A Guaranteed Hillary win in PA. How? - Almost 90% touch screen voting w/no paper record.

[cyberpj]

Knowing how close the Clintons got with the Bushes I'm betting this primary is why she's holding on for dear life. The problem is, polls show a really close race and she needs to win BIG. This should be interesting.

snip -
Almost 90 percent of Pennsylvanians will vote using touch screen voting machines that have no paper record of votes cast. Once you touch the screen, the machine can count your vote any way it's programmed. It can even give you a receipt indicating you voted for Smith and count your vote for Jones. These touch screens total their own votes, invisibly and without any outside checks. We can't watch and even if we could, we wouldn't know what to look for. Our election boards routinely sign contracts agreeing that the computer programs that count our votes are the trade secrets of the e-voting machine companies, no peeking. The companies even "refuse to promise that their products will work."

Our election process is not a serious one when you examine it to any degree but it is very popular with the politicians and the election boards that they populate.

Computer scientists at Princeton University and others have been able to hack touch screen voting machines successfully on repeated occasions. A candidate in Florida's 13th congressional district lost at least 14,000 votes and a seat in Congress in 2006 in a county with touch screens only, while surrounding counties had nothing like these vote losses. Congress promised a vigorous investigation but never delivered.

The situation in Pennsylvania is so bad that Common Cause rated the state at "high" risk for election problems in the 2008 election. In addition, a citizens' group in Pennsylvania is suing the state to decertify touch screen voting machines because they fail to provide an accurate vote count.



http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_michael__080420_election_fraud_in_pe.htm

[AtomicKitten]

1. We always knew the continued use of EVMs would render elections a crapshoot.

Congress has failed to make securing the vote a priority.

Anything could happen. :scared:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. Oh for Pete's sake.

Pennsylvania voted against Bush twice and kicked Santorum's ass out in 2006.

[PoliticalAmazon]

4. Hillary has used all of the Bush/Rove tactics. Why believe she would stop at vote fraud? n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. Do you have any evidence of fraud so far?

Or is she making a special exception for Pennsylvania?

[scheming daemons]

8. Actually, we just got the machines for the first time in 2004.

..in 2000... we had "chads" in most counties.

[cyberpj]

10. Thanks for posting that. I was looking for the year of major installation.

As a Delawarean I knew it was more of a widespread installation after 2000 but I wasn't sure about when they hit the 90% mark.

[rodeodance]

3. Is this the new meme for when Obama loses. Te he.

[harun]

18. It is the only explanation that makes sense to me since he is obviously the better candidate

Not that the American public is known for its awesome powers of character assessment.

[meow mix]

5. damn

that sucks

[Zachstar]

6. So far it seems they understand the problems and have a team of lawers ready to react.

There can only be a 1-2 percent difference before red flags start going up all over the place.

Now I agree that electronic Voting machines are EXTREMELY bad and one of the first things we need to demand of congress is laws banning direct CPU vote counting. and laws requiring a new class of machines that allow the user to easily see his vote being registered.

For PA and the GE I think we will be fine because there are MULTIPLE lawsuits and I do not think anyone could pay these companies enough to purposely skew the elections right now.

[Lena inRI]

7. Watch the GENERAL TABULATORS. . .

. . .don't know the technicalities but I DO know this was where corruption can occur from the 2002/2004 elections.

OBAMA TECHIES. . .ARE YA READY TO BE ON WATCH?

DOES OBAMA CAMPAIGN HAVE PEOPLE IN PLACE TO GUARD AGAINST REMOTE VOTE FLIPPING at General Tabulators?

Again, I'm not qualified to advise exactly how to do this. . .but I sure as hell know this has to be TOP PRIORITY for Obama campaign.

Nuf said!




:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. Lena - Why don't you start your own thread on this !! It's so important ! nt

[wowimthere]

12. She has Rendell and Machine & Associates... of course there will be vote rigging... but

a massive Obama turn out with vigilant eyes can trump their plan to steal the election.

[BzaDem]

13. Ugh. Accusing others of trying to rig an election without evidence is not the way to go.

In 2004, there was tons of evidence of cooked counting.

But now, you are accusing the other side of trying to rig an election, without any evidence. (And I don't mean evidence that it could happen; I mean evidence that Hillary would do it.) You give anyone actually serious about election reform a bad name, as people who will always blame a result they don't like on fraud.

