I have news for you.......buying an election does not mean your candidate is better.....

[BooScout]

It simply means your supporters have more money to throw around. Obama has outspent Clinton 4 to 1 and they are still not that far apart in total votes.....not that far apart at all if you think about how much money Obama has spent on advertising telling us how wonderful he is. Both candidates have shattered all the records for fundraising this past year or so.

So because Clinton appeals more to the blue collar workers who are hurting hard for money and can't afford to spend as much to support their candidate, you crow about how much Obama has raised and how much he has spent.

It reminds me of playground taunts similar to 'My daddy makes more money than your daddy'.......very telling indeed.:eyes:

[KansasVoter]

1. But not being able to raise money means your candidate is worse. No organization!

[PoliticalAmazon]

56. She's $10million in debt. Why won't her supporters fund her campaign? ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5600855

[roguevalley]

71. jeez, now they are kvetching over the money. sad.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Have fun in La La Land.

[rodeodance]

40. Too bad obama can NOT brush off Wright.

[shadowknows69]

95. You're such a childish piece of shit and you're no Democrat

Please continue your madness after the primes so you get yourself tombstoned.

[JackORoses]

100. too bad Hillary can't brush off being a compulsive LIAR

Bill could use a brush off, as well.

[KansasVoter]

3. I have bad news for you....you need money in the General election too! And Obama can raise it!

[my3boyz]

4. Well, if those poor blue collar workers vote for McCain over Barack then

I don't want to hear a damn thing about how much they are hurting. They will deserve everything that happens to them economically the following 4 years.

[melody]

8. Well said n/t

[cali]

5. this is nonsense on so many levels. Obama is not buying an election.

Far, far more of hill's supporters have maxed out, indicating that she has many more big money supporters. It does not mean that Obama's supporters have more money "to throw around". It means he has a fuck of a lot more donors. duh.

[joeprogressive]

6. Give me a break. If Hillary had the money she would be spending

it to run attack ads night and day. Obama has the money because he has received millions of small donations from ordinary people. HRC supporters just aren't that enthusiastic about her.

[rodeodance]

47. and she is

still winning PA--no matter how much $$ Obama is throwing his money away.

GO MAMA

[C_U_L8R]

7. Better management... Better ROI

Obama has outclassed Hillary at every step.
And he earned those 31 wins (versus Hilllary's 15)
with hard work and a superbly managed organization.

You've got a very clear choice right before you...
how do you want YOUR country run?
Do you want success and a stellar team
or do you want debt and disorganization?

[flor de jasmim]

9. Hillary? Money? Remember how much she blew in IOWA?

[Coexist]

11. but thats different

she was ahead in Iowa and needed to maintain her lead - see the difference?

[mwb970]

10. Do you happen to know the average Obama donation?

And the average HRC donation? Well, the latter is much larger than the former. Obama has more money because he has many more contributors, of smaller amounts each.

It seems to me that the HRC corporate donors (have you seen the long list?) are the ones with "money to throw around". Yet, her total corporate contributions still add up to less than Obama has received from individuals who are not corporations.

Funny you would mention "playground taunts". Very telling indeed.

[Arkansas Granny]

39. Do you have a link for that info?

[mwb970]

50. Well, the average Obama contribution has been known for some time.

It's about $100 (easy to find online). HRC has chosen to keep her fundraising results secret until the last possible day for disclosure (yesterday), possibly to avoid revealing that her campaign is actually in debt. I guess we'll have to wait a bit to see if her average contribution in fact exceeds $100. My apologies if I jumped the gun.

I saw an Obama ad that included a long list of Hillary's corporate contributors, but I can't locate it. Do you think it was perhaps misleading?

[Arkansas Granny]

53. I had seen a list of corporate donations here on DU a few weeks ago and it seems that

both candidates receive substantion donations of corporate money.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4060908

If you follow the link to the Open Secrets website you can get a breakdown by industry and sector.

[mwb970]

54. Maybe I'm thinking of the reports that many of her donors were maxed out.

That made me think they were big-money types, if not actual corporations.

