Hillary's smearing Obama with "Farrakhan" may make it impossible for me to ever vote for her.

[David Zephyr]

I just can't let it go.

The smear that Mrs. Clinton used to to falsely tie Barack Obama to Reverend Farrakhan in the ABC Debate last week has become the straw that broke the camel's back.

I may not be able to support Hillary Clinton for any office ever.

That was the most despicable thing I've seen in a Democratic Debate ever.

Racist? Yes.

Vile? Yes.

Fearmongering? Yes.

A Lie? Absolutely.

I imagine the Clintons will now win Pennsylvania.

I no longer like her...at all.

[Ian David]

1. You must reject you Inner-Kyle! Support the eventual Democratic Nominee. n/t

[truebrit71]

4. I will support the eventual Democratic Nominee...as long as it isn't her...

...She can go pound sand as far as I'm concerned..

[maxsolomon]

2. GOOD NEWS

unless you live in NY, you wont have to.

she ain't winning this one.

[Diamond Dog]

3. It's hard to vote for a Democratic Leadership-style corporatist with a grin on your face.

I might find the strength to put my hand to my nose, but I'll be damned if I have the fortitude to do any sort of campaigning for her.

[rox63]

8. Stock up on clothespins if she manages to somehow steal the nomination n/t

[saracat]

5. Falsely? Barack "marched " with him. His church gave him an award that

Barack did not protst? What is "false about his ties to Farakan. He even traveled with him!

[gcomeau]

9. Ahem...

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/04/rendell-praises.html

Please... continue... don't let me interrupt.

[saracat]

15. So? That is Rendell, not Clinton herself. Barack personally marched with Farakan.

This isn't just a degree of seperation like wright.This is a "pe4rsonal tie. Show me Clinton traveling with Ferakan.

[gcomeau]

24. Obama personally marched...

...with a million freaking people.

Clinton attacked Obama on national television last week for being connected to Farrakhan through his church honoring him... when her own number one surrogate in Pennsylvania did the exact same damn thing.

[David Zephyr]

35. Makes it sound like they were walking hand in hand, huh?

It's amazing how one man in an intra-demoninational march with one million other men is falsely hyped to "personally walked with". Thanks for your pointing this out.

[cali]

14. links that he traveled with him. And there is NOTHING wrong

with his having participated in the million man march. racists seem to think it was terrible. liberals don't.

[saracat]

17. You just love applying the word "racist" to anyone who doesn't agree with your

candidate. I think the million man arch was revolting for many reasons none of them racist.And I am a LIBERAL .

[ErinBerin84]

19. Please describe the reasons.

I ask you seriously, I am an Obama supporter but I am interested in your opinion. Thank you in advance.

[saracat]

77. It was promulgated by the nation of Islam and was sexist, racist

and anti-semetic in much of its religious overtones.

[cali]

20. I was NOT calling you a racist.

and I don't know if you're liberal or not.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

48. I am. She is.

Search her recent posts. She's obsessed with Obama's black-ness.

[saracat]

76. Really? Prove it? Links? I could care less about Barack's "blackness".

I have mostly posted about my outrage that so called racism is more important than sexism.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

78. I bet if an African-American woman were beating Hillary right now, your head would explode.

Or you'd just say nobody was paying enough attention to ageism or something else.

[saracat]

79. You know nothing. One of my favorite candidates in 2003 was Carol Mosley Braun and I was

privileged to get to know her.I admire her greatly and would have been thrilled to see her be President.Hillary was not my original choice in this rodeo but you believe whatever you want to.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

80. She was a credit to her race, huh? nt

[woolldog]

31. what's wrong with the million man march?

Do you know anything about it and what the purpose behind it was?

or are you just scared (or "revolted" to use your term) at the thought of a million black men marching?

[Window]

39. Revolting???

:wtf:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Buzz Clik]

23. And Hillary had the racist pig Ferraro on her advisory board.

Hillary renounced her just as Obama renounced Farrakhan. Not good enough? Then you condemn them both.

