Sorry to waste a post on this but I must say it and depart.

[mmonk]

I really can't tell the difference between many Hillary supporters and republicans and hate radio and the like. There are some Hillary supporters here that are not like that and I'm not talking about you, but many are. I'm being honest (and I realize it's my opnion). It's time I remove myself from my beloved DU for awhile. I'm a democratic party delegate and this is very hard to say. See you in a few unless Sibel needs me here.

[Dhampir Kampf]

1. farewell, and I hold some of your sentiments

[AZ Criminal JD]

30. Are you leaving too? You won't be missed

[roguevalley]

60. grow up, bamalib. by the way, how do you like everyone saying

that the center part of penn is alabama? I hate that.

[mkultra]

76. unfortunatley, neither will you.

[Hissyspit]

2. Nothing wrong with taking a break. See you back here soon.

The convention will be exciting.

[bigtree]

3. the equation of Clinton supporters with republicans is unnecessary and wrong

It's not like the same couldn't be said for attacks from 'some' supporters of Obama. But, this is just fueling a divisive fire as you step out of the door. I know you say it's just some, but it's become a generalization about her campaign that I don't believe the Obama campaign has the room to judge with their own opportunistic, political attacks and maneuvering.

Everything that injures is republican, I suppose, lol.

[boppers]

4. Excusing the intentional infliction of injury is Republican.

Which is exactly what she's been doing.

[IndependentDem]

12. i agree with you... all of the piss fighting goes both ways and doesn't help anyone. n/t

[The Doctor.]

19. So then where's the Sexism?

You see, it's not like the OP has no basis for this assessment. Clinton supporters are manufacturing outrage out of whole cloth here. There are rampant cries of "Sexism!" and "Hatred!" with little or no basis in reality. What few issues one could criticize Obama over aren't nearly the 'horrific' and 'inexcusable' slights they are made out to be.

Looking at the cries of outrage and investigating their roots, one invariably finds that Obama supporter's cries of outrage are founded in real and substantive problems with Clinton's behavior. The reactive outrage over those complaints is the equivalent of accusing the witnesses of a bank robbery of 'hating' the bandits because they dared to finger the perp.

We've seen so much of that same behavior from Bush-bots these last seven years that it becomes all that much more infuriating.

How many times have we see a WingNut scream "That's just your irrational hatred of Bush!!!" whenever someone pointed out that he lied, authorized torture, or violated the Constitution?

Now, of course Hillary doesn't (or couldn't possibly) rise to that Bush level of despotism, but the M/O is the same; "Ignore the substance and attack the criticism."

Now, I know that both candidates have had their speed bumps, but right here, right now, I'm asking you to show me some of this 'rampant sexism' the Hillary supporters are screaming about. I've asked that, and many other questions of her supporters many times, and was returned an anemic response I could count on one finger... and above the ring at that.

To feign outrage over non-existant issues, to delude oneself that one's favored politician has been honest despite their blatant lies, to tell oneself that they are a uniter despite elevating the candidate from the opposing party over their fellow party member, and to believe that the deserved attacks on one's candidate are unfounded while pressing attacks on their opponent based on incidental realationships rather than personal faults absolutely SMACKS of the Bush-loving, Rove-fed, WingNut Method of Outrage.

No... Clinton supporters, although nowhere near as dumb or rabid as Bush-Cons have been these last several years, are employing the tactics that everyone on DU has come to recognize since this site's inception as Right-wing BULLSHIT. The sad part is watching her supporters employ it here, of all places, as though the majority of DUers won't notice. I suppose that explains a lot from the last several years of division in this nation.

So here I am, asking ONE MORE TIME... where is this 'Sexism' that Clinton supporters are harping incessantly over? Where is this 'irrational hatred', above and beyond the justifiable and heated criticism of her words and actions? Where is anything that Obama is directly responsible for that can match those very words and actions by Mrs. Clinton in divisiveness and expedience at the cost of his opponent?

This is your chance to show me. Shall I hold my breath?


For the moment, I will not.


