Question for Obama supporters re Hugo Chavez is a dictator...

[slipslidingaway]

Yesterday I heard Senator Obama state that Chavez is a dictator and is stirring up anti-American sentiment.

Do you agree with Senator Obama that Chavez is a dictator?

Thanks.

[onehandle]

1. I'm not committed to either candidate, but I do agree with Obama here.

And this is more evidence that Obama is a Centrist just like Hillary.

[slipslidingaway]

9. I disagree with Obama and Hillary and Bush :( n/t

[Fridays Child]

89. Me, too.

:)

[slipslidingaway]

95. Thanks, I have lots of great memories visiting my friend's

house during high school, but I also remember looking across the valley to those who were less fortunate.

[kmsarvis]

113. so do you consider yourself a "centrist"?

[mac2]

2. No.

His country is in great danger from the Americas Union President.

[LakeSamish706]

3. I do not agree with Obama on this point... Where is there any proof that...

Chavez is a Dictator? He was elected by the people, and in the most recent election he lived with the results (his loss).... Sorry but Obama is wrong on this one IMHO.

[DiceK]

6. Seriously?

He is a dictator. That does not mean he is not good for the country of Venezuela. But by all accounts he has curbed many of his peoples rights. If either of the candidates show support for Chavez the election will be lost. It's that simple.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Whatever!!! But he is not a Dictator.... He was elected by his people in a...

fair Democratic election.. (He didn't steal the election like others we know) Calling him a Dictator is absolute Bullshit... On your point about wining or losing the election, you might be correct.

The US Government would like to paint Chavez as being a Dictator, but they are also full of Shit.

[endarkenment]

77. Wrong on all the facts, other than that, great post!

[stillcool]

85. Sigh...

Venezuela page
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Venezuela_page/Venezuela_page.html

[EFerrari]

120. By "all accounts"? There are no credible accounts of him doing

any such thing. Really, check your facts before you slander people. That Obama or Clinton say these stupid things should just make us cringe at their ignorance.

[slipslidingaway]

11. When I called his campaign office they told me that he was

elected with 92% of the vote and controls much of the media.

:banghead:

[Zachstar]

14. Bingo!

Saddam was elected as well. As well as many dictatorships.

[slipslidingaway]

18. Bingo??? Where are these facts that the campaign office told

me?

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. Worst comparison of the week on DU. ( that's saying a lot.).

Chavez was elected and reelected in internationally scrutinized and monitored elections. Everyone ( *everyone*; including his defeated opponents)) agrees that there were no ballot restrictions and that Chavez won more votes than anyone else on the ballot.

Saddam's elections were sham elections and there is no comparison to be made.

[stillcool]

84. At least Venezuela has clean elections..

We could learn a thing or two from them. But who cares. Flag pins are where it's at!

[Kitty Herder]

51. That's funny!! They need to do their homework.

Chavez was elected with 6o%. And he absolutely does NOT control the media. The media in Venezuela is rightwing and hates him. One station was instrumental in the coup attempt against him.

Here's a good source for some info:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3009

[slipslidingaway]

59. Yes, that is what I think and could not believe what they were

telling me. I asked him where this 92% figure came from and he said it was in the movie "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

Somehow ??? he missed the other points in the movie about the media, the coup etc.

Thanks for the link.

[dansolo]

101. Did you correct them?

I thought his margin was something like 60-70% (and he also lost the recent referendum). Also, most of the media is owned and controlled by his political enemies.

[slipslidingaway]

105. I told him that I thought he had the number wrong and that the

most of the media was not controlled by Chavez, I also called back once I had looked up the figures to tell them to check their facts.

What I thought was really strange is that he said the 92% comes from the movie "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" which begs the question as to whether or not he slept through the rest of the movie.

:)

[pdxmom]

4. I work with a young girl from Venezuela, whose parents sent her to

the United States to escape what is going on there. I agree with Obama on this issue, after speaking with her extensively about what it is like in her country.

[LakeSamish706]

10. Did it ever occur to you that the parents of this young girl might be...

US (George Bush) supporters and would of course believe that Chavez is evil because he does not agree with Bush the Dictator?

[Zachstar]

15. What the fuck are you talking about?

Parents are GWB supporters in another country?