[rainbow4321]

81. From Open Secrets...40% of his donors give less than $200

http://opensecrets.org/pres08/donordems.asp?filter=A&sortby=S


Link has a breakdown of % from various donor amounts. Large chunk of HRC are in the >$2300 and >$4600 donations...like 75% of her donors are in those 2 categories.


She's tapped out the large amount donors and pissed off/ignores the grassroots base.

[Political Heretic]

86. Yes. I have a link. Average contribution size was 96$

His campaign said that the more than 442,000 contributors included more than 218,000 who donated for the first time. The average contribution was $96.

Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/04/obama_says_he_b.html

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. No, having a level of engagement with voters that encourages more donations...

and grass-roots activism means a candidate is better.

Helpful hint: Hillary hasn't and can't do that.

[indimuse]

13. still can't win!

great press, tons of money, and out-of-their-mind supporters...and he has still not put this thing away. !!still can't win
There is something inherently wrong with that - and it's not HRC that is to blame.

Barack Obama is a flawed candidate and will be an even more flawed nominee - and it will be painfully obvious in November should he (God Forbid!) become the Dem. Candidate.
And he he has flood of cash coming from other nations as well...if ya know what I mean.

[C_U_L8R]

15. Still can't win? It's 31 wins for Obama (to Hillary's 15)

Can't do the math or keep score?

[ScarletSniper]

16. "And he he has flood of cash coming from other nations as well...if ya know what I mean"

No, please tell us what you mean.

Speaking of flawed..what does it say about Hillary that she can't overtake him? Why can't and why didn't the inevitable nominee put the upstart away? Inquiring minds want to know.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

26. I am a Democrat Abroad

But I am an American citizen living permanently in the UK, was the OP saying I don't have the right to donate to Obama because I don't live in the US?

BS... and I did donate to Obama and proud of it! I think it was $50 (I bought the shirt and a couple of buttons, plus kicked in extra bucks). When they did a fund-raiser in London for Obama, the only way you could get in was have a US passport. I didn't go (a wee bit expensive for me) but it would have been fun!

EDIT: I didn't realise that it was a reply to #13, sorry.

[ScarletSniper]

37. I think the OP had something more sinister in mind...I see there has been no response..

[FunkyLeprechaun]

55. I noticed that

Is that what we call a hit and run?

[BooScout]

60. You know that's not what she meant....

She meant foreign interests abroad as in countries and entities......not individual American citizens. It was simple enough to understand.:eyes:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

87. It could be read both ways

As an American abroad I read it one way.

[joeprogressive]

19. Weak point. If I was running for president and was getting beat really bad

technically, I could still be in the race. In reality world, this is over, but Hillary doesn't reside there.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

31. Are you saying that...

As an American citizen living abroad, I have no right to donate to Obama?


(awaiting your reply)

[girl gone mad]

33. What does that say about your candidate...

who is by every measure doing worse?

[Voltaire]

34. If he is flawed, what does that make Hillary???

Honestly, do you people THINK before you post?

[ScarletSniper]

14. Oh another reason why she's losing...now it's because her supporters are blue collar workers..please

Do you remember how much money she had on hand at the start of all this..and it didn't come from Blue Collar workers either.

Nice try of re-arranging the goal posts, but it doesn't fly.

[mmonk]

17. Super Tuesday proved that. But not the way you think.

[joeprogressive]

18. Your argument got shot down so hard and fast.

I know your team is grasping for anything at this point but this is just a ridiculous post. What should Obama have done? Send it back so everything was fair. Is that what HRC would have done? They say you can tell a lot about how you run a campaign, and Hillary's has been a disaster. If she can't manage her people, her message or her money, she's not ready for prime time.

[Saturday]

20. Does spending the most money make you the nominee?

Ask Mitt Romney. Go Hillary!

[joeprogressive]

21. The fact you got four recs with this weak post shows what we are up against.

HRC supporters can post anything, no matter how specious the argument is and it will receive recs. It makes you look like a bunch of poorly programmed robots.

[Ian_rd]

23. This has been true for several weeks

Anything attacking Obama, no matter how brainless, is jumped on with desperation by the Hillarites with recs.