Peace.

[IndependentDem]

5. my house was robbed and my computer was stolen...

with no computer I was forced off of DU for a while, it was actually pretty nice.

[Swamp Rat]

6. .

:hug:

[TLM]

7. Their attacks grow louder and more vicious as their see Hillary's end drawing near. n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

31. "their"? Please try and post in english.

[Tesha]

37. Grammar police may be the lowest form of life on the web.

Especially when you knew exactly what the poster was
saying, irregardless* of typos.

Tesha

* I threw that one in just for you.

[CreekDog]

49. "Their" is an English word

please don't offer a correction that is not in fact, correct. :think:

[roguevalley]

61. why don't you just take a hike, bamalib. if talking about people's

grammar is all you got, then you are just sad.

[Career Prole]

71. They're using the proper word there, which in this case happens

to be "their". It's probably best to refrain from grammar/spell-checking the work of others since many consider it rude and damn, you sure look silly if you boot it!

[question everything]

8. Would this, then, be labeled as "Rovian style" post

from a pro-Obama, according to that faux stats from last week?

No, I suppose not. It would be "rational."

[SunsetDreams]

9. mmonk, I'll miss seeing your posts

I know you will be back soon, since it will be over.

Take care:hug:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

23. I have equated many BHO fans here on DU the same as the OP did for months now.

[shadowknows69]

42. This coming from someone who just brought up the Wright BS in another thread

[ScarletSniper]

44. That's Rodeo for ya...she likes to dance close and color outside the lines..

[cboy4]

11. You better hope you're not permanently removed from your

"beloved DU" for insinuating that the "many" DUers who support the opposing candidate are no different than Republicans.

This is a very hostile post, disguised in a "who? what? me? fashion."

I have many Hillary Clinton supporter friends here who are far from being Republicans, and who are far from being associated with hate/hate radio.

You should apologize.

[dailykoff]

14. Why are Hillary supporters all so ANGRY?

When you should be HAPPY? :shrug:

[MADem]

17. Yeah, everyone LOVES being called a Republican. It makes them "happy."

Get a bit of perspective, why don't you.


Change the name to Obama and see if you like it.

This thread is a fucking disgrace.

But par for the course.

[The Doctor.]

21. THIS thread is a disgrace?

Well sure it is. That means you can acknowledge the disgrace of this abominable thread here; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5593693

Right?

[MonkeyFunk]

27. that thread was locked

and simply expressed a sentiment that is shown here every day against Clinton.

In my opinion, most Obama supporters here are inveterate liars. Cope.

[The Doctor.]

29. Your opinion is just as valid when inverted.

You make claims you can't back up. You're delusional, and the claim that "most Obama supporters here are inveterate liars" is proof of that.

There are many hundreds of Obama supporters on this site, if you could find even 20 'inveterate' liars among them I'd be shocked... let alone more than half of them.

Tell you what though... just for now, among the thousands of Obamite posts, find ONE.

We'll go from there.


Meanwhile, let me first point out that the thread was not locked because of the OP's vow not to vote for Obama, but because of the responses, therefore it's being locked has no bearing on it's main message. That in mind, I asked a question you are apparently not prepared to answer; "Would you consider that thread a disgrace?"

I've always said that it's childish to pledge "never" to vote for the Democratic candidate because of any perceived slight. Can you do the same?

[roguevalley]

66. coming from you ...

[MADem]

73. Don't hold your breath for this one to be, though.

There seems to be a double standard at work here for some reason. It's unfortunate.

[MADem]

72. Wow, how ADULT of you! Two wrongs somehow make a right in your grade-school head?

Right, indeed. :sarcasm:

Did I start that thread, or participate in it? Hmmmm? Agree with its premise?

Did I even click on the stupid thing, before you so "helpfully" provided it for me? Why no, I did not.

Put your lousy little broad brush away.

Don't blame me for the actions of another.

And grow up.

This kind of bullshit is the reason this place is so unappealing of late.

