Hillary just OFFENDED the hell out of me on the TODAY SHOW re: discrimination against women

[wndycty]

Just now on the TODAY SHOW Hillary just said:

The most pervasive form of discrimination in the world, no matter what the ethnicity, the race, the religion of the people who live in society, is discrimination against women.

First of all let me should say NO ONE should deny that discrimination against women exists, it does and it is pervasive. But for her to say its the MOST pervasive is a slap in the face to anyone who has experienced or still experiences discrimination.

I need to say there is no HIERARCHY OF VICTIMIZATION, anyone who has experienced discrimination knows this.

Obviously Hillary was just trying to seek sympathy over Obama. Its hard for me to feel sorry for a former first lady who is a US Senator. If Hillary's point is valid why are there more white women governors in the US than black male governors? Why are there more white women in both the US House and US Senate than Black men?

In Nazi Germany was it better to be a Christian woman or a Jewish man?

During slavery and Jim Crow was it better to be a white woman or a Black man?

During World World II was it better to be a white woman or a Japanese man?

When it comes to marriage who has the right to get married? A straight woman or a gay man?

Who is more likely to get pulled over and possibly go to jail? A law abiding Black man or a white woman with pot in her purse?

IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED UP of me to make any of the above points without acknowledging the discrimination that women throughout the world have had to suffer. Whether its sexism, sexual harassment, sexual assault, etc. women of all races ethnicities, etc. have and continue to have to deal with discrimination on a daily basis, but for her to claim that discrimination against women was the most pervasive form in the world was just disgusting.

I wish my grandfather were alive so she could tell him that to his face. My grandfather was wounded in WWII but was still forced to ride in the back of the bus, forced to drink out of "colored only" water fountains and called a "ni$#er" upon returning to this country, the one he bled for. My nephew who served in Iraq has been pulled over twice for no good reason since returning to this country.

I do not doubt for one minute that a significant amount of those working against Hillary and supporting Obama or McCain are unabashed sexists, but no more so than the some of those working against Obama and supporting Hillary or McCain are unabashed racists, yet whenever ANYTHING that can be perceived as racist is thrown at Obama and folks call it out we are being accused of playing the race card. Hillary has played the victim card a ton more than Obama has. I actually don't begrudge her that, when she is a victim of sexism SHE AND HER SUPPORTERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO CALL IT OUT, but it pisses me off that the same courtesy is not extended to Obama and his supporters.

Hillary is a strong and capable candidate, but trust me she is not losing to Obama because of sexism.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Hillary is playing the victim again? I guess she's trying to appeal to the stay-at-home women today.

[Skwmom]

26. You mean Hillary with her slam at stay-at-home women?

"I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

[Jennicut]

75. I'm a stay at home Mom and I remember that, of course it did not bother me at 17 but now...

[OzarkDem]

110. Right wing talking points

She was very clear that she supports women in whatever choices they make. Her point was that we shouldn't condemn women who choose to have careers.

I'm sure you would agree with that, right?

[Jennicut]

127. I do think that statement could have been used out of context, every woman should have a choice

Still, what bothers me most about Hillary's logic is that if you don't vote for her and your a woman you are somehow defeating yourself. I voted for Obama because I wanted to and I hate that anyone will tell me that not voting for Hillary is against woman. I think all woman have earned the right to vote for who they want. I feel that any African Americans that support Hillary should not feel obligated to support Obama as well. Vote with your heart, vote for an issue, vote because a candidate is a person you feel you could trust and respect. But don't vote because someone told you you need to vote for your gender or race.

[suzie]

182. The written quote sounds less condescending

I remember defending Hillary Clinton about the quote on baking cookies during the 90s, even though it seemed pretty indefensible. But, the written word sounds far less condescending.

I saw the video clip the other day and it sounds extremely condescending to other women who've made different choices.

[Bettie]

32. Hey! Just because a woman may choose to stay-at-home...

doesn't mean she's abdicated critical thinking or believes that she's a victim.

I am a stay-at-home mom and I don't support Senator Clinton and I don't buy that her failure thus far is due to sexism.

Just pointing out that just because I made a choice to stay home, it doesn't make me a doormat.

Thanks, and sorry for getting pissy at you.

Bettie

[Buzz Clik]

47. Now, don't take my tiny comment too far.

Bear with me:

It's Hillary who is playing the victim, and she's making this appeal to the audience for morning, weekday news programs ... an audience dominated by women who don't work. I am not suggesting that they are victims of anything, simply that this appeal might work better on them than other demographics.

Sorry for my potentially offensive comment, but I didn't mean it the way you took it. The best two years of my childhood were when my mom decided to stop working and stay at home. It was her choice, but she was a great house mom.

[Bettie]

108. Thanks for the explanation

And it was in case I did take it the wrong way that I added that bit about being sorry to get all pissy with you over it! :)

I had actually forgotten about her long ago comment about staying home and baking cookies which is ironic considering the audience she is targeting in these interviews. You'd think I'd notice the demographic targeted there too, I have a degree in communications and took a lot of course work in media communication!

Next time I'll think before getting all defensive!

Bettie

[Buzz Clik]

140. Meh. This is GD-P. Decorum is checked at the door.

:)

[mamalone]

50. me too....

Like she said:)

[OzarkDem]

111. You're misrepresenting her remarks

If you were involved in politics in 1992, you would know that your characterization of her remarks comes from Rush Limbaugh talking points.

Clinton stated at the time that she supports any choice women make, but that women shouldn't be singled out for criticism when they pursue careers outside the home.

As a loyal Democrat, I'm sure you wouldn't want to use a Rush Limbaugh talking point, would you?

[jjr5]

173. Thanks

That's truly awesome. :)

I am a woman and I love Obama's message! I voted for him :)

[PoliticalAmazon]

120. I am so sick of her whiney self-pity. n/t

[bluetrain]

2. I have to say that I agree with her on that. That doesn't mean bigotry is limited to sexism, but I'm

at a loss to even name a single, currently existing matriarchal society in the world.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. She said "most pervasive"

and she's right. Your offense is unwarrranted.

[wndycty]

6. So how many women will get pulled over today just for being women?

Answer please.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. None in Saudi Arabia. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

19. good answer!

