Feminism benefits all of us.

[libnnc]

And those who call themselves feminists and believe in humanitarianism don't threaten other countries with nuclear holocaust.





It's pretty simple. Nothing to spin.

Feminist theory rejects the patriarchal structure of the military industrial complex.

I'm sure Judith Butler would agree that Hillary Clinton's words today are not the words of someone who espouses feminist ideals.

[liberaldem4ever]

1. K&R I agree with you

[libnnc]

2. I am shocked at those who defend her statement

especially those who have been arguing all along that her candidacy proves that she is the "bestest" feminist of all time

[Sinistrous]

3. Would you consider editing your subject line?

There is a difference between Humanism and Humanitarianism.

Otherwise, good post.

[libnnc]

4. sure

[barack the house]

5. Yep, you can forgive the IWR vote under national pressure but surely not on obliterting Iran.

Let alone the automatic displacementthat of people would not help Israel. Iran have no economic intrest in a nuclear war.

[Skidmore]

6. Yes, indeed.

Which is why much of what Hillary has done and said lately has been shocking. Feminists worked to reduce miliatarism and to eliminate victimhood. I am totally gobsmacked that a woman in this day and age could engage in this type of rhetoric and thinking.

[tishaLA]

7. Well, Butler's writings on Israel

and on "terrorism" have upset many people. She is seen, as I'm sure you know, as a self-loathing Jew because of her anti-Zionist stance and her insistence that we alter the narrative frame of "terrorism" and September 11th's centrality within that narrative.

But then again, I don't think Butler would have much support on here, especially because of the way she configures the questions inherent in the discourses of feminism and identification.

[libnnc]

11. I haven't read any of her recent writings

I just thought from the standpoint of feminist theory, threatening to nuke other countries would be pretty anathema to her beliefs.

[EFerrari]

8. Humanism and humanitarianism are two different ideas.

And many feminists would not agree that feminism is humanism. :crazy:

But, I do agree with you on militarism. :crazy::crazy:

[barack the house]

10. Fundamental factor feminism has long tradition of being anti-war.

[EFerrari]

16. Yup, it sure has been. Anti war, abolition and at times, commie AND pinko.

:)

[libnnc]

12. I changed it

:crazy:

happy?

[EFerrari]

13. I like your editing and agree with it, if that's what you mean!

[Skwmom]

9. False claims of sexism benefits benefits no one.

[femrap]

31. What about false claims

of racism?

Patriarchy is so taken for granted that many can't see the trees for the forest....

[Terran]

14. Does HRC actually claim to be a feminist?

I'm sincerely asking. Obviously I agree with your assertion, and she seems to want to fall back on the idea sometimes, but I'm not aware she's ever actually made that claim.

[libnnc]

18. dunno actually...but so many of her supporters on this board

have championed her candidacy as a "milestone in feminism."

I don't think it has been.

[EFerrari]

20. The few Clinton supporters on this board that reach for the sexism card

for no reason at all don't sound like any feminist I've ever met.

[Terran]

23. Well, ok, but

your post basically implies that she has claimed that mantle herself, and that this conflicts with her sabre-rattling. Just clarifying that part of it. Like I said, I agree with you, and also agree that merely electing a woman president has zip to do with feminism. The US could be electing someone like Libby Dole or Phyllis Schafly, and that would hardly be any great boon for womankind.

[libnnc]

24. Liddy Dole

Liddy not Libby

that's my name...x(

[Terran]

25. LOL, sorry

to you and Liddy. Liddy is certainly no Libby.

[femrap]

30. Do you think NOW would

endorse a non-feminist? Of course, HRC is a feminist. However, she can't publicize that fact because of the 'feminazi' meaning that many people believe. I am always mentioning the 'F' word to people...they're surprised when I say it's Feminism. lol

[Diamond Dog]

15. Actually, I liked the way you had it originally worded - "Feminism is humanism."

It reminds me of Sartre's "Existentialism is a Humanism". But at any rate, you're right: I don't understand why certain types of feminists have to play 'hardball' to prove they can 'compete' with men. Now, to quantify, I am a man, but is that nevertheless not simply ingraining sexist standards within feminist discourse?

[EFerrari]

17. The problem with feminism = humanism is that humanism

was centered around men. Some feminists don't like that very much.

lol

[libnnc]

19. I don't think that feminism is limited to women

That's why I worded it the way I did originally.

[EFerrari]

22. Right. Feminism isn't but humanism was built around men.

They are not interchangeable. And that's why some feminists see feminism as exceeding humanism even though the term "humanism" leads people to believe the opposite is true.

That's why it's confusing and :crazy:

[femrap]

32. Diamond Dog is the title

of one of David Bowie's songs....and you sir are no David Bowie.

Go read a book by a feminist before you speak on the topic. Try Dworkin...or just some articles to give your attitudes a stretch....

So my being an engineer....is that too hardball for you? Am I too competitive?

[redqueen]

36. It's Diamond Dogs, actually.

[Diamond Dog]

37. FUCK Andrea Dworkin.

She's the very definition of a shrill fembot.

Now I like The Second Sex by de Beauvoir, because she wasn't, well, utterly insane, totally slothful, and unabashedly disgraceful.

[femrap]

34. Diamond Dog is the title

of one of David Bowie's songs....and you sir are no David Bowie.

Go read a book by a feminist before you speak on the topic. Read some articles to give your attitudes a stretch...

So my being an engineer....is that too hardball for you? Am I too competitive?

[Occam Bandage]

21. Feminism is the belief that women are human.

It is built on the fundamental belief that that all humans have intrinsic worth.

If you casually throw around threats of genocide, it is difficult for me to believe that you possess the latter belief. If you do not possess the latter, it is meaningless to say that you possess the former.

[nichomachus]

26. She seems to be working

singlehandedly to destroy the notion some people have that electing more women to office would mean a more sensitive and diplomatic approach to world affairs.

[midnight]

27. I just started reading this post and said finally someone talking

about a subject that has been misunderstood or completely ignored. Then I read additonal posters. It is an attack on the female candidate for president and how she doesn't stack up again. Just wow folks. Why is there so much scritiny of both our candidates race and sex. Our governement engaged in a secret meeting that wants Mexico, Canada and the United States to share police rights, and guess who will pay for those collapsed boundries? Let's now turn to our candidates and ask what they presume they will do with this Nafta, Cafta buisness and today's secret meeting pushing a North American citizenry union.

[libnnc]

28. Oh she stacks up alright

as a saber rattling war monger.

I don't think Nancy Pelosi or Barbara Boxer would say what Hillary said today.

[EFerrari]

29. HIllary herself said she was very comfortable in the dirty kitchen of politics.

So it's a completely fair criticism to point out that you can't hide behind cries of sexism and at the same time, violate long held feminist values.

Either she's comfortable in the fray or she shouldn't be criticized, it can't be both.

[redqueen]

33. Thank you.

[femrap]

35. Every time I hear that

Feminism is Humanism, I see women asking to be seen as human....because many don't see us that way. Women are taught to be viewed as the sex 'object.' Not human.

I'll stick with Feminism.