[LakeSamish706]

21. You read exactly what I wrote.... Have a problem with it, then get over it... n/t

[pdxmom]

33. No, it occurred to me that the corruption there is undeniable and it

is dangerous there. Did you know that the number of deaths in Caracus is equal to the number of deaths in Baghdad? It is horrible there, and the people are losing their rights on a daily basis.

I trust in this young lady's view, and she has first hand information from the street as to what it is like there. Just because a leader disagrees with Bush the Dictator doesn't mean that leader isn't also a dictator.

[LakeSamish706]

34. So how do you explain the fact that Chavez was elected overwhelmingly by a majority...

of his citizens?

[Lou Queb]

56. It depends on the socio-economic status of this girl's family...

and basing didtatorship on high mortality and poverty doesn't do it...this is common everywhere. I don't pretend that Chavez isn't beyond critizism, but it appears that he was elected fairly. It seems that Obama does what he should do as a politician.

[EFerrari]

116. Hogwash. Nobody is losing their rights on a daily basis

in Venezuela. lol

[slipslidingaway]

17. If the majority of the people do not agree with Chavez they

have the right to vote him out of office.

[eridani]

24. Yep. Anyone who can afford that is a white ruling class family.

Uppity brown people taking over everywhere, donchaknow.

[Mika]

27. I work with a Ven. woman who sent her son to Venezuela..

.. to get involved with Bolivarian movement.

After talking to her about Venezuela's struggle to get out from under the hegemonic jackboot of US corporatism (and going to Ven. myself) I disagree with Obama, Hillary, and Bush 100% regarding the 'dictator' RW regurgitation.

-

[Kitty Herder]

48. I'm sure the people in Venezuela who aren't wealthy enough to come here to

escape the nightmare of actual progressive reforms and some concessions being made for the poor would tell a different story. The poor are being helped by the government? We can't tolerate that!!


And watch "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." Read up on Venezuela's politics. Somewhere other than our right-wing mainstream media.

[SoCalDem]

94. Wealthy or upper classes always resist a populist leader

Populism is ALL about the "equalization" of resources.. Those who have it, always wants to keep it ALL.. whatever "IT" happens to be.. land..status..money..etc

[movonne]

5. I am a supporter of Obama ...I do not believe tha Chavez is a

dictator....

[slipslidingaway]

19. Thank you! n/t

[eridani]

7. Clinton and Obama both fully endorse US imperialism

What did you expect?

[slipslidingaway]

20. Now that I think is the sad truth :( ( n/t

[harun]

63. Yup, that is why they are the last two left (unfortunately)

[Zachstar]

12. Yes

His actions in the past year have indicated to me that he is little more than a dictator.

And yes I am aware he keeps donating heating Oil. Dictatorships use bread and games to keep their ratings high.

Sorry but he is just another asshole that needs dealing with. By dropping educational material into his territory and letting his people eventually overthrow him.

[slipslidingaway]

45. The US has been trying to get rid of him...

do elections in other countries count or not.

:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3157207&mesg_id=3157207

CIA Documents Show Bush Knew of 2002 Coup in Venezuela

Bush Officials Met With Venezuelans Who Ousted Leader

Correct the Facts on US-Venezuela Relations: Remember the Attempted Coup?

[ecstatic]

13. I think he's setting the stage to become one. He wanted unlimited

terms, which is fine if his voting system is perfect--but no voting system is immune to abuse. He would have become just as corrupt as Saddam Hussein.

[eridani]

26. But if he didn't get what he wanted, and abided by the results--

--NOW what is he?

[ecstatic]

28. Humbled... hopefully... nt

[LakeSamish706]

29. I tell ya, some of these posters blow my mind here.... They have the audacity to sit...

here (as US citizens that do live under an almost Dictatorship) and criticize a leader that is trying desperately to protect both his country and people.

[JerseygirlCT]

109. Yes, I agree. I'm not sure if we're there yet, but I think it's a distinct

possiblity. I will admit to thoroughly enjoying any tweaking of Bushco that Chavez has done, and I happily buy Citgo gas, but whether it comes from the left or the right, dictatorships are bad news.

[totodeinhere]

16. I don't agree that he is a dictator. But it should be pointed out that both Obama and Clinton...

agree on this and therefore it is not fair to single out Obama.