[ErinBerin84]

28. I was always pissed off

how RIGHT after the debate in which she pulled the whole "denounce AND reject" thing on Obama, when Clinton was asked about the comments made by Adelfa Callejo on a local station, she had a complete NON-ANSWER about how people have their own opinions or some bullshit, and then her campaign later came to its senses and said that Hillary had not seen the comments in context. Um..couldn't she have asked for context? Did she have to have Mark Penn do polling before a response could be determined?

[ErinBerin84]

dupe

deleted

[ErinBerin84]

29. dupe

deleted

[psychopomp]

32. It may surprise you but even PA Gov. Rendell supports Farakhan and the NOI

Have you seen the Governor effusively praise Minister Farakhan and the Nation of Islam? He is practically gushing, here:

Pennsylvania Governor Rendell Praises Farrakhan and N.O.I.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DXum_-8I1TA

[beachmom]

38. Disgusting how you turn your back on the AA community. Was the Million Man March all about

antisemitism, or was it about sending a message to black men to better their lives, increase their self esteem, and take care of their families? Wasn't that a good thing for single mothers? Bill Clinton himself praised the Million Man March at the time. I know I thought it was a good thing. So it ends up that Farrakhan, who organized the event, was not a leader and has now fallen from grace. At the time, he was a minor celebrity, albeit a controversial one, and was in Time magazine and other publications with "mixed reviews". Over the years, we have re-evaluated and decided he peddles in hate and has been marginalized. But at the time of that march, you will find many mainstream Democrats who praised it, and that march got total blanket coverage in the media. I remember watching it live.

But I guess tearing down Obama with smears and lies is now okay? Using revisionist history to destroy someone is fine and dandy.

Edit: and "MARCHED with FARRAKHAN"? Next to or just one of the million people there? Big difference.

[roguevalley]

59. Hillary has has done the same. Rendell, mr. penn, praised them

and SO DID BILL. God, isn't this primary over?

[Emit]

60. Obama traveled with Farrakhan?

Link?

[Catherina]

73. Millions of Black people even marching together

:scared: Hold me mommy, I'm scared.

[Spider Jerusalem]

75. Do you even have any idea at all what the Million Man March was about?

Do you really think that it's a bad thing that Obama took part in something that was aimed at getting African-American men to take more responsibility for their communities, their families, and their children? Would you be denouncing Obama for participating if it had been organised by John Lewis? Or Jesse Jackson? Or Al Sharpton?

For that matter, do you actually know anything about Louis Farrakhan, apart from the standard media portrayal of 'scary anti-Semitic white-hating extremist'? Because it really doesn't sound like it.

[virtualobserver]

6. luckily, you won't have to vote for her

it is a scenario that won't ever come up in real life, unless you live in new york

[BklynChick]

11. i live in NYS and already decided she will never get my vote for Senate either

[NavyDavy]

7. then don't come aound here whining about how bad mcinsane is doing

[JuniperLea]

10. She shouldn't do that

Both candidates have had evil people endorsing them... none of it is right and none of it should be furthered here on DU.

[NavyDavy]

18. ain't that the truth.....both sides are also so stubborn that its not

even funny anymore! it used to be funny watching the back and forth now its hust plain disgraceful, when you go lurking on rw sites and you see them using qoutes from here to show how disorganizned and how much unity we do not have to go against the reeal enemies....the rw noise machine, mcinsane and the "msm"

[JuniperLea]

40. I hear that

I keep reading here how Hillary is hurting the party because she won't drop out of the race... I have a different view... I think the only people who are hurting the party are the damn whiners who say crap like this. The whiners are hurting the party! Ugh.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. You never had any intention of voting for Hillary under any circumstances.

So knock off all the bogus outrage.

[David Zephyr]

36. Your accusation does not match the facts.

First of all, I voted at two national conventions (1992 and 1996) for Bill Clinton's nomination from the floor. I've carried water for the Clintons than most everyone here. Second, I was very, very close to supporting Hillary throughout all of 2007. Peruse the archives.