[MonkeyFunk]

12. That's your ultimate determination

of discrimination?

How many men in the world will be held down and have their clitorises cut off today?

[Phillycat]

15. It's an America-centric worldview.

They don't understand that there's a big wide world out there.

[wndycty]

16. Read the OP again. . .you act as if I denied discrimination against women exists

I was just saying its wrong to claim that one is more pervasive than the other.

[MonkeyFunk]

20. You don't know what pervasive means, evidently

[Phillycat]

39. I am just laughing helplessly over here.

It's not a fair fight anymore, Monkey Funk. The OP came to a battle of wits unarmed.

[girl gone mad]

178. As an Obama supporter, I disagree with you.

Discrimination against women is the most pervasive form of discrimination in the entire world.

[Marrah_G]

215. It is far more pervasive then any other type- Women are 50% of the world.

[cali]

56. how many women will be raped in Darfur or the Congo today?

How many girls and women will be married against their wills today? How many sold into prostitution? Grab a clue.

[wndycty]

You are so misunderstanding my point. I NEVER ONCE denied the horrible existence of. . .

. . .sexual assault, mutilation, et al. I just made the point that there is no hierarchy.

Hell, in a messed up way you are proving my point. Would this world be more outraged against sexual mutilation against women if it were happening in a European country as opposed to an African country?

I'm not trying to compare anything or say ANYONE has it easy, I'm just pointing out that discrimination is bad a pervasive regardless of the gender of the victim.

You may or may not agree with me, but I'm on your side.

[PoliticalAmazon]

118. How many women will end up in Gitmo because they are women? n/t

[pnwmom]

168. She is talking on a worldwide basis. n/t

[WinkyDink]

4. First of all, she is speaking of the present world, not 1860 or 1942.

Secondly, your rant doesn't make her assertion false.

[wndycty]

8. So its easier for a Black man than a white woman to be elected governor, Senator, congressman?

The numbers don't back that up.

[WinkyDink]

13. Does "the world" now include only our governing bodies? Oh, and "easier" still means "possible".

Not to mention that not "being elected" in a democratic society which allows the nomination of any race, creed, etc., hardly fits the definition of "discrimination".

[QC]

33. Are you trying to imply that the U.S. is not the whole world? n/t

[WinkyDink]

37. Heh. I'm not "trying" to "imply"; I'm successfully stating outright!

[QC]

40. Why heavens to Betsy! Who ever heard of such a notion! n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

17. do you know what

"pervasive" and "in the world" mean? It appears you do not.

[Crazy Dave]

5. You got us Hillary

Everyone voting for Obama hates women :sarcasm:

[joeybee12]

7. OMG! And you're so totally unbiased...I mean, you watched this objectively

and weren't about to slam her no matter what she said like you always do...I mean, you've turned a corner and can be rational..and...wait, still a stupid rant, still idiotic comments from Bots.

[greguganus]

10. Does she not know of genocide? n/t

[Apollo11]

11. It just means that sexism is the most common form of discrimination.

It does not mean that sexism is somehow worse than racism or anything like that.

Pervasive is a word that means something is widely spread.

[Crazy Dave]

21. Most common?

I think gay people would disagree. Women aren't denied a marriage license because they're women.

[Apollo11]

38. Sexism exists is almost every home in every village and every town on the planet.

There are relatively few women who are not affected by their society's assumptions about gender-specific roles.

Let's start with looking at who is responsible for preparing meals or cleaning the bathroom.

There are more than 3 billion women and girls affected by sexism.

Not sure how many GLBT people there are worldwide. Maybe 500 million?

So by definition, discrimination against women is more widely spread.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. This gay person

Agrees. Sexism is the very foundation of homophobia. It is the same thing. And this discussion is about the 'world' not the US. There are many nations where women can not control their own marriage, and are not allowed divorce. There are also nations where gay people are not denied a marriage license.
And of course among gay people are-shock- women! And gay women face both kinds of sexism. They even face the kind where people assume that gay equals male.
Pervasive and world are the key words. As John Lennon sang:

'woman is the slave of the slave.
If you beleive me, you better scream about it.'

[OzarkDem]

113. Most common means affecting the largest number of people

No one is saying the rights of one group are more important than others.

But sexism affects more people simply because more than half the population of the world is women.

[Clintonista2]

159. See... this is where you really need to understand the word "pervasive"

There are gay WOMEN. See how pervasive sexism is? It infiltrates every single group, regardless of ethnicity, race, class, or identity.

[defendandprotect]

192. Try looking at the numbers . . . women are also homosexual . . .

overall, women are the MAJORITY of the people on the earth ---
so no matter what category you are talking about, the majority of that category being discriminated against is female!

[Marrah_G]

217. Considering women are 50% of the world population- yes- it is the most common

[ericgtr]

14. Change "is discrimination against women" to "is discrimination against blacks"

and this would be all over the media, ending the race had Obama said it. But Hillary can completely get away with it, this won't even make news. Sad.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. because it's patently true

[Marrah_G]

218. She was stating a well known/well documented fact- Women include black women- asian women- etc etc

[ShortnFiery]

18. The Clintons = "perpetual victimhood" - someone should tell HRC that her heroine, Maggie Thatcher..

NEVER (not ever) played "The Gender Card."

It's really sad when a Tory "Iron Woman" Brit. Warmonger has more integrity than HRC, a DINO. :shrug:

[Maribelle]

22. They kill girl babies because they are girls.

Other forms of discrimination against women are not quite so inescapable.

[defendandprotect]

193. There are millions of females missing -- last I heard more than 12 million . . .

and that's seems way low ---
but I think that was the number just for China?

[DemBones DemBones]

212. Yes, infanticide and abortion of baby girls is common

in India and China and practiced everywhere to some degree.

[Romulox]

23. This entire rant is based on a misunderstanding of the word "pervasive".

You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means!

:rofl:

[WinkyDink]

25. Only one word?

[bluetrain]

30. lol

[Phillycat]

41. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

114. Pretty silly, isn't it?

But not surprising.

[slampoet]

24. There will always be Rich White Women who are outraged they don't have all ....

the privileges of Rich White Males.

