Caller to Stephanie's Show Said Some Ballots in Pa Don't Have Obama's Name

[ellacott]

Stephanie Miller said she had heard this and someone emailed her a picture of the ballot.

I haven't seen anything on the web. If true, I hope it gets corrected quickly.

[islandmkl]

1. those must be left-over ballots from the Michigan 'primary'...

hopefully, this will just be BS...hopefully....

[flpoljunkie]

2. Now that's one way to fix an election! Surely it's not true!

[bluetrain]

3. That's not good..../nt

[ncrainbowgrrl]

4. Just heard that...

God, I hope it's not true. Like we need MORE controversy surrounding this primary? :banghead:

[helderheid]

5. GODDAMNIT

[EFerrari]

10. Here we go. n/t

[helderheid]

24. hold on tight!

[EFerrari]

79. Did that turn out to be just a flyer? n/t

[mystieus]

6. Picture of ballot

[MaineDem]

Well that's not good! n/t

[Divernan]

58. It's all about WALKING AROUND MONEY. See post 53 below.

[Ian David]

13. That's the sample ballot, not the actual, working ballot.

Still, someone needs to have words with The Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia.

[Connie_Corleone]

17. This is a sample ballot. They have voting machines.

The question is why does the sample ballot provided by the DCEC of Philadelphia not have Obama's name on it.

[SunsetDreams]

100. I think the caller is referring to Provisional Ballot

that's what I heard yesterday anyway.

[helderheid]

18. GODDAMNIT!!!

:mad:

[Ian David]

21. It looks like several names may be missing from the sample ballot

#1, #6, #7, #8, #11, #12, #13, #15, #16, #17, #19, #22, #23, #24, #25, #27, #28 and #29.

[Maddy McCall]

29. Of course there are names missing. People make sample ballots all the time...

and distribute them to support a slate of candidates that they support.

Jesus, can y'all find anything more ridiculous to gripe about?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MidwestTransplant]

22. It's a Philly ballot and the Mayor and Gov. I love Farrakahan Rendel are pretty influential there.

Both support Hillary of course.

[Maddy McCall]

26. You do know what a sample ballot is, don't you?

That's what that is.

[onehandle]

33. The sky is falling.

I'd look up to make sure, but that would require pausing and thinking.

[MaineDem]

46. In many states "sample ballot" is an exact copy of the ballot

It's posted at the polling locations so voters can look at it before going into the booth.

If this was one of those I'd be more concerned. If it's, as it appears to be, a ballot within a Voter's Guide that's a different story.

I think getting concerned about any possible voting discrepancy is worthy of discussion regardless of which side seems to benefit.

[InsultComicDog]

49. Here in PA

if anyone hands you a "sample ballot", it's advertising, not a true nonpartisan guide. Although there is frequently a poster with an actual facsimile of the ballot hung up somewhere.

[crankychatter]

62. GOOD INFORMATION HERE

sorry bout the caps... just thought ppl should read what you said there

[Emit]

66. Even County Democratic Committees?

I could see if htis were a candidate's sample ballot, but this one is from the County Democratic Executive Committee of Philadelphia. Are county parties allowed to be biased like that?

[InsultComicDog]

97. no reason they can't

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. That looks like it is a particular faction's ballot - it obviously doesn't

have all the names for each office on it, but their particular choice. HOWEVER, it has the imprimatur of the Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia.

I'd guess, those are the DLC choices.

[Divernan]

53. Looks like this is payback to Obama for not continuing corrupt "WALKING AROUND" money to local dems.

Bottom of the "ballot":

"PAID FOR BY DEMOCRATIC COUNTY EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF PHILADELPHIA, FRANK L. OLIVER, TREASURER"

Frank Oliver has been a black member of the PA House of Representatives since around 1973. He is an old school Phillie machine party politician. There was a big stink in Phillie earlier about Obama refusing to continue the corrupt practise of handing out $$$ to neighborhood locals on election day.


http://ronmwangaguhunga.blogspot.com/2008/04/obama-refuses-to-pay-walking-around.html

"The dispute centers on the dispensing of 'street money,' a long-standing Philadelphia ritual in which candidates deliver cash to the city's Democratic operatives in return for getting out the vote.
"Flush with payments from well-funded campaigns, the ward leaders and Democratic Party bosses typically spread out the cash in the days before the election, handing $10, $20 and $50 bills to the foot soldiers and loyalists who make up the party's workforce.

