McAuliffe on MSNBC saying Hillary won Michigan

[Eurobabe]

:eyes: :eyes:

Bragging, what a blowhard.

Memo to Terry: Hillary won because she was the ONLY DEM in MI (besides Dennis K.)

[SunsetDreams]

1. lol pathetic and delusional

[ReverendDeuce]

2. I just saw that.... he's such a goofball...

Almost as zany as Carville.

I am continually impressed by MSNBC's coverage. Even their daytime anchor seems to be "with it" and asking challenging questions.

[SharonRB]

3. If we held our primary over again today (as we should)

I'm pretty sure Obama would win. At our district conventions, Obama (Uncommitted) supporters far outnumbered Hillary supporters.

[Eurobabe]

5. I know, that's what us rational folks believe!!

[sandnsea]

62. Who would get to vote?

That's the problem - do you let everybody vote, even Republicans. Then what about the Independents who would have voted Obama. Do you ban people who voted in the Republican primary, even Democrats. They might have voted Obama otherwise. You have to think Hillary's voters voted for her. I don't think you can recreate the election.

[SharonRB]

73. It's a moot point, since there's not going to be a redo

Our state party screwed us over and there's no good way to correct it.

[sandnsea]

76. I understand that

I had originally thought a do-over would be a good idea, then started thinking about all the people who would be left out because of the way they voted when they were told Michigan would never count. The sad thing is, this wouldn't be a problem if Hillary hadn't created it. Michigan delegates would be seated after the losing candidate conceded and released the delegates to vote for the winner. It makes me sick that she's done this, and even sicker that so many people refuse to understand or even care that they should.

[Debi]

4. But but but Obama had an 'orgainzed' campaign to get people to vote

for 'uncommitted' :crazy:

[stillcool]

59. I love how people characterize ...

Florida and Michigan. The rules were agreed to...what is it...2 years ago now? How much longer will they beat the dead horse? Other than certain supporters, does anyone believe this shit? Alternate Reality Democratic Style.

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Lawmakers in US state Michigan approve moving presidential primary to January despite rules
The Associated Press
Published: August 30, 2007

LANSING, Michigan: Michigan lawmakers have approved moving the state's U.S. presidential nomination contests to January, three weeks earlier than party rules allow, as states continue to challenge the traditional primary election calendar to gain influence in the race.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign the bill passed Thursday that would move the contest to Jan. 15, but approval of the switch is far from certain. A disagreement among state Democratic leaders over whether to hold a traditional ballot vote or a more restricted caucus is complicating final action.

If the date moves up, Michigan Democrats risk losing all their national convention delegates, while Republicans risk losing half.
------------------------------------
Rules in both parties say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for a few hand-picked states that hold elections in January.
--------------------------------
"We understand that we're violating the rules, but it wasn't by choice," Michigan Republican Chairman Saul Anuzis said, noting that state Democrats first proposed moving the date to Jan. 15. "We're going to ask for forgiveness and we think ... we will get forgiveness."
----------------------------------
Even states that do not have favored status are trying to jump toward the front of the line. Florida Democrats decided to move their state's primary to Jan. 29. The national party has said it will strip Florida of its presidential convention delegates unless it decides within the next few weeks to move the vote to a later date.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/31/america/NA-POL-US-Primary-Scramble.php?WT.mc_id=rssap_america

Democrats vow to skip defiant states
Six candidates agree not to campaign in those that break with the party's calendar. Florida and Michigan, this includes you.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2007
The muddled 2008 presidential nomination calendar gained some clarity Saturday -- at least on the Democratic side -- as the party's major candidates agreed not to campaign in any state that defies party rules by voting earlier than allowed.

Their collective action was a blow to Florida and Michigan, two states likely to be important in the general election, which sought to enhance their clout in the nominating process as well.

Front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina in pledging to abide by the calendar set by the Democratic National Committee last summer. The rules allow four states -- Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- to vote in January.

The four "need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money," Edwards said in a written statement. "This tried-and-true nominating system is the only way for voters to judge the field based on the quality of the candidate, not the depth of their war chest."