[slipslidingaway]

52. Both Clinton and Obama agree with the Bush administration

that Chavez is a dictator. The reason I posted this question is because Obama clearly stated this yesterday at a talk in Reading, Pa. and I wanted to know if supporters agreed with his position.

I have never been a supporter of either candidate.

[olkaz]

22. I agree 100%

And it blows my freaking mind how many sympathizers we have on here for Chavez.

Ugh.

[eridani]

25. It blows my mind how many sympathizers here we have with the white ruling class n/t

[Mika]

31. aka: oppressors. n/t

[Hugabear]

30. Do you honestly think that all Obama supporters are mindless robots?

Of course we're not going to agree with him 100% on every single issue. Please tell me that you don't agree with Hillary on every single issue either.

[Texasgal]

35. Geez... no kidding!

Jezuz... People are getting so wound up!

[Azathoth]

32. I think Chavez is the same as Bush, using demagoguery and the specter of foreign "evildoers"

to rev people into a nationalistic furor while he accumulates power for himself.

Does that make him a 'dictator'? Who knows.

[eridani]

37. Tell us how many countries Venezuela has invaded recently

The US has actually been a "foreign evil-doer" in all of Latin America for the last 150 years or so. Haven't heard that any of those countries ever attempted to overthrow our govermnent, or invest huge sums in trying to influence our elections.

[Azathoth]

43. Ah, OK

As long as the self-aggrandizing demagoguery is directed against evildoing imperialist America, everything is cool. I got it :smoke:

[eridani]

44. Imperial domination is evil, period. Irrelevant who is doing it

The US, China, Russia--all bad actors. When Venezuela puts 700+ military bases around the rest of the world, get back to me.

[slipslidingaway]

54. Exactly...thanks. n/t

[Renew Deal]

36. Chavez is a wanna be dictator at minimum

"Chavez Would Abolish Presidential Term Limit"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011000468.html

[eridani]

38. By that standard, the US never had a non-dictator president until Truman took office n/t

[Danger Mouse]

39. No...I don't agree with Obama. But I don't like Chavez either...

and I find it comical how so many DU'ers practically worship him.

[Terran]

40. He's not a dictator

He tried to become one (in the Roman sense) and was rejected. I'm an Obama supporter, and he's wrong on this one.

[slipslidingaway]

91. Thanks, I hope supporters share their concerns with his

campaign.

[ensho]

41. I heard him too, say that and it made me not trust him even more

to think that Obama has drank the Kool aide and thinks Chavez is a dictator.

Obama should turn around and look at the W.H. when he says dictator.

[redqueen]

42. So did Clinton say Chavez is not a dictator?

This is so frickin sad.

[slipslidingaway]

49. Clinton has referred to Chavez as a dictator as well. n/t

[redqueen]

50. I would think so. It's the US line.

I don't expect presidential candidates to go against certain memes.

If someone supports Hillary but claims that this influenced them about Obama they are not thinking clearly.

[slipslidingaway]

53. So we should just go along with the US line of calling him a

dictator?

[redqueen]

57. No... "we" are not running for president.

Candidates, though... well... they have to work with the whores in the press, and those whores answer to a higher power.

[slipslidingaway]

62. IMO He could have tempered his reply instead of stating

unequivocally that he is a dictator.

Once we establish that a country is ruled by a dictator it is easier to have the people go along with regime change at some point in the future.

:(

[redqueen]

65. We're past that point now though.

The M$M has already drilled that meme into most USisan's heads.

I trust Obama more than Hillary to resist 'regime change' in Latin America. We'll see how it goes...

[slipslidingaway]

70. Well of course they have because too many just went along and

did not challenge the administration and it does not appear as if anything will change in that regard.

[redqueen]

72. I don't know if it doesn't appear that anything will change...

I think there are certain things campaigns have to tread very carefully about during campaigns. Once the election is over, it's no longer necessary to walk such a fine line.

[slipslidingaway]

88. I wish Obama had treaded more carefully and not come right

out and declared him a dictator as so many in this administration have done. He was not walking a fine line. :(

I hate to bet on people changing their views once an election is over.