[OzarkDem]

115. and poor and middle class women

who don't have the same rights as their male peers.

[Clintonista2]

141. And there will always be Rich Black Men who are outraged they don't have all...

the privileges of Rich White Males.

[hendo]

177. Fixed

There will always be some people who are pissed off because they dont have it has good as other people.

[slampoet]

208. That is not the meaning of my post.

[provis99]

183. and there will be Rich Catholics who are outraged

they don't have the privileges of Rich Protestants...

and there will be Rich young people who don't have the privileges of Rich old people...

this line of victim trumping is stupid.

[slampoet]

207. Actually historically that isn't true.

200 years ago there were very few Wealthy Black men in a position to make a comparison yet there were many Rich White Women.

[Onlooker]

27. Look up the word pervasive n/t

[Doctor_J]

29. What's strange it's that Hil has repeatedly brought up gender as an issue

while Obama has COMPLETELY ignored race, even though the Madrassa smear, the Rev Wright smear, the Million Man March smear, and the Ayers smear are all racially motivated, if coded.

He transcends race.

[wndycty]

31. Yeah and I'm being bashed for the OP that I guarantee most of the bashers aren't reading...

. . .I'm not denying sexism or downplaying it at all, just pointing out its all relative.

[QC]

36. The problem for you is that people *are* reading the OP.

That's why they see that it is based on your own intellectual shortcomings and obsessive hatreds.

[wndycty]

81. HA! So you missed this statement in the OP?

"IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED UP of me to make any of the above points without acknowledging the discrimination that women throughout the world have had to suffer."

Explain to me my "intellectual shortcomings and obsessive hatreds."

[QC]

98. Well, you don't know what "pervasive" means, for one thing.

And you tend to become unhinged when anyone mentions H------ C------.

[wndycty]

100. Do I really? Look at my entire history here at the DU, up until this election. . .

. . .I have been one of Bill and Hillary's biggest defenders. I don't just go after Hillary for the sake of going after Hillary I RESPOND to things. I'm trying to find a way to support her again when then is over.

[Phillycat]

42. It's not "relative". Pervasive doesn't mean what you think it means!

This thread is hilarious.

[redstate_democrat]

126. I agree with you.

It seems as if a lot of privileged white women in this country like to carry the burden of victimhood that women of color around the world carry. They talk about genital mutilation, oppression, etc, but white women in general don't have those problems. So in reality, most of the "sexism" they talk about around the "world", is more complicated than simply gender. It is a combination of discrimination in gender, race, and culture that is at the root of a lot of these problems around the world. In the United States, I would say race is the most pervasive form of discrimination. And since she is running for president in the united states, this country's treatment of women is probably most relevant when discussing her particular challenges. Something is really creepy about her pointing to an African woman's oppression and somehow connecting that to her own difficulties here in America.

Shameless.

[wndycty]

133. You are right and she didn't really point to an African woman's oppression. . .

. . .her supporters did in an effort to defend her comment.

I resent the implication that I'm insensitive to the plight of women throughout the world, even though I discussed it in my OP.

[defendandprotect]

194. Wait a minute . . . when was the last time that we had a FEMALE candidate who could

bring up the issue of gender discrimination?

Certainly white males weren't going to do that ---

Let's hope that in both candidates we see the issues of female and racial discrimination being
brought to the fore -- though perhaps unspoken?

[undeterred]

34. Its the Vast Anti-Hillary Conspiracy

Give it up and go home now, little girl.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. That's really not a fair statement.

I've yet to see anyone (and no, conservative talk-radio hosts do not count as people) tell Hillary to quit the race because she's a female. That hasn't even been implicitly stated. I'd ask you to cite otherwise if you have such evidence.

It has a lot more to do with the fact that she mathematically cannot win without changing the minds of a lot of declared superdelegates or pledged delegates, and that she's attempting to do so by vilifying another Democrat, thereby hurting our chances in the general election. It is childish and irresponsible to imply that people want Hillary out of the race primarily because of her gender.

[OzarkDem]

116. She's being a pioneer for other women leaders in the US

and we're glad she's doing it. Being the first is always difficult, but it makes the path easier for those who follow.

I'm not only looking forward to electing the first woman president, but many more after that.

[4themind]

35. She's making a statement without giving

quantifiable verification (and I don't know of any way to even measure levels of discrimination throughout history) and saying little to dissuade the anger and fear, that may divide us based upon relative suffering, to divide us based upon our own and varied sensibilities. The question I would guess the majority of voters have is who will be better prepared to bridge the divide that fosters these discriminations As to who is better equipped to do that, well each voter will make their own decision.

If I'm a line judge and I see someone false start in a race, I don't need to know whether someone else also false started in order to start the race over with everyone at equal footing (although I concede that in real life, everyone isn't brought back to equal footing but again, knowledge of how much each person cheated isn't necessary to restart them with the same rights or opportunities that exist. It just requires a recognition that inequality exists, AND a desire/political will to change it. To me as a voter these have greater importance then what hillary said. (unless of course a system of reparations is asked for)

[izzybeans]

43. She'd be right if she were talking about women of color.

However she's just playing the standard identity politics playing card; arguing for the primacy of her identity as the the most subjugated.

It's about intersections of victimization, not hierarchies of discrimination.

No amount of social science data could accurately identify a hierarchy. So if it feels right to you, it might be right for you, just not right for others.

[wndycty]

52. No amount of social science data could accurately identify a hierarchy.

EXACTLY!!!

[defendandprotect]

195. ...and there are different ways of looking at "hierarchies" of discrimination . . .

WOMEN are the humans who were first oppressed and therefore have been the longest victims of patriarchial violence ---

[Marrah_G]

219. Do you understand what pervasive means?

[BigDDem]

45. waaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa

Some of you folks are even more thin skinned that your candidate.

[EnviroBat]

46. My God,... She's really going out with a bang.

Going down in flames. Sad and pathetic.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. Women across the world of all races are abused, tortured, sold as prostitutes

genitals mutiliated, beatin and treated as property. Babies are tossed into the ditch if they are born without a penis.

And you are offended that Clinton voiced this?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[cali]

54. ack. horrors. we agree.

