Howard Dean or The Clintons? Who Should Chair the Democratic Party?

[David Zephyr]

Lanny Davis, a Clinton operative, has now joined the Clintons' other operatives like James Carville and Harold Ford, Jr. in calling for Howard Dean to resign.

Seeing as to how Bill Clinton himself tried to get Wes Clark to challenge Howard Dean at the last moment for the Chairmanship of the Democratic National Party, I think that it is obvious that the Clintons despise Howard Dean.

I, for one, am grateful to Governor Howard Dean for bravely challenging the status quo and for his 50-State Strategy which won back the Senate and the House of Representatives in 2006.

I, for one, am grateful for how Howard Dean has led our party to the largest voter registration in the nation's history.

I, for one, am grateful that Howard Dean has made fund raising at the grass roots the keystone to our Party's successes.

And, yes, I am grateful to have a Chair of the National Democratic Party who opposed the god damned war in Iraq BEFORE it ever began.

And, while I am at it, if there was a particular family who would be titular in our party, it would be the Kennedys, not the Clintons.

So since the Clintons are intent on driving Howard Dean from his Chairmanship and are relentless in their calls for him to resign, I ask the following:

Who makes a better head of our party: Howard Dean or the Clintons?

[tekisui]

1. How many battles do they want to lose?

[last1standing]

2. The DLC sees a real threat in Howard Dean. They'll stop at nothing to destroy him.

n/t

[billyoc]

24. Yes, and I see a real threat in the DLC. I'll stop at nothing to destroy them. nt

[BlooInBloo]

3. Link for people...

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/hillary_supporter_lanny_davis.php

Clinton supporters are against Democrats.

[mrgorth]

57. If they want open war within the party

they can have it. I've got Dean's back NO MATTER WHAT!

[dsc]

4. He did a lot of good

but he really did mess up the florida and michigan mess. We should have done exactly what the GOP did. Take away half.

[tularetom]

6. He didn't mess anything up - they tried to play chicken

and he didn't back down. They knew the rules and tried to game the system. He has been consistent all the way through.

[dsc]

10. no he upped the penalty

the penalty was supposed to be half but he doubled it.

[madfloridian]

17. The rules committee upped it....it was well within the rules. FL knew it.

They had 30 days to get their delegates back, they did not try.

[dsc]

18. If he had told them not to, they wouldn't have

It was a stupid game of chicken for which they share responsibility but the final product is a totally disenfranchised electorate that had no fault in the disenfranchisement.

[Pastiche423]

19. The only stupidity going on

was done by the Dem "leaders" in Florida. Everyone voted on the rules long before the campaigns began in earnest. If they din't want to be penalized, they should not have voted for the rules.

So don't you dare try and push any crap onto Howard Dean. Actually, I'm rather surprised at you for saying what you did.

Shame on you.

[dsc]

23. they deserved the penalty they were told they would get

not a doubled one.

[Pastiche423]

29. I disagree

They broke the rules. They deserve the penalty.

You're a teacher. Would you allow your students to break the rules after they've voted on them? Would you give them a do over because they cried and whimpered, "Not fair"?

[dsc]

30. I wouldn't arbitraily double the penalty

I can't tell a student that if s/he is tardy to my class s/he gets a half hour detention and then turn around and give him/her an hour.

[PassingFair]

52. Both states KNEW EXACTLY what the penalty was.

It's not like it was an "arbitrary" surprise.

Hell, the candidates themselves PLEDGED NOT TO
PARTICIPATE in those primaries!

[madfloridian]

21. FL and MI deliberately broke the rules and disrupted the primary process.

I am amazed at how many think that is ok.

[dsc]

22. I don't think it is OK

but say I had your daughter in my class and said "if you cheat on a test, you fail the test and I can do more if I feel like". Your daughter cheats on a test I and fail her for the class. That is what happened here. There was one predetermined penalty that got arbitratilly doubled.

[madfloridian]

25. Not arbitrary...FL went before the committee and did not tell the truth.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1935

The committee had the facts, and they gave the penalty. FL could have kept their delegates if they addressed the problems within 30 days.
They chose to be arrogant about it.

[KittyWampus]

50. look you don't know what you're talking-DEAN GAVE THEM A CHANCE TO GET BACK IN

Florida and Michigan had a chance to get back in the game and they refused.

[MaineDem]

55. Not true at all

The Chair doesn't carry that sort of influence.

I'm so afraid we bandy about the term Disenfranchise way too easily. It's too serious a concept to use when it really doesn't apply.

[lojasmo]

49. Dean didn't do that

The committee did.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. Governor, Doctor Howard Dean

[LSparkle]

7. Dr. Dean, from the DEMOCRATIC wing of the Democratic Party!

The Clintons, from the DLC Repug-lite wing of the Democatic Party.

God bless Howard Dean!

[speedoo]

8. Anything Lanny Davis and Carvile are for, I'm against.

That includes getting Howard Dean to resign and nominating Hillary.

[Bryan]

9. Disregarding issues of personality,

...it seems apparent that the Dean 50-state model is paying more dividends than the DLC targeted-states model, at least at this point in time, so Dean should keep control of the DNC.

[DogPoundPup]

11. I think this sums it up nicely.........

[mmonk]

12. 50 state strategy DEAN.