Hours later, after Obama took the pledge, Clinton's campaign chief issued a statement citing the four states' "unique and special role in the nominating process" and said that the New York senator, too, would "adhere to the DNC-approved calendar."

Three candidates running farther back in the pack -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Sens. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware -- said Friday they would honor the pledge, shortly after the challenge was issued in a letter co-signed by Democratic leaders in the four early states.
--
Florida, the state that proved pivotal in the 2000 presidential election, is again a source of much upheaval. Ignoring the rule that put January off-limits, legislators moved the state's primary up to Jan. 29, pushing Florida past California and other big states voting Feb. 5.

Leaders of the national party responded last month by giving Florida 30 days to reconsider, or have its delegates barred from the August convention in Denver.

"The party had to send a strong message to Florida and the other states," said Donna Brazile, a veteran campaign strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, the party's governing body. "We have a system that is totally out of control."

Despite that warning, Michigan lawmakers moved last week to jump the queue, voting to advance the state's primary to Jan. 15.

Florida Dems defy Dean on primary date
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 06/12/07 07:58 PM
Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), is trapped in a high-stakes game of chicken with party leaders in Florida.

They warned him yesterday not to “disenfranchise” state voters and risk being blamed for a debacle on the scale of the 2000 recount.

The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there.

But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.”

Dean does not, in any case, have the power to waive party rules, a DNC spokeswoman said. The entire committee would have to vote again to do that.
------------------

Carol Fowler, chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said she won’t move that state’s primary, scheduled for Feb. 2, unless the national committee allows her.

“I’m going to do what the DNC tells me to,” Fowler said. “I’m not willing to violate the rules. The penalties are too stiff.”


http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

Posted: August 27, 2007, 6:05 PM ET
DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5.
The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.

"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC's move may have repercussions beyond Florida as other state legislatures consider disregarding the Feb. 5 cutoff. Last week, Michigan's state Senate voted to hold its primary on Jan. 15. The state's House is expected to approve the earlier date as well.

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Published: Monday, September 24, 2007
Florida defies Dems, moves up primary
Associated Press

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. — The Florida Democratic Party is sticking to its primary date — and it printed bumper stickers to prove it.

State party leaders formally announced Sunday their plans to move ahead with a Jan. 29 primary, despite the national leadership's threatened sanctions.

The Democratic National Committee has said it will strip the Sunshine State of its 210 nominating convention delegates if it doesn't abide by the party-set calendar, which forbids most states from holding primary contests before Feb. 5. The exceptions are Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20070924/NEWS02/709240045/-1/

Michigan defies parties, moves up primary date
JAN. 15 DECISION COULD SET OFF STAMPEDE OF STATES
By Stephen Ohlemacher
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/05/2007 01:34:57 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - Michigan officially crashed the early primary party Tuesday, setting up showdowns with both political parties and likely pushing the presidential nomination calendar closer to 2007.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed a bill moving both of Michigan's presidential primaries to Jan. 15. Michigan's move threatens to set off a chain reaction that could force Iowa and New Hampshire to reschedule their contests even earlier than anticipated, perhaps in the first week in January 2008 or even December 2007.
-------------------------------------------
The national parties have tried to impose discipline on the rogue states. On the Republican side, states that schedule contests before Feb. 5 risk losing half their delegates to next summer's convention, though some are banking that whoever wins the GOP nomination will eventually restore the delegates.

Democrats have experienced similar problems, but party officials hoped they had stopped the mad dash to move up by threatening to strip Florida of all its convention delegates for scheduling a primary Jan. 29 and by persuading the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in the party-approved early states.

Michigan, in moving up its primary, faces a similar penalty from the Democratic National Committee.
-----------------------------------------------------

The decision by the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in approved early states renders voting in the rogue states essentially non-binding beauty contests.

But Former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard, co-chairman of Hillary Clinton's Michigan campaign, told the Associated Press on Tuesday that the pledge allows candidates' spouses to campaign in the state, allows the candidates to speak to groups of 200 or fewer and permits fundraising.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6804685?source=rss

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.

Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar... Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.

As it has become clear that the delegate race will be very close, politicians in the Democratic party are discussing the implications of the DNC pledge, and whether it would be wise to seat the delegates after all, rather than risk offending these important states that could be influential in the November election.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

Kucinich Files Affidavit To Remove Name From Michigan's Primary Shortly Before Deadline

October 10, 2007 8:19 a.m. EST
Ayinde O. Chase - AHN Staff
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008781843
Dover, NH (AHN) - The Kucinich for President campaign Tuesday afternoon officially requested that Kucinich's name be withdrawn from the Michigan Democratic primary ballot. The affidavit came by way of to the Michigan Secretary of State's office.

The Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidates National Campaign manager Mike Klein said in the statement, "We signed a public pledge recently, promising to stand with New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and the DNC-approved 'early window', and the action we are taking today protects New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary status, and Nevada's early caucus."

The statement continued: "We support the grassroots nature of the New Hampshire, small-state primary, and we support the diversity efforts that Chairman Dean and the DNC instituted last year, when they added Nevada and South Carolina to the window in January 2008. We are obviously committed to New Hampshire's historic role." Klein who actually recently moved to Dover said, "We will continue to adhere to the DNC-approved primary schedule."

Governor Granholm and other Michigan Democratic leaders have openly criticized the decision by several presidential candidates to keep their names off the state primary ballot.

The Michigan lawmakers are taken back by Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John Edwards and Bill Richardson's decision to withdraw their names from the January 15th ballot.

The only ones who remain on Michigan's primary ballot are Hillary Clinton, Mike Gravel and Chris Todd.
-----------------------------
The DNC has threatened to punish states that break tradition and the rules by challenging Iowa and New Hampshire as first to pic. The committee has threatened to unseat the delegates of states that go ahead defy the primary rules set by the party

[powergirl]

6. That means I came in 2nd place in Michigan

They keep beating that drum and no one is buying it.

[SoCalDem]

7. Yay.. the Patriots beat the jv football team at Middletown Jr High

:rofl:

[billyoc]

8. He was on DeadIntern this morning saying that Obams and Edwards ran an uncommitted campaign

against her and she still won! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Eurobabe]

12. Terry is one delusional fuckwad.

:rofl:

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. There should have been a revote. Clinton and the DNC agreed on a plan. n/t

[truebrit71]

10. McAuliffe is a Grade-A moran...

...

[grantcart]

11. he also said that they won Texas and Nevada

[Eurobabe]

16. I heard that TOO! Oh, and Obama outspent us in TX, NV, MI

:crazy:

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Don't go spouting off about the "popular will" in Denver

if you don't think it counts for anything in Texas and Nevada.

[Justitia]

38. Huh? This is a race for DELEGATES, state-by-state. -eom

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. This is a race for the Democratic nomination

The winner is whoever gets a majority of delegates at the National Convention to back him or her. I just edited my post because we agreed down below.

[Justitia]

46. Whose votes were overturned in TX? That's a bullshit claim. Obama won the most delegates.

He who wins the most delegates, wins the nomination - period.

Don't make specious charges about "overturning" votes you can't back up.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. You do realize that only people who had already voted in the Texas Primary

were allowed to participate in the Texas Caucus, don't you? That means that all the voters voted once and then some of them had the time to return and caucus. Obama did not get a single new voter to support him at the caucus. When everyone's votes were counted the first time Clinton won.

I never said it wasn't legitimate. Those were the rules. Super Delegates are part of the rules also.

[Justitia]

50. Hell yes I realize it, I'm a TX Delegate. That's the way our state works. Clinton LOVED it in 90s

when he absolutely swept our state. It's not like they didn't know how the system worked, they gamed it like pros - TWICE before.

Our delegates are awarded in fractions of a total. The ballot portion is only a fraction. The caucuses complete the fraction. That's the law in TX.
The Clintons have a helluva lot of nerve criticizing it this go round, because they LOST the lead.