[cboy4]

18. Are you the one at work who goes up to the person

who just got laid off and says. "Why are you so ANGRY, when you should be HAPPY! Think of all the free time you have now!" :eyes:

[The Doctor.]

22. If someone is laid off for stealing, why do they have the right to be angry?

[cboy4]

24. You don't get laid off for stealing....you get fired

for stealing.

You get laid off for business reasons, such as cutbacks, etc.

Therefore, layoffs are not the employee's fault.

[The Doctor.]

28. You can be laid off for stealing. It's called 'discretion'. Employers have that y'know.

You can also be suspended. I'll concede that one is much more likely to be fired though.

Here's the fun part; Why did you just avoid the point entirely by picking out a perceived error?

Is there a reason you don't want to deal with the substance of what I said? do you know what substance is?

[cboy4]

34. Someone who doesn't understand the difference

between getting laid off and being terminated is questioning whether I get something?

Do you know what semantics is?

That's what you're playing telling me that a firing can be characterized as a layoff.

Yea, you can call it anything. But technically, it's a firing.

You don't get laid off for cause.

That's why when you file for unemployment, you cannot collect if you've been fired (or quit).

You can only collect if you've been laid off.

So since you got the meaning wrong, any point you were desperately attempting to make is mute.

[The Doctor.]

35. So.... you're still avoiding the substance.

Whatta shock.

Apparently you need to learn to read;
"I'll concede that one is much more likely to be fired though."

And then learn to stop dealing in absolutes.

I also never said there was no difference between being laid off and being terminated.

Maybe you should try reading the posts you're responding to.

Or is the construction of non-issue straw-man arguments your specialty?

I've asked you to 'bring the stuff', but apparently you have nothing. I'll give you one more chance to discuss the substance here, after that I'm done with you and these posts go in a folder for later reference when I need to prove, again, that Clinton supporters can't deal with substance.

So what's it gonna be friendo?

[cboy4]

40. You asked me:

"If someone is laid off for stealing, why do they have the right to be angry?"

And I answered you.

I don't know what else it is you want.

[The Doctor.]

70. How very pathetic. You called that an answer?

Let's try again;

"If someone is fired for stealing, why do they have the right to be angry?"

Now, you made a choice when I origninally asked the question. The option was to understand and deal with what the question meant or whether the question was flawed. You chose to pick out a flaw rather than deal with the meaning and substance. That doesn't speak well for your reasoning skills, nor does it make you look genuine here.

Because you may decide to nitpick one way or another, I'll just take your original quote; "Are you the one at work who goes up to the person who just got laid off and says. "Why are you so ANGRY, when you should be HAPPY! Think of all the free time you have now!", and deal with the substance.

The first thing I looked at in this, ummm question, was the meaning of it... the substance. Obviously, I could have pointed out the very poor use of punctuation, or the clumsey confusion of pronouns, but I did not. Instead, I looked at the meaning.

Now, I know how much you'd love to argue that no one is ever 'laid off' for stealing, but since that doesn't address the substance, I'll just concede now that you're right, and no one is ever 'laid off' for such a serious thing as stealing.


Now, let's look at what everyone was trying to say;

"Why are Hillary supporters all so angry? :shrug: When you should be HAPPY?" - Dailykoff.

The meaning there was clear, even if DK was a little naïve with the 'you should be happy' part. DK was pointing out that Clinton supporters are very angry.

You validated that point very thoroughly;

"Are you the one at work who goes up to the person who just got laid off and says. "Why are you so ANGRY, when you should be HAPPY! Think of all the free time you have now!"

So you've acknowledged that her supporters are angry. Then you go on to justify that anger by saying there's a 'good reason' for it. To that effect, your use of the term 'laid off' was very interesting, as that seems the destiny of her campaign.

My response;
"If someone is laid off for stealing, why do they have the right to be angry?"

The meaning of that question in the context of the discussion was; "Well, in this case the employee was laid off for a very, very good reason." - Which is why I chose the comparatively serious charge of stealing.