"It is all legal -- but Obama's people are telling the local bosses he won't pay. "That sets up a culture clash, pitting a candidate who promises to transform American politics against the realities of a local political system important to his presidential hopes. Pennsylvania holds its primary April 22.

"Obama's posture confounds neighborhood political leaders sympathetic to his cause. They caution that if the senator from Illinois withholds money that gubernatorial, mayoral and presidential candidates have willingly paid out for decades, there could be defections to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. And the Clinton campaign, in contrast, will oblige in forking over the money, these ward leaders predict."
#########################################

Looks like Clinton DID fork over the money. This is exactly the "old-style" of politics which Clinton would continue and which Obama would change.

[guruoo]

76. Does gas money count?

How about money for a rental car to haul around canvassers that lack transportation?

[guruoo]

67. That's not a real ballot, that's a local party handout.

look at the last line.

[cornermouse]

73. "You may take this ballot into the voting booth with you"

That means it's not an actual ballot... When all else fails, read.

[gkhouston]

86. and the voting hours are given -- you wouldn't see that on a real sample

ballot, i.e., a paper copy of the full ballot.

[phrigndumass]

96. "Paid for by the Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia"

It's the local county's endorsements, the equivalent to an advertisement.

[MaineDem]

7. I hope they're GOP ballots

I can't imagine why he'd be left off any others.

[Ian David]

8. Watch THIS space for photos....

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/liveblog/?PageId=81&PageSubId=117

[Connie_Corleone]

9. Those are Sample ballots, not the actual ballots.

But the Obama campaign is on it.

[ellacott]

12. That's good news

[MaineDem]

15. But sample ballots should be copies of the real one.

At least here they have to be.

Glad to hear someone's looking into this.

[Ian David]

23. It may not be an official sample ballot, but may actually be a "Voting Guide."

Note it says to vote yes on the questions. It takes a position on issues that are being voted on. Not a sample ballot-- a voting guide.

Also, sample ballots are provided by the registrar of voters or secretary of state, NOT the local party.

Also note that it also appears to be "missing" several candidates, including President Obama.

My guess is that this isn't an official sample ballot, but is instead a voting guide of candidates endorsed by The Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia.

If that is the case, it should not be passed out or displayed within a certain distance of the polling place, or it violates federal law.



This is a Voting Guide, NOT a sample ballot, and should NOT be labeled "Official Democratic Ballot" and should NOT be distributed or displayed inside the polling place.

[MaineDem]

27. Good point

That's exactly what it looks like. These are probably the endorsed candidates, although I'd be very upset with an Executive Council taking sides in a primary.

I can't imagine this is an "official" sample ballot. I think you're right.

[Ian David]

32. As far as I know, they ARE allowed to take sides during a Primary.

However, they are NOT allowed to:

1) Misrepresent a voting guide as a sample ballot.
2) Distribute a voting guide inside a polling place, or within x number of feet from the door.
3) Display a voting guide inside a polling place, or within x number of feet from the door.
4) Be complete and total douchebags (that's a technical term contained within article 69 of the Voting Rights Act, I believe, but I may be wrong about that one.)

[yardwork]

28. That's what it is. It's a voting guide being handed out to tell people how to vote.

It's being handed to people to copy in the voting booth.

[Irishonly]

77. It Seems To Me

Senator Obama's name should have been on it if the voting guide came from the democratic party. If it was an endorsement for Hillary it should have shown it was.

[mystieus]

16. Why are they handing out sample ballots?

[Zachstar]

11. Just great looks like this already is going to be a clusterfuck of a primary.

I cant wait until an open source standard for voting is ratified into law.

[Kittycat]

14. Someone needs to call the Obama campaign/voter issue line and alert them of this right away.

[Connie_Corleone]

19. They know about it.

[olkaz]

20. I would go freaking nuts if somebody handed me that ballot.

I hope this is remedied immediately.