That said, my OP stands. I don't know if I can ever support her in any capacity as an elected official within the party I love.

You might ask yourself, why is it that so many die-hard Clinton loyalists like myself now are walking away from them for good. Why is that? Ponder it.

[KoKo]

45. No...I think like many of us you were disillusioned with the Clintons when you knew Obama

was going to run. And, he was running before '07. And...I don't fault you for your disillusionment with the Clintons...because I also was worried about them. Tom Hayden supports Obama and you have worked with him...so I think his support for Obama also meant alot to you.

But, I don't think we will be forced to "hold nose" and vote for Hillary...because it isn't working out that way. But, who knows...there can always be a "surprise" by the "PTB." :shrug:

[David Zephyr]

50. Actually, Clinton was the compromise. I was a Brown delegate.

I'm glad that you and Ariana Huffington have become liberals at long last. It proves there is hope for everyone.

[KoKo]

66. .. always been a liberal/populist...

it's unkind of you to do some comparison with RW Huffington who then changed her mind...just like David Brock. I wonder sometimes who you have me confused with ...or if you are just very judgemental and see what you want to see in people. Whatever......it's neither here, nor there...in the scheme of things, really. It's a political discussion board...we have to hope for diversity of opinion.

[Bigleaf]

13. David, what took you so long?

[David Zephyr]

37. 1.) I love the Democratic Party. 2.) I want to believe the best in people.

That said, I do not like the Hillary Clinton that is campaigning this year. Perhaps I never knew her or perhaps she has changed. The result is still the same.

That's why it took me so long.

Your train wreck graphic is sad, but true.

[KoKo]

69. Well...it's good to always believe in the "best" in people. What Dem could disagree with that? n/t

[Kurovski]

16. I'm voting for whoever the Democratic party puts up.

Please, please join me.

McCain is crazier than a shithouse rat. That is no joke. He's called "McSame " for a very good reason.

I'll take a questionable candidate over loony any day of the week. Sitting out this dance is an un-affordable luxury. There may not be too many dances left, at this rate.

Please.

[Diamond Dog]

22. I'll vote for 'it', but will not support 'it'.

I will not campaign for or contribute to her, and I will not defend her before Republican friends and family members.

[Kurovski]

34. Good enough.

You don't have to lie. I'll defend her if there is some truth in that defense, and I'd defend her honestly, in as much as she represents the party itself.

I know. It won't be easy.

[madrchsod]

21. well if the truth be told farrakhan has moderated his rhetoric

since he`s been battling cancer...yup i guess during those cancer days he got the hint that if he "accept" well he`d be in a place he wishes he would`t.

farrakhan is no angel but he`s not the devil either..

[JuniperLea]

54. I thought he was trying to "do the right thing"

During the whole Million Man March deal...

[zulchzulu]

25. What's hilarious about it is how Rendell is on video praising Louis F

That video needs to played non-stop TODAY!

[burythehatchet]

26. Heck, I knew who she was the moment she damanded an aplogy from Kerry

for his joke....during the election.

[Buzz Clik]

27. Recall the early debate (Obama/Clinton one-on-one) when this came up?

Obama and the moderator went around as Obama at first simply distanced himself from the anti-semitic remarks, but the moderator wanted more. He wanted Obama to condemn the remarks; he did just that and Hillary nodded vigorously and exclaimed, "Good!"

Now this shit is back.

Goodbye, Hillary. I won't miss you.

[H2O Man]

30. I consider what some

of the people are doing to be dangerous. I understand that they may not be aware of the implications, but it is still wrong. Let me explain.

Many of us older DUers recall the April 10, 1964 edition of "Muhammad Speaks," the NOI paper. It featured a cartoon of Malcolm's decapitated head, along with an ugly article by Farrakhan. Years later, Imam Wallace D. Mohammad told a journalist, "What stays in my mind is a picture that had Malcolm with horns on his head, and they were calling him a Judas. The cartoonists had made him with horns, and his head had been severed, and it was rolling down a hill or something. The language of the ministers in the paper -- I know Farrakhan was one of them, but there were other ministers, too -- I read their language and said to myself, 'They're trying to get him killed. They want him dead.' "
(Malcolm X: Make It Plain; Cheryll Greene; page 174)

Rubin Carter told me that this message was read by some mentally-dead people, who then killed Malcolm. The mentally dead people believed that their "nation" was threatened by Malcolm.