So, let's throw out the distracting analogies, and cut to the chase;

"There are very good reasons for the treatment of Hillary Clinton by her opposition. If this makes you mad, then perhaps you should consider what SHE has done to deserve it, rather than pretending that treatment is baseless and remaining deliberately ignorant of her actions."

Now, I understand that's a conversation you don't want to have... otherwise you would not have claimed to answer a question that you, in fact, did not. (you merely critiqued it's analogous viability)
In another post, you 'threatened' to talk about Obama's behavior. I said 'go for it', but for some reason you chose rather to discuss a 'flaw' in my analogy that in no way crippled it's meaning.

You seem bent and determined to avoid discussing anything of substance. If you are actually a very clever Obama supporter trying to make Clinton supporters look frivolous, you have succeeded greatly.

If, on the other hand, you are a Clinton supporter, and this was the best you could do...

[stevenleser]

41. Ignored always seems to avoid the substance of debates IMHO

That is why they are ignored! :toast:



:rofl:

[dailykoff]

43. You sound bitter.

Why is that?

[cboy4]

53. Gee I don't know.....the OP compares Hillary Clinton

people to Republicans and hate radio.

I happen to have friends who are far from being Republicans and far from being associated with hate radio.

You're incapable of understanding how the implication is obnoxious and uncalled for.

Why is that?

[emilyg]

15. Thank you.

[The Doctor.]

20. Very well... and fair enough.

Do your 'Hillary Clinton supporter friends' excuse her behavior as well?

Clinton insinuated that McCain would be better than her fellow Democrat.


Are you saying that is not devisive and damaging to Democrats at large? Do your friends have the perspective and integrity to acknowledge how terrible that was of her?

If not, then indeed they exhibit the same selective cognition that is the hallmark of Bush-bots these last several years. Oh, I'm sure they're generally more informed and less ignorant, but the symptoms are the same.

[cboy4]

25. Do you want me to start discussing Obama's behavior?

Of course you don't.

And the OP isn't talking about Hillary Clinton's positions and comments and behavior.

The OP is personally attacking her supporters (and some of my friends) as sounding like Republicans, and associating them with hate radio.

Let's stay on topic Dr_eldritch.

Because I can promise you don't want me to start breaking down the behavior of a large number of Obama supporters.

[The Doctor.]

26. Go right ahead... it simply doesn't rise to the same level.

Tough talk like that doesn't work on me. Bring the stuff, and we'll go over it.

It's 3:40 am local time here and I have engagements, but I'll be back.

Meanwhile, is there a reason that you refuse to answer this question;
"Are you saying that is not devisive and damaging to Democrats at large? Do your friends have the perspective and integrity to acknowledge how terrible that was of her?"

?


So have at it.

[PVnRT]

46. You, demanding an apology? That's funny.

[CreekDog]

50. he doesn't have to apologize to the ones that channel Hannity

and post links to right wing websites to attack Obama.

[Jamastiene]

58. I second this post.

Good points, cboy. :hi:
:thumbsup:

[roguevalley]

64. and you should come into reality once in a while. its nice out here.

or are you building a bomb shelter because of this:

Said Clinton on Good Morning America, "I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran. In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Echoing the kos bullshit is all you can do.

[The Doctor.]

32. Now Kos is 'Bullshit'?

Ummm... can you point out that "bullshit"?

I'm not saying it's not there, but it's very, very rare for Clinton people to point out all the 'bullshit', 'sexism', and 'irrational hatred' they claim is going on.

I'm sure that being a long-time and well-respected DUer (I remember you being one of the other DUers besides myself that didn't take advantage of the 'penalty-free name change' in '04), I'm sure that you have good reason to call 'bullshit' on Kos and will have no problem supplying a link.

Thanks. :hi:

[roguevalley]

67. saying that and you wonder why people think you sound like repugs.

list who you find are not dead to me. I want to know who is still acceptable to your hero and yourself.

[The Doctor.]

77. Nothing, huh?

Gee, whatta shock.

BOTD... you're probably busy, I hope to hear from you tonight.