[redqueen]

60. Isn't it 2/3 of delegates awarded based on primary...

1/3 based on caucuses?

I thought that's how it worked, anyway.

[Justitia]

67. Yes, 2/3 ballot, 1/3 caucus. -eom

[Tom Rinaldo]

70. I agree that the rules were there for both sides to play by, and Obama did better at them. n/t

[grantcart]

55. 'popular will' lol

The popular will of the democrats in Nevada, Texas and 11 other states is that they prefer to determine the composition of their state delegations by means of caucus or in the case of Texas both. There are many reasons for this but they are irrelvent because the 'popular will' of democrats in those states has determined that is the method they want.


Having established a system of rules to pick the delegates Obama has won those states.


Now you want to reinterpret what the 'popular will' of the democrats of these states are after Hillary has lost.


The 13 caucus states Obama won, most by landslides, was done so by following the rules dictated by the 'popular will'


Its not going to be a discussion about anything in Denver because Hillary's 'popular will' like her campaign finances is collapsing, and once the full impact of her warmongering stance on Iran is fully absorbed it will fall further;

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. I don't dispute that Obama won those according to the rules

The time to change rules is before contests, not during them.

[Diamond Dog]

13. "I voted FOR the scheduled elections before I voted AGAINST it."

[Eurobabe]

20. LOL

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

14. LOL! That's hilarious. What an incompetent idiot he is.

Howard Dean has been running rings around McAuliffe's tenure.

Go, Howard! :yourock:

[demmiblue]

15. She wasn't the only dem besides Kucinich...

but I get your point!

[Eurobabe]

who else then?

:shrug:

[SharonRB]

22. Dodd

and, if you want to count him, Gravel.

[Eurobabe]

23. I did not know that

I thought only Hillary and DK were on the ballot. :hi:

[SharonRB]

32. Yup

Only Barack, Edwards, Richardson and Biden got their names off. They signed a pledge and felt taking their names off was part of it because they promised not to campaign in Michigan.

Kooch tried to get his name off, but screwed up the paperwork somehow. He campaigned the weekend before the primary.

Hillary, Dodd and Gravel left their names on, but didn't campaign. However, Hillary did hold a private fundraiser. If that's not campaigning, I don't know what is.

[rinsd]

47. Actually the pledge specifically allowed fundraising.

Here's the pledge.

Four State Pledge Letter 2008

Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina

August 31, 2007


WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a
2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic
diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and
the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the
nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/08/2008_campaign_calendar_the_lat_1.html

[SharonRB]

72. Thanks for the clarification.

It sure sounds to me, though, that Barack, Edwards and Biden were correct in removing their names: "...pledge I shall not campaign or participate...

Being on the ballot is participating, as far as I'm concerned.

[rinsd]

77. They were all on the ballot for FL.

The MI ballot thing was a political stunt cooked up by Richardson and bandwagoned by the other 3. Though circumstances at the time saw Obama kind of floundering in the IA polls with Richardson gaining some ground.

If you want to talk participation and campaigning

Here is Obama surrogates', the Conyers, radio ad launched advocating Obama supporters to vote uncommitted (ya know after they realized how stupid it was to take his name off the ballot)

This is the script of the John and Monica Conyers radio ad, which will be broadcast on Detroit-area stations. Monica Conyers is president pro-tem of the Detroit City Council.

MALE: THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS CONFUSING. I WANT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA BUT OBAMA'S NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

FEMALE: THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT BALLOT I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

MALE: WELL, THESE FOLKS CAN HELP US. EXCUSE ME, CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

FEMALE: HOW CAN WE VOTE FOR OBAMA ON TUESDAY?

Rep. Conyers: YOU CAN'T. YOU CANNOT EVEN WRITE IN OBAMA'S NAME. IF YOU DO YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT BECAUSE OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN CHOSE NOT TO PLACE HIS NAME ON THE MICHIGAN BALLOT SO AS NOT TO VIOLATE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. BUT YOU CAN VOTE UNCOMMITTED

Councilwoman Conyers: IF AT LEAST 15% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE UNCOMMITTED, THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MUST SEND THAT PERCENTAGE OF DELEGATES TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION UNCOMMITTED.