Today, in the larger society -- and primarily to the right of the republicans -- there are mentally dead people who read the shit about Farrakhan, and see that silly photo of Barack in garb, and hear the Hannity-types ranting about Obama's middle name, and they believe the whack-job congressman who said Obama isn't fit to be president.

We need to be careful to not feed the climate of hatred. The Southern Poverty Law Center's reports show about a 40% rise in hate groups in the USA under President Bush. We do not benefit as a society by increasing the amount of fear and hatred that there is. The NY Times and other news services have reported that there is a high level of security for both Clinton and Obama -- which I think is important. But it is larger than just that: it is the type of society that we want to become. We do not want to give vile hatred a rat hole to slink out of.

[mmonk]

41. Yes, this is what bothers me.

There are a few sick people out in America right now being filled with hateful spew everyday by rightwing radio. It's a volatile mixture and it should be condemned. I can't wait until this primary is over. I'll never be the same in some regards. Even people in my own party surprise me sometimes.

[H2O Man]

46. We have had

the opportunity to have a meaningful discussion on important issues, such as racism and sexism. But some segments of our party are not up tothe task. And so the discussion descends to a lower level, and the opportunity may soon be in the past.

[KoKo]

51. There are "practical reasons" that some feel are important to "THEM" that

means that many of our "altruistic ambitions for the Dem Party" will, in the end, go back to Drudge and Limbaugh and their ilk. They wait...and are "partially muzzled" by the McCorporate Media because we DEMS have the FLOOR right now...but like the cockroaches they are ...they are only hiding from the light and bait of the exterminator. They are there and waiting and any Dem who thinks that they've been swept away by new thoughts and a new movement will understand.

What we have gone through ...didn't "vanish in the night" with Bush/Cheney at 28% in the Polls. They laugh at that number because LOOK AT WHAT they've ACHIEVED with low polls for YEARS! Shut down Congressional Investigations, Signing Statements that shoot down the Corrective Legislation of our newly elected '06 Congress, and Oil and Gas Prices Through the Roof, Stock Market, Bank, Meltdowns. YET........THEY LIVE!!!!!!!!

THEY LIVE! Because they KNOW THEIR POWER and when the fawning, preening laughing Cable and Network Newsies laugh in our faces ..snicker and chortle....Why is that? If they TRULY THOUGHT either OBAMA OR CLINTON would WIPE THEM OUT...they would be scrambling to get every liberal person they could to replace Blitzer,Russert, Faux Anchors, crap analysts and CNBC would be decimated...along with all the rest to get the BEST LIBERAL VOICES in there to cull favor with the NEW DEM ADMINISTRATION that just MIGHT roll back all that Media Deregulation.

They KNOW...They KNOW...it's a done deal who gets into the Presidency.

[H2O Man]

52. I agree.

However, when I say that it's a done deal that Obama gets the democratic nomination and wins in the fall, some say that I'm overconfident.

[KoKo]

55. I don't think you understood what I wrote...then...

...because what you say would be quite frightening... I did an edit..because of typo's and further additions... I don't think you would be agreeing with me that either Obama OR Clinton would be President there because of the "Powers that Be" who "support the media, and are in bed with the Power Structure that rules us, now" That's what I was saying...but don't think you would agree with that... :shrug:

[H2O Man]

57. Another option

might be that I was teasing you. Good-natured teasing, because I am confident that Obama is likely to be elected president, in spite of what the "powers-that-be" desire.

[KoKo]

61. ah....that's the likely scenario....I'm so serious...I often miss those who

are sharper witted than I about humoring those who are very serious...