[melody]

16. I do know what you mean and I'll miss your posts. Hurry back. n/t

[Guava Jelly]

33. There are assholes in both camps

The Obama supporters see more Obama bashing and the Clinton supporters see more Clinton bashing.
I just hope we have only one soon to bash...This is getting old.

[depakid]

36. can't tell the difference between many _______ supporters and Republicans and hate radio

Take your pick.

An all to large contingent here has pretty much become what they claim to want to fight.

[cboy4]

38. You're living a charmed life......you post a hit and run

piece of garbage thread comparing Hillary Clinton supporters to Republicans and hate radio . . and it's allowed to remain!? :wow:

Someone is asleep at the controls.

[roguevalley]

68. tell us who you do listen to. since the hillary pan brigade made a

post to let Hannity and O'Reily know about their little fiasco outside MSNBC, its hard to discount their love of neocon broadcasting. who on the net and in the media do you support and find acceptable now that Olbermann, et al are personna non grata?

[barack the house]

39. I know fox news has changed them and it's horrific.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. What a sad example of hit and run hate speech against fellow DU members.

Disgusting. And, not surprising at all, it's on the Greatest Page.

[jalynn]

47. mmonk

why the hidden profile?

[mmonk]

51. Since I'm back perusing this morning, I'll answer your question.

My profile is hidden due to my active support on behalf of FBI whistle blower Sibel Edmonds. For awhile, I had some people who claimed to be Turks following me around the internet to harass me when I would post. Then I would receive messages and the like that weren't friendly. This occurred for quite awhile and not knowing who they were, I did it for my protection. Thanks for asking.

[cboy4]

55. I'm not surprised you're not able to get along with society.

It sounds like you ask for the trouble that forces you to keep a low (and hidden) profile.

Your remarks in the OP are disgusting.

[mmonk]

56. Sorry you feel that way.

I get along fine in society. I haven't attacked you in any way for example. I plan to post a response later today concerning this thread. In the meantime, good luck in the PA primary. Should be interesting. And by the way, I've received phone calls to my home. I think it reasonable to hide my profile. But if someone wanted to take their time, they could go through my posts (archived) and could learn my name and my place of residence. It's just after threats, I'm not going to make it easy.

[roguevalley]

69. mmonk is good folks and the fact that you would attack them is sad.

Go and relax, mmonk. Come back after the primary.

[cboy4]

79. Associating other DUers with Republicans and hate

radio does not qualify an individual as "good folks."

Maybe I'll have a different opinion if and when mmonk offers an apology.

[bigwillq]

48. Good idea.

As much as "we" think we are, I don't find DU as representive of most people's feelings IRL.

The Obama and Clinton supporters that I know, granted it's a very small sum compared to DU, are nothing like how some of the candidates supporters are on DU.

I know some very, very good Obama supporters and some very, very good Clinton supporters, who don't use hate speak or the attacks on one another like some do here on DU.

Take a break. But remember DU isn't the entire world, just a small piece, and sometimes things are much different on here than they are in real life.

[Evergreen Emerald]

52. whatever.

You choose to be blind and deaf and dumb. Attack and then run and hide.

Whatever.

You. Are. Wrong.

[ShortnFiery]

54. Best wishes ... I will consider taking your lead.

:-) :hi:

[NC_Nurse]

57. I'll miss you.

Have a nice break! :hi:

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

59. Sorry to see you go...

take care.

[uponit7771]

62. I think a good portion of them are reThugs IMHO

[OzarkDem]

63. We feel the same way about Obama supporters n/t

[rinsd]

65. Ever consider that nasty people calling themselves supporters are lying?

In the last 2 months the board has seen a flood of trolls from both sides who take pleasure in posting the most outrageous crap they can and then watch the rest of us tear each other apart.

[Adelante]

74. Get some good rest, mmonk

See ya when we see ya :hi:

[Forkboy]

75. All candidates have their insane 20% who are blind, dumb rejects.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. You're going to miss out on all the fun...

when they melt away.