[guruoo]

69. Nothing new here - It's been common practice for as long as I can remember

Still doesn't make it right, though.

[Lucky 13]

80. They'd need an elephant tranquilizer to calm me down.

[2rth2pwr]

93. why?

Would you think that Obama had withdrawn?

[AllentownJake]

25. Every machine in PA

Is electronic so there must be a bug with the software.

[onehandle]

30. Sample ballots. Get a grip. nt

[Ian David]

35. Voting guide disguised as a sample ballot. n/t

[onehandle]

36. And not the screen from the voting booth.

I still say, get a grip.

[Ian David]

45. Agreed. Not the end of the world. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

52. A "voting guide" IS a sample ballot.

[yourguide]

63. NO IT'S NOT.

This is an example of a voting guide:



or this:

ttp://2004.georgewbush.org/deadletteroffice/attachments/Dear-Fellow-American0001.gif


What we are discussing is a voting guide intentionally meant to deceive so it appears to be a ballot.

[Ian David]

65. But this one says "OFFICIAL" on it, which is a lie. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

31. Bwahahaha! So this is the excuse for when hillary trounces barack tonight.

Can't y'all find something less ridiculous to whine about than a SAMPLE BALLOT?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

50. Do you know what a "voting guide" is?

It's a SAMPLE BALLOT.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guruoo]

72. This 'mislabling' thing is nothing new...

I've seen it happen in nearly every election I've participated in.
People always gripe about it, but then they still show up at the next election.

[Lucky 13]

81. BURN!

[Beaverhausen]

94. what's with the namecalling?

maybe you should cut out the nastiness for a bit.

Then again, reading your responses when they have been proven wrong is kind of entertaining.

[ellacott]

44. Can't you find something else to besides posting the same thing in this thread

poor thing.

[SwampG8r]

55. you are off you talking point for today maddie

today is "why cant he seal the deal"
try to keep the RW talking point schedule right
mmkay?

[BornBlue]

71. So we are all on the same page

Hillary supporters feel caucus's are unfair because it is public voting, and a few exuberant supporters can sway the opinion one way or another(Say in the favor of Obama), but they are a-okay with elected officials deliberately misleading voters by distributing "voting guides" in the disguise of "sample ballots"?

Come on, this is all because he refused to give out the walking money. This is the kind of corrupt politics that need to stop. No campaigning is allowed in poling places. If a voter needs to make a cheat sheet to remember who to vote for that is one thing, but this is illegal. Public money paid for this, and it should not favor one candidate over another.

[Orangepeel]

34. It is not unheard of for supporters of a campaign to hand out "sample ballots" with only their name

I'm not saying it's not sleazy, just that it's common in machine politics. I'm sure that Obama's Chicago people were expecting it.

[onehandle]

38. Historically, a common practice. Ironically, especially in Chicago. nt

[Ian David]

40. So long as they don't do it inside the polling place, or right outside the door, it's probably legal

[InsultComicDog]

47. They pass them out right in the doorway

of the school where we vote. But once inside you have to walk down a long hallway to get to the gym where the voting actually takes place.

[Maddy McCall]

51. 150' here.

I'm sure that's the same elsewhere in federal elections.

[Adelante]

64. It's a Democratic County Executive Committee, not a supporter

If the bottom line is correct. It's an official part of the Democratic Party. No, it is not common.

[Orangepeel]

75. sure it is. That's the way machine politics works.

That's one of the reasons it is so hard to beat the machine.

I don't know the PA rules about local organizations endorsing. (In Florida, they aren't supposed to, but the consequences are mild). Assuming the "Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia" is an official part of the party, they might have endorsed. I think the mayor is a Clinton supporter.

[BlooInBloo]

39. It being a sample ballot makes it epsilonishly better, but that's all.

[InsultComicDog]

41. silly season

That looks like it's from NE Philly, since Allyson Schwartz is on the ballot and it's from Philadelphia.

There are always people at the polls handing us stuff like that, if it had multiple choices on it it would be the exception rather than the rule.

[NoPasaran]

48. Ha ha. All your vote are belong to us!

Take your hope and shove it!