Rep. Conyers: MY WIFE AND I ARE VOTING UNCOMMITTED. WE WILL WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO MAKE SURE THAT UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES GO TO THAT CONVENTION TRULY UNCOMMITTED SO THAT OBAMA CAN COMPETE FOR THEIR VOTE.

MALE: THANK YOU CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS. I WILL JOIN YOU AND VOTE UNCOMMITTED ON TUESDAY.

FEMALE: ME TOO - AT LEAST MY VOTE WON'T BE WASTED

Councilwoman Conyers: THIS TRUTH IN POLITICS MESSAGE WAS PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF MONICA CONYERS

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html

She held a victory rally in FL. Obama ran TV ads as part of a national ad buy.

Let me put it this way, neither Clinton nor Obama were "saints" at the time of those elections. I am unhappy with Hillary's current manner to seat the delegates (vs. just the nominee seating them or spkitting them since it was not a real election)

[TahitiNut]

85. Exactly.

All the spin and bullshit can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. "Participate" means name on the ballot - where the state ALLOWS removal of the name. Michigan accommodated name removal. Florida didn't. Simple.

[MonkeyFunk]

63. Obama held fundraisers in Florida, too

[Justitia]

17. Yeah, he also said they won TX. I guess "won" means "got LESS delegates"

than the other guy.

Only in Team Clinton World.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. So if Clinton wins the nomination in Denver

because playing by the DNC rules she ends up with more delegates there than Obama does, you are cool with that, right?

[Justitia]

41. Yup - He who wins the most delegates, wins the nomination. -eom

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. OK, we agree. Super Delegates won't give this to Clinton

without some pretty compelling reasons to do so. The undecideds are not in her pocket.

[eleny]

18. Cottage cheese on a monitor is not a pretty sight

[MattBaggins]

24. Cottage chees

on anything is not a pretty sight.

Blech...

[babylonsister]

19. That whole interview was ridiculous. He failed to answer the question

about big dawg's memory lapse and she failed to push him on it, and it went downhill from there. What a tool, he's spinning like crazy/mad!

[Eurobabe]

21. He makes me dizzy

Did he used to sell used cars with Mitt Romney? :rofl:

[babylonsister]

33. Do you know what's so outrageous?

Here they are, moaning and groaning about disenfranchising FL and MI voters, yet they discount all of the voters in the smaller states that didn't vote for Clinton as if they don't matter. :crazy:

I know they're trying to, but ya can't have it both ways.

[Justitia]

44. Yup & last I checked TX is pretty big & Team Clinton threatened to SUE us!

Trust me, that particular tactic did not win any friends in the Lone Star State.

[AlCzervik]

26. After seeing him in "So goes the nation" i have 2 words for him and they aren't "Happy motoring".

[newmajority]

27. After Hillary concedes, I never want to see Terry McUseless on TV again.

He'll probably end up on FAUX Noize, but I don't watch that fucking shit, so that would be acceptable, I guess.

[blm]

86. Terry McAuliffe should be in jail for DOING NOTHING for the 4yrs he watched RNC

gain control of every level of the election process where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

Hillary2008 was their goal since 2000.

[lisa58]

28. he's an ass

[Bigleaf]

29. Clinton Campagn: Operation Desperation

[Angela Shelley]

39. Hopefully the operation is over soon.

:-)

[Cassandra]

31. He threw in FL as well...

this morning on Morning Joe-ker.

[jenmito]

34. He also said a 5-10 point victory tonight would be a "blow out."

:eyes:

[City Lights]

56. Ya sure. 5-10 points, down from a 20+ point lead is a blow-out.

Whatev, Terry. :+

[jenmito]

61. Yup. He's the most enthusiastic liar in their campaign.

:eyes:

[crankychatter]

35. how can fully grown people continue with this insipid tripe

ACCEPT OUR COMMUNIST ELECTION OR WE WILL BURY YOU

clinton needs a kruschev shoe

[crankychatter]

36. btw k/r

.