[H2O Man]

70. Oh,

I'm serious, too. I'm very serious about Obama winning, despite the opposition from powerful forces in this country. I am serious in thinking that the grass roots and the Constitution are potentially the most powerful force in the country. When we are united in trying to do what is right and good.

That seriousness allows me to approach this election in good humor. I believe we are in one of the most difficult struggles in our country's history. A rational person might say that we have little chance of success. I admit to being one of those people who thinks that the little chance is good enough. I say let's play these cards, and let's win.

[KoKo]

71. Norm Solomon had a good article about this posted on DU today...

it was a scenario about why we would have more hope for change with Obama than Clinton. I did agree with it...but am not quite so trusting to think that we don't need to work 24/7 to keep Obama's feet to our fire if he wins the nomination. It's pretty much Solomon's scenario...that Obama would be the one the Progressives would have a better chance getting the attention of.

[Catherina]

33. I hate to slightly disagree

That was despicable but she's gone even lower than that now. :(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5605197&mesg_id=5605197

[KoKo]

56. Her Campaign has been very "messed up." It's hard to know where she comes from

sometimes. I don't have the "hate" for her...that many here do...so, I've tried to watch her. It's not been easy to see all her mistakes and starts and stops. And, it's been very difficult to try to deal with Bill ...and the whole thing.

But, then...as I've said over and over...NEITHER ONE was the candidate of my hopes. :-( I'm just trying to sort out the best of the two left standing. The Obama supporters have turned me off him because of their posts on DU (hardly the "unity" that Obama espouses) and....Hillary's Campaign has been such a mess...I don't know what to think...except that it's not what I would hope to see from the "Clintons" at this point in our history in America.

BTW...My Primary is May 6th...so that's why I'm still agonizing.

[Catherina]

74. If you're agonizing and supporters are getting to you, step back

This isn't a popularity contest. We're taking millions of lives into our hands for millions of people who have no say in how our foreign policy affects them. We're also voting for the best person to get this country back on track economically so more Americans aren't tossed out on the streets homeless and can get medical care when they need it. It's not about us, if us is getting to you, step back and clear your head. I wish you luck.

[NJmaverick]

42. Your feelings are understandable

Hillary is burning her bridges in her vain quest for power.

[sniffa]

43. I love watching different people reach this point at their own benchmark

Some reached it much earlier, some later than that, some more recently, and those in the future.

[KoKo]

44. dupe.

[AtomicKitten]

49. Her IWR & Kyl-Lieberman votes and the way she has run her campaign make it impossible for me

to vote for her. Ever.

[Emit]

53. It's really bothering me, too

[jillan]

58. Oh David- you make a post like this every other week.

[David Zephyr]

65. Well, not in a few weeks. I've been away.

But, the Farrakhan jab was really wicked. I doubt that even McCain would have done such a shitty thing.

[OzarkDem]

62. Got a link?

Or do we have to take your word re Hillary's remarks?

[David Zephyr]

63. I guess you missed the debate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=53f4ru6GCpU

[KoKo]

64. Yeah...where the heck is that link? I didn't bother to ask because of all the anti-Hillary stuff

posted here...I figured it was another "thingy" the anti-Hillary folks were getting winged out about. But, because I knew who David was...I answered more personally.

Where the heck is the link? What else has Hillary done...and do we need it VERIFIED. If we don't even bother with links anymore...that's kind of discouraging...and, I'm guilty for not askin!

[David Zephyr]

72. In the post above yours.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=53f4ru6GCpU

[TML]

67. I will not have electoral relations with that woman

Hillary Clinton will never get my vote. Period.

[KoKo]

68. lol's....

[Evergreen Emerald]

81. I know how you feel. When Obama called Clinton "Racist!" to win SC, he lost me

I could never support someone who used his race to divide America and to smear a candidate, knowing it was false.

[yardwork]

83. You need to get over it, too, if Obama is the nominee. McCain is crazier than W.

[yardwork]

82. Well, get over it if she's the nominee. McCain is crazier than W.