:)

[stillcool]

86. Standard Foreign Policy..

when it comes to Venezuela..

Venezuela Page at Third World Traveler
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Venezuela_page/Venezuela_page.html

[slipslidingaway]

103. Thanks for the link, I know it has been standard policy towards

Venezuela, but the question is should it be???

I am glad that Obama says he will speak to various leaders, but what he says now lays the groundwork for those talks.

:shrug:

Hope you were able to find some other links that provided his exact words from yesterday.

[ensho]

71. I was speaking about Obama

nt

[redqueen]

74. Yeah... thanks... I figured that out.

Do you support Clinton?

[CK dexter]

46. Absolutely not. This is an objective matter, not reasonably disputable.

Even Chavez enemies admitted that there was no question he had overwhelming popular support and all of the evidence clearly shows it was a fair election.

It is a fact, like evolution, global warming, and the absence of WMD in Iraq, that Chavez is not a dictator. As someone has pointed out, however, he does seem to be trying to set himself up to BECOME one, by using democratic means to disable the democratic process. As our own non-elected administration has tried to do.

Obama is pandering here, but I think he's right to do so. There's nothing to be achieved by pointing out this fact, and not playing along would be a lose-lose move.

I'm more concerned about whether or not Obama will, if elected, take steps to undo the anti-democratic work of the previous administration--preventing future dictators from seizing power in our own country. I'm a little concerned, since his "unity" platform would make criminal proceedings against Republicans difficult. I'm a little reassured by his statements indicating he'd consider it. I have no confidence Hillary would do anything potentially damaging to her second term electability, as this would be.

[JohnnyCougar]

141. Well said! n/t

[Kitty Herder]

47. Totally disagree. Unless we're degrading the definition of "dictator" to the point where

it's utterly meaningless. It's like newspeak.

Chavez was democratically elected in an internationally monitored election. By a wide margin.

Unlike our own President, rather than just declaring that he has the right to declare martial law, he put it to a vote. And when the people said no, the debate was over.

But in our current political discourse, Orwellian doublespeak reigns supreme and so Chavez, who was fairly elected and cannot declare martial law is a dictator. And Bush, who stole two elections and can declare martial law is NOT a dictator.

Of course, Obama can't say anything that disagrees with the consensus about Chavez. Can you imagine the heyday the media would have if he did?

[butterfly77]

55. I don't know for sure but..

I know Obama wouldn't be...

[crankychatter]

58. I don't

but I agree with him that Chavez has a bad attitude toward the US.

and that a more diplomatic and supportive tone would aid our relations with other south american countries

Chavez' attitude toward Bush is part of the reason I like him.

Obama has many ideas and has made statements that I disagree with.

I thought he fielded the question well.

[Imagevision]

60. Bush is a dictator so what's the biggie???

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. A democratically elected (not counting U.S. interference) dictator?

If that's the case than the Venezuelan people must want a dictator.

[Occam Bandage]

68. It's been done many times. Dictators need not be unelected or unpopular.

[endarkenment]

79. Which dictators were re-elected in fair and open elections?

Which dictators have been subject to recall at any time by the voters?

[Occam Bandage]

80. Putin, for one.

You can claim his re-election was not "fair and open" given the way he's marginalized his political opposition and exerted control over the media--but then again, Chavez has done the same.

[endarkenment]

81. Elections not fair and open

and that was noted at the time by european observers and for a variety of reasons. There is no free press, there is severe represssion from the police and Chavez has not done any of the same. Venezuela has a vibrant and free media and there simply is no comparison. International observers declared his election, re-election, recall victory and referendum defeat fair and open with few irregularities. Nor is Putin in any way subject to voter recall. Do try again.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. So? Even if true, it's what the majority of the people wanted.

Dictators can be extremely popular, as can monarchs, presidents, or tribal chiefs. They can also be repressive, tyrannical, criminal, and genocidal, no matter how they came to power.

Democracy is no guarantee of anything except putting some "leader" in office and bestowing power on him/her to do what the people refuse to do for themselves.

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
Thomas Paine

[slipslidingaway]

107. That is the question, do we trust the majority of people to

make their own decisions or not.

:shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

108. Maybe. But, to "trust" the government is folly.

All governments, leaders, and particularly the politicians who have attained power, through whatever means, inevitably fall under Lord Acton's axiom.

"Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

At some point, any "leader", in order to attain or retain power, will have to throw somebody under the bus...not excluding the people who put him/her in power.

[slipslidingaway]

112. Great points and I agree, there are few times in life where we

trust completely, elected officials certainly are not one of them.

:)

[JerseygirlCT]

111. Happens all the time

The question isn't about the election - it's more about whether elections *continue* to happen.

Hitler was elected, wasn't he?

[Lou Queb]

64. As a politician who's running a campaing for presidency, there are certain things he would avoid

saying I guess. It also depends on how you define dictatorship.

[Occam Bandage]

66. In many ways, yes. He is not a dictator in the old Franco-Mussolini mold, no. Rather,

much like Mr. Putin, and in some ways like Mr. Bush, Mr. Chavez is forging an updated form of authoritarianism uniquely suited to his place and time.

[SoxFan]

67. Yes, I do

[dbmk]

69. The main issue here

.. and mind you I am not a US citizen, and speak from my vantage point in Europe:

How will an administration deal with him, when taking over the White House?

Obama might know that calling him a dictator is a bit of a stretch. But he has not given himself a very tight leash in terms of how to deal with such when in power.

"You said he was a dictator!!"
"Yeah, and I said I would communicate with such, nevertheless"
Case closed.

Others might have a bigger problem taking a deliberated approach.

As far as whether he is a dictator... As someone said up above, he is elected in what appears to be legit elections. But as someone also said, he has used his power to garner support with the people to the degree of more or less buying it at times.

The real test is if the elections does not go his way. But until then I would personally hold back on the use of the word dictator.

As far as the girl send abroad by her parents - chances are very good that they represent some of the people or a class of people that tried to oust him with a military coup, and would therefore not come from a home that would exactly be popular in Venezuela neither very likely to tell their kids the truth.

A coup that failed almost comically, btw.

[ClayZ]

73. Chavez stirs up anti-bush sentiment!

Good for him!

[dbmk]

75. To a degree

Because such can also be used to distract the population from issues that you are not taking care of, and falsely unite them under a cause that does not alleviate their needs in their day to day lives.

Which would make him more like Bush.

Not saying it he does or doesn't though. Can't tell.

[endarkenment]

76. No of course not. I disagree with Obama on many issues.

What else is new?

[Crunchy Frog]

78. I am fully cognizant of the fact

that politicians have to say a great deal of stupid shit in order to be considered politically viable, and Obama is no exception. I'm not terribly happy about it, but I've learned to live with it.

[stillcool]

82. Absolutely Not..please provide the link!!

[slipslidingaway]

87. This was said yesterday at a town hall meeting in Reading, Pa.

I do not have a link and looked on youtube for a video, it was played on cspan last night.

Call his campaign office and ask them to verify his statement, this is the telephone number I called earlier today. And if you do not agree please let his office know...TIA.

To reach the Campaign Headquarters by phone, please call: [phone]


Found this...

Obama Wrong About Chavez

By Noisefactor - Apr 21st, 2008 at 1:02 am EDT

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/noisefactor/gGCCzr


"In answer to a question from an expatriate Venezuelan in Pennsylvania, Barack characterized Hugo Chavez as a dictator and he arrogantly dismissed Chavez's criticisms of "America." I'm sure Barack knew he was just playing politics, but there's no good reason to say that Chavez has been critical of "America" when in reality his criticisms have been mostly of Bush in recent years. Come on, Barack, you can do better. Find common cause with South American socialist movements. After all, the types of fairness you're advocating for lower-income workers are the same types of things Chavez has done for the poor of Venezuela. Is it too much to point out that Chavez did lose the recent referendum on his perpetual rule and *may* stand down? It's not so clear that he's any more of a dictator at this point than, say, Dick Cheney, who has also trampled all over his nation's laws. Frankly, I admire Chavez and I think it's counterproductive to pretend that the scare stories promoted by Bloomberg News and the Wall Street Journal are a realistic reflection of what Chavez has been doing. As Obama pointed out, Chavez has exported teachers and doctors to many needy countries in Latin America. It's about time to find common cause with the rulers of the world who are not dedicated to promoting warfare for profit, and I dare say Chavez is an ally in that mission."