[cyberpj]

14. "...evidence that Hillary would do it" - Seriously?

:rofl:

[BzaDem]

16. Yes. Seriously.

[BlooInBloo]

15. I'm more concerned about there being enough properly distributed polling booths for everyone.

[Peace Patriot]

17. This nutso, Bushite corporate controlled, non-transparent vote 'counting' system

is wide open to insider fraud. It is invisible. It is EASY. It is undetectable--except for inferences that we might draw from other evidence, for instance undoctored exit polls.

The public has NO RIGHT to review the **TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY** programming code that tallies the votes. With the fast-tracking of this system all over the country, during the 2002-2004 period, we lost public control over our elections.

That WAS the fascist coup. (Oct. '02, same month as the Iraq War Resolution.)

A "paper trail" does not significantly alter the riggability of electronic voting unless the paper is COUNTED. States with touchscreen systems have zero transparency (there is nothing TO count--no paper at all). Some states now have paper ballots that are optically scanned into the riggable electronics, but they do a ZERO handcount (New Hampshire is one). The paper is worthless, except in a recount (and then only about 3% is counted). And even the best states that require a paper trail do only a 1% automatic handcount--miserably inadequate in a TRADE SECRET code system.

Venezuela has electronic voting, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are counted--and they handcount a whopping 55% of the votes as a check on machine fraud.

Our system is ridiculous by comparison. It is more than riggable. It is made to order for insider rigging--by corporations with close ties to the Republican Party and far rightwing causes.

I do think we can outvote the machines--because they want to preserve this control over election results for future uses--they want to keep it in place--and don't want to be too obvious about it and alarm the people (which they risked in 04 by the Kerry-Bush flipover, cuz the stakes were so high; that started an election reform movement that they are still trying to kill). This means that voter turnout is very important. Rule of thumb, we need a 5 to 10 percent edge. And other factors DO matter--donations, organization (obviously), enthusiasm, media work--because they can't Diebold just anybody into office. The made candidate has to first get into position to be Diebolded. Long term, we MUST get rid of these machines. We MUST. I'm just talking about, what do we do in the meantime?

Now then, what will they use this high riggabilty for? (And what have they used it for already?) Do the fascists who control the code fear Clinton, or favor her? On the surface, you'd think they'd favor her. But we may not understand their full game. (What if it's to Diebold Clinton into the White House and then fully crash the economy, so that Democrats and liberals get blamed for all the Bush disasters that are already pending. The Clintons get the blame for the food riots and the breadlines, and the next 9/11, or whatever, then they bring in Hitler II.) I've wondered about the fact that Obama does better in the caucuses (no Diebold) than in the riggable primaries. But that is not always true. Obama won SC (a fully riggable system--not even a potential recount control). Is he the made candidate? It doesn't seem so. His supporters are wonderful--the key to reclaiming our democracy, a passionately activated citizenry. But what will he do, once in office? Hard to say these days, through the clouds of corporate news monopoly bullshit--and with so much money and power at issue.

One of the main purposes of this nutso fascist vote counting system may be to keep us guessing--confused, anxious, off-balance, suspicious, divided, disabled. Best advice for Tuesday: Observe and document everything you can. Connect with PA voter protection groups. Volunteer. Be there. Put public pressure on election officials. Support those analyzing the stats. And think long term. Think of November and beyond. Cuz this is likely to be a long, difficult struggle to get our democracy back. Restoring vote counting that everyone can see and understand must be our first priority.

[JTFrog]

19. We'll just send the Priest up to the cave to talk to the Oracle and wait for him to come back

and tell us who won.

[SIMPLYB1980]

20. Yawn.

[jalynn]

21. Oh my

if he loses, just blame it on no paper trail. That way it don't make him look so bad after spending so much time & money in that state. Yes election fraud will spin well :sarcasm:

[4themind]

22. This almost makes me not want to vote today

If you're going to bring up threads like this, and I understand the merit of it, could you please suggest something that people can DO about it right NOW? The problem is how do you PROVE if this has happened in hillary's case? (maybe there is a way to prove it, but on it's face it just seems like an untestable hypothesis, for the very reason why there's concern in the first place, there's no paper verification. It's a serious problem that NEEDS action by the congress, but as of right now, these threads discourage me from wanting to vote in the primary today, because I don't feel like it won't make a difference. IF they're going to steal this thing, then damit I'm going to at least make them WORK for it.