"They came for the Democrats...

[LoZoccolo]

...and I did not speak out, because I was a Naderite."

[shraby]

1. Then they came for the Naderites

and I didn't speak out because I'm a Catholic

[Worst Username Ever]

2. "Then they came for the Naderites"

And I didn't speak out, because Bush had won the election, and I lost my right to.

[liberalhistorian]

5. Ouch,

good one and all too true, unfortunately. Too bad they won't pull their heads out of their asses long enough to realize it.

[MikeG]

3. Then they came for the Naderites...

And I drew a map to their residences.

[liberalhistorian]

4. ZING!

LOL, now, come on, Mike, that's not very nice!!!!!!

[MikeG]

6. OK. I'm not very good at drawing.

[Senior citizen]

7. You know that's not how it worked.

Hitler went after the most vulnerable groups first. His first victims were the disabled and mentally ill. Then he went on to other small, vulnerable groups, the more socially isolated the better. As he got away with it, he advanced to larger groups. Gypsies, Communists, gays, labor unions, Jews, Catholics.

Are you saying that the Democrats are smaller and more vulnerable than the Greens? Actually, Nader isn't running as a Green, Cobb is, and Nader is being simultaneously supported by and attacked by pukes in their desperation to cause any divisiveness they can. But let's go with "Naderites." Are you saying that Naderites as a group are larger and less vulnerable than Democrats?

The only way it works is the other way around. They came for the Naderites and I did not speak out because I was a Democrat.

I am supporting Kerry. I am neither supporting nor opposing Nader--I'll leave that to the pukes who seem to be doing both at once. But I know who led the fight against big corporations for most of my life, and that big corporations control our government now. I do not see Nader as the enemy, I see fascism, i.e., multinational corporations controlling our government, as the problem. I do not think Nader was responsible for Bush, I think the Florida fraud, BBV, SCOTUS, and the Democratic lack of backbone were among the many problems, but not the tiny Nader vote, which was smaller than the number of votes BBV subtracted from the Gore tally, smaller than the number of wrongly disenfranchised African-Americans, and a lot smaller than the Democratic vote, which was actually the majority of votes cast.

Pastor Niehmoller deserves respect, and twisting his words for a cheap shot is disrespectful not only to him, but to all victims of the Holocaust.

[LoZoccolo]

8. It doesn't matter.

Are you saying that the Democrats are smaller and more vulnerable than the Greens?

No, but the Republicans are supporting the Naderites right now because they help them, so I wouldn't think they'd go after them first. So that's different.

But my point isn't to compare history point-to-point; I'm saying that it seems like a lot of Naderites don't care what may happen to the Democrats who are trying to restore sanity to this nation and working hard for it.

Actually, Nader isn't running as a Green, Cobb is, and Nader is being simultaneously supported by and attacked by pukes in their desperation to cause any divisiveness they can.

That's why I didn't mention the Greens. And I haven't seen Nader attacked by the Republicans ever.

Pastor Niehmoller deserves respect, and twisting his words for a cheap shot is disrespectful not only to him, but to all victims of the Holocaust.

Pastor Neihmoller said these things so we would learn from them. Are we supposed to wait until things get as bad as during Nazi Germany to learn from them?

[Senior citizen]

9. Unfortunately,

On edit: minor typos only

when you say

"....it seems like a lot of Naderites don't care what may happen to the Democrats who are trying to restore sanity to this nation and working hard for it," you are not helping Democrats restore sanity, but fostering hatred against Naderites. You are blaming victims of fascism and opponents of fascism, for not being supportive enough of people who have demonstrated a willingness to go along to get along with fascism. Fascism isn't a joke, the millions of victims in the Sudan are not a joke, the Haitian coup is not a joke, the unjust invasion of Iraq is not a joke, the loss of checks and balances and freedom of speech in this country is not a joke, and opposition to fascism is not a valid reason for anyone who isn't themselves a fascist to attack anyone.

"Are we supposed to wait until things get as bad as during Nazi Germany to learn from them?"

What do you want us to learn? To scapegoat the weak and vulnerable? If you want to join the pukes in attacking or supporting Nader, you are free to do so, but it will not help the Democrats one bit. You are playing the pukes' game and it helps only them.

If you want to help John Kerry get elected, and you want to help the Democrats take back Congress, you have to stop picking on Nader, no matter how much you may hate him, and start looking at the issues that are important to voters. Most of us on DU have little respect for ad hominem attacks, but lots of respect for people who can point to problems with the system and suggest ways they can be fixed. That is what Ralph Nader has done for most of his life--what have you done?

Do you think there could have been a "Roger and Me," without there first having been an, "Unsafe at Any Speed?" Those of us who love Michael Moore now, loved Nader just as much and for the same reasons in his day. Had more people listened to him, we wouldn't be in the fix we're in. Nader is not running for office to oppose Kerry, or to oppose Bush, but to oppose fascism itself--to oppose the merger of business with government and the two major parties who have permitted our Constitutional rights to become mere commodities available only to the wealthy rather than to all citizens. As this country became more and more fascist there were only two parties in control, which Walter Karp called, "Indispensable Enemies," because they need each other to keep people from demanding representative government.

If you want to oppose fascism why not find out what it is? Do you think that corporate control of government started with Dumbya? Both parties have been for sale for a long time--a million letters from voters doesn't count for as much as a million-dollar campaign contribution with either party, and politicians of both parties spend more time fundraising than doing the people's work.

The definition of fascism is that business and government are one. It follows that government will outsource jobs, lower wage levels, increase unemployment, and do anything else it can to help corporate profits at the expense of the general welfare. This has, in the past, led to slave labor camps, and if you check out our prison industries you'll find that we're not far behind. The prison industrial complex that has made us the largest police state in the world did not decrease when Democrats controlled Congress or the White House, it continued to grow. Corporations did not lose power or access to government when Democrats controlled Congress or the White House, they gained power and access.

It is not sanity to let multinationals run our government or to continue to be the biggest police state in the world, and there is no organized Democratic opposition to fascism that I can support. If there were, I'd be the first to support it. I have contributed to, gotten others to contribute to, and am supporting and voting for Kerry because Bush is a bigger fascist, not because I think that Kerry or the Democrats are opposed to fascism--if they are I think they should tell everyone about their sudden conversion. It would help me get out the vote if I had some talking points.


2nd edit: I believe that the Congressional Black Caucus, Rep. Bob Filner, and possibly some "progressive" Democrats are opposed to fascism, but I have never seen the Democratic leadership take them very seriously.