[eleny]

83. No, I'm not with Obama in that assessment of Chavez

Chavez was democratically elected. Obama can learn some things about Chavez and I intend to share my opinion with him via email and calls to the White House.

[slipslidingaway]

90. Thank you. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

93. Agree completely.

Once again I am disappointed with Obama -- I really expect more that bullshit propaganda from him. :(

[eridani]

121. He already knows whatever you are going to tell him

He goes along with the anti-Chavez bullshit for the simple reason that he can't cross our elite thug class on the issue of US imperialism and still expect to be considered a viable candidate.

[anonymous171]

92. He's definitely an authoritarian leader and an asshole.

I don't trust him. That being said he's not a dictator, yet.

[EFerrari]

119. What leads you to believe he's an authoritarian?

lol

[jzodda]

97. I agree with Obama

n/t

[DerekJ]

98. I disagree with Obama.

[kwenu]

99. No. Chavez is a duly elected president who is corrupt and abusive.

[Hippo_Tron]

100. Chavez is a dictator like Putin was a dictator, so kinda but it remains to be seen..

And yes Chavez is stirring up anti-American sentiment. The American media is also stirring up plenty of anti-Chavez sentiment.

Now for the answer you were really looking for, I don't think Chavez is some big scary monster. I don't think he's a saint either.

[JohnnyCougar]

137. Chavez is the opposite of Putin.

He redistributes wealth to the poor. Lots and lots of it. He is turning that entire country around.

[Hippo_Tron]

152. That is true, but in terms of consolidating power there's some similarity

My point is that dictator is just a label. The same people who might apply it to Chavez wouldn't dare apply it to Putin.

[tritsofme]

102. Mr Obama has it right on.

Good to see.

[Bucky]

104. He's a tyrant & demogogue, but technically not a dictator

Close enough for horseshoes. Chavez has, on rare occasion, been checked by the constitutional processes in Venezuela. Big whoop, tho, cause you can say the same of Bush. I think both men would like to become dictators, but neither has gotten around to closing the deal.

[JohnnyCougar]

136. Why is he a tyrant?

Do tyrants turn their entire country around and make the government work for the citizens once again? Do tyrants increase the number of physicians tenfold in their countries? Do tyrants cut poverty rates in half? Do tyrants turn their country into one of the fastest growing economies in the world? Do tyrants feed the starving and teach millions of people to read?

[Bucky]

142. The answer to all your questions is yes, actually.

Tyrants, by virtue of their enhanced executive power, certain can and historically many have increased literacy, improved living conditions, and delivered efficient and expanded healthcare to their subjects. Despots from Alexander the Great to Kublai Khan to Fidel Castro have throughout history seized control of their nations and improved the lot of their people.

The flipside to Hugo Chavez is that he's scaring off the middle class. In the 21st century this is a basic stepping stone toward a stagnant, over centralized economy. Chavez is doing a lot of good with many of his social programs, but his economic policies are all really big bandaids. In the long run it's gonna bite Venezuela in the ass.

[EFerrari]

145. What may not be clear is that the "middle class" in Venezuela

is not like the middle class here.

There, they were clients of the oligarchy.

So, yes. There is going to be upheaval when you change the basic premise upon which your economy is based. Change happens.

And there are plenty of economists that refute the position that the Chavez government policies are "band aids".

[Writer]

106. I'll agree with Obama there.

And I support Clinton.

Just because Chavez waved a copy of Chomsky in the air and called Bush the devil does not make him a great democratic leader. He is far from it.

[JohnnyCougar]

135. Could you show some facts that say that he is a dictator?

By the way, the answer to that rhetorical question is "No." You don't have to answer.

[IsItJustMe]

110. I support Obama, but I disagree with him about Chavez. Seems like you can't have it all.

[slipslidingaway]

114. Thanks to all for the their replies, it appears DU is pretty much

evenly divided as to whether or not Chavez is a dictator.

I'm not sure that is particularly encouraging to me :( but it is what it is.

I would prefer that any elected official take issue with certain policies and dispense with the label of dictator as it is too easy to see everything through that particular lens. Not to mention the fact that like it or not, public opinion in the US is swayed by such labels.

