't heed that warning.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #279
293. concurred...
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
280. A kick on the eve of Earth Day. Also on the eve of... something to do
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 09:14 PM by Old Crusoe
with politics . . . a primary I think. Somewhere in the East, maybe...?

Anyway, 'wanted to weigh in on a Monday evenin' with a further nod to the OP's strong, clear, and much appreciated voice on this site.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
282. Excellent Post!!!
Kick
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
296. I'm frankly amused at this thread, Nance, you seemed to have brought out the worst in yourself...
and others, congratulations! :puke:
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
300. Blonde! Oh that's why she thinks she is *#$%)#$ Yoda
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
302. Nance; I hope you caught my profound apology for a misplaced nasty reply #301
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 06:36 PM by ooglymoogly
hope you will forgive and not make me eat nails.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
303. We're at war with Eurasia.
We've always been at war with Eurasia.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
304. Kick
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