All of the OPs examples were historical. In the real world today, women are indeed persecuted, across the globe, more than any other group.

[ProSense]

65. And nothing

happens because of race and ethnicity?

This is what Hillary's campaign is reduced to trying to blame sexism around the world for her pathetic campaign.

[Evergreen Emerald]

73. Again, of course. You are wrong. That is not what she said

DAng. Is it hard to live there? How do you hide yourself from all reality? You must have to work hard at it.

[ProSense]

82. Now you want to claim I didn't hear her correctly? What does that have to do with my response? n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

106. What does your not hearing her correctly have to do with your response? Too funny.

But, having read some of your posts, not usexpected.

[Marrah_G]

221. DO you understand the definition of pervasive?

Do you not realize that race and ethnicity of every kind include women?

[OzarkDem]

119. They earn lower wages for the same work, have higher poverty rates

and are most likely to live in poverty during retirement.

They have to work harder and get more education while still not getting the same pay or rank as men.

Oh, and don't forget all the women who have been victimized in our military.

[alphafemale]

51. If she can't stand the heat she should flee the kitchen.

[PBS Poll-435]

53. Is this the most UNINTENTIONALLY FUNNY Thread EVER?

Maybe...

:shrug::rofl::shrug:

[QC]

55. Ignorance and unthinking fanaticism can certainl breed some bizarre things. n/t

[cali]

57. I wish I thought it was funny. I don't.

Fucked up and sexist crap.

[PBS Poll-435]

61. ?

Can you elaborate?

[cali]

66. in what way wasn't I clear?

I disagree completely with the OP. I think Clinton is right, and I think the OP is dismissive of the facts.

[PBS Poll-435]

69. Oh. ITA

:thumbsup:

Thanks for taking the time.

[Phillycat]

70. I can't stop laughing.

I needed this today. :rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

71. :-)

Does the OP work in advertising?

[Phillycat]

80. The Princess Bride quote is what sent me over the edge.

"You keep using that word. I think that word does not mean what you think it means!" :rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

90. Me too...

Took me a second to place it.

Thanks again for voting today!

[PBS Poll-435]

88. .

Wrong line...

[peacebaby3]

58. Sigh...I hate when I'm forced to defend Clinton.

I had a great deal of respect for her (except for her warmonger votes) until this campaign, but now I can't hardly stand to hear her voice because of some of the things she has said and done.

Having said that, she is absolutely correct in what she said on the Today show because she wasn't talking about just here or in Europe, etc. She said in the WORLD and the discrimination and abuse against woman in the WORLD is egregious. Not only do they not have any civil rights, but many face genital mutilation, death as a punishment for being raped, gang rape as a punishment if a male member of their family does something wrong, etc.

[Raineyb]

171. That's all well and good except

She's running for president of the United States. World wide sexism has nothing to do with why she's losing and she had no damn business bringing it up.

I don't suppose it occurred to her that she's losing because she's run a terrible campaign and she manages at least once a week to say something to piss off a portion of the democratic electorate? Which I might add includes all those black people she's trying to convince don't really have to worry as much about how race affects them as gender affects her.

Are we really expected to watch a wealthy privileged white woman bemoan sexism as the reason why she is losing the race for nomination to the most powerful position on this country when a mere 12 months ago she was the front runner? Not bloody likely!

Senator Clinton can easily find the problem with her campaign. She merely needs to look in the mirror.

Regards

[Political Heretic]

59. I just don't think oppressed populations should compete against each other.

I don't see any good that comes from debating which oppressed group has it the worst. I think that oppression isn't uniform. Women experience oppression in ways that are completely unique. Discrimination based on ethnicity also has unique tragic experiences that differ from gender oppression. Discrimination based on sexual orientation also has unique unjust features. They are each ultimately serious and we must resist the urge to "rank" them.

[cali]

60. Btw, one reason that there are more white female lawmakers

than black lawmakers, is that white females make up a much larger percentage of the population.

[defendandprotect]

196. The numbers continue to make females the greater percentage . . .

but it seems tough to get that point across to the originator of the thread!

[GoldieAZ49]

62. She is right, every race in every country

has and does discriminate against women, some have made more progress than others.

[DS1]

63. I'd say she's right. You need to consider the whole world, if that's the standard she's using

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

78. In that context, yes, she would be right. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

64. "Hillary just OFFENDED the hell out of me .."

So what else is new?

[truebrit71]

67. Aaah, poor Hillary...it must be so difficult for you as a multi-millionaire white woman in today's..

...modern society...

:eyes:

[Terran]

68. Sigh. What was the context of her statement?

I'm really getting sick of people on both sides being so willing to isolate statements made by the candidates in this manner.

The statement, by itself, does not establish a hierarchy of discrimination. I think you're just looking a bit too hard for ways to be offended here. I'm a BIG supporter of Obama at this point, but I don't like where you've gone with this.

[msongs]

72. slime and phony outrage are the marching orders of the chosen one's faithful nt

[ProSense]

76. No, it was her response to being asked directly if sexism played a role in her losing. n/t

[wndycty]

77. The question from Ann Curry was:

Do you feel the playing field has not been level because you are a woman?

[peacebaby3]

92. It was ridiculous of her to compare her run for President to the struggle of women

throughout the world. Her statement is still correct, but in that context she made herself look very petty and elitist.

[Terran]

132. Okay, I have to agree

She's one of the most privileged people on the planet, trying to get the planet's most important job. It hardly compares to the struggle of women generally, world-wide. A very very inappropriate response, IMO.

[defendandprotect]

197. And do we have HRC's entire reply to that ?

[mamalone]

74. Do we really have to do this???

This type of thing reminds me of the kind of wrangle my kids get into when they are tired and worn out... I always tell them, "It's NOT a competition!"

so guys I'm telling you... "IT'S NOT A COMPETITION!"

sadly, there's enough injustice to go around... everyone can have their share:(

[wndycty]

79. That was the point I was trying to make in the OP. . .

. . .but I'm being painted as some type of insensitive sexist who is ignorant of the issues of sexual mutilation, and other crimes against women.

[Phillycat]

84. Can't imagine why we would think that.

When you replied with answers like "How many women will be pulled over today?", and demonstrated completely that you don't understand what "pervasive" means.