[Ian_rd]

22. And who has given him this money?

I don't remember him ever loaning himself 5 mil.

[dkf]

24. Hillary Clinton spent $36 million to win her Senate seat reelection vs. $5 million for no name Rep.

She could have rolled over that money to her Presidential campaign as she did with her other Senate funds.

Instead she blew it all on a contest she should have had no problem winning.

And now her campaign is $7 million in the hole.

Ironic...


November 14, 2006
Hillary's absurd spending in NY

Today's New York Times features a graphic that illustrates just how disproportionate Hillary Clinton's spending was in her Senate race:

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2006/11/hillarys_absurd.html

[bowens43]

25. Hate to break it to you but Obama isn't buying anything.

This lame attempt at rovian spin is truly pathetic. Face , your candidate isn't spending as much because she doesn't have as much. The American people have decided that Obama is the candidate , so they support him financially.

[TragedyandHope]

27. Yes, Millions of votes mean nothing

and all the concerned, patriotic voters who fail to recognize your wisdom are beneath contempt. We've heard it all before, ad nauseum. We are trying to make a positive change for everyone in this country. It won't hurt you to consider that we share the same goals and love of our country and its people.

[GoesTo11]

28. Jealous much?

[susankh4]

29. Amen!

And shopping at Walmart won't make your purchases more reliable.

Nor will drinking at Starbucks make your latte more yummy.

Like that Axelrod packaging, do they?

[girl gone mad]

30. Pot, Kettle much? n/t

[AirmensMom]

32. Know what's telling?

The bullshit some of the people here are throwing around.

Millions of ordinary people are making small donations to Obama. Those small donations can add up to a lot of money. That's not the same thing as buying an election. Clinton has name recognition. Obama needs to let people know who he is. So where is the problem? I believe Obama is the better candidate. If you don't believe that, it's your choice. But please, stop grasping at straws just because your candidate isn't winning the way you thought she would.

[myrna minx]

36. I had no idea that I was a big money bags lobbyist due to my $25.00

contribution to the Obama campaign, but due to some of the Hillary supporters in this forum, I now realize what a really big time mover and elitist shaker I am! :hi:

[AirmensMom]

41. LOL!

:spray:

I bet that's the most you've gotten out of $25 in a long time! :rofl: And the good news is that the $5 contributor is a "really big time mover and elitist shaker" as well! I'm loving the fact that Obama has made us all so important. Sure beats the helplessness we've felt over the past several years, doesn't it?


:hi:

[myrna minx]

84. You got that right!

I love being a part of a movement, feeling empowered and knowing that we are doing our part to bring about refreshing change in this country. :hi:

[yourguide]

35. Pay attention.

Just before Iowa she had outraised Obama, she came in 3rd in Iowa.

By Super Tuesday they were tied in fundraising and even tho she herself stated it was over, she couldnt close the deal.

As the presumptive frontrunner, she had all of the media coverage leading into Iowa and she tanked.

Blame your candidate for blowing campaign money on suites at the bellagio and not on advertising.

She had all of the advantages in the beginning, she couldnt close the deal.

[rodeodance]

48. nah--its a new day In PA.

[Gore1FL]

93. Yes it is

But all the new days in the world won't give enough delegates.

[yourguide]

51. Cant see you #48

:hi:

[Bake]

38. And I thought progressives decried money in politics.

I guess it's different when their candidate has tons of cash.

Bake

[saltpoint]

42. Obama's donors are overwhelmingly sending small to modest amounts

to his campaign.

She had a crateload of cash from the git-go and blew it all.

Very telling indeed.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

43. Sour Grapes

Obama's people donate in increments of less than $100. I don't see a trough of wealth, I see average people donating what they can. Why can't Hillary do that? Oh yeah, because she courts the ultra-wealthy instead.

[AllexxisF1]

44. You know what is really scary.

What really is scary is that Hillbots are acting like the 28% Right Wing Nut Jobs who still think Bush is doing a good job. That no matter what it's not their candidates fault.


Never...ever did I think their was a segment in our own party who would blindly follow a candidate no matter what and be oblivious to the greater good. Congrats Hillbots you fit there mold.