[QC]

31. That's 48 now. n/t

[TexasObserver]

13. The Clintons were and are a disaster for the Party.

It'a always all about them. That's why McAwful is the worst DNC chair we've had in decades. Chuck Manatt. They lost us seats and set us up for the problems of 2000 and 2002. Paul Kirk. Both better chairs.

The sooner the name Clinton is no longer identified with the party, the sooner we are BACK.

[EFerrari]

35. It's funny how people bought the spin that the DLC was good for the party

when in fact they were good for the Clintons and their cronies and horrible for us.

[Raine]

14. The Democratic VOTERS wanted Dean

he's the biggest threat there could be to the Clinton's power so they want him out.

[David Zephyr]

15. 96% for Dean and 4% for the Clintons. Kick this up. Hopefully Howard might see it.

Kick it up for Howard. I like our boss.

[Cleita]

16. So the DLC operatives are trying to take over the DNC,

it would appear.

[newmajority]

20. Without Howard Dean, there would be no Democratic Party today.

He was the first one to show any kind of leadership in this party this decade. Barack Obama was the second. I hope President Obama asks Dr. Dean to stay on as DNC chair, and I hope he accepts.

[cynatnite]

26. I've always supported the Clintons, but Howard Dean has proven himself...

as Chair.

I was glad to see him get it and he's continued to do a fantastic job from the beginning.

Bill Clinton was a skeptic of Dean's 50 State Strategy and after a meeting with Howard, he became a believer.

Rock on, Howard!

[New Dawn]

27. DLC = GOP

K&R

[Rowdyboy]

28. Whoever is the nominee will select the DNC chairperson.....Dean could be reappointed

but thats unlikely. Too bad.

[MaineDem]

43. You're right - our Democratic President will probably nominate the new Chair

I'm assuming we will win.

I haven't heard any names being bandied about, though. Not even whispers.

I have heard that Dean doesn't want the job again. Rumor only.

[annie1]

32. Howard Dean thinks the race should end before 9 states have voted...

so f him.

[smiley_glad_hands]

39. She can't win. lol

[annie1]

41. based on projected races in the last 9 states, but those may not hold...

she can overcome him in the pop. vote. and if she doesn't, she doesn't, but millions more people have left to vote.

[KittyWampus]

51. Fuck anyone who doesn't understand that Clinton lost and is draining resources from November

[EFerrari]

33. Kick.

[JI7]

34. they want him replaced with someone who gives her Florida and Michigan delegates

that's what this is about.

[madrchsod]

36. 150-9?

where are all the hillary supporters?

[cstanleytech]

37. I voted dean however

I wish there had been a John Edwards option, I like him more and it made me sad that he had to pull out of the race for president so soon.

[JNelson6563]

38. Howard Dean will fuck your shit up.

As the Rude One so eloquently put it...twice!

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2004/01/howard-dean-will-fuck-your-shit-up.html

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2005/06/howard-dean-will-fuck-your-shit-up.html

I'll take Dean any day, over anybody.

Julie

[PassingFair]

54. Hey, I have that printed out and in my Dean file!

Ran across it the other day when I was looking for
something.

:hi:

[JNelson6563]

58. An excellent addition to any collection.

Certrainly a must-have for any self-respecting Deaniac. :toast: :hi:

Cheers,
Julie

[David Zephyr]

40. Dean: 169. Clintons: 10 The DU is Dean Country.

Looks like the DU favors Howard Dean.

[EFerrari]

42. So, what are we going to do about it?

Because the pressure on / against Dean is only going to get worse heading into the convention. All I can think of is to try to raise some $ in donations of #20.08.

Is there some other way we could show support for Howard?

[MaineDem]

44. The DNC will vote for the Chair in January

The new DNC will be seated after the convention. Find out who the new members are in your state and lobby them.

[EFerrari]

47. I'm talking about the wackos like Lanny Davis call for him to resign

and other tricks coming out of the Clinton campaign.

[Hippo_Tron]

45. Oye, this is way too overdramatic

Regardless of whether Clinton or Obama wins in 2008, Dean won't be sticking around. The incumbent President becomes the leader of the party and party chairman becomes a puppet who takes orders from the White House Political Director. Dean won't stick around for that job and he will be replaced either by Clinton or Obama.

This isn't a question of would you rather Howard Dean or Harold Ford running the party it's a question of whether you would rather have Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama running the part. Whether or not we continue the 50 state strategy and such will be determined by the new President.

BTW, Mark Penn will not be Hillary Clinton's White House Political Director. He's too cheap to work on a government salary.

[Jersey Devil]

46. Last time the Clintons controlled the DNC with McAuliffe we lost Congress

for a dozen years.

[lojasmo]

48. I want to GROW the party. Howard Dean speaks for me.

We lost seats in BOTH houses of congress during EVERY election when Bill was chief. Screw that.

[QC]

56. No, we picked up House seats in 1998.

Newtie resigned in response to that historic loss--the first time since the 1820s that the opposition party lost in a second term off year election.

And growing the party by excluding two of the largest states--about 10% of American voters--is a bizarre strategy.

I used to be a big Howard Dean fan and was thrilled when he was made chairman, but now I see him as Katherine Harris with a penis.

[lojasmo]

59. Conceded, but we lost in aggregate.

The party wouldn't be where it is without the 50 state strategy.

Think about Il-14

I don't want the Clintons anywhere near the helm. Their boy Terry screwed things up royally.

[davidpdx]

53. I think those that want to oust Dean are looking to put Bill in his chair

Or better yet, a Clinton puppet. I hope it doesn't happen.