[wndycty]

97. Well for folks in the inner city pervasive would be the reality they live everyday. . .

. . .for women in Africa pervasive would be the reality they live everyday. I understand the word pervasive very well.

Ann Curry's question was not about women throughout the world it was about the struggles Hillary has as the 1st female candidate.

[Phillycat]

103. Oh my god. Oh my god!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, look. THAT IS STILL NOT WHAT PERVASIVE MEANS. You really need to look it up.

[mamalone]

94. Sorry....

I didn't mean to imply that! I think this part of your post makes that pretty clear:

*I need to say there is no HIERARCHY OF VICTIMIZATION, anyone who has experienced discrimination knows this.*

Even though I was technically responding to your post, I was actually reacting to all of childish fussing that was going on in the responses... and of course to dear Hillary herself.

[NorthCarolina]

83. But they execute Gays in some countries

so, wouldn't that at least be "marginally" worse discrimination?? :wtf:

[PBS Poll-435]

85. I am pretty sure they execute women in those same countries...

And for the same reasons.

Obey, comply, & do not show any hint of femininity...

[wndycty]

86. The intent of the OP was not to compare. . .DISCRIMINATION no matter who its against. . .

. . .is bad.

[bluetrain]

87. The argument is quantity not quality.

[girl gone mad]

180. And in some countries, baby girls are executed..

just for being born female.

Tens of millions of them in China and India simply discarded.

[Marrah_G]

223. And are some women not gay?

Discrimination against women crosses all lines, it is everywhere, it effects 50% of the worlds population.

Those countries you are talking about also execute women for the crime of being raped or endless other made up reasons.

[sarge43]

89. Oh please, Senator

Yes, the world wide discrimination against women ranges from subtle death by a thousand cuts to lethal. However, and I say this as a woman who has dealt with gender bigotry, the ugliest and most pervasive discrimination is economic. If you are economically well off, you have power and you're seldom harassed, at least not more than once. If you're poor by the standards of your society, you're in the outhouse basement and your race, gender, ethnicity gives you no protection whatsoever. In many cases your label just makes it worse.

[wndycty]

91. No economic is not the most pervasive. . .the competition for the most pervasive

form of discrimination. . .will have no winner! Simply put.

[Raejeanowl]

93. Blacks In Elective Office

Is it just possible that the reason we have more white women governors, senators and congressmen is because we have more white women in the U.S. population? Or are we going for quotas again and all rational explanations fly out the window, because the real issue is that, however well-qualified, they're "taking positions away" from affirmatively elected black men?

Issues of her candidacy notwithstanding, I think Hillary used the wrong word to illustrate the real problem. Sexism may or may not be the MOST pervasive, but when and where it occurs, it is still more readily dismissed and accepted than any other form of bigotry.

There most certainly is a hierarchy of victimization in the manner by which it is (or isn't) detected, addressed and rectified. A lot of someones, somewhere, do hold perceptions about which acts of prejudice are less socially acceptable than others.

[wndycty]

96. Unfortunately, folks do hold those perceptions. . .

. . .and when one puts a hierarchy in place it often dismisses someone else struggle.

[merh]

95. Here you go, here is a true female hero

Someone that did make it up the ranks, on her own, that did fight against the adversities and the discrimination and past the harassment and scorn to be the top in her field.

Hillary has got nothing on this woman and it annoys me to no end that others think she is such a shining example, that she has struggled and she cares. Tell me what she did on the board of WalMart to make it easier for women in that organization to enjoy equal benefits?

D.C.'s first female police chief not afraid of a challenge
POSTED: 2122 GMT (0522 HKT), May 8, 2007

(CNN) -- The new Washington police chief, Cathy Lanier, is no stranger to challenges.

She dropped out of high school after the ninth grade, and gave birth to her son when she was just 15.

"Instead of viewing the situation as negative, you just kind of have to move on," she told CNN in a recent interview. "I had a child to raise and that was the most important thing to me. And I knew that I wanted him to go to good schools, and I knew I wanted him to have the option to go to college. ...So I just ... pushed on."

She later earned a high school equivalency degree, and became a police officer in 1990. She also went on to receive bachelor's and master's degrees in management from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, and another master's degree in national security from the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California.

"It was a lot of long hours, but I just enjoy learning, and it has helped me tremendously in my profession," she said of her education.

Much like her personal life, her 17 years in the police force are peppered with highs and lows.

She has held an impressive number of high-level positions, including the first commanding officer for the Metropolitan Police Department's Office of Homeland Security and Counter-Terrorism.

But she also was sexually harassed on the job in 1995 by a lieutenant who sometimes supervised her, according to The Washington Post. Lanier and another female colleague sued the city. The district eventually settled the case, and $75,000 to Lanier and Sgt. Lena V. Johnson, The Post reported in 1997.

"It had happened several times in my career," Lanier told CNN about the harassment. "I looked around, and I knew there were so many other police women that were going through the same thing. ...I just thought at some point somebody has to stand up and say something."

Lanier -- the first female police chief of the nation's capital -- has big plans for her force. "We need to move our organization forward with technology. We want to be very progressive," she said. "But I think the interaction with the public, the customer service is so critical. ... Our focus is there."

She added, "I want to recruit and retain the best policemen in the country.

Or go check out the CEO of International House of Pancakes, who began waiting tables and now runs the corporation that just bought out Applebees.

IHOP Corp. Chairman and CEO Julia Stewart’s steady climb through the ranks has made her one of a few industry women to reach the top job of a large company.

http://www.chainleader.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6515966&article_prefix=CA&article_id=6515966

Neither of the two woman I have named got where they are because of their husband. They did it on their own, they are true female heros.

[suzie]

187. Those are pioneers

Senator Clinton, not so much.

How many politicians started their career running for the most exclusive club in the world, the U.S. Senate? Many politicians lose a race early in their career. They learn from that loss--Bill Clinton did, Barack Obama did.

Hillary Clinton has never lost because she was given with a Senate seat. It's pretty much agreed that she's not run a very good campaign. That's probably because she's never run a real campaign. Unlike the two women mentioned who have accomplishments of their own--Hillary Clinton was simply gifted with elected office.