[chascarrillo]

45. Obama has not outspent Clinton 4 to 1. Please retract that obviously false claim.

[onenote]

64. you're wasting your time. Hit and Run OP

[1776Forever]

46. WOW I never felt so important! Thanks so much for acknowledging my power!!!!!!!

You are so right - the power of all of Obama's "elitist" over a million bitter everyday men and women have bought this election for him!!!!!!!!

And by the way it isn't "My daddy makes more money than your daddy" it is "My candidate speaks more for me then yours does!" That is who I want in the White House - Someone who speaks for me and all the other little me's that have given to the Obama campaign!!!!!

Yes WE Can!!!!!!!!!!
:grouphug:

[BornBlue]

67. Wow, I feel Uber important!!!

I gave him $100.00 dollars, over 3 separate donations, and I even strong-handed another poor person to give him $25.00 as a first time matching donation. Wow, does this mean he owes me some sort of favor because I am from his home state(IL) and gave him $$?? I will wait for my big pay off!! Is it a pony?

[Evergreen Emerald]

49. That is what Edwards said too.

He was out spent and still came in second on one occasion.

The problem is with the American people. Money should not work, but it does because people just believe what they see on TV and in the mailbox and are swayed by advertising.

[Orsino]

52. Turning an enorm lead in money and name recognition into second place, though, means something. n/t

[Romulox]

57. Remember, the WHOLE POINT of disenfranchizing Mi/Fla was so that the big $$$ wouldn't decide

At least that was the excuse. :rofl:

[npincus]

58. Talk to Romney or Giuliani- money doesn't matter as much as the

candidate. However, Clinton is a political celebrity and superstar- already known. Obama HAS the burden of making himself known and familiar enough to PA. voters that they will support him.

Your "news" is not news, just more condescension from a group that can't rally around our most likely nominee.

[SeaLyons]

59. K&R

:kick:

[AtomicKitten]

61. More $ = more support = more people think Obama is the better candidate.

Math seems to escape the Clinton campaign.

[BlooInBloo]

62. It's the way he got his money....

EDIT: I.e., the way Clinton DIDN'T.

[Life Long Dem]

63. Excuses after excuses after excuses. Everything is an excuse.

The reason she is this, or that or did this or said that, she's sleep deprives, it's the gender card, it's Bill, it's the media, it's the activist, and the list goes on and on and on.

[billyoc]

65. True. Sinking deeper into debt every day, however, does mean that your candidate it worse. nt

[Erin Elizabeth]

66. Just because your candidate can raise more money

doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

Just because your candidate has more delegates doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

Just because your candidate has more popular votes doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

Just because your candidate gives better speeches doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

Just because your candidate is taking super delegates away from the other candidate doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

Just because your candidate has bigger turnouts at rallies doesn't mean ANYTHING! SO THERE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Xf8F2y118&feature=related

The above is the Clinton supporter playlist. Choose one a day and then post it and pretend it's true. Amen. And Hellelujah prayers to St. Hillary.

[redqueen]

68. This is a joke, right?

[thewiseguy]

69. Is it Obama's fault that Hillary cant raise money?

Obama has more money because he has more donors. People like me.

[blm]

70. I have news for you - Hillary expected to have the primary campaign BOUGHT by Feb 5.

Or are you DELIBERATELY ignoring that fact?

[Mz Pip]

72. Nobody paid me for my vote n/t

[anonymous171]

73. More Money means more ad buys means better able to attack and defend nationally.

[izzybeans]

74. Who do you think is funding the campaigns exactly?

[madwivoter]

75. It's called grassroots support

I do not have money to throw around, I donate what I can to Obama's campaign without breaking my budget. Sometimes it's $25, sometimes it's $37 :), sometimes it's $50.

Obama did NOT have Hillary Clinton's name recognition, I don't think it's a big surprise to anyone that he must outspend her on the campaign trail.

If it reminds you of playground taunts, is there a possibility you are a bit envious of Obama's support? Just asking...

Maybe you should go make a contribution to your candidate. She can use it.

