My sort-of liberal brother is thinking of voting Bush

[Armstead]

My brother might be called a middle-of-the-road guy with liberal tendencies. In general he supports moderate liberal positions and votes Democratic, but doesn't consider himself liberal and has somwe hard-ass positions.

He dislikes Bush very strongly. He thinks the war in Iraq was a mistake and was screwed up.

But he's considering voting for Bush. He sees it as a "lesser of two evils" race, and he is actually tending to believe that of the two, Bush is the lesser evil. He really doesn't like Kerry. Not because Kerry's a "liberal," but because he doesn't like him and doesn't trust his lack of consistency.

I'm trying to convince him that ABB is what's most important. He'll probably end up voting for Kerry. But it is worrisome that someone who is anti-Bush and is a classic moderate centrist Democratic type is verging on being more anti-Kerry.

Kerry needs to do some convincing of people like my brother. ABB apparently isn't enough.

[lancdem]

1. Kerry hasn't even picked his VP yet

or been nominated. Tell your brother to wait a few months at least.

[bluestateguy]

2. If he's not in a swing state, I'd leave him alone

I don't waste time with swing voters in places like Texas or Rhode Island.

[stellanoir]

7. LOL. . .hey bluestateguy. . .

does that mean that you don't waste time with yourself. . .?

No seriously, I do get your point but I also think this flip flopping issue has most unfortunately stuck and how Kerry could be the most consistantly Liberal Senator in his voting record and be a flip flopper at the same time is beyond the pale.

[info being]

3. Kerry needs to do something

I'm starting to question my support of him as well. I want my vote to represent ABST - Anything but the Status Quo

I'm not sure Kerry would deliver that. So I guess we have no viable choice. Funny how that works.

[SquireJons]

13. Kerry is the status quo

But so what? Booosh is genocide and bankruptcy.

Easy choice: ABB!

I'll take Kerry, Nader, Sharpton... or even bluestateguy. My dog (or dung) would make a better president than *.

It seems like everyone I know is conservative (I live in Virginia) yet most of them are highly critical of booosh. They don't like Kerry, but they don't like what's going on even more. The really cool thing about that is that many of them will choose not to vote, which will give congress back to the Dems. Then we can investigate the living crap out of these criminals and send many of them to jail. This will not be another Iran/Contra cover up. Powerful people are gonna take a big fall.

[historian]

4. enlighten him

its not a question of who runs against bush - it is imperative the cabal of nazi thugs be removed as soon as possible.
Besides,inconsistency is another word for someone capable of thought - he doesnt come to a decision and stick to it no matter what. Bush is consistent simply because he is incapable of thought.

[Richardo]

Bush has flip-flopped WAY more than Kerry...

They're hanging that label on Kerry and it's sticking (crap!).

[fob]

5. Let me see if I got this right. Consistently cheneying up the world

equals good equals bush* vote.

Believing someone is inconsistent in whatever equals bad equals Kerry NO vote?

Sounds like if you just get him to committ to staying home will be a victory.

I wish you success.

[Worst Username Ever]

6. My girlfriend is the same f*ing way

She says she is a dem, but voted for Bush last election and says she is going to vote for him again this year (the whole "not wanting to change horses in mid stream" sort of thing). Being an enlightened liberal-type, I believe women should have their own opinions even if they differ from their men fold (imagine!) and don't try and sway her too much, but it is frustrating as hell.

I tried this analogy, and it seemed to at least give her pause: If I took my car to a mechanic, and CHOSE that mechanic, but then the mechanic completely f'd up my car, would I trust that mechanic to fix it, or would I choose another mechanic althogether?

Personaly, I am just hoping she does a little more reading on her candidate, and maybe says "fool me once, shame on you, fool me..er..uh..shame on the other guy terra terra murkins."

[Cheswick2.0]

Take her to see F9-11

!

[PlanetBev]

20. Hey Shylock

Tell your girlfriend that Bush will have 3 to 4 picks on the Supreme Court if he gets in again. She might as well stamp her uterus with "Property of the USA".

[Worst Username Ever]

23. YES!!!

She is pro-choice as hell, and I HAVE tried to explain that! Amazing! We are so cheney-d if Bush wins. I think she just does not understand politics. Apathy! god!

[Pushed To The Left]

28. Shylock, I know how it is!!

My girlfriend is a fairly moderate, socially liberal Republican. She's pro-choice, pro-gay-rights, anti-discrimination, and even supports national health care! But she is 100% behind Bush this election. Her main reasons seem to be that she thinks that Kerry will be soft on terrorism and "flip-flops". I am constantly bringing up social issues where she is closer to Kerry than Bush, but she isn't changing her mind any time soon. I already asked her about F911 and she does not want to see it. So I know how you feel!!

On the bright side, both of my Republican parents prefer Kerry over Bush! Not surprising for my father, but very surprising for my mother, who tends to be a much more conservative voter.

[Hoping4Change]

8. The irony is that its Bush who is inconsistent he has flip-flopped

consistently. He's mada all sorts of pronouncements that he then backed way from or did the opposite. Kerry's campaign has to go on the offensive, they seem to laid back.