[CountAllVotes]

61. huh?

that makes no sense - illiterate?

[Lucky 13]

84. It's a nerd reference...

back in the late 80's or early 90's there was this crappy video game created in Japan. They MANGLED the english translations throughout the game and at some point they say the phrase: "All your base are belong to us!"

It's turned into a nerd catch phrase. Admittedly I have just outed myself as one.

[Norrin Radd]

95. Explained:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

[Lucky 13]

82. And all Hillary's base are belong to us!!

Nerds unite!

[maximusveritas]

56. Maybe if Obama's bill on Deceptive election practices had been passed

this kind of thing would be illegal.

It had been written in response to the bill's other co-sponsor, Ben Cardin, getting this tactic used against him in Maryland by Michael Steele.

The bottom line is that they're trying to deceive people and disenfranchise them. That shouldn't be allowed.

[uberblonde]

57. What a bunch of uninformed maroons.

The Democratic City Committee made up ballots with Obama and Obama delegate candidates on it, and ballots with Clinton and Clinton delegate candidates on it. The ward leaders decided which of the ballots they wanted to distribute.

[ellacott]

70. an uberblonde is calling someone else a maroon

See, I can generalize too.

Can't read and can't keep yourself from posting snark.

[EFerrari]

78. Are you talking about FLYERS or BALLOTS?

[liam_laddie]

87. Of COURSE, it's only a partisan handout...

paid for by the "Democratic County Executive Committee of Philadelphia"- a curious-sounding name IMO. At least there's a union seal. Obviously part of the Rendell machine, or as someone upthread noted, a group upset that Obama isn't buying votes with pocket money. Good on him!

With DRE's, there IS no ballot, only some zero's and one's in a digital memory card somewhere. At least with opscans, there really is a "ballot." Or at least a "voter-marked and scanned" thingie. Whether that hard-copy matches what the software reports is another matter altogether.

The caller to Stephanie is naive or doesn't know what a ballot is; maybe in former lever states, there weren't ballots per se. Did/do levers spit out a receipt? Look what a thread resulted from one person, the caller, not reading the fine print...although well-intentioned.

Too bad the level of competence in the good ol' USA keeps declining.:eyes:

[EFerrari]

88. I know the systems are mixed in PA unlike in other places

where they are straight DREs so I was confused. :crazy:

[aquart]

101. Well, that decision must have been an evil conspiracy, too.

Unless they decided to distribute only the Obama ones. That would have been good government.

[grantcart]

59. This is what political machines do.

[clevbot]

60. yeah, i can't believe people talk about machine politics so kindly

[grantcart]

68. The interesting thing is that in place after place people have abandoned the local machine

[shellgame26]

74. Gee, funny how

all these Clinton supporters here now screaming about Michigan and Florida don't seem to have a problem with this now.

[npincus]

83. kick

[SoCalDem]

85. C'mon people,, use those camera-phones and SHOW us one..

Anecdotal 2nd hand information usually blows up in our faces..

It's probably impossible to leave with a ballot, but surely SOMEONE could at least take a picture of one.. That would make front page news in just about ANY newspaper..

I'm not saying it isn't true..but.. we should have some proof.. It's not that hard to get..

We look stupid when we report on "Susie said her aunt's neighbor said"

[Yael]

90. If they are talking about the image in post 6, that isn't a ballot

it is a promotional piece from one campaign, not the 'sample ballot' from the electoral office.

[SoCalDem]

91. exactly.. if there are real paper ballots with problems

a picture from a phone would clear it up..

haven't seen any yet

[Yael]

89. This isn't what you all think. Mayor just stopped into the Obama office and I showed it to him

He said that is a "palm out" -- given to people entering the polls with only the candidates they are endorsing represented. He said that Cordisco is definitely being opposed by another Dem -- what caught his eye.

Perfectly legal to do.

[Texas Hill Country]

92. how does someone have a copy of the ballot? you cant remove them... fake.

[Vinca]

98. If it's a "sample" ballot they should have made up different names for it.

It's a little unfair to have just Hillary's name on the damn thing. Give it to a stupid person and how do you think they'll vote?

[izzie]

99. That is a made up thing?

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