[merh]

191. you are right

and welcome to DU :hi:

[TragedyandHope]

99. What ever it takes to win

(or to not loose so badly). We've gone over this topic before. No one should vote on "who is the bigger victim," it simply doesn't have any bearing on the ability to do the job.

[madrchsod]

101. what is her opinion on the E.R.A amendment?

has she walked the walk? or does she just talk the talk?

[OzarkDem]

123. Supports it

Wish we could finish getting it ratified.

[madrchsod]

165. ....just three more states.

[uberblonde]

102. Do you have a dictionary?

Please look up the word "pervasive." Thank you.

[Jamastiene]

104. Right. When you grow a vagina and have to live as a woman,

then say something. In the meantime, butt out. You have no right to tell us whether we face pervasive discrimination or not.

[wndycty]

128. I'm not trying to say women don't face pervasive discrimination. . .I take issue with the "most"

Don't even pretend like I'm diminishing the discrimination that women face. I'm just taking issue with the hierarchy aspect.

[Jamastiene]

152. You are cherry picking.

No wonder you pissed so many people off. Why take issue on some minor part of the larger point if you claim to agree with the larger point? You are just poking around TRYING to be pissed off at something she said. Jeez, show some initiative and try to find something worth getting all pissed off about instead of dissecting a major point and going off about it.

[MethuenProgressive]

105. Another OP fished out of the toilet. Flush next time. Your shit is not all that impressive,

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

112. Wipe your face, you've drooled some OP.

Keep your hobbies to yourself.

[OzarkDem]

122. ..

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[goletian]

109. shes got it wrong. sexual discrimination.

[Clintonista2]

121. Huh?

What was she wrong about?

[goletian]

135. men and women are both held to different expectations for their sex.

[Clintonista2]

137. No shit sherlock, that's called "discrimination." So where is she wrong?

[goletian]

143. discrimination against women

its against men as well.

[Clintonista2]

144. It's called "discrimination against women," not "discrimination against men and women."

Find me a single culture that will stone a man to death for driving.

[goletian]

149. there are plenty cultures that dont do that, besides

any culture that would stone a woman for that is likely to stone people of any sex for a variety of ridiculous things.

[Clintonista2]

154. So just so I understand you, there's really no such thing as discrimination against women?

To borrow from Cali (of all people)- how many men will be raped in darfur today? How many men will be sold into prostitution? How many men will be married against their will? Denying the fact that discrimination exists, is a right wing tactic.


GET A CLUE.

[goletian]

164. lol, cant read, eh? i never said that. - nt

[Clintonista2]

117. "pervasive" means that this form of discrimination exists everywhere

It exists in every society. She certainly wasn't saying that it was at the top of some sort of heirarchy, as you seem to have simply misunderstood the word "pervasive," and then went from there.

[Jamastiene]

124. Right. Pervasive means all over the place, not "more."

How pervasive can be misconstrued that way, I don't know. Wait, I do know. The mind of a rabid Obamaite; they can do that in their sleep.

[SoonerPride]

125. If you can't stand the heat, Hillary, maybe you should stay in the kitchen?

;)

[panAmerican]

129. She repulsively claims she's trying to break the glass ceiling!

Glass ceiling for the wife of the "best" modern politician, first lady and most famous current senator? Give me a break! She's full of it!

[knixphan]

130. K&R

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

131. Seems To Me You Just Get Offended Easily, And Likely Enjoy Being Offended. She Was Right.

What she said and how she said it was absolutely right. What was contained in the statement that was oh so utterly offensive to you, is anyone's guess...

[PBS Poll-435]

136. Phony Outrage is PERVASIVE in GDP nt

[kath]

201. An impoverished vocabulary is PERVASIVE here. Jeebus Haploid Christ, people, this is a common SAT

word, not even GRE-level. (one of the 250 most common SAT words) Any reasonably competent high school student should understand this word. But, apparently, many on DU do not. I thought this was a fairly literate place...

LOOK IT UP.

I'm no Hillary fan, but the ignorance is mind-boggling here sometimes...

[kath]

202. delete

[BREMPRO]

134. i'm no longer surprised when HRC distorts the truth for strategic political points.

I don't know how anyone can still support her. She also said today that she would "totally Obliterate" Iran if they attacked Isreal. WTF! I thought we were done with this kind of irresponsible war mongering. We seem to have two republicans running against one democrat. I'm voting for the democrat.

Peace.

[Clintonista2]

138. What truth was she distorting?

Are you actually suggesting that discrimination against women doesn't exist?

[BREMPRO]

224. of course women suffer discrimination around the world,

but as the orignal poster points out, the way she singles out one group offends other groups who suffer discrimination.
She's only bringing this up to play to the 51% female base, just like her big announcement on fighting breast cancer (why not prostate cancer too?)
it's political pandering, divisive, and distorts the truth.

[Arkansas Granny]

139. Please read some of the information on this site and you can see the

pervasiveness of gender discrimination.

http://www.gendercide.org/

I don't mean to trivialize racial discrimination, because it does exist and it is wrong. However, gender discrimination is evident in nearly all societies world wide, and can range from inequalities in employment to lterally a matter of life or death.

[wndycty]

142. My point is simple. . .there is no hierarchy of discrimination. . .

. . .this is contest that no one will win.

I don't say that to trivialize or dismiss discrimination towards women. Gender discrimination is not the only discrimination that can result in death. Genocide ALWAYS results in death and most genocide is not gender based. Often times genocide is not even racial but ethnic or tribal.

[Clintonista2]

145. Nobody implied that there was a hierarchy except for you

[Texas Hill Country]

146. you people are just getting silly... she is actually right, because it crosses all lines....

it is more PERVASIVE, not more severe, not worse, more PERVASIVE. name another minority group that comprises 53-55% of the worlds population...


kthnx.

[wndycty]

147. If you are 53-55% of the world's population you are not a minority group

:kick:

[Texas Hill Country]

162. exactly... women comprise more than half the worlds pop, yet they are a minority is social strata.

it's called sexism and discrimination for a reason...

thanks for proving my point.