[WA98296]

76. Being able to afford one is Priceless! Go 'bama!

[newmajority]

77. So Hillary starts out with hundreds of millions of CORPORATE funds

and because her ego wouldn't allow her to plan past Feb 5, that means Obama is trying to "buy" the election?

God damn the Hillbot Bullshit is getting deep in here today.......

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newmajority]

80. No thanks, Adam

"Joe"?

Yeah right........ :eyes:

[DrFunkenstein]

79. Why Obama Is a Better Candidate Has Nothing To Do With Fundraising

That is merely a consequence.

[rainbow4321]

82. Check out this graph...75% of her donors have given

greater than $2300 and $4600...she's pandered to the big spenders and ignored the grassroots donors.

Meanwhile..Obama's stats: 40% of his donors have given $200 or less each time. Means they can keep giving and giving and giving. And there are probably a shitload more of people who can give less than 200 bucks than can give $4600.


HRC did this to herself and is suffering fromt he consequence$!


http://opensecrets.org/pres08/donordems.asp?filter=A&sortby=S

[ecstatic]

83. Obama outspent Clinton because he outraised Clinton

He also out-managed Clinton and has surplus while Clinton has deficits.

More people believe in Obama than Clinton. More people are willing to put their money where their mouths are with Obama.

[krkaufman]

85. Actually, it may not, but it may, as well.

It all depends on who the money is coming from and in what numbers. And the CLinton v Obama numbers indicate Obama is raising money through smaller donations from far more voters, so it does appear that Obama is preferred outside of the elite. And Clinton doesn't have a lock on poor voters, so the "her supporters can't afford to donate" soundbite doesn't play.

Hillary's campaign might have more money to spend if it hadn't been so poorly managed.

[Life Long Dem]

88. Yeah but it sure helps!!

[mattclearing]

89. Or maybe there are more people in Pennsylvania that no amount of money could convince

to vote for a black man.

It is worth mentioning that economic hardship goes hand in hand with poor education, which, guess what, also goes well with racism, which is just another word for ignorance.

"I don't care too much for Obama," Maria Norgren, the daughter and granddaughter of steelworkers, said in the parking lot of the Giant Eagle shopping center here, near the Obama rally.

"I don't even think he's American," added her husband, Edward, who lost his job when the steel mills closed and now mans the counter at the Puff Discount Tobacco and Lottery shop next to the Giant Eagle.

"His father's from Nigeria, right?" asked Maria, wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers T-shirt.

"I think he just wants to be president because he's black," said Tim Hetrick, smoking a cigarette as he waited for a bus among the crumbling structures of downtown McKeesport. A Democrat, he's thinking about voting for McCain in November.

The discontent is common among the valley's hard-luck residents. Outside the Penn State campus hosting the Obama event, Jim Obley, who lost his job at a mental-health center, set up a folding chair so he could wave Hillary Clinton signs at the Obama supporters. "He said most Pennsylvanians are bitter and they need religion and guns," protested Obley, wearing a necklace with a gold cross. "We're not about that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/21/AR2008042102794.html?sid=ST2008042103408

[JVS]

90. Says the supporter of a candidate who has basically flogged a senate seat and presidential run...

out of her husband's endorsement and political connections. If anyone is relying on their "daddy" it's her.

[sniffa]

99. No shit

:hi:

[TheDonkey]

91. Proof of how America's education system is failing us

:eyes:

[barack the house]

92. BUT he is still the new guy so needed more promotion. You mean you don't know who Hillary is?

[barack the house]

94. It means that his voters actually honestly like the guy, where is the love if she has no funding?

[Orsino]

96. Winnning more personal contributions means the candidate is more popular.

Not winning as many personal contributions means a candidate is less popular, with a message not as resonant.

These things are valid ways to measure which candidate is "better."

[saltpoint]

97. I wonder if all those snow shovels were bought on credit or if the Clinton

camp put cash on the barrel for them.

[Eric Condon]

98. Your conflation of her campaign money woes and her "blue-collar appeal" seem to imply she's some

sort of down-on-her-luck, working class underdog taking on Obama's big political machine.

That's a good one.