[NJCher]

9. the response to "flip flop" is....

Kerry has had 25 years in the Senate.

The main job of a senator is to compromise so that the best interests of the most people can be met.

Kerry has done his job well.

Anyone in that position who has done his job well could be labelled a "flip flopper."

End of argument.

Your brother's position is so irrational that it sounds like there might be other factors at work. Are you sure he's not just trying to annoy you?


Cher

p.s. I got the above argument from Al Franken

[Armstead]

24. We're always trying to annoy each otehr

THat's one of the basis of our sibling relationshiop. But I can tell when he's serious.

He doesn't just not like Kerry. He says he actively dislikes him. I worry there are enougb more like him to make a difference.

[SquireJons]

10. Here's the problem:

Kerry has zero charisma. Make that minus ten in the charisma dept. Asked on MTV if he was 'cool', Kerry squirmed and looked as though his hemorrhoids were acting up (of course he usually looks that way), then he stammered 'uh, if I said yes, that would mean I wasn't cool right?' A couple seconds later the host said 'So, your answer is no.'

Here's the solution: It ain't about Kerry this year, it's about shrub, and the American people - even the conservative ones - are going to vote him out. My doing could beat booosh this year. All Kerry has to do is not fuck up, he doesn't have to do well.

Re-election will be a problem for him though.

[Zorra]

11. Treat your brother to dinner and a movie - F9/11.

Your brother is probably pretty uninformed if he thinks Bu$h is the lesser evil.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. I dislike Kerry for many of the same reasons as your brother

I will probably vote for him unless he really really pisses me off before november. However, I would never ever vote for bush instead.
If I can not vote for Kerry in November (and he will really have to screw it up for that to happen) I would write in Gore.
At the very least convince him to vote for the Libertarian or something.

[ibegurpard]

18. Agreed

Although I think it's insane to expect the ridiculous Anybody-But-Bush argument to work with anyone except die-hard partisans, I can't even begin to see how someone who doesn't like Bush would see him as better than Kerry. Try to steer him to a third alternative.

[Alex146]

14. take him to see F 9/11

nuff said

[Alex146]

15. take him to see F 9/11

nuff said

[LoZoccolo]

16. johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com

It's a real site. USE ONLY IN CASE OF EMERGENCY!

[sandnsea]

17. Been listening to you?

Maybe you've been talking about that "DLC Kerry" too much. Maybe if you pointed out his record on the environment, civil rights, housing, education, health care, veterans, and foreign relations he'd realize Kerry has been nothing but consistent and is a thousand times better than Bush. More liberal than Ted Kennedy and running on the exact policies he's always supported.

If you don't want George Bush for 4 more years, maybe you're the one that needs to change your tune so the people around you don't get the wrong idea.

[JohnKleeb]

19. I truly think people base their opinion on politicans based on personality

of hte politican. Like Ive studied Kerry's record, we are very lucky IMO to have him as our nominee. Kerry is a member of the DLC yes but he is among its most liberal members.

[Armstead]

25. He lives on the opposite side of the country

Usually he doesn't hear anything from me on the subject except how bad Bush is. And he's gotten an earful of that. I don't knock Kerry to people in real life as much as I do here.

He agrees that Bush is bad, but not enough to overcome his dislike of Kerry.

[Claire Beth]

21. all you have to do is take him to see Fahrenheit 9/11 n/t

[TexasSissy]

22. Bush is really the flip flopper. Kerry's team needs to make this clear.

There are so many examples, all on tape, that the Kerry campaign can use. I hope they do this angle.

No U.N.
......go to U.N.

No France, Germany, etc., assistance in IW
------try to get help from our allies France, Germany, etc. (fails to get it)

No U.N. involvement in the IW or post-war, except for humanitarian reasons
-----try to get U.N. involvement in humanitarian, reconstruction, governmental areas (gets some help & gets a new resolutions post-war)

Won't go to NATO
-----goes to NATO for help (fails to get full help)

Minimal troops...that's all we need
-----send in more troops

Against 9/11 Commission
-----For 9/11 Commission

Won't let Condy Rice testify before Commission
-----Lets Rice testify

Backs new Labor Dept. overtime rules and regs
-----Backs revised rules & regs (which cuts out some of what the American public complained about, in limiting OT for workers)

And on and on and on.

[newsguyatl]

26. no offense, but two things:

1) your brother's NOT a liberal in any way, shape or form.

2) your brother's an idiot.

[LibDemAlways]

27. Anyone who would even entertain the

thought of voting for the chimp is, as my dad would impolitely put it, "off his nut." If he isn't insane, he's terribly misinformed. Take him to see F/911. If he still wants to vote for the chimp, he probably does need help.

[bloodyjack]

29. that's nothing. my sister plans on voting for Bush

because she's convinced that he's set into motion the decline of the American Empire. so she feels she sort of owes it to him.

yeah, she's weird, but we live in an impenetrably red state anyhow.