[turkishroyal]

148. You're not being fair in your comparisons

She never said white women, you need to adjust your comparisons to a black man verse a black woman or a Japanese man verse a Japanese woman in order to illustrate the point she was making.

[lumberjack_jeff]

150. The key phrase is "in the world".

It is certainly accurate.

You occupy a tiny part of the world in which discrimination against women is comparatively minor.

[wndycty]

151. As does Hillary and the question asked related to her candidacy. . .not the woman of the world. . .

:kick:

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. I can read.

"The most pervasive form of discrimination in the world, no matter what the ethnicity, the race, the religion of the people who live in society, is discrimination against women."

This sentence is accurate. Gender discrimination is the most pervasive form of discrimination in the world. You can find it almost everywhere you go.

The unanswered questions are:
1) what do you do about it?
2) what is the magnitude of the problem here?

[MNBrewer]

170. Most pervasive...

Well, that's her opinion. However, I think there are probably other forms of discrimination that are EQUALLY pervasive. Anti-homosexual discrimination being one of them.

[Mimosa]

153. Hillary's just a "Girl"

I get nauseated hearing Hillary referring to herself as a 'girl' and Bill doing the same.

American women have great lives and more options than women everywhere else. More women go to college here. Hillary playing the victim card, trying to make middleaged women feel fearful and scared for ourselves, is repulsive.

[Clintonista2]

156. If you have a penis then you really shouldn't be lecturing women on discrimination

[lumberjack_jeff]

157. No, we're all entitled to voice our opinions.

Even if he is wrong.

[Clintonista2]

158. Of course, but he has no right to TELL WOMEN they aren't being discriminated against

When he hasn't walked in their shoes. Reminds me of men who try to tell women what they should do with their body.

[lumberjack_jeff]

161. One person's "tell" is another person's "discuss". n/t

[Duppers]

160. Hillary is RIGHT ON THIS!

I think her statement is obvious; however, I do NOT support Hillary's candidacy.

[depakid]

163. Sorry, but she's absolutely right in this case

Women of ALL races are subjugated and systematically abused all over the world.

The trouble with your diatribe is (beyond the obvious Hillary hatred that's blurring your vision) is that you're unable to step out of your own personal situation and take a look at the REALITY of the situations women face in Eastern Europe, in Africa, Asia South America -and still, to an extent, in Western nations like America and even Australia.

If you were able to do that, my guess is that you might reformulate your opinion....

[guruoo]

166. She's spot on, IMO.

[pnwmom]

167. It looks to me like you're overreacting.

Especially considering that she's probably right, given the sheer numbers involved.

[barack the house]

169. Fully agree . There are far more suffering due to their ehtnicity than soley their gender out there

[grizmaster]

172. Hillary is completely right

What flavor is the koolaid today?

[William769]

174. She seems to offend you on a daily basis.

Why should today be any different? :shrug:

[tandot]

175. The truth offends you just because you hate Hillary so much?

"The most pervasive form of discrimination in the world, no matter what the ethnicity, the race, the religion of the people who live in society, is discrimination against women."

Just get a dictionary to understand the word "pervasive" and do a little more research on discrimination against and abuses of females across the world:

"Combatants and their sympathizers in conflicts, such as those in Sierra Leone, Kosovo, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan, and Rwanda, have raped women as a weapon of war with near complete impunity. Men in Pakistan, South Africa, Peru, Russia, and Uzbekistan beat women in the home at astounding rates, while these governments alternatively refuse to intervene to protect women and punish their batterers or do so haphazardly and in ways that make women feel culpable for the violence. As a direct result of inequalities found in their countries of origin, women from Ukraine, Moldova, Nigeria, the Dominican Republic, Burma, and Thailand are bought and sold, trafficked to work in forced prostitution, with insufficient government attention to protect their rights and punish the traffickers. In Guatemala, South Africa, and Mexico, women's ability to enter and remain in the work force is obstructed by private employers who use women's reproductive status to exclude them from work and by discriminatory employment laws or discriminatory enforcement of the law. In the U.S., students discriminate against and attack girls in school who are lesbian, bi-sexual, or transgendered, or do not conform to male standards of female behavior. Women in Morocco, Jordan, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia face government-sponsored discrimination that renders them unequal before the law - including discriminatory family codes that take away women's legal authority and place it in the hands of male family members - and restricts women's participation in public life."

more at link: http://hrw.org/women/

[MNBrewer]

176. Hillary is the one who made this a contest

She's the one who said it's the MOST pervasive form of discrimination. Anti-homosexual discrimination doesn't occur in each of those nations mentioned in your quote? It's not whether the discrimination is better or worse, but whether it OCCURS that determines pervasiveness.

No doubt anti-female discrimination exists and is widespread. Most pervasive? Maybe, maybe not. It's an opinion, and SHE'S the one who put it at the top of the pervasiveness hierarchy.

[tandot]

186. She is right. Do some research.

:eyes:

[MNBrewer]

199. Do some living

[tandot]

211. In the words of my favorite comedian Ron White:

"You can't fix stupid"

I'd rather rely on research and science, not on some unsupported hunches by people who live in a bubble.

Please don't bother to reply. I have better things to do. Have a great live.

[Skittles]

190. it's not an opinion, it's a fucking fact

DO SOME RESEARCH

[Skittles]

179. she is absolutely correct

it is INDEED the most pervasive kind of discrimination

[PeaceNikki]

181. Are you fucking serious?

:wtf:

[arcane1]

184. What is so offensive about that 100% true statement?

:shrug:

[roseBudd]

185. She is losing because he is more talented than she

[defendandprotect]

188. Agree with you, in part . . .

The most pervasive form of discrimination in the world, no matter what the ethnicity, the race, the religion of the people who live in society, is discrimination against women.

But, basically, it's a matter of numbers . . .

Presumably as male violence took off, it's first attacks were on nature/animal-life . . .
That war on nature has never subsided --- in fact they have near brought our species
and this planet to an end ---

The next victims were women and it seems to have been a 50,000 year war -- at least --- on females to subdue them. Women are the majority of the people on the planet. Presumably, if uninterferred with, we would number as high as 57% female vs 43% males. In a sense there is a "hierarchy of discrimination" in that women are most of the people on the planet and they were the first HUMAN victims of patriarchy.