Thanks again.

[slipslidingaway]

115. And just to be clear, Hillary has already labeled Chavez a

dictator, maybe Obama has before as well.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

118. He sounds pretty much like she does. Obama has said silly things

about Venezuela and about Cuba. He has some homework to do, that's for sure.

[slipslidingaway]

122. Yes, yes and yes :)) n/t

[EFerrari]

124. I scribbled this just after Mr. Castro stepped down about Obama's remarks:

Edit: Wrong link! :blush:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_080224_mr__castro_2c_senator_.htm

[slipslidingaway]

125. It is telling me I have to log in or register? n/t

[EFerrari]

128. Is this better?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_080224_mr__castro_2c_senator_.htm

[slipslidingaway]

129. Sadly no and thanks for trying, did you post it here as well? n/t

[EFerrari]

130. Ack! Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2917457

[slipslidingaway]

133. Thank you that works, I'll go read :) n/t

[slipslidingaway]

138. Great scribbling and this paragraph sums it up nicely...

thanks for taking the time to go back and find a link that worked for me.

:hi:

"...The American electorate can handle its candidates’ learning curve as long as it’s clear they are on one. Repeating the same old stale, inaccurate chants about Mr. Castro and Cuba will yield nothing for the repeater but to be filtered out as noise. Castro is mentor to the wave of democracy that is washing over Latin America. When you call upon Cuba to release political prisoners and ignore those the United States is holding, you not only damage yourselves with the electorate. You signal to the international community that they should expect more of the same self serving American myopia. And there is also a signal sent to the struggling democracies in Latin America under Mr. Castro’s wing: the Americans are at it again..."

[LTR]

117. Chavez isn't a dictator

He's an obnoxious asshole, though.

Harmless, nonetheless.

And where's the link claiming Obama said this?

[slipslidingaway]

123. See this link...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5600924&mesg_id=5603778

This was said yesterday at a town hall meeting in Reading, Pa.
I do not have a link and looked on youtube for a video, it was played on cspan last night.

Call his campaign office and ask them to verify his statement, this is the telephone number I called earlier today. And if you do not agree please let his office know...TIA.

To reach the Campaign Headquarters by phone, please call: [phone]


Found this...

Obama Wrong About Chavez

By Noisefactor - Apr 21st, 2008 at 1:02 am EDT

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/noisefact...


"In answer to a question from an expatriate Venezuelan in Pennsylvania, Barack characterized Hugo Chavez as a dictator and he arrogantly dismissed Chavez's criticisms of "America." I'm sure Barack knew he was just playing politics, but there's no good reason to say that Chavez has been critical of "America" when in reality his criticisms have been mostly of Bush in recent years. Come on, Barack, you can do better. Find common cause with South American socialist movements. After all, the types of fairness you're advocating for lower-income workers are the same types of things Chavez has done for the poor of Venezuela. Is it too much to point out that Chavez did lose the recent referendum on his perpetual rule and *may* stand down? It's not so clear that he's any more of a dictator at this point than, say, Dick Cheney, who has also trampled all over his nation's laws. Frankly, I admire Chavez and I think it's counterproductive to pretend that the scare stories promoted by Bloomberg News and the Wall Street Journal are a realistic reflection of what Chavez has been doing. As Obama pointed out, Chavez has exported teachers and doctors to many needy countries in Latin America. It's about time to find common cause with the rulers of the world who are not dedicated to promoting warfare for profit, and I dare say Chavez is an ally in that mission."

[alcibiades_mystery]

126. No, I don't...do I care? No

I don't have to agree with a guy on everything to think he will be better for the country than everybody else running.

Oh, the hypocrisy!

It's called being an adult.

[bhikkhu]

127. A quote (full sentence, at least) and a link, or the OP is worthless.

[EFerrari]

131. There are links in the thread and you always have the google . . . .

[bhikkhu]

132. It belongs in the OP, or the OP is garbage.

My two cents.

[slipslidingaway]

134. The media is most likely too busy discussing the important

issues, before saying it is garbage you can check with his campaign office tomorrow, the number is below.

Quote...

"Hugo Chavez is a dictator."



See this link...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5600924&mesg_id=5603778

This was said yesterday at a town hall meeting in Reading, Pa.
I do not have a link and looked on youtube for a video, it was played on cspan last night.