[Windy]

37. Current polls taken here in Michigan show lead to OBAMA

HRC would lose a re-vote here!

[Medusa]

40. Rendell tried that same shit on MTP

Russert called him on it. I think that the Clintonistas hope and pray that people have short memories or that the masses don't realize that she was the only candidate on the ballot in Michigan so they try to sneak it (and Florida) in there.

[samsingh]

42. that's a republican type approach in not giving the proper context

[Oreo]

49. This absolutely kills Clinton's Michigan complaint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmUVr_Qt2Wg

[suston96]

51. Only Dem? I thought Obama voters were told to select "uncommitted" by John Conyers .....

....which got 238,168 votes.

Hillary got 328,309. So, Hillary won Michigan.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/MI.html

[Eurobabe]

57. I'm not even going to go there with you.

:hi:

[SharonRB]

74. Not on a level playing field, she didn't

A lot of people didn't bother to vote because they felt their votes wouldn't count. Others voted in the Republican primary (which I think was a bad move) because they felt their votes wouldn't count. No matter how you slice it, it wasn't a valid test.

[suston96]

79. It was an election and it better be counted......The Democrats will suffer seriously...

... if the voting rights party rejects the voting rights of 2 million Democrats, includes Florida, because of the political stupidity of Democratic party hacks.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. She is the only candidate who beat Kucinich in a one-on-one match up

[otohara]

53. He Could Easily Work For A Republican Campaign

wouldn't miss a beat!

[shadowknows69]

54. Can't Dr. Dean muzzle that rabid dog

Or just do us a favor and put him down.

[rox63]

58. McAwful is delusional

:crazy:

[Mezzo]

64. she did.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

65. Nobody forced Obama to take his name off the ballot.

[Diamond Dog]

66. No, but he agreed to it in accordance with the DNC rules.

Unlike The Beast, going forward to seek whom she may devour.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

69. The Beast?

Show me the rule that says, "You must remove your name from the ballot."

[SharonRB]

78. See this post upthread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5621410&mesg_id=5621819

It can easily be interpreted to mean they should take their names off. They agreed not to participate and being on the ballot is certainly participation.

[noonwitch]

71. She did win Michigan-whether to count it or not is the issue

I'm not getting into that argument, but she did win Michigan.

[Texas Hill Country]

75. ummm... she did... everyone knew obama and edwards = undeclared, and yet she beat both combined.

[Cooley Hurd]

83. .

:rofl:

:rofl:

Umm, wait, you're actually SERIOUS?:o

[cascadiance]

84. And I guess she "beat" all of those Dems that crossed over to vote for Romney...

... who WOULD have voted in the Dem primary HAD it had other candidates besides her on the ballot.

This election should be totally invalidated. It really doesn't serve any purpose except for the manipulation that Hillary's campaign is trying to use it for.

I think it was Thom Hartmann that was pointing out that Florida and Michigan were the only states amongst the Democratic primaries that didn't show a substantial increase in voter participation in them, when comparing the shifts it had from the previous presidential primary and comparing the other states with past primaries. That statistically would show that the primary "not counting" probably kept a lot of voters away from the polls, which should really invalidate the results.

[Skidmore]

80. Every once in a while, Clinton surrogates throw in Texas on her

win list too. Not a single media person corrects them on these blatant lies.

[robertpaulsen]

81. And Poland! DON'T FORGET POLAND!

Honestly, that's what they're starting to sound like.

:eyes:

[Cooley Hurd]

82. "If Obama can't win after outspending us 3 to 1..."

Terry "Net Dem losses during the entire time of his chairmanship" McAuliffe, the ONLY way you could WIN Michigan is by being the ONLY name on the ballot.

Christ - either delusional or a liar...:eyes:

[brooklyndemo]

87. We can't call what happened in Michigan an "election"

It is unfair to Obama, since he did not campaign there. Clinton won because there was no race, if you think about it.