Of course ALL discrimination is serious and vile -- and basically, exploitation.

As to your specific questions, I hope others will offer some some thoughts on this . . .
but as I see it, "white" women would have greater access to education and connections, while they would also outnumber "black" males. It's undeniable, however, that "blacks" --- both male and female -- have been kept out of the House and Senate --- and obviously Governorships -- purposefully.
As women have also been kept out of government.
Women -- "black/white" -- should be the MAJORITY in government.


* Obviously, both males and females of Jewish heritage suffered equally in Nazi Germany --
and that's the point. Numbers ---

* If you look at race -- more than half the members are female.
However, "black" males got the vote BEFORE "black" females and "white" females.

* If you look at religion --- more than half the members are female, though traditionally
prevented from any participation in ritual and authority.

* In slavery --- did the black woman suffer less than the black male?

* In WWII -- was it better to be a "white" woman or a Japanese male?
You are discounting the fact that Japanese women also suffered and that "white" males
were also better off.

* If the subject is marriage, a straight woman has no more rights than a straight male.
And both lesbians and gays are prevented from getting married.
But, ALL males have enjoyed rights denied to females -- even under our Constitution still --
which any male, including gay males enjoy.

* Certainly our jails are filled with "blacks" and other people of color; obviously purposefully.
But they are also now more and more filling them up with women thanks to Reagan.


Again -- discrimination against women is simply the most pervasive because of the numbers ---

And -- I support Obama and would never vote for HRC . . . mainly because she is DLC and because of her behavior --- she's a snake.

[femrap]

189. Are you so blinded that you

don't see how women in the WORLD are treated. Want your clit cut off with a dull stone? Millions of young girls around 12 years old endure this. When land mines are buried....women go first, then the donkeys.

And who are still slaves? WOMEN. Do you realize how many billions of dollars are being made by men selling women into sex slavery. Who is doing anything about that? Does Obama care?

You need to open your eyes....use them to read instead of spouting off about what you have no clue.


Another willfully ignorant

[MNBrewer]

200. and what does this have to do with HRC?

[femrap]

210. go have another beer

and then go play in the traffic...do us all a favor. If you can't connect 2 dots, it's time you leave. buh bye.

[katandmoon]

198. ITA with her -- women are discriminated against DOUBLY --

Both as women, and as whatever group they're part of that's being targeted.

Get back to me when men are routinely raped and impregnated as part of war, 'K?

[kath]

203. P-E-R-V-A-S-I-V-E. The dictionary is your friend. Look it up.

puh-LEEEZE.

[cap hill]

204. Do you know what "pervasive" means?

You seem to have your panties all in a knot for no reason.

Run and get your dictionary, please. It has nothing to do with a "hierarchy of victimization." Oh, you screamed that, sorry, I should have capitalized it.

Your points are irrelevant to what Hillary said.

Where did your grandmother ride? I only ask because you didn't mention her. Sometimes, people are unaware of just how pervasive sexism is, you see.

[cap hill]

205. So, has sexism affected this election?

I've read so many "comments" online from Obama supporters about Hillary like "Where's my dinner, bitch?" or "Hillary's Hags" that I'd have to think it has. They're easy enough to find. Do you suppose the derogatory tone and terms are just coincidental? If you do, well, you might be sexist too.

I do support Hillary Clinton and would not if I didn't think she could handle the job better than others in the field. I don't think that Obama is ready for this office yet.

As a woman, I think that we might finally see the ERA passed with her in office and feel more certainty that we'll truly emerge from discrimination in this country. If you don't think it still exists, then you need to become more aware. Granted, if you've lived with a silver spoon in your mouth, then you have been buffered, but think about it. Yes, the women in my family have been going to college for over a hundred years, so it took me a while to cognize reality and to appreciate what women who had gone before me had won and were still working towards.

As a boomer, I'd like to see Hillary take care of cleaning up "W's" mess. I'm certainly happy to help her in any way I can. I do not want him to be the sole representative of my generation in the presidency. (OMG...)

[LulaMay]

206. Do you know what "pervasive" means?! I mean, we're over half the population. DUH.

She said nothing about any type of discrimination being worse than another.

YOU said that.

Over half the population of this world has been oppressed throughout written history.

Is that not PERVASIVE enough for you?!

[donheld]

209. Well you can just stay offended. Hillary is right as rain on that

Out of the 160 + nations on earth I'd say 75% of the people of those
nations believe women are inferior to men, and are treated that way.

Western Europe, Canada, the US and maybe Japan are about the
only places that even come close to giving women a fair shake.

[DemBones DemBones]

213. Indeed she is. If Hillary were a man, Obama would be out of the race.

He's getting the misogynist vote.

[wndycty]

220. And why exactly would Obama be out, he has more delegates, more votes?

Explain that statement.

[Marrah_G]

214. You missed the part where she said "In the world"- Indeed she is correct

If you cannot acknowledge that on the entire planet the most discriminated group is the female group then all I can say is please go do some research.

[MyNameGoesHere]

216. Ok let's be fair and try this. I changed the scenario a little.

In Nazi Germany was it better to be a Jewish woman or a Jewish man? First the Nazis would rape the woman and then kill her. i don't know maybe they deserved it?

During slavery and Jim Crow was it better to be a Black woman or a Black man? During slavery the white master had been known to have a little fun with the black women slaves. They pretty much got the same amount of beatings, denigration and hardships. She just had the extra task of putting out for horny master.

During World World II was it better to be a white woman or a Japanese man? I have no clue. But Asian woman especially Korean became "comfort women" for Japanese soldiers.

When it comes to marriage who has the right to get married? A Gay woman or a gay man? pretty much both are screwed here.

Who is more likely to get pulled over and possibly go to jail? A law abiding Black man or a black woman with crack in her purse? the woman who is addicted will have her children taken away and be thrown in jail.

[Marrah_G]

222. This thread has put a spotlight on the ignorance of some here

People are so eager to jump on anything she says that they do not even bother to read the quote or take the time to understand the quote.

Your(and many others on this thread) blind hatred of Sen Clinton has warped your view of reality.