Call his campaign office and ask them to verify his statement, this is the telephone number I called earlier today. And if you do not agree please let his office know...TIA.

To reach the Campaign Headquarters by phone, please call: [phone]


Found this...

Obama Wrong About Chavez

By Noisefactor - Apr 21st, 2008 at 1:02 am EDT

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/noisefactor/gGCCzr


"In answer to a question from an expatriate Venezuelan in Pennsylvania, Barack characterized Hugo Chavez as a dictator and he arrogantly dismissed Chavez's criticisms of "America." I'm sure Barack knew he was just playing politics, but there's no good reason to say that Chavez has been critical of "America" when in reality his criticisms have been mostly of Bush in recent years. Come on, Barack, you can do better. Find common cause with South American socialist movements. After all, the types of fairness you're advocating for lower-income workers are the same types of things Chavez has done for the poor of Venezuela. Is it too much to point out that Chavez did lose the recent referendum on his perpetual rule and *may* stand down? It's not so clear that he's any more of a dictator at this point than, say, Dick Cheney, who has also trampled all over his nation's laws. Frankly, I admire Chavez and I think it's counterproductive to pretend that the scare stories promoted by Bloomberg News and the Wall Street Journal are a realistic reflection of what Chavez has been doing. As Obama pointed out, Chavez has exported teachers and doctors to many needy countries in Latin America. It's about time to find common cause with the rulers of the world who are not dedicated to promoting warfare for profit, and I dare say Chavez is an ally in that mission."


Edited to fix the links----

[bhikkhu]

140. I probably agree with your position, but how many 100's of posts against no quote?

What did he say and what was the context?

I can say that I likely agree with you, and I do agree with the poster at the link cited, but I have yet to see a quote or context for the alleged controversy we are allegedly discussing.

[slipslidingaway]

143. C-span lists the video from the event or you can call his

campaign office as I suggested in my prior reply. Not much I can do if the media decides not to write about his reply to a question at that town hall meeting.

If the media does not write about it then it never happened?

Also there are some clips on youtube from this meeting but none of his supporters chose to post that segment.

:shrug:

Call his campaign office and ask whether or not he said Chavez was a dictator, they confirmed it for me yesterday.

http://c-span.org/

Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) in Reading, PA (April 20, 2008)
Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) conducted a Town Hall Meeting in Reading, Pennsylvania.
Reading, PA : 1 hr. 15 min.

[JohnnyCougar]

139. Anyhow, it's obvious that I strongly disagree with Obama.

He'll probably still get my vote, though.

[slipslidingaway]

144. Thanks and if I had to pick one of the remaining two it would

be Obama as well, but that does not mean he gets a free pass.

:)

[Straight Shooter]

146. He is not a dictator. He is an authoritarian.

I'm splitting hairs, but he was duly elected. He overcame a coup. He is not a dictator, but he exercises authoritarian rule.

I think any politician is pandering by referring to Chavez as a dictator. That sounds like a real right wing talking point, and I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct people who blithely say, "Chavez is a dictator." I'm tired of the nonsense.

[EFerrari]

150. There's no evidence that he's even an authoritarian.

If you watch any of the documentaries that are current, he doesn't come off that way at all. And his government has been nothing but circumspect when dealing with the multi-national backed oligarchy.

Why do people believe he's an authoritarian?

[judasdisney]

147. If you want Habeas Corpus & Civil Liberties, Move to Venezuela

I've had enough of Hillary. Now I've seen enough of Barack, if he's calling Chavez a "dictator."

Facts matter. But Americans don't care much about facts. If DU'ers like "One Handle" (post #1) are this egregiously stupid, then there is no hope for the U.S.

Get me the fuck out of this wasteland.

[killbotfactory]

148. No.

Venezuela is a democratic country, whether our government and their propaganda corps in the media like it or not.

[Freddie Stubbs]

149. Do you have a link to back this up?

:shrug:

[slipslidingaway]

151. See reply #143 and #134 or CALL [phone] and ask

them to verify, tomorrow might be less busy.

[Dr Fate]

153. related thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5623276&mesg_id=5623276

[Dr